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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
Hey guys, do you love reading Belial88's thoughts on the Protoss race, but don't have enough time to dig into his meaty posts? Don't sweat it. I'll give you the rundown of his thoughts on every Protoss unit.
Voidrays: 'Unstoppable'
Carriers: 'Unstoppable'
Carriers and Voidrays: 'Unstoppable, but not imbalanced.'
Sentries: 'Probably imbalanced.'
Motherships: 'Definitely imbalanced'
Stalkers: 'The counter to every Zerg unit'
Archons: 'Uncounterable by any Zerg unit'
Zealots: 'Good against Roaches.'
Zealots and Archons: 'The hard counter to roaches.'
HT: 'By the time you've read this description, all my Infestors are already dead.'
Colossus: 'Hard counter to everything... which is why the Infestor's neural parasite has to affect massive... but... even with neural parasite... Colossus still hard counter them.'
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On September 15 2011 13:55 Treble557 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 13:51 Ventor wrote:
Corrupters are the counter to collos, not infestors.
Everything you say from here on out is now automatically invalidated by your one silly comment. lolololololol. But yes, the topic needs to end. People need to move to the PTR. Arguing here isn't helping any of us or the state of the game.
What is wrong with what I posted? Why should the best unit of the protoss arsenal be almost completely nullified by a unit which also has many other useful uses?
I'm a high masters toss player, what are you?
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When HOTS comes out with the harass unit Blizz said is going to Protoss, ZvP and TvP may become remotely balanced. At the moment, may as well just play for fun and for the challenge of beating the odds.
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On September 15 2011 13:56 zhurai wrote:"countering" collosi with corrupters is just.... pretty retarded. Show nested quote +I come to see what everyone thinks about the patch and I get flooded out by zerg tears. maybe these "zerg tears" you got "flooded out" by are actually what a portion of "everyone" thinks about this patch?... I mean.. just like.. maybe?
Nope. Accept the nerf and ajust. Like protoss have done after all our nerfs. Blizzard has created an amazing game and are making nessesary adjustments to it. If you create a better rts, I will submit to your complaints. 
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On September 15 2011 14:16 Ventor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 13:56 zhurai wrote:"countering" collosi with corrupters is just.... pretty retarded. I come to see what everyone thinks about the patch and I get flooded out by zerg tears. maybe these "zerg tears" you got "flooded out" by are actually what a portion of "everyone" thinks about this patch?... I mean.. just like.. maybe? Nope. Accept the nerf and ajust. Like protoss have done after all our nerfs. Blizzard has created an amazing game and are making nessesary adjustments to it. If you create a better rts, I will submit to your complaints.
What in my post said that I didn't accept the nerf or not?
I'm just that the "zerg tears" that you speak of *are* what part of the "everyone" that you're talking about.
Not sure why you're now directing that at me.
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I think everyone can agree that Infestors were a very versatile unit. I mean prepatch you would always want to have them once you reached the midgame, and you may still always want them. Blizzard wants unit diversity in the game (as should everyone), and this is the way they went about trying to get it.
I think most people also agree that the neural nerf was not the best way (or even a good way) to fix the problem. Blizzard could have chosen many other more sensible options, but then again, Blizzard makes very questionable decisions in almost every patch.
Blizzard tried to give zergs some buffs to make up for losing the ability to neural massive units, like making ultras build faster. Now you have to admit ultras with support from lings/roaches can shred colo/blink stalker/sentry, breaking FFs and such, but seeing as we don't see that happen too often, maybe Blizzard needed to buff more than just their build time to make them worthwhile. Or it could be because they take too long to tech to and the deathball is already at your base by then.
These are the kinds of things that we will find out, but just because infestors can no longer take control of colossi, doesn't mean that zergs are being thrown back to the stone age and being forced to make exclusively roach/hydra/corruptor. Zergs have made so many great advancements in their expansion timings and play styles that they would not let something like that happen.
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On September 15 2011 14:18 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 14:16 Ventor wrote:On September 15 2011 13:56 zhurai wrote:"countering" collosi with corrupters is just.... pretty retarded. I come to see what everyone thinks about the patch and I get flooded out by zerg tears. maybe these "zerg tears" you got "flooded out" by are actually what a portion of "everyone" thinks about this patch?... I mean.. just like.. maybe? Nope. Accept the nerf and ajust. Like protoss have done after all our nerfs. Blizzard has created an amazing game and are making nessesary adjustments to it. If you create a better rts, I will submit to your complaints. What in my post said that I didn't accept the nerf or not? I don't really care. I'm just that the "zerg tears" that you speak of *are* what part of the "everyone" that you're talking about. Not sure why you're now directing that at me.
What are you talking about? I was directing the statement at all the zergs who are bitching and whining that they are going to be useless next patch.
A small amount of retarded low league toss and terran will think the nerf is dumb, but that's because their level and understanding of pro level play is poor.
