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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 25 2011 12:41 Golgotha wrote:
this patch solves 8 things:
1. Helps fight 4 gates due to immortal buff and ramp vision nerf.
2. B-Hellions one shotting workers...
3. Infestor buff against armor units helps against Toss deathball imo.
4. Bunker rushing/proxy rax is heavily nerfed due to increase rax time and scvs cannot repair themselves within.
5. HSM can actually hit stuff now (but it scares the hell out of me).
6. Mothership Recall can now be used more easily.
7. Ultras...yum
8. Overseer!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is probably my favorite thing. Now Z can scout more easily once we hit early to mid game without having to use so much gas. Also contaminate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS GONNA B SEXY!!!!!!!!
how the hell does Hunter Seeker scare the hell out of you? it costs 125 energy on a unit that is slow and has low hp. It can't even hit most zerg units and toss units are so beefy it won't even scratch them.
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omg a patch where I actually nothing to say against !
well done blizzard, i think this are some clever changes for competitive play
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On August 25 2011 10:50 Flonomenalz wrote:
Oh jesus... 5 damage Hellions? 5? Even as a Zerg player, isn't that too much? Mech is going to be hugely affected by this since Hellions are one of the main reasons you can't really go Ling/Muta vs good mech.... whoa. I love the 50/50 Overseer, 100 gas is just nuts, and 55 second Ultras.... yesssssss. Ultra tech switch after mass Vikings clean up broods is gonna be so much easier now.
Immortal range should definitely help with the 1/1/1, but by how much remains to be seen. Warp prism health increase was very much needed, they were like paper before, nowhere close to as cost efficient as dropping OLs or medivacs.
I don't understand the Rax build time increase. I don' t think 2rax is that big of an issue.... on close positions, yes... well, again remains to be seen. Seeker missile speed increase, Ravens getting some love.
lol its not 5 damage hellions . . . its blue flame only adds five damage. Five damage hellions would be retarded.
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On August 25 2011 12:44 Mastermind wrote:Huge buff to infestors that is listed as a non-balance change. That NP buff will have pretty big implications imo. My +3 colossus are going to hurt my army really bad now. I already thought that spell was too powerful 
It's an interesting mechanic, as it will have greater implications as the level of skill scales upwards (this is assuming that better players upgrade faster/more frequently/with a degree of regularity).
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I am liking this patch alot ^^
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On August 25 2011 12:24 Darpa wrote:
Seems alright. That aside the immortal change seem strange, doesnt that make Immortals outrange bunkers? that is going to cause alot of problems I think. But I guess we'll see how it plays out.
Range 6 is the same as stalkers. No problems with bunkers whatsoever 
As for the Nexus power thing, won't happen until HotS since it seems a big change imo.
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On August 25 2011 12:41 Golgotha wrote:
this patch solves 8 things:
1. Helps fight 4 gates due to immortal buff and ramp vision nerf.
2. B-Hellions one shotting workers...
3. Infestor buff against armor units helps against Toss deathball imo.
4. Bunker rushing/proxy rax is heavily nerfed due to increase rax time and scvs cannot repair themselves within.
5. HSM can actually hit stuff now (but it scares the hell out of me).
6. Mothership Recall can now be used more easily.
7. Ultras...yum
8. Overseer!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is probably my favorite thing. Now Z can scout more easily once we hit early to mid game without having to use so much gas. Also contaminate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS GONNA B SEXY!!!!!!!!
You know infestor get nerf against light AND heavy unit ?
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On August 25 2011 12:41 Golgotha wrote:
this patch solves 8 things:
3. Infestor buff against armor units helps against Toss deathball imo.
3. It's not a buff vs. Armoured, it's a nerf. Re-read it. Down from 46 to 40
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I am zerg and I approve of this message!
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Barracks build time increased? That sucks
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On August 25 2011 12:36 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 12:33 epikAnglory wrote:On August 25 2011 12:32 da_head wrote:On August 25 2011 12:30 ZeromuS wrote:On August 25 2011 12:26 epikAnglory wrote:When a building is canceled or salvaged the minerals returned will be displayed at the building location for the owner, for enemy players a floating text will be displayed. Is it me or am I taking this too serious? My opinion is that this takes away the point of cancelling something. For example you could see the which building your opponent was planning to build by looking at the amount of resources they get back. Didnt even think of that. So true such a bad idea >.< now wtf? i dont think you guys get this.. the resources show only on top of the building that gets cancelled. so both you, your opponent (and casters) can tell if the building died or was cancelled. its not like your opponent will get a message or would be able to see it through the fog of war... lmfao guys. I am pretty sure we were all thinking of when a player cancels a building when they see a scout/overlord coming into their base... Why would you cancel the building while there's a scout in your base..?
