• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:29
CET 13:29
KST 21:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation13Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2126 users

Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 417

Forum Index > Closed
9040 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 415 416 417 418 419 453 Next
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 10:53:49
September 15 2011 10:52 GMT
#8321
On September 15 2011 16:20 Trealador wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 16:00 hobosrus wrote:
huh so many people think that pvz is in favor of protoss. That may be true in gold league but in the pro scene ive seen great tosses lose to okayish zergs so often. even the overall tournament win rate is in favor of zerg...so many people who thnk that they know what they are talkng about. why dont you just let pros decide balance, they know best.


We are talking about future metagame with the NP nerf and protoss buffs, I understand PvZ is in favor slightly for the Zerg at the moment. Please try to grasp simple concepts in a thread designated for the past patches and tournaments. Oh wait.

And Artosis is probably one of the most knowledgeable people in SC. Just because he spends his time casting instead of playing, doesn't make his knowledge of the game less valid. And since he is somewhat of an expert on the races he has played. Oh yeah, Zerg and Protoss. And he didn't say it was super imba, he just said he would like to see how it would effect the PvZ matchup because Stalkers are far too versatile like the infestor which is getting...buffed?


He said that when Blink stalker were all the rage in Korea, but a LOT has changed since then, especially since people found out that Ling/Infestor straight up hard counters the Blink Stalker builds he was talking about. If you listened to his recent opinions on ZvP he has said the match up is really hard for Protoss
Cibron
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden253 Posts
September 15 2011 11:49 GMT
#8322
Aa a terran player I say Zergs will lose ZvTs horribly if the patch goes live in its current state.

I love the idea of the NP change but zerg will need something else to deal with thors/collosi. I guess this is a necessary step for blizz to fix the ZvP MU. Crazy infestor buffs was not the right way to do it.

I still don't get why they let infested terrans go unchanged -__-
ZOMGY (¬O_o)¬ || BeastyQQ FTW!! ||
DisaFear
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia4074 Posts
September 15 2011 11:52 GMT
#8323
Haven't been keeping up with the thread
Why not make there a limit to the number of massive units that can be NP'ed at any given time. Someone has probably mentioned this though

Anywhere between 1 to 3 sounds fine
How devious | http://anartisticanswer.blogspot.com.au/
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 20:12:52
September 15 2011 12:01 GMT
#8324
* wrong thread*
KT best KT ~ 2014
Harrow
Profile Joined November 2010
United States245 Posts
September 15 2011 12:03 GMT
#8325
On September 15 2011 20:52 DisaFear wrote:
Haven't been keeping up with the thread
Why not make there a limit to the number of massive units that can be NP'ed at any given time. Someone has probably mentioned this though

Anywhere between 1 to 3 sounds fine


How would this make sense? Three infestors use their parasites, the others all forget how? Not intuitive. Also doesn't change the Mothership NP weakness, which is possibly what they're targeting here.
topoulo
Profile Joined September 2011
253 Posts
September 15 2011 12:18 GMT
#8326
I dont see why the infestor nerf , honestly

In pro tournaments terran just dominates , the tvp matches are less than 35% now and zerg getting near 60% winrate for terrans

Does anyone have a doubht that a terran player will win the dreamhack , mlg and the upcoming gsl?

I can bet you right now that if any descent terran is into code a will prolly win that too

Yet the terran nerfs are mldly to zero , the 5 sec bunker rush is a joke and the helion nerf only affects early tvt.


Gimping infestors beyone belief and the ration in tvz will start be more than 60% for terrans while the protoss " buffs" will do nothing vs 1-1-1 or the late 10 barracs + ghosts push

It might help pvz - prolly a lot so zerg will be even less representantive than toss sooner after this joke of a patch comes out - but it wont do nothing to stop terran domination

If blizzard care for the game and not their fanbase it would have nerfed the mules and emp long ago , i guess they dont

its not suprising why lol finals have 1 million viewers , it feels much more competitive and balance



ps its obviously that forgetting counters to infestors only proves bias or too many golden leagues or cheesers here

Emp totally destroys infestors since its instah and has more range + stealth . I havent seen the best terran players for some months now loosing to any zerg actually they can win pretty easy in macro games as well and spare me its not because they have more skill

As for toss theres this ability called feedback ,

Recently the only stream i watch is liquidhero's one - which i think its by far the most promising toss player now - and owns zerg with feedback + collosus archons set up.