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On September 15 2011 14:22 Ventor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 14:18 zhurai wrote:On September 15 2011 14:16 Ventor wrote:On September 15 2011 13:56 zhurai wrote:"countering" collosi with corrupters is just.... pretty retarded. I come to see what everyone thinks about the patch and I get flooded out by zerg tears. maybe these "zerg tears" you got "flooded out" by are actually what a portion of "everyone" thinks about this patch?... I mean.. just like.. maybe? Nope. Accept the nerf and ajust. Like protoss have done after all our nerfs. Blizzard has created an amazing game and are making nessesary adjustments to it. If you create a better rts, I will submit to your complaints. What in my post said that I didn't accept the nerf or not? I don't really care. I'm just that the "zerg tears" that you speak of *are* what part of the "everyone" that you're talking about. Not sure why you're now directing that at me. What are you talking about? I was directing the statement at all the zergs who are bitching and whining that they are going to be useless next patch. A small amount of retarded low league toss and terran will think the nerf is dumb, but that's because their level and understanding of pro level play is poor.
Sorry, thought that statement was towards me because you quoted me.
Carry on ..
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Ultralisk build time is arguably one of the most useless buffs implemented. Acquiring ultras has never been a problem and neither has the duration. It has never been about not being able to recruit more ultralisks in time. No one has lost because ultralisks just took too long. It's because most ultras die before they even get close.
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On September 15 2011 14:09 -_- wrote:
Stalkers: 'The counter to every Zerg unit'
Archons: 'Uncounterable by any Zerg unit'
QTFL Too much fun the subtelty of The counter to Uncounterable!
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On September 15 2011 14:24 Crisco wrote:
Ultralisk build time is arguably one of the most useless buffs implemented. Acquiring ultras has never been a problem and neither has the duration. It has never been about not being able to recruit more ultralisks in time. No one has lost because ultralisks just took too long. It's because most ultras die before they even get close.
This couldn't be more wrong. Its now much easier to remax with ultras. Watch idra vs destiny mlg. Faster ultras would of helped out. It may not be a huge buff but it is quite a nice buff.
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This thread will be a gem one day.
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Edit: nevermind, it isn't worth trying to have logical discussions in this thread.
Hope they roll out 1.4 soon so zergs get tired of complaining.
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On September 15 2011 14:31 Ventor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 14:24 Crisco wrote:
Ultralisk build time is arguably one of the most useless buffs implemented. Acquiring ultras has never been a problem and neither has the duration. It has never been about not being able to recruit more ultralisks in time. No one has lost because ultralisks just took too long. It's because most ultras die before they even get close. This couldn't be more wrong. Its now much easier to remax with ultras. Watch idra vs destiny mlg. Faster ultras would of helped out. It may not be a huge buff but it is quite a nice buff.
Idra and Destiny had a match at MLG? Could you give a link to the replay please, I never seen these games.
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On September 15 2011 14:38 Lomak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 14:31 Ventor wrote:On September 15 2011 14:24 Crisco wrote:
Ultralisk build time is arguably one of the most useless buffs implemented. Acquiring ultras has never been a problem and neither has the duration. It has never been about not being able to recruit more ultralisks in time. No one has lost because ultralisks just took too long. It's because most ultras die before they even get close. This couldn't be more wrong. Its now much easier to remax with ultras. Watch idra vs destiny mlg. Faster ultras would of helped out. It may not be a huge buff but it is quite a nice buff. Idra and Destiny had a match at MLG? Could you give a link to the replay please, I never seen these games.
I'm on a phone right now so I can't direct you to it. However, it was the most recent online event from mlg. It was played last night. Do a search and you will find it.
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On September 15 2011 14:09 -_- wrote:
Hey guys, do you love reading Belial88's thoughts on the Protoss race, but don't have enough time to dig into his meaty posts? Don't sweat it. I'll give you the rundown of his thoughts on every Protoss unit.
Voidrays: 'Unstoppable'
Carriers: 'Unstoppable'
Carriers and Voidrays: 'Unstoppable, but not imbalanced.'
Sentries: 'Probably imbalanced.'
Motherships: 'Definitely imbalanced'
Stalkers: 'The counter to every Zerg unit'
Archons: 'Uncounterable by any Zerg unit'
Zealots: 'Good against Roaches.'
Zealots and Archons: 'The hard counter to roaches.'
HT: 'By the time you've read this description, all my Infestors are already dead.'
Colossus: 'Hard counter to everything... which is why the Infestor's neural parasite has to affect massive... but... even with neural parasite... Colossus still hard counter them.'
I usually skip over his posts due to the excessive amount of QQ within them...
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On September 15 2011 14:09 -_- wrote:
Hey guys, do you love reading Belial88's thoughts on the Protoss race, but don't have enough time to dig into his meaty posts? Don't sweat it. I'll give you the rundown of his thoughts on every Protoss unit.
Voidrays: 'Unstoppable'
Carriers: 'Unstoppable'
Carriers and Voidrays: 'Unstoppable, but not imbalanced.'
Sentries: 'Probably imbalanced.'
Motherships: 'Definitely imbalanced'
Stalkers: 'The counter to every Zerg unit'
Archons: 'Uncounterable by any Zerg unit'
Zealots: 'Good against Roaches.'
