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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 19 2011 09:01 fant0m wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 08:50 urashimakt wrote:On September 19 2011 08:40 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
100 gas* 50 gas*. The Ghost Academy costs 150 minerals and 50 gas, which is what he was getting at. Ghost Academy in the Liquipedia Ah you're right, I didn't read his post carefully enough. Though if you aren't even counting the cost of a tech lab, I don't know why you would count warp gates (I assume that's where he's getting the last 50 gas from, since twilight council+templar archives is 300 gas from what I'm looking at). And tbh I didn't realize the ghost academy was only 50 gas. That's kind of absurd....
My bad, I thought it was 350 for some reason, I might have been adding warpgate.
My jaw dropped when I saw the price of the Ghost Academy. There is no reason for that building to cost a little as it does. Think about it, to tech switch to ghosts costs 150 gas for your first EMP.
And the reason I don't count tech labs is if the terran is going bio, he is going to have them. Every protoss gets warpgate and sentries. The point of the matter is what you need to cut to get the higher tech unit. For templar without storm, its 300 gas. For Ghost with EMP, its 50 gas.
The Ghost is like this weird forgotten corner of the game from the beta. Like back when reactors built nearly instantly and warpgate had a 40 second research time.
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On September 19 2011 09:00 Reithan wrote:
When did that change? Because I am 100%+ certain it used it.
Stop trolling
it never has
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Ghost academy is 50 gas wow? Not sure why i had it in my mind that it was 150/150 lol
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On September 19 2011 09:24 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:01 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 08:50 urashimakt wrote:On September 19 2011 08:40 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
100 gas* 50 gas*. The Ghost Academy costs 150 minerals and 50 gas, which is what he was getting at. Ghost Academy in the Liquipedia Ah you're right, I didn't read his post carefully enough. Though if you aren't even counting the cost of a tech lab, I don't know why you would count warp gates (I assume that's where he's getting the last 50 gas from, since twilight council+templar archives is 300 gas from what I'm looking at). And tbh I didn't realize the ghost academy was only 50 gas. That's kind of absurd.... My bad, I thought it was 350 for some reason, I might have been adding warpgate. My jaw dropped when I saw the price of the Ghost Academy. There is no reason for that building to cost a little as it does. Think about it, to tech switch to ghosts costs 150 gas for your first EMP. And the reason I don't count tech labs is if the terran is going bio, he is going to have them. Every protoss gets warpgate and sentries. The point of the matter is what you need to cut to get the higher tech unit. For templar without storm, its 300 gas. For Ghost with EMP, its 50 gas. The Ghost is like this weird forgotten corner of the game from the beta. Like back when reactors built nearly instantly and warpgate had a 40 second research time.
If terran is going bio, he isn't tech switching, the tech switch from anything terran to ghosts is never as scary as a switch to colossus from zealot archon, or broodlord infestor from muta ling bane.
The reason the tech for ghosts is so cheap is because they aren't game changing unless protoss goes mass immortal or mass high templar, or both, because without ghosts you die.
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because without ghosts you die
This just isn't true.
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On September 19 2011 09:32 Jesushooves wrote:
The reason the tech for ghosts is so cheap is because they aren't game changing unless protoss goes mass immortal or mass high templar, or both, because without ghosts you die.
So why isn't the robo 50 gas then 
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On September 19 2011 09:34 Huntz wrote:This just isn't true.
What counters high templar immortal then?
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On September 19 2011 09:39 Jesushooves wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:34 Huntz wrote:because without ghosts you die This just isn't true. What counters high templar immortal then?
Well controlled marines, banshees.
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On September 19 2011 09:42 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:39 Jesushooves wrote:On September 19 2011 09:34 Huntz wrote:because without ghosts you die This just isn't true. What counters high templar immortal then? Well controlled marines, banshees.
but....he has high templar...storm and feedback? Not like he makes no stalkers either..
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On September 19 2011 09:44 Jesushooves wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:42 Daralii wrote:On September 19 2011 09:39 Jesushooves wrote:On September 19 2011 09:34 Huntz wrote:because without ghosts you die This just isn't true. What counters high templar immortal then? Well controlled marines, banshees. but....he has high templar...storm and feedback? Not like he makes no stalkers either..
Storm can be dodged, and feedback won't kill anything unless it's been sitting idle for a while.
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HT immortal would be speed 1.88 supporting speed 2.25. You could probably just use mass bio and stay mobile. Drain a couple medivacs by stimming and send them in front of a huge drop or something.
