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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
United States7483 Posts
On September 19 2011 07:24 RedFoxOne wrote:
Can someone explain to me what "from 30% damage vs armored to 40 vs armored means"? Do armored units now take net damage of 40? Or was it a typo and armored units now take 40% damage?
Fungal used to deal 36 damage, and did 30% more damage to armored. They are changing it to be 30 damage, and a flat 40 against armored.
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On September 18 2011 20:25 Goken wrote:
What disturbs me is that everyone is running around screaming about blizz might be stupid with the balance and no one is upset that blizzard completely broke the sounds for the game.
Its disgusting to play on the PTR with the sound fading in and out with a bunch of echoes and artifacts. And other then 2 threads on the bnet EU forums with like 3 replies there is not a word about it. And Blizzard does not read the EU bnet forums.
Its always been like that in the PTR as long as i can remember, but when it goes live its never like that.
I think its a PTR specific problem
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I'm really starting to get annoyed by ppl saying "FG nerf was nothing, it still takes the same amount of spells to kill toss units". Do you have any idea how wrong this is? Yes its true, that it takes the same amount of FG but the damage potential is quite large. If you manage to catch say 8-9 units, the damage you no longer have adds up. This comes into play when other zerg units on the battlefield do their work.
Also, idk if there's mass amesia afoot here, but FG roots enemies to the ground. The purpose is so you can kill the helpless units with your units. Its not a psi storm. The damage is nice but not the main perk of the spell.
That being said, I agree that it needs more nerfing. Its very strong in its current version simply because it fucks over armies and makes them unable to react/retreat. This was a big nerf, but not big enough. The balance team should focus on that, not NP.
And I think i've already bitched enough about the NP nerf
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On September 19 2011 07:11 eourcs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 07:06 Joseph123 wrote:On September 19 2011 07:00 Protosnake wrote:It seems like just making templar move speed the same as ghost and infestor move speed would solve a lot of these caster issues without actually nerfing neural or emp. My though exactly. Buffing HT speed would be much more logical well what can be said.. both ghost and infestor have research for +25 energy and templars don't both infestor and ghost have bigger range than ht both infestor and ghost are faster than ht both infestor and ghost have more hp than ht and I don't see any logic in ht being slower than the other 2 casters, not at all, since it is the unit with the least hp My ghosts can't morph into fucking super power balls of energy that deal and tank a shitton of damage. stop. comparing. casters. directly.
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
Seriously, every time a Protoss player says Ghosts are OP, every terran replies "feedback". Then we say, "the templar goes the same speed as a Thor, that is to slow" and the response is, "Get better, get a WP and ferry them my ghosts."
Also, why does EMP and Fungal reveal cloaked units? Storm doesn't, and protoss have to pay for that?
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On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 07:11 eourcs wrote:On September 19 2011 07:06 Joseph123 wrote:On September 19 2011 07:00 Protosnake wrote:It seems like just making templar move speed the same as ghost and infestor move speed would solve a lot of these caster issues without actually nerfing neural or emp. My though exactly. Buffing HT speed would be much more logical well what can be said.. both ghost and infestor have research for +25 energy and templars don't both infestor and ghost have bigger range than ht both infestor and ghost are faster than ht both infestor and ghost have more hp than ht and I don't see any logic in ht being slower than the other 2 casters, not at all, since it is the unit with the least hp My ghosts can't morph into fucking super power balls of energy that deal and tank a shitton of damage. stop. comparing. casters. directly. Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas. Seriously, every time a Protoss player says Ghosts are OP, every terran replies "feedback". Then we say, "the templar goes the same speed as a Thor, that is to slow" and the response is, "Get better, get a WP and ferry them my ghosts." Also, why does EMP and Fungal reveal cloaked units? Storm doesn't, and protoss have to pay for that?
There's also the point that Feedback isn't an effective counter when you consider EMP has a greater range, a radius and Ghosts are (as you pointed out) far more mobile.
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On September 19 2011 07:45 JamesJohansen wrote:
I'm really starting to get annoyed by ppl saying "FG nerf was nothing, it still takes the same amount of spells to kill toss units". Do you have any idea how wrong this is? Yes its true, that it takes the same amount of FG but the damage potential is quite large. If you manage to catch say 8-9 units, the damage you no longer have adds up. This comes into play when other zerg units on the battlefield do their work.