I don't think people are reading this properly. From what I understand, the building owner will have the salvaged minerals displayed while the enemy just get a text showing that the other player canceled it, not the minerals returned. (1 player will get "+25" and the other one just a "salvaged!" or other random word)
At least that's what I understand...
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Looooove the proposed changes. Especially appreciate what I take to be 'scouting buffs', for Protoss and Zerg. For Protoss, robotics facility is stronger as a standalone structure due to immortal buff (esp in PvP), which will hopefully push towards observers with early gas as opposed to an immediate robotics bay. For Zerg, Overseer will cost less to morph, leading to more of them and stronger midgame scouting. Keep up the good work.
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Why do people bitch and cry about changes when they're still only on PTR?! Sure, discuss them, theorycraft, but quit acting like these notes are the final cut :S.
Things which appear imba in the current metagame should be changed and tested on PTR, even if they aren't truly imbalanced. If they are bad changes, they won't make the final patch.
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On August 25 2011 12:43 Scisyhp wrote:
BF hellion nerf is very welcome (yes I'm a biased zerg) but even with the fungal nerf I think this is a good patch. Also I am REALLY excited about the drone buff - no more probes running in circles at my expo stopping my hatch. I assume they changed the attack delay on the drone to be equal to the probe and scv.
Drone buff? What is that? I must have missed it.
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I think the Blink nerf is too huge for PvP, and believe that it should only be increased by 10~15 seconds, if at all.
This means that PvP could just be 3g-stargate or 3g-robo (not necessarily in that build order), assuming the players mastered defending 4g. Or maybe im missing something.
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I really dislike how they are already nerfing FG and BFH without giving players enough time to figure out how to cope with these new strats D:
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Just my thoughts
I think the immortal attack range increase could help with dealing against 1-1-1 builds, but I'm not so sure that was the reason for the immortal change. The warp prism increase will definitely open up a protoss's opportunity for harass.
The barracks and blink time seems a bit random, bunker rushes aren't really that big of a problem now and so many early game timings will be a bit weird now. (rax and scv won't finish at the same time anymore)
The BFH nerf will add an extra shot against workers and marines without combat shields but not against zerglings. This may change some TvT openings now that hellions aren't as great against marines, but the hellion in a mech style TvZ seems like it should stay the same, and mech might have just been weakened in TvP since it will take longer to kill zealots.
The seeker missle upgrade may be something big, but it is still very expensive to get and use.
I believe the damage change to fungal won't accomplish much, the problem I think infestors have is that there is no way to escape a chain of fungals. Since it has a huge range, it's very good at being a defensive unit, able to shut down a lot of harass and even kill a large portion of pushes.
Overseers being cheaper will help zerg a lot when they scramble for detection, and contaminate will affect the low amount of people who use it, but it's not game breaking since nothing really relies completely on having contamination work.
The lowered ultra build speed will make it much easier for a zerg to remax on ultralisks. It may make ultralisks extremely useful or it could make a good tech switch from BL to ultra very powerful.
Overall I think these are pretty small changes all throughout. Some small timings and strategies may be changed but nothing big.
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On August 25 2011 12:44 icarly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 12:41 Golgotha wrote:
this patch solves 8 things:
1. Helps fight 4 gates due to immortal buff and ramp vision nerf.
2. B-Hellions one shotting workers...
3. Infestor buff against armor units helps against Toss deathball imo.
4. Bunker rushing/proxy rax is heavily nerfed due to increase rax time and scvs cannot repair themselves within.
5. HSM can actually hit stuff now (but it scares the hell out of me).
6. Mothership Recall can now be used more easily.
7. Ultras...yum
8. Overseer!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is probably my favorite thing. Now Z can scout more easily once we hit early to mid game without having to use so much gas. Also contaminate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS GONNA B SEXY!!!!!!!! how the hell does Hunter Seeker scare the hell out of you? it costs 125 energy on a unit that is slow and has low hp. It can't even hit most zerg units and toss units are so beefy it won't even scratch them.
It is now faster than virtually every Zerg unit off creep as well everything other than a speed prism, Stalker and Phoenixes for Protoss.
I guess the scary part is that it is now unavoidable for most units, it does 100damage and has a 33% greater AOE than Psi-Storm
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As a random player, I approve of all of this. I don't say this often, but well done Blizzard.
Love the hellion change, the infestor change, and the ultralisk change. And it's obvious they also wanted to decrease the strength of blink play, especially PvP, which is great.
Now perhaps my "300 food push" can actually contain T3 units 
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EPT