No doubt protoss needs buffs but nerfing zerg only makes terrans stronger
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 15 2011 12:32 GMT
#8327
i read your entire post, but feel it is illogical to say that nerfing zergs make terran stronger
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
topoulo
Profile Joined September 2011
253 Posts
September 15 2011 12:47 GMT
#8328
On September 15 2011 21:32 Bill Murray wrote:
i read your entire post, but feel it is illogical to say that nerfing zergs make terran stronger


Nerfing the already inferior race - zerg compare to T least stats wise - what the superior race will be ?

Lorizean
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany1330 Posts
September 15 2011 12:51 GMT
#8329
On September 15 2011 21:32 Bill Murray wrote:
i read your entire post, but feel it is illogical to say that nerfing zergs make terran stronger

I haven't read the post and I'm not really qualified to contribute to the discussion, but obviously nerfing one Race makes the other races (relatively speaking) stronger (strength is a relative term in Starcraft 2)
shizna
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom803 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 13:07:40
September 15 2011 13:04 GMT
#8330
might as well change neural parasite so that it only works on immortals...

and then make immortals massive in the next patch.
mibuokami
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia12 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 13:10:12
September 15 2011 13:09 GMT
#8331
1. Curroptors are too too terrible!
2. Infestors are too too good!!

Solution:
Give NP to the Corruptors!!!

Problem solved... right??? =D
MCDayC
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom14464 Posts
September 15 2011 13:30 GMT
#8332
On September 15 2011 22:09 mibuokami wrote:
1. Curroptors are too too terrible!
2. Infestors are too too good!!

Solution:
Give NP to the Corruptors!!!

Problem solved... right??? =D

Sounds good!
In all seriousness, corruptors just need an effective anti ground spell so when they are still useful when they have swept all the colossus.
VERY FRAGILE, LIKE A BABY PANDA EGG
the p00n
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands615 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 13:31:02
September 15 2011 13:30 GMT
#8333
On September 15 2011 21:03 Harrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 20:52 DisaFear wrote:
Haven't been keeping up with the thread
Why not make there a limit to the number of massive units that can be NP'ed at any given time. Someone has probably mentioned this though

Anywhere between 1 to 3 sounds fine


How would this make sense? Three infestors use their parasites, the others all forget how? Not intuitive


Yes this shouldn't be implemented, it's not realistic. When I look out of my window, I always see people running about in despair because 7'0 zealots and mechanical spiders are chasing them, and when I turn on the tv, all I see are Ultralisks trampling towns.

If only my car was massive; I hate having it picked up by those pesky airplanes.

+ Show Spoiler +
A balance change doesn't -have- to make sense, we are playing a videogame here, not trying to emulate a real-world environment
RainF4ll
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria11 Posts
September 15 2011 13:34 GMT
#8334
The Infestor is a good and interesting unit and makes PvZ much more exciting. Grubby destroyed Destiny with his HT micro. I really love the idea that a weaker player like Grubby is able to beat Infestors while "good" player like HUK and Puzzle are losing. The ability to micro should be rewarded in this game. And now Blizzard is destroying this interesting matchup before it was able to shine.
If they would increase the Feedback range even bad player could handle Infestors. It would also help versus Ghosts. They should buff Toss. A Zerg nerf is just wrong.
mibuokami
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia12 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 13:41:12
September 15 2011 13:40 GMT
#8335
On September 15 2011 22:30 MCDayC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 22:09 mibuokami wrote:
1. Curroptors are too too terrible!
2. Infestors are too too good!!

Solution:
Give NP to the Corruptors!!!

Problem solved... right??? =D

Sounds good!
In all seriousness, corruptors just need an effective anti ground spell so when they are still useful when they have swept all the colossus.


I know, it sounds great doesn't it? They should definitely get NP. I mean they're called Corruptors! Neural Parasite 'corrupts' the mind or something and make good guys do bad thingy!

Oh gosh they can even rename NP to make is more corrupy... maybe they can call the skill Corruption or something.... Neural Corruption!!!

Come on man! They already have the per-requisite tentacles! Do it Blizz, Corruptors needs love too!

ABagOfFritos
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada454 Posts
September 15 2011 13:40 GMT
#8336
On September 15 2011 22:34 RainF4ll wrote:
The Infestor is a good and interesting unit and makes PvZ much more exciting. Grubby destroyed Destiny with his HT micro. I really love the idea that a weaker player like Grubby is able to beat Infestors while "good" player like HUK and Puzzle are losing. The ability to micro should be rewarded in this game. And now Blizzard is destroying this interesting matchup before it was able to shine.
If they would increase the Feedback range even bad player could handle Infestors. It would also help versus Ghosts. They should buff Toss. A Zerg nerf is just wrong.