Also, idk if there's mass amesia afoot here, but FG roots enemies to the ground. The purpose is so you can kill the helpless units with your units. Its not a psi storm. The damage is nice but not the main perk of the spell.
That being said, I agree that it needs more nerfing. Its very strong in its current version simply because it fucks over armies and makes them unable to react/retreat. This was a big nerf, but not big enough. The balance team should focus on that, not NP.
And I think i've already bitched enough about the NP nerf
Yeah, the rooting is pretty powerful. Though I rarely saw Queens in BW when playing against Zerg (as T), when I was Ensnared, it was so terribly annoying, despite the fact my units could still move.
Fungal Growth, however, is a Maelstrom that works on ALL units and does damage (good damage, might I add) on top of that. That being said, Infestors are a lot more easily accessible and cheaper than DAs.
In JP's interviews with DK and DB back in May, DK said they were going to be fixing Infestor + BL. Well, this doesn't fix it, because the primary role of Infestors in that composition is to root units while BLs go to town. That said, even according to Blizz, the Infestor still is in need of nerfing since this patch doesn't change anything with Infestor + BL.
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On September 19 2011 07:07 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 07:06 Joseph123 wrote:On September 19 2011 07:00 Protosnake wrote:It seems like just making templar move speed the same as ghost and infestor move speed would solve a lot of these caster issues without actually nerfing neural or emp. My though exactly. Buffing HT speed would be much more logical well what can be said.. both ghost and infestor have research for +25 energy and templars don't both infestor and ghost have bigger range than ht both infestor and ghost are faster than ht both infestor and ghost have more hp than ht and I don't see any logic in ht being slower than the other 2 casters, not at all, since it is the unit with the least hp Not to mention that HT arguably has the weakest spells.
Not to mention that HT AoE spell is the only with "friendfire mode on" that can kill your own zealots when they charge a kiting MMM ball that is dodging the storms
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On September 19 2011 08:05 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 07:07 Whitewing wrote:On September 19 2011 07:06 Joseph123 wrote:On September 19 2011 07:00 Protosnake wrote:It seems like just making templar move speed the same as ghost and infestor move speed would solve a lot of these caster issues without actually nerfing neural or emp. My though exactly. Buffing HT speed would be much more logical well what can be said.. both ghost and infestor have research for +25 energy and templars don't both infestor and ghost have bigger range than ht both infestor and ghost are faster than ht both infestor and ghost have more hp than ht and I don't see any logic in ht being slower than the other 2 casters, not at all, since it is the unit with the least hp Not to mention that HT arguably has the weakest spells. Not to mention that HT AoE spell is the only with "friendfire mode on" that can kill your own zealots when they charge a kiting MMM ball that is dodging the storms
Technically EMP also has friendly fire
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On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
100 gas*
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On September 19 2011 08:40 fant0m wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
100 gas*
50 gas*.
The Ghost Academy costs 150 minerals and 50 gas, which is what he was getting at.
Ghost Academy in the Liquipedia
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On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Also, why does EMP and Fungal reveal cloaked units? Storm doesn't, and protoss have to pay for that?
Yes it does.
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On September 19 2011 08:52 Reithan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Also, why does EMP and Fungal reveal cloaked units? Storm doesn't, and protoss have to pay for that? Yes it does.
Our detector's also invisible, though.
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On September 19 2011 08:52 Reithan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Also, why does EMP and Fungal reveal cloaked units? Storm doesn't, and protoss have to pay for that? Yes it does.
No it does not.... it can hurt them yes, but does not reveal them for your other units to kill...
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On September 19 2011 08:52 Reithan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Also, why does EMP and Fungal reveal cloaked units? Storm doesn't, and protoss have to pay for that? Yes it does.
you are 100% wrong with that. It can damage a cloaked unit but in no way does it reveal ANY cloaked units
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When did that change? Because I am 100%+ certain it used it.
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On September 19 2011 08:50 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 08:40 fant0m wrote:On September 19 2011 07:57 Plansix wrote:
Why shouldn't we? Feedback is the most effective counter to the Ghost, considering they have health close a marauder and take bonus damage from nothing. High Templar being a slow as a Thor is silly. You have to invest 350 gas to have the option to build a high templar. Ghost require an investment of 50 gas.
