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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 65

Forum Index > Closed
9040 CommentsPost a Reply
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
shadowy
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Bulgaria305 Posts
August 25 2011 04:44 GMT
#1281
I must've been spending too much time starcrafting ..every change makes perfect sense to me.

I shall not pay for next GSL season (yeah, right)
[Fear the leather Gracket!] // ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ // Liquid'Hero hwaiting!
Qxz
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada189 Posts
August 25 2011 04:44 GMT
#1282
Canceling more than one of the same structure at the same time as Zerg will add all Drones to the selection.

Yes! This was so unintuitive, for example when performing a double-extractor trick. Will be much easier now.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
August 25 2011 04:44 GMT
#1283
On August 25 2011 13:38 Pirat6662001 wrote:
Why did they increased racks build time? Watching GSL i have not seen any issue at high levels with early 2 racks or mass racks. and 1/1/1 is solved by other buffs

5 second delay to everything might reduce Terran dominance in Korea to some extent. About time they had a decent nerf, they've been dominating pretty much since release with a few hiccups.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
HuggyBear
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia377 Posts
August 25 2011 04:45 GMT
#1284
Amazing patch even for a random player.

Favorite units get buffed and the unstable hellion becomes a little more bearable
"Sleeping with SeLeCT is Standard. Once you've slept with Day9 everything else is just ..." - CatZ
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
August 25 2011 04:45 GMT
#1285
On August 25 2011 13:42 Pirat6662001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 13:39 HinagikUx wrote:
On August 25 2011 13:23 Soulish wrote:
On August 25 2011 13:18 Kluey wrote:
The warp prism change isn't really that great. It's like what they did with the Ghost. They just tweak it a little bit and people go crazy and try experimenting with it. 60 extra shield won't save you from viking fire or it won't make it invincible.

You realize that warp prisms are now the most tank dropships in the game now right? A lot of stuff like Vikings already did reduced damage to prisms because it was light attribute


yeah, and toss has the worst units to drop. no BFH, 8 lings, marine marauder, hell even 4 roaches with burrow is probably more cost effective than anything toss can drop..

WOW, have u never been droped with DTs? or with HT with storm on your mineral line? IMHO best mid-late game units to drop by far


Late game we can give you, but Zerg and Terran drop much better than us at mid/early game.

DTs are garbage once revealed+countered. 2 MTs at an expo and you're done.

HTs are great, but guess what? Thats an expensive drop, and you better not lose it.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
August 25 2011 04:45 GMT
#1286
On August 25 2011 13:39 SetStndbySmn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 13:09 _Search_ wrote:
Now that I've had a good think here's my reaction to 1.4:

(Rank 1 Master Terran perspective)


General
Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1.

Defender's advantage!! Very necessary. This will stop Toss from saccing a unit up a ramp to warp stuff in past static defense.


PROTOSS
Immortal
Attack range increased from 5 to 6.

I first suggested this exact change a year ago. I knew back then that immortals were simply not effective enough for their cost, even if I was in gold league.


Mothership
Acceleration increased from 0.3 to 1.375.
The Mothership’s Cloaking Field no longer cloaks all units instantaneously, but rather adds units to the cloak field over time (maximum of 25 per second). This should alleviate “Mothership Lag” issue when a Mothership comes online.

I hope this promotes more Mothership play. It's such an interesting unit. At the same time though, Protoss late game definitely did NOT need any help. Colossus nerf please.


Stalker
Blink research time increased from 110 to 140.

This is great because blink really should be a late game ability and not conducive to a timing attack. Terran is far too vulnerable to blink Stalkers on maps like Tal'Darim, though this change will likely have greater effect in the other matchups.


Warp Prism
Shields increased from 40 to 100.

Not a particular fan of this one, mainly because Warp Prisms are such a powerful unit already, especially for such a cheap cost (no gas?!?!). The only reason tosses don't use them is because they're afraid of losing them, which speaks more to the lack of maturity in toss play than imbalance because, considering what the unit does, it's DEFINITELY worth the money.


TERRAN
Barracks
Build time increased from 60 to 65.

lolwut? Is this to help with 2 rax? I don't know how much effect it will have on that, but Terran has the hardest time producing units in the early game, especially against toss, and this will make Terran far too vulnerable to early pressure.

I once suggested this very change, but coupled it with a marine time decrease and Orbital Command time decrease (5 secs). Terran is simply far too vulnerable in the early game to anything that can get around a bunker. Basically what this is doing is making any Terran non-bio build auto-lose to early pressure.