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On September 19 2011 09:39 Jesushooves wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:34 Huntz wrote:because without ghosts you die This just isn't true. What counters high templar immortal then?
I feel like the more important question is: why do you feel you need the counter to T3 and mass T2 to cost 50 gas to tech to?
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On September 19 2011 09:32 Jesushooves wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:24 Plansix wrote:On September 19 2011 09:01 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 08:50 urashimakt wrote:On September 19 2011 08:40 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
100 gas* 50 gas*. The Ghost Academy costs 150 minerals and 50 gas, which is what he was getting at. Ghost Academy in the Liquipedia Ah you're right, I didn't read his post carefully enough. Though if you aren't even counting the cost of a tech lab, I don't know why you would count warp gates (I assume that's where he's getting the last 50 gas from, since twilight council+templar archives is 300 gas from what I'm looking at). And tbh I didn't realize the ghost academy was only 50 gas. That's kind of absurd.... My bad, I thought it was 350 for some reason, I might have been adding warpgate. My jaw dropped when I saw the price of the Ghost Academy. There is no reason for that building to cost a little as it does. Think about it, to tech switch to ghosts costs 150 gas for your first EMP. And the reason I don't count tech labs is if the terran is going bio, he is going to have them. Every protoss gets warpgate and sentries. The point of the matter is what you need to cut to get the higher tech unit. For templar without storm, its 300 gas. For Ghost with EMP, its 50 gas. The Ghost is like this weird forgotten corner of the game from the beta. Like back when reactors built nearly instantly and warpgate had a 40 second research time. If terran is going bio, he isn't tech switching, the tech switch from anything terran to ghosts is never as scary as a switch to colossus from zealot archon, or broodlord infestor from muta ling bane. The reason the tech for ghosts is so cheap is because they aren't game changing unless protoss goes mass immortal or mass high templar, or both, because without ghosts you die.
I have a hard time accepting that part of the statement. Ghosts have EMP, which does massive damage to every protoss unit, and drains mana. The lowest amount of damage an EMP can do is 60 shields. If the protoss or zerg had a spell that did 60 damage instantly to anything at range 10, it would be totally broker and never would have made it past beta. It also allows the terran have mobile detection, beyond the scan.
And arguing it should be cheap so the terran does not have to plan ahead is poor at best.
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On September 19 2011 09:32 Jesushooves wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:24 Plansix wrote:On September 19 2011 09:01 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 08:50 urashimakt wrote:On September 19 2011 08:40 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
100 gas* 50 gas*. The Ghost Academy costs 150 minerals and 50 gas, which is what he was getting at. Ghost Academy in the Liquipedia Ah you're right, I didn't read his post carefully enough. Though if you aren't even counting the cost of a tech lab, I don't know why you would count warp gates (I assume that's where he's getting the last 50 gas from, since twilight council+templar archives is 300 gas from what I'm looking at). And tbh I didn't realize the ghost academy was only 50 gas. That's kind of absurd.... My bad, I thought it was 350 for some reason, I might have been adding warpgate. My jaw dropped when I saw the price of the Ghost Academy. There is no reason for that building to cost a little as it does. Think about it, to tech switch to ghosts costs 150 gas for your first EMP. And the reason I don't count tech labs is if the terran is going bio, he is going to have them. Every protoss gets warpgate and sentries. The point of the matter is what you need to cut to get the higher tech unit. For templar without storm, its 300 gas. For Ghost with EMP, its 50 gas. The Ghost is like this weird forgotten corner of the game from the beta. Like back when reactors built nearly instantly and warpgate had a 40 second research time. If terran is going bio, he isn't tech switching, the tech switch from anything terran to ghosts is never as scary as a switch to colossus from zealot archon, or broodlord infestor from muta ling bane. The reason the tech for ghosts is so cheap is because they aren't game changing unless protoss goes mass immortal or mass high templar, or both, because without ghosts you die.
"ghosts aren't game changing"
what? they are one of the most game changing units in the game...
