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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 283

Forum Index > Closed
9040 CommentsPost a Reply
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
tomnov
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Israel148 Posts
September 09 2011 07:26 GMT
#5641
Infestor’s Neural Parasite can no longer target Massive units.


WTF??

User was warned for this post
I reject your reality and substitute my own
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 09 2011 07:28 GMT
#5642
On September 09 2011 16:25 Serpico wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 16:21 qui wrote:
Disregarding the balance issue for the purpose of discussion:

NP was one of the few "cool" things about the Zerg was which before even this change felt incomplete.

They acknowledged that corrupters are lame and boring but this change means Z will have to get a large number of them to deal with the massive units that NP helped against.

Where is the sense in this?

I know personally as a Z player unless I see a decent amount of immortals with sentry backup, I will not research NP.

Which is a shame, because it's fun but still counterable.

The sense is giving you more incentive to buy HOTS I guess, I dont really know. They call the corruptor boring and not fun, but force you to use it. I agree with those sentiments.


I dont really get the whole "boring and not fun unit" thing. Its an RTS?

Either way, the infestor was becoming the one and only one unit zerg needed particularly in ZvP. Big units could be neuraled and small units fungaled. There ya go, a shut down protoss. They clearly want corruptors to be the proper response to colossus rather than more infestors.

Besides whats so boring about corruptors? They even have a spell dammit! Thats more than I can say about a lot of units.
twitch.tv/medrea
Licmyobelisk
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Philippines3682 Posts
September 09 2011 07:29 GMT
#5643
is it me or the game is getting boring ?
I don't think I've ever wished my opponent good luck prior to a game. When I play, I play to win. I hope every opponent I ever have is cursed with fucking terrible luck. I hope they're stuck playing underneath a stepladder with a black cat in attendance a
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 07:33:14
September 09 2011 07:30 GMT
#5644
On September 09 2011 16:13 Zelniq wrote:
Rest assured, this change will never get past PTR. Because we can all sleep soundly with the knowledge that Blizzard has never made a poor balance or design decision. I mean it's not like they just proposed that Neural no longer works on Massive units without any other changes.


No. I don't prefer a 2-food unit to counter a 6- or even an 8-food unit.
If protoss gets f'ed up with KA, then we need something in return. NP is fine.
nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
September 09 2011 07:30 GMT
#5645
On September 09 2011 16:29 Licmyobelisk wrote:
is it me or the game is getting boring ?


Not just you, but that's a topic for another thread.
mistermetal
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada76 Posts
September 09 2011 07:31 GMT
#5646
Simple fix if they just want to fix toss, dont let NP work on mechanical units without a pilot / air units.

then the zerg cant NP Colossus / Sentry / Probe
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 09 2011 07:32 GMT
#5647
On September 09 2011 16:30 darkness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 16:13 Zelniq wrote:
Rest assured, this change will never get past PTR. Because we can all sleep soundly with the knowledge that Blizzard has never made a poor balance or design decision. I mean it's not like they just proposed that Neural no longer works on Massive units without any other changes.


No. I don't prefer a 2-food unit to counter a 6- or even an 8-food unit.
If protoss gets f'ed up with KA, then we need something return. NP is fine.


Honestly I thought a change to infested terran was a bit more needed than NP but I am sure Blizzard considered that and found that this was the best way for zergs to be forced to consider protoss unit comp.
twitch.tv/medrea
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 07:33:38
September 09 2011 07:32 GMT
#5648
On September 09 2011 16:31 mistermetal wrote:
Simple fix if they just want to fix toss, dont let NP work on mechanical units without a pilot / air units.

then the zerg cant NP Colossus / Sentry / Probe


I've actually always thought it stupid that NP worked on my colossi, for that exact reason.

But I still hope they come to their senses and revert this in favour of something else.
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
September 09 2011 07:33 GMT
#5649
On September 09 2011 16:28 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 16:25 Serpico wrote:
On September 09 2011 16:21 qui wrote:
Disregarding the balance issue for the purpose of discussion:

NP was one of the few "cool" things about the Zerg was which before even this change felt incomplete.

They acknowledged that corrupters are lame and boring but this change means Z will have to get a large number of them to deal with the massive units that NP helped against.

Where is the sense in this?

I know personally as a Z player unless I see a decent amount of immortals with sentry backup, I will not research NP.

Which is a shame, because it's fun but still counterable.