100 gas* 50 gas*. The Ghost Academy costs 150 minerals and 50 gas, which is what he was getting at. Ghost Academy in the Liquipedia
Ah you're right, I didn't read his post carefully enough. Though if you aren't even counting the cost of a tech lab, I don't know why you would count warp gates (I assume that's where he's getting the last 50 gas from, since twilight council+templar archives is 300 gas from what I'm looking at).
And tbh I didn't realize the ghost academy was only 50 gas. That's kind of absurd....
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On September 19 2011 08:36 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 08:05 rpgalon wrote:On September 19 2011 07:07 Whitewing wrote:On September 19 2011 07:06 Joseph123 wrote:On September 19 2011 07:00 Protosnake wrote:It seems like just making templar move speed the same as ghost and infestor move speed would solve a lot of these caster issues without actually nerfing neural or emp. My though exactly. Buffing HT speed would be much more logical well what can be said.. both ghost and infestor have research for +25 energy and templars don't both infestor and ghost have bigger range than ht both infestor and ghost are faster than ht both infestor and ghost have more hp than ht and I don't see any logic in ht being slower than the other 2 casters, not at all, since it is the unit with the least hp Not to mention that HT arguably has the weakest spells. Not to mention that HT AoE spell is the only with "friendfire mode on" that can kill your own zealots when they charge a kiting MMM ball that is dodging the storms Technically EMP also has friendly fire
even the EMP "friendly fire" is good, lol.
terran can deny feedback on thors/battlecruisers/banshees by EMPing then.
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On September 19 2011 09:04 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 08:36 BeeNu wrote:On September 19 2011 08:05 rpgalon wrote:On September 19 2011 07:07 Whitewing wrote:On September 19 2011 07:06 Joseph123 wrote:On September 19 2011 07:00 Protosnake wrote:It seems like just making templar move speed the same as ghost and infestor move speed would solve a lot of these caster issues without actually nerfing neural or emp. My though exactly. Buffing HT speed would be much more logical well what can be said.. both ghost and infestor have research for +25 energy and templars don't both infestor and ghost have bigger range than ht both infestor and ghost are faster than ht both infestor and ghost have more hp than ht and I don't see any logic in ht being slower than the other 2 casters, not at all, since it is the unit with the least hp Not to mention that HT arguably has the weakest spells. Not to mention that HT AoE spell is the only with "friendfire mode on" that can kill your own zealots when they charge a kiting MMM ball that is dodging the storms Technically EMP also has friendly fire even the EMP "friendly fire" is good, lol. terran can deny feedback on thors/battlecruisers/banshees by EMPing then.
Well technically you can Storm your own Colossus to kill them if they get Neural Parasited loloool
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On September 19 2011 09:00 Reithan wrote:
When did that change? Because I am 100%+ certain it used it.
well I have been playing since 2 months into beta and it hasnt since then...maybe you were duped :D
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On September 19 2011 09:07 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:04 rpgalon wrote:On September 19 2011 08:36 BeeNu wrote:On September 19 2011 08:05 rpgalon wrote:On September 19 2011 07:07 Whitewing wrote:On September 19 2011 07:06 Joseph123 wrote:On September 19 2011 07:00 Protosnake wrote:It seems like just making templar move speed the same as ghost and infestor move speed would solve a lot of these caster issues without actually nerfing neural or emp. My though exactly. Buffing HT speed would be much more logical well what can be said.. both ghost and infestor have research for +25 energy and templars don't both infestor and ghost have bigger range than ht both infestor and ghost are faster than ht both infestor and ghost have more hp than ht and I don't see any logic in ht being slower than the other 2 casters, not at all, since it is the unit with the least hp Not to mention that HT arguably has the weakest spells. Not to mention that HT AoE spell is the only with "friendfire mode on" that can kill your own zealots when they charge a kiting MMM ball that is dodging the storms Technically EMP also has friendly fire even the EMP "friendly fire" is good, lol. terran can deny feedback on thors/battlecruisers/banshees by EMPing then. Well technically you can Storm your own Colossus to kill them if they get Neural Parasited loloool
ok, you won =P
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EPT