Zealots and Archons: 'The hard counter to roaches.'
HT: 'By the time you've read this description, all my Infestors are already dead.'
Colossus: 'Hard counter to everything... which is why the Infestor's neural parasite has to affect massive... but... even with neural parasite... Colossus still hard counter them.'
lmao you're getting deeper in this counterception !!! Everything from Protoss is uncounterable and be counterable to any Zerg units. Like a matrix!
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On September 15 2011 14:09 -_- wrote:
Hey guys, do you love reading Belial88's thoughts on the Protoss race, but don't have enough time to dig into his meaty posts? Don't sweat it. I'll give you the rundown of his thoughts on every Protoss unit.
Voidrays: 'Unstoppable'
Carriers: 'Unstoppable'
Carriers and Voidrays: 'Unstoppable, but not imbalanced.'
Sentries: 'Probably imbalanced.'
Motherships: 'Definitely imbalanced'
Stalkers: 'The counter to every Zerg unit'
Archons: 'Uncounterable by any Zerg unit'
Zealots: 'Good against Roaches.'
Zealots and Archons: 'The hard counter to roaches.'
HT: 'By the time you've read this description, all my Infestors are already dead.'
Colossus: 'Hard counter to everything... which is why the Infestor's neural parasite has to affect massive... but... even with neural parasite... Colossus still hard counter them.'
Nice taking things out of context. Glad your actually contributing to the conversation instead of being a troll. Zealots beats roach when unmicrod, archon/zealot beats roach/hydra, never said anything about archons, motherships, sentries. Said carrier/VR is a strong ZvP composition, but it's impossible to get out in the sense that Ultra/BL/queen is good, stalkers can counter any zerg unit in certain situations or support except infestors, didn't say colossi counter everything, just corruptors are bad against them.
Troll
What is wrong with what I posted? Why should the best unit of the protoss arsenal be almost completely nullified by a unit which also has many other useful uses?
I'm a high masters toss player, what are you?
He was kind of an asshole how he said what he said to you, but corruptors ARE horrible against colossi.
I think most people also agree that the neural nerf was not the best way (or even a good way) to fix the problem. Blizzard could have chosen many other more sensible options, but then again, Blizzard makes very questionable decisions in almost every patch.
Blizzard tried to give zergs some buffs to make up for losing the ability to neural massive units, like making ultras build faster. Now you have to admit ultras with support from lings/roaches can shred colo/blink stalker/sentry, breaking FFs and such, but seeing as we don't see that happen too often, maybe Blizzard needed to buff more than just their build time to make them worthwhile. Or it could be because they take too long to tech to and the deathball is already at your base by then.
I don't think anyone even knows why the NP change occured. We have a terrible piece of evidence in a customer service reply, who said "thors are bad against NP" or something vague like that, but NP was never used against mech by top players due to siege tanks, and the high cost of infestors and better utility in mass roach or mass muta.
And this NP nerf came like an afterthought, so I'm inclined to think that the ultra buff was not done with the infestor nerf in mind. Maybe Blizz realized that no zergs gave a shit about the FG nerf because everything still dies in the same number of hits, so they though they should nerf the infestor more and didn't realize the differences in making FG weaker and NP useless, as they serve two totally different purposes (one against mass t1 units, the other is for small numbers of t3 units).
Ultralisk build time is arguably one of the most useless buffs implemented. Acquiring ultras has never been a problem and neither has the duration. It has never been about not being able to recruit more ultralisks in time. No one has lost because ultralisks just took too long. It's because most ultras die before they even get close.
I gotta disagree, I think it's one of the best buffs ever. Acquiring ultras was always a HUGE problem, that they took over a minute to make. Ultralisks are amazing units, and no they don't die before they get close, they are fucking awesome (I made a guide about how ultralisks wreck P deathballs). The biggest problem with ultras is that even after throwing an army at an opponent, even on a long map, if you tried to remax on ultras instantly, it still wouldn't be enough time before P was in your base with their super mobile army killing your base and owning your ultras as they come out one by one.
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Russian Federation473 Posts
On September 15 2011 14:19 Fig wrote:
I think everyone can agree that Infestors were a very versatile unit. I mean prepatch you would always want to have them once you reached the midgame, and you may still always want them. Blizzard wants unit diversity in the game (as should everyone), and this is the way they went about trying to get it.
I think most people also agree that the neural nerf was not the best way (or even a good way) to fix the problem. Blizzard could have chosen many other more sensible options, but then again, Blizzard makes very questionable decisions in almost every patch.
actually blizzard (or at least Mr. Kim) seems to completeley neglect the principles of diversity.
as Mr. Kim openly stated in an interview, some units exist purely for fun of less skilled players (like mothership).
and every single patch goes even further in making game simplier - with few notable exceptions.
if i'm totally honest, i tend to blame Mr. Kim personally for this policy - and hope that blizzard will replace it's balance manager with a more competent person.
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^ I think DK has been doing fine ;/
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EPT