A toss buff is also ridiculous. Terran needs to be nerfed while Zerg needs to be buffed, if these are done right, the game will see balance. Protoss is the middleground that needs to be reached with the other two.
mibuokami
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia12 Posts
September 15 2011 13:42 GMT
#8337
On September 15 2011 22:40 ABagOfFritos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 22:34 RainF4ll wrote:
The Infestor is a good and interesting unit and makes PvZ much more exciting. Grubby destroyed Destiny with his HT micro. I really love the idea that a weaker player like Grubby is able to beat Infestors while "good" player like HUK and Puzzle are losing. The ability to micro should be rewarded in this game. And now Blizzard is destroying this interesting matchup before it was able to shine.
If they would increase the Feedback range even bad player could handle Infestors. It would also help versus Ghosts. They should buff Toss. A Zerg nerf is just wrong.

A toss buff is also ridiculous. Terran needs to be nerfed while Zerg needs to be buffed, if these are done right, the game will see balance. Protoss is the middleground that needs to be reached with the other two.


I'd rather they make P & Z more like T =(

More options = better game to watch.
Cibron
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden253 Posts
September 15 2011 13:42 GMT
#8338
Among the non-balance changes i found

"SCVs can no longer repair themselves while inside a Bunker or Medivac."

This is acutally quite a big nerf when it comes to bunker rushes - I've had my scv self-heal inside bunkers plenty of times.
ZOMGY (¬O_o)¬ || BeastyQQ FTW!! ||
ABagOfFritos
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada454 Posts
September 15 2011 13:43 GMT
#8339
On September 15 2011 22:42 mibuokami wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 22:40 ABagOfFritos wrote:
On September 15 2011 22:34 RainF4ll wrote:
The Infestor is a good and interesting unit and makes PvZ much more exciting. Grubby destroyed Destiny with his HT micro. I really love the idea that a weaker player like Grubby is able to beat Infestors while "good" player like HUK and Puzzle are losing. The ability to micro should be rewarded in this game. And now Blizzard is destroying this interesting matchup before it was able to shine.
If they would increase the Feedback range even bad player could handle Infestors. It would also help versus Ghosts. They should buff Toss. A Zerg nerf is just wrong.

A toss buff is also ridiculous. Terran needs to be nerfed while Zerg needs to be buffed, if these are done right, the game will see balance. Protoss is the middleground that needs to be reached with the other two.


I'd rather they make P & Z more like T =(

More options = better game to watch.

Options are different than balance, and will likely come with the expansions. For now it is more important to focus on the balance, so that when these expansions do arrive and more imbalances emerge, they are easier to work with.
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
September 15 2011 13:49 GMT
#8340
On September 15 2011 22:42 Cibron wrote:
Among the non-balance changes i found

"SCVs can no longer repair themselves while inside a Bunker or Medivac."

This is acutally quite a big nerf when it comes to bunker rushes - I've had my scv self-heal inside bunkers plenty of times.

that will also ruin thorzain's scv-viking dropplay =(
Prev 1 415 416 417 418 419 453 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#61
WardiTV405
Rex80
TKL 18
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Reynor 294
ProTech119
Harstem 97
Rex 80
TKL 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 41257
Sea 9311
Calm 8148
Horang2 1675
Jaedong 819
Soma 442
EffOrt 424
Stork 361
Light 263
Larva 231
[ Show more ]
Pusan 176
Zeus 153
ZerO 122
Killer 112
Rush 100
Mind 81
ToSsGirL 67
scan(afreeca) 56
Sea.KH 50
yabsab 39
Liquid`Ret 34
Icarus 25
Hm[arnc] 15
Noble 15
ivOry 9
NaDa 5
Dota 2
Dendi396
XcaliburYe138
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1788
shoxiejesuss841
x6flipin662
zeus560
allub168
oskar95
Other Games
B2W.Neo680
Pyrionflax410
crisheroes307
Fuzer 296
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream13022
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream2137
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 90
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1517
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
4h 31m
Replay Cast
10h 31m
ChoboTeamLeague
12h 31m
WardiTV Korean Royale
23h 31m
BSL: GosuLeague
1d 8h
The PondCast
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
IPSL
5 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
IPSL
6 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.