The sense is giving you more incentive to buy HOTS I guess, I dont really know. They call the corruptor boring and not fun, but force you to use it. I agree with those sentiments.


I dont really get the whole "boring and not fun unit" thing. Its an RTS?

Either way, the infestor was becoming the one and only one unit zerg needed particularly in ZvP. Big units could be neuraled and small units fungaled. There ya go, a shut down protoss. They clearly want corruptors to be the proper response to colossus rather than more infestors.

Besides whats so boring about corruptors? They even have a spell dammit! Thats more than I can say about a lot of units.


They're slow with a short range and are completely uninteresting like the overseer.
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 09 2011 07:33 GMT
#5650
On September 09 2011 16:31 mistermetal wrote:
Simple fix if they just want to fix toss, dont let NP work on mechanical units without a pilot / air units.

then the zerg cant NP Colossus / Sentry / Probe


Thats a little tricky to think about. The flag list at the bottom of every unit doesnt denote a pilot or anything like that.
twitch.tv/medrea
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
September 09 2011 07:34 GMT
#5651
So whats the point of FRENZY ability on the ultra now? Cant get slowed by fungal/conc anymore? Heh, not being np'able made it a special unit in zvz.

Also not nping massive units is pretty silly in zvp, Cant even get archons now? Good protoss are already using blink stalkers and clever positioning to kill infestors or they micro their collosus to target infestors. They are armored afterall and pretty squishy.

Neural in zvt was pretty cool as well because its was a way to kill thor/mech heavy armys without committing to broodlords. Now there will be less options available in the late game. Ghosts are already strong enough to fight with infestors so its not like there was a problem there.
Pillage
Profile Joined July 2011
United States804 Posts
September 09 2011 07:34 GMT
#5652
Rest assured, this change will never get past PTR. Because we can all sleep soundly with the knowledge that Blizzard has never made a poor balance or design decision. I mean it's not like they just proposed that Neural no longer works on Massive units without any other changes.


Yeah my brain also tells me that this change won't go through. Still seeing ridiculous suggestions like this always scares me. Zerg needs the versatility the infestor provides just because the race as of right now is incomplete. It's not balanced in an ideal sense, but for the time being it is balanced.
"Power has no limits." -Tiberius
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
September 09 2011 07:34 GMT
#5653
On September 09 2011 16:33 Serpico wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 16:28 Medrea wrote:
On September 09 2011 16:25 Serpico wrote:
On September 09 2011 16:21 qui wrote:
Disregarding the balance issue for the purpose of discussion:

NP was one of the few "cool" things about the Zerg was which before even this change felt incomplete.

They acknowledged that corrupters are lame and boring but this change means Z will have to get a large number of them to deal with the massive units that NP helped against.

Where is the sense in this?

I know personally as a Z player unless I see a decent amount of immortals with sentry backup, I will not research NP.

Which is a shame, because it's fun but still counterable.

The sense is giving you more incentive to buy HOTS I guess, I dont really know. They call the corruptor boring and not fun, but force you to use it. I agree with those sentiments.


I dont really get the whole "boring and not fun unit" thing. Its an RTS?

Either way, the infestor was becoming the one and only one unit zerg needed particularly in ZvP. Big units could be neuraled and small units fungaled. There ya go, a shut down protoss. They clearly want corruptors to be the proper response to colossus rather than more infestors.

Besides whats so boring about corruptors? They even have a spell dammit! Thats more than I can say about a lot of units.


They're slow with a short range and are completely uninteresting like the overseer.


Goodness me. I can apply that sentence to like over half the units in the game!
twitch.tv/medrea
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
September 09 2011 07:34 GMT
#5654
Oh my, Infestors don't counter every single unit now? Rejoice.
Revolutionist fan
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
September 09 2011 07:34 GMT
#5655
On September 09 2011 16:21 Zelniq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 16:13 makk wrote:
Ok so does NP actually have a use now? I would say snipe vs massive units is a bigger issue than NP...

yes to be fair they're still going to always be useful vs void rays, situationally vs phoenixes/vikings/tanks/spellcasters. of course most of these units can kind of defend themselves vs infestors: ghosts, high templar, siege tanks, phoenixes, and to a lesser extent other infestors.

even for cheap units, it's a good way to pull off a BM maneuver!