Can this nerf not be accompanied by a reactor core build time buff? The Terran macro game already suffers as it is, without double-punishing Terrans for trying to tech.


Hellion
Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5.

Defense against hellions was already getting figured out. This nerf is totally unnecessary. Zergs have long learned to defend against them, Protosses have no fear of them and Terrans were learning to cope. 19 damage is still enough to 2-shot lings, just not workers until +2 mech weapons. Even worse, now zealots and marines are even MORE effective against hellions, when hellions should totally own both. This is the type of nerf that will remove the unit from the game, just like reapers, and Blizzard needs to be making Terran units less specialized and more cohesive, not the opposite.

Either remove Pre-igniter altogether and give hellions a +3 damage buff (11 +6 v light) or raise the hellion rate of fire and add a pre-attack pause, like in the alpha, like Thors currently have. This will force hellions to stay stationary before they fire, which will make hellion raids less effective, but allow them to gel more easily into a greater army mix.

Really Blizzard should be changing the Hellion to make it more effective in a general army and less effective in a raid. A straight-up nerf like this one will only remove it from the game, which is tragic, since the Hellion had essentially just entered the game.



Raven
Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.

FINALLY!!!! No more vikings escaping Seeker Missile scot-free! Options in the imba Brood Lord/Corruptor/Infestor v. Viking/Marine wars! And, most importantly, AOE FOR TERRANS!! (besides tanks, which were hardly the equivalent of psi storm, colossi, carriers and fungal growth, if not also banelings (no one's ever perfected a "tank bust"))

ZERG
Infestor
Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored).

This won't effect PvZ too greatly, unless units recharge shields while under FG (if they do then it's a big nerf as Zealots and Stalkers will each require an extra FG), but this is a welcome nerf in the Brood Lord/Corruptor/Infestor v. Viking marine match. Marines with combat shields and adequate medivacs will mostly survive 2 fungals and Vikings will require 4 FGs instead of 3 to die.

We all knew FG was too powerful. This nerf is well-deserved.


Overseer
Morph cost decreased from 50/100 to 50/50.
Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125.

Still trying to help Zergs against cloaked units. This buff is unnecessary. Spore Crawler buff was enough.

Ultralisk
Build time decreased from 70 to 55.

Interesting, but I think Ultras were fine. It's not like Zerg was ever hampered by unit build times anyways. They can mass anything they have the money and larva for. I feel this is Blizzard's desire to bring an underused unit into the game, but build time is not the way to do it. They just need to let Ultra pathing be uninhibited by lings.


do you... do you realize carriers arn't aoe? things like this make people think you really only have a good understanding of your own race, and your opinion is meaningless bias.

Stop responding to that guy.
He's got horrible knowledge of the game and was obviously desperately craving attention with his bolded text.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 25 2011 04:45 GMT
#1287
lol apm tryhards got owned
lord_nibbler
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany591 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 04:49:00
August 25 2011 04:46 GMT
#1288
If a unit provides power, that power is temporarily transferred to a player using Neural Parasite.

What does this mean?
Can you use Storm now if you take over an HT for example? Or maybe they only mean passive abilities like detection or heal?
tyrless
Profile Joined July 2010
United States485 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 04:46:24
August 25 2011 04:46 GMT
#1289
On August 25 2011 13:09 _Search_ wrote:

Hellion
Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5.

Defense against hellions was already getting figured out. This nerf is totally unnecessary. Zergs have long learned to defend against them, Protosses have no fear of them and Terrans were learning to cope. 19 damage is still enough to 2-shot lings, just not workers until +2 mech weapons. Even worse, now zealots and marines are even MORE effective against hellions, when hellions should totally own both. This is the type of nerf that will remove the unit from the game, just like reapers, and Blizzard needs to be making Terran units less specialized and more cohesive, not the opposite.

Either remove Pre-igniter altogether and give hellions a +3 damage buff (11 +6 v light) or raise the hellion rate of fire and add a pre-attack pause, like in the alpha, like Thors currently have. This will force hellions to stay stationary before they fire, which will make hellion raids less effective, but allow them to gel more easily into a greater army mix.

Really Blizzard should be changing the Hellion to make it more effective in a general army and less effective in a raid. A straight-up nerf like this one will only remove it from the game, which is tragic, since the Hellion had essentially just entered the game.