150/50 can't even be called "tech switch".
lol it's like, I didn't make one stalker (125/50) so I can tech switch to templars....
the fact that many people here didn't even suspected/believed that the ghost academy is only 50 gas just show how this cost is disgustingly low
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On September 19 2011 09:58 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:32 Jesushooves wrote:On September 19 2011 09:24 Plansix wrote:On September 19 2011 09:01 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 08:50 urashimakt wrote:On September 19 2011 08:40 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
100 gas* 50 gas*. The Ghost Academy costs 150 minerals and 50 gas, which is what he was getting at. Ghost Academy in the Liquipedia Ah you're right, I didn't read his post carefully enough. Though if you aren't even counting the cost of a tech lab, I don't know why you would count warp gates (I assume that's where he's getting the last 50 gas from, since twilight council+templar archives is 300 gas from what I'm looking at). And tbh I didn't realize the ghost academy was only 50 gas. That's kind of absurd.... My bad, I thought it was 350 for some reason, I might have been adding warpgate. My jaw dropped when I saw the price of the Ghost Academy. There is no reason for that building to cost a little as it does. Think about it, to tech switch to ghosts costs 150 gas for your first EMP. And the reason I don't count tech labs is if the terran is going bio, he is going to have them. Every protoss gets warpgate and sentries. The point of the matter is what you need to cut to get the higher tech unit. For templar without storm, its 300 gas. For Ghost with EMP, its 50 gas. The Ghost is like this weird forgotten corner of the game from the beta. Like back when reactors built nearly instantly and warpgate had a 40 second research time. If terran is going bio, he isn't tech switching, the tech switch from anything terran to ghosts is never as scary as a switch to colossus from zealot archon, or broodlord infestor from muta ling bane. The reason the tech for ghosts is so cheap is because they aren't game changing unless protoss goes mass immortal or mass high templar, or both, because without ghosts you die. "ghosts aren't game changing" what? they are one of the most game changing units in the game... 150/50 can't even be called "tech switch". lol it's like, I didn't make one stalker so I can tech switch to templars.... just the fact that many people here didn't even suspected/believed that the ghost academy is only 50 gas just show how this cost is disgustingly low
I'm surprised more people don't wall their lategame expansions with ghost academies, personally. It's 150/50 for a building with 1250 health.
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On September 19 2011 10:02 Daralii wrote:
I'm surprised more people don't wall their lategame expansions with ghost academies, personally. It's 150/50 for a building with 1250 health.
Not to mention being able to stockpile nukes when you hit 200/200
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On September 19 2011 09:58 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:32 Jesushooves wrote:On September 19 2011 09:24 Plansix wrote:On September 19 2011 09:01 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 08:50 urashimakt wrote:On September 19 2011 08:40 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
100 gas* 50 gas*. The Ghost Academy costs 150 minerals and 50 gas, which is what he was getting at. Ghost Academy in the Liquipedia Ah you're right, I didn't read his post carefully enough. Though if you aren't even counting the cost of a tech lab, I don't know why you would count warp gates (I assume that's where he's getting the last 50 gas from, since twilight council+templar archives is 300 gas from what I'm looking at). And tbh I didn't realize the ghost academy was only 50 gas. That's kind of absurd.... My bad, I thought it was 350 for some reason, I might have been adding warpgate. My jaw dropped when I saw the price of the Ghost Academy. There is no reason for that building to cost a little as it does. Think about it, to tech switch to ghosts costs 150 gas for your first EMP. And the reason I don't count tech labs is if the terran is going bio, he is going to have them. Every protoss gets warpgate and sentries. The point of the matter is what you need to cut to get the higher tech unit. For templar without storm, its 300 gas. For Ghost with EMP, its 50 gas. The Ghost is like this weird forgotten corner of the game from the beta. Like back when reactors built nearly instantly and warpgate had a 40 second research time. If terran is going bio, he isn't tech switching, the tech switch from anything terran to ghosts is never as scary as a switch to colossus from zealot archon, or broodlord infestor from muta ling bane. The reason the tech for ghosts is so cheap is because they aren't game changing unless protoss goes mass immortal or mass high templar, or both, because without ghosts you die. "ghosts aren't game changing" what? they are one of the most game changing units in the game... 150/50 can't even be called "tech switch". lol it's like, I didn't make one stalker (125/50) so I can tech switch to templars.... the fact that many people here didn't even suspected/believed that the ghost academy is only 50 gas just show how this cost is disgustingly low
I'm surprised some people didn't even know the GA is only 50 gas... it truly is disgusting.