Indeed. Until they nerf my "neural parasite > /dance command > opponent rages and makes a mistake" strategy I can't complain.
Hikari
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
1914 Posts
September 09 2011 07:35 GMT
#5656
Zerg will have trouble against mass thors.
I wonder how blizzard will respond to the high number of terrans in GSL - I suspect there will be more changes other than BFH nerf.


tbh there are more things for toss to worry about other than NP on colossi, other tools such as baneling carpet bombs then running in roaches to snipe colossi and corruptors are still viable. The infestor ling-baneling style is going to take a pretty big hit in ZvP.

I have no problem of having to get corruptors vs colossi: the corruptors aren't waste/just sitting there: some day they will become a broodlord.
TheSilverfox
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden1928 Posts
September 09 2011 07:36 GMT
#5657
On September 09 2011 16:18 koji150 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 15:34 TheSilverfox wrote:
As I Protoss I cannot deny that I like the NP change but to be fair I would rather see that the change only was on Massive air units.

That way Carriers, Battlecruisers, Mothership and Brood Lords could not be NP. The spell would still be good against Thors and Colossus but not on the giant air units.

+ It would also make sense regarding the game/lore. I have always thought it is kind of stupid that a small Infestor can NP a giant Mothership.

I think this would be a fair trade but Colossi are counted as air so they would be on the non-NP list. However that would allow Thors and Archons, which would help keep the PvZ balance while not making TvZ overpowered.


No, Colossi har considered a ground unit but can be hit by air units.

What is important to remember here is that NP also get a small buff in this patch. It could actually be considered a bug fix - but you will benefit from all the upgrades from the NP unit.

This may be a reason why Blizzard changed the NP for massive units in this PTR. Often a Protoss (or Terran) would have a lot of attack upgrades to make the Colossus stronger. Without this change zergs would benefit from a +3 attack from the Colossus.

Personally I think this may be a bit drastical, but I understand how Blizzard thinks about it. I would still prefer it to only be changed on massive air units, especially now that they also benefit from the attack upgrades.
Also known as Joinsimon on Twitter/Reddit
Loodah
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
335 Posts
September 09 2011 07:36 GMT
#5658
Do zergs honestly still think PvZ is balanced? Fungal makes protoss micro irrelavent - and protoss units without good micro are actually laughably bad. That alone breaks the matchup -

Forget that infestors have insane dps and that neural parasite could control our only cost effective units in the game for the duration of the fight. Just the fact that my units are clumped up and not in a concave make the unit silly.

I was actually afraid that this patch was a huge buff for zerg against toss because of the upgrades fix for neural parasite. That would completely break PvZ as it would almost give you an incentive not to get upgrades as protoss....
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
September 09 2011 07:36 GMT
#5659
On September 09 2011 16:34 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 16:33 Serpico wrote:
On September 09 2011 16:28 Medrea wrote:
On September 09 2011 16:25 Serpico wrote:
On September 09 2011 16:21 qui wrote:
Disregarding the balance issue for the purpose of discussion:

NP was one of the few "cool" things about the Zerg was which before even this change felt incomplete.

They acknowledged that corrupters are lame and boring but this change means Z will have to get a large number of them to deal with the massive units that NP helped against.

Where is the sense in this?

I know personally as a Z player unless I see a decent amount of immortals with sentry backup, I will not research NP.

Which is a shame, because it's fun but still counterable.

The sense is giving you more incentive to buy HOTS I guess, I dont really know. They call the corruptor boring and not fun, but force you to use it. I agree with those sentiments.


I dont really get the whole "boring and not fun unit" thing. Its an RTS?

Either way, the infestor was becoming the one and only one unit zerg needed particularly in ZvP. Big units could be neuraled and small units fungaled. There ya go, a shut down protoss. They clearly want corruptors to be the proper response to colossus rather than more infestors.

Besides whats so boring about corruptors? They even have a spell dammit! Thats more than I can say about a lot of units.


They're slow with a short range and are completely uninteresting like the overseer.


Goodness me. I can apply that sentence to like over half the units in the game!

and yet blizzard is only talking about changing those two in regards to being boring, goodness me!
me_viet
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia1350 Posts
September 09 2011 07:36 GMT
#5660
+ Spore Crawlers and Spine Crawlers now disable their Stop button when rooting.

Does this mean if I plant my Spine in the wrong spot, I have to wait the full 12 seconds before being able to reposition?
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