This is a GREAT point because it addresses a big flaw in Blizzard's design process with SC2 so far.
McKTenor13
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1383 Posts
August 25 2011 04:46 GMT
#1290
Not gonna lie I LOVE these patch changes. And there are plenty of them to boot. Lets see if all of them go through
If you can chill. chill. - Liquid'Tyler
EnderCraft
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 04:48:18
August 25 2011 04:46 GMT
#1291
On August 25 2011 13:42 On_Slaught wrote:
The defense of BFH makes no sense to me.

Just because it hasn't been around a long time doesn't mean it wasn't blatantly broken. Considering the cost of a hellion, how fast they are, the AOE aspect of their attacks and how fast you can get the upgrade weighed against the fact they could 2shot workers made them complete game-changer in a way no other unit in the game can compete with considering the above factors.

The nerf was absolutely necessary for game balance. People usually drop 4 hellions anyways so you'll still 1shot lines most of the time anyways.

BFH were getting out of hand... Doesn't matter if you dropped them 5 times; one drop is bound to decimate your opponents mineral line and cripple them for the rest of the game. Now they're actually a lot more manageable Don't disagree with any of the changes for the most part.

However, WTF no bunker change???
SC:BW has a higher skill ceiling than SC2? SC 64 is where it's at brah.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
August 25 2011 04:46 GMT
#1292
On August 25 2011 13:46 lord_nibbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
If a unit provides power, that power is temporarily transferred to a player using Neural Parasite.

What does this mean?
Can you use Storm now if you take over an HT for example?


It's talking about warp prisms.
enemy2010
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany1972 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 04:47:38
August 25 2011 04:46 GMT
#1293
Wow, immortal range change, BFH damage change, mothership speed change....

Huge patch, fortunately not everything will appear in the real patch
But these are quite some heavy changes. I wonder which ones really affects the game

ALSO: Please, blizzard, make a PTR for europe
1on1 auf azze no he no flash no awp only holztor. | Ja, da meint der ich hätt' abgeschmatzt, aber dat is Quatsch, verstehste?
Pirat6662001
Profile Joined January 2011
Russian Federation949 Posts
August 25 2011 04:46 GMT
#1294
On August 25 2011 13:44 Scarecrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 13:38 Pirat6662001 wrote:
Why did they increased racks build time? Watching GSL i have not seen any issue at high levels with early 2 racks or mass racks. and 1/1/1 is solved by other buffs

5 second delay to everything might reduce Terran dominance in Korea to some extent. About time they had a decent nerf, they've been dominating pretty much since release with a few hiccups.

Thats true, but the super early game is already so fragile (early is 3-7 minutes), thing like 6 pool on maps with hard to wall off places and proxy gates become stronger cause u have a big delay in marine production+ a lot of early terran pressure is now now possible (i really dont want it to become a turtle race again, cause then i'll have to switch)
So.. this Earth, nice planet you might say- WRONG!!
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
August 25 2011 04:46 GMT
#1295
Great patch, although I think the fungal nerf really wasn't necessary, or could've been different (slowing instead of stopping). It's quite a huge nerf too, late game zerg will be even more ridiculous in ZvP. I wonder how much it'll affect ZvZ, it might make zerglings, banelings and mutas more powerful.

The overseer change is nice, I might actually use them to scout instead of overlord speed in some situations.
themikeman
Profile Joined July 2011
United States8 Posts
August 25 2011 04:46 GMT
#1296
A good patch but the hellion nerf might mean the end of mech tvt ]:
There isn't a man in history that's led a life of leisure that has been worth remembering.
sJonny
Profile Joined June 2011
United States3 Posts
August 25 2011 04:47 GMT
#1297
Overseer was nerfed because of NesTea
Even a blind squirrel can find a nut. www.justin.tv/swearingjonny
Spectorials
Profile Joined October 2010
558 Posts
August 25 2011 04:47 GMT
#1298
On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:

TERRAN

Raven
Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.



Infestor move speed OFF creep is 2.25.

Creep gives 30% speed bonus.

Infestor move speed ON creeps is 2.925

lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
August 25 2011 04:48 GMT
#1299
I wish the hellion was reduced to +6 instead of +5 not for any other reason than 20 damage looks sexier than 19 damage.

I also wish they'd go right on and nerf marines instead of dicking around with the barracks so much. It's not like the marine isn't the reason that a barracks needs a supply depot and takes longer than a minute to build....

Not because I hate Terran--I play Terran--but simply because it'd be more elegant and direct.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
rave[wcr]
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1166 Posts
August 25 2011 04:48 GMT
#1300
is this going to be released before raleigh?
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