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On September 19 2011 10:06 itsjuspeter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:58 rpgalon wrote:On September 19 2011 09:32 Jesushooves wrote:On September 19 2011 09:24 Plansix wrote:On September 19 2011 09:01 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 08:50 urashimakt wrote:On September 19 2011 08:40 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
100 gas* 50 gas*. The Ghost Academy costs 150 minerals and 50 gas, which is what he was getting at. Ghost Academy in the Liquipedia Ah you're right, I didn't read his post carefully enough. Though if you aren't even counting the cost of a tech lab, I don't know why you would count warp gates (I assume that's where he's getting the last 50 gas from, since twilight council+templar archives is 300 gas from what I'm looking at). And tbh I didn't realize the ghost academy was only 50 gas. That's kind of absurd.... My bad, I thought it was 350 for some reason, I might have been adding warpgate. My jaw dropped when I saw the price of the Ghost Academy. There is no reason for that building to cost a little as it does. Think about it, to tech switch to ghosts costs 150 gas for your first EMP. And the reason I don't count tech labs is if the terran is going bio, he is going to have them. Every protoss gets warpgate and sentries. The point of the matter is what you need to cut to get the higher tech unit. For templar without storm, its 300 gas. For Ghost with EMP, its 50 gas. The Ghost is like this weird forgotten corner of the game from the beta. Like back when reactors built nearly instantly and warpgate had a 40 second research time. If terran is going bio, he isn't tech switching, the tech switch from anything terran to ghosts is never as scary as a switch to colossus from zealot archon, or broodlord infestor from muta ling bane. The reason the tech for ghosts is so cheap is because they aren't game changing unless protoss goes mass immortal or mass high templar, or both, because without ghosts you die. "ghosts aren't game changing" what? they are one of the most game changing units in the game... 150/50 can't even be called "tech switch". lol it's like, I didn't make one stalker (125/50) so I can tech switch to templars.... the fact that many people here didn't even suspected/believed that the ghost academy is only 50 gas just show how this cost is disgustingly low I'm surprised some people didn't even know the GA is only 50 gas... it truly is disgusting.
the only thing I can think of that can try to justify the amazing low cost is because maybe blizzard want mass nukes.
but 50 gas for EMP is bullshit, it needs to be a 200/200 research.
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On September 19 2011 10:07 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 10:06 itsjuspeter wrote:On September 19 2011 09:58 rpgalon wrote:On September 19 2011 09:32 Jesushooves wrote:On September 19 2011 09:24 Plansix wrote:On September 19 2011 09:01 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 08:50 urashimakt wrote:On September 19 2011 08:40 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
100 gas* 50 gas*. The Ghost Academy costs 150 minerals and 50 gas, which is what he was getting at. Ghost Academy in the Liquipedia Ah you're right, I didn't read his post carefully enough. Though if you aren't even counting the cost of a tech lab, I don't know why you would count warp gates (I assume that's where he's getting the last 50 gas from, since twilight council+templar archives is 300 gas from what I'm looking at). And tbh I didn't realize the ghost academy was only 50 gas. That's kind of absurd.... My bad, I thought it was 350 for some reason, I might have been adding warpgate. My jaw dropped when I saw the price of the Ghost Academy. There is no reason for that building to cost a little as it does. Think about it, to tech switch to ghosts costs 150 gas for your first EMP. And the reason I don't count tech labs is if the terran is going bio, he is going to have them. Every protoss gets warpgate and sentries. The point of the matter is what you need to cut to get the higher tech unit. For templar without storm, its 300 gas. For Ghost with EMP, its 50 gas. The Ghost is like this weird forgotten corner of the game from the beta. Like back when reactors built nearly instantly and warpgate had a 40 second research time. If terran is going bio, he isn't tech switching, the tech switch from anything terran to ghosts is never as scary as a switch to colossus from zealot archon, or broodlord infestor from muta ling bane. The reason the tech for ghosts is so cheap is because they aren't game changing unless protoss goes mass immortal or mass high templar, or both, because without ghosts you die. "ghosts aren't game changing" what? they are one of the most game changing units in the game... 150/50 can't even be called "tech switch". lol it's like, I didn't make one stalker (125/50) so I can tech switch to templars.... the fact that many people here didn't even suspected/believed that the ghost academy is only 50 gas just show how this cost is disgustingly low I'm surprised some people didn't even know the GA is only 50 gas... it truly is disgusting. the only thing I can think of that can try to justify the amazing low cost is because maybe blizzard want mass nukes. but 50 gas for EMP is bullshit, it needs to be a 200/200 research.
And its not like the Ghost does bad DPS either. They do 10 damage + 10 to light at 6 range, with the same rate of fire as the marauder. Basically its is a marauder, but with the damage bonus to light, and never takes extra damage from anything. And they are 2 supply, because we can't have the terran getting supply blocked.
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On September 19 2011 09:42 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:39 Jesushooves wrote:On September 19 2011 09:34 Huntz wrote:because without ghosts you die This just isn't true. What counters high templar immortal then? Well controlled marines, banshees.
and/or ghosts work too...
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EPT
