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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:36 me_viet wrote: + Spore Crawlers and Spine Crawlers now disable their Stop button when rooting. Does this mean if I plant my Spine in the wrong spot, I have to wait the full 12 seconds before being able to reposition? Well in BW they didn't move at all. ^_^ | ||
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Megiddosc
United States966 Posts
On September 09 2011 15:55 David451 wrote: As a former random player, now terran player, I have to say I'm pretty happy with this patch, it definitely moves things in the right direction. Not convinced it will fix all balance issues, but overall I think it nerfs Terran more than anyone else (necessary), buffs Protoss more than anyone (necessary), and only nerfs Zerg slightly (offset by Terran nerfs). This NP nerf out of nowhere kind of made me forget all the other stuff from the patch. The only Terran nerf I can recall is that BFH is only +5 dmg and Barracks build 5 seconds slower. Certainly there are more nerfs to Terran that I simply can't recall at this point? There must be for you to say something like "it nerfs Terran more than anyone else". | ||
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wats0n
United States509 Posts
Hero against Sirius in the Code A qualifiers shift que'd feedbacks and basically one-shotted entire groups of infestors. It was disgusting. | ||
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TheDraken
United States640 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:36 Loodah wrote: Do zergs honestly still think PvZ is balanced? Fungal makes protoss micro irrelavent - and protoss units without good micro are actually laughably bad. That alone breaks the matchup - Forget that infestors have insane dps and that neural parasite could control our only cost effective units in the game for the duration of the fight. Just the fact that my units are clumped up and not in a concave make the unit silly. I was actually afraid that this patch was a huge buff for zerg against toss because of the upgrades fix for neural parasite. That would completely break PvZ as it would almost give you an incentive not to get upgrades as protoss.... 1.) All zergs admit PvZ is broken. But PvT is also broken. So it's likely a reason to buff toss, not nerf zerg. 2.) If you're worried about units being clumped up, that's something you'll have to actually prevent yourself *gasp*. Ask any zerg how to engage in a concave or multiprong... it's something we've had to do since the dawn of time. 3.) Want a huge tip that is super irritating to a zerg that uses infestors? Make 4 or 5 phoenixes. Come in at an angle when your death ball engages and start lifting infestors with ALL of your phoenixes. 9 times out of 10 infestors are the only anti air zerg will have against a colossus death ball with the current metagame. It's horribly irritating to have to waste fungals on something other than the death ball, and with phoenixes a lot of times the fungal hits too late and they can still lift the infestors. All in all phoenixes are extremely good in small numbers for PvZ for just about everything. | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:46 Medrea wrote: Well one ultra anyway. But yeah I don't really see that very often. Good point though, 4 ways to mitigate forcefields. I know right? FFs are practically useless! | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:46 Amui wrote: NP should not work on motherships. The rest of the protoss arsenal is fair game in my opinion. The only change I would make is for feedback to cancel neural parasite. It gives protoss a way to recover stolen colossi without suicidally blinking stalkers in to snipe the infestors. Feedback: Now interrupts spellcasting? Hmmmm. Interesting. | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
All zergs admit PvZ is broken. Not IdrA! He still things PvZ is broken in P favour. <3 | ||
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Loodah
335 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:43 Zelniq wrote: let me be clear, i was only implying how stupid it is to do that change w/o any other changes. I do think there are issues right now zvp overall especially with infestors. The fungal nerf does help somewhat, but really neural not working on Massive units is just a silly way to try to fix them, when there are surely better methods than simply removing so many possibilities/options from the game which is what this change does Why? The idea that the zerg can steal the only good dps units that protoss have is silly. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:48 nvs. wrote: Not IdrA! He still things PvZ is broken in P favour. <3 He made a good point though which is that fungal should have been a slow instead of an all out root. Then again he also thought it should be castable while burrowed, which is crazy. | ||
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khazgore
Norway104 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:48 nvs. wrote: Not IdrA! He still things PvZ is broken in P favour. <3 To say "all x admit y" is pretty fallacious regardless. | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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emart
United States2 Posts
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:50 khazgore wrote: i am really glad that neutral parasite wont work against massive units anymore!! finaly i dont have to go tanks,marine medivac every game against zerg... i can finaly go thor,hellion marine again which i love :D:D I think infestor roach plays against that really well anyway. | ||
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esaul17
Canada547 Posts
I feel like this is practically the same as if you nerfed vikings to no longer be able to target air though. Sure you COULD use them as a ground unit, but why in the world would you want to? Besides grabbing a couple templar to storm or nabbing a tank for a second before the other 15 blast the infestor to pieces, I feel like Z players just won't touch neural anymore. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:51 zul wrote: Blizzard starts to sing a song: "they see me trolling, they`re hatin ..." If neural stays this way, I would like to hear how zerg is supposed to take a fight vs. mass collosus, or a terran mech army with thors on the front. I still dont know where the problem with infestor in general is. He still has energy and therefore can be feedbacked and EMPed. If you get the neural off before either one of those lands the tentacle will still land and youll have complete control for full duration. And colossus are what corruptors are for and plays well with a broodlord transition. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:44 Sajaki wrote: I love how you mention that its ridiculous for zerg to have to tech to tier two to have to beat protoss' tier two, when protoss of all races has to tech to tier THREE (Colossus tier three not two!) to beat other races tier 1 - 1.5! If this "tier" nonsense is to have any meaning at all, Colossi are tier 2. Claiming that they are "tier 3 just like brood lords" when the tech costs about half as much and takes about half the time to build is just dumb. | ||
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wats0n
United States509 Posts
I think in the natural evolution of the game protoss would easily figure out how to beat infestors. If you watched Code A qualifiers you would see Hero come from behind with less bases and beat Sirius just with templars versus infestors. Templars counter infestors. As a protoss player, I want to see TvP balanced. I feel PvZ can work itself out in time. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:54 Mindcrime wrote: If this "tier" nonsense is to have any meaning at all, Colossi are tier 2. Claiming that they are "tier 3 just like brood lords" when the tech costs about half as much and takes about half the time to build is just dumb. Fortunately this tier nonsense is just that, compelte nonsense. It's just simply not how starcraft functions. | ||
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VictuM
United Arab Emirates4 Posts
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