EPTOn September 09 2011 15:39 gruff wrote:
I'd be fine with that. Who uses those units anyway?
I'd be fine with that. Who uses those units anyway?
They are not used because players know that they will immediately have NP cast on them.
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 282
| Forum Index > Closed |
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
|
arto
United States59 Posts
They are not used because players know that they will immediately have NP cast on them. | ||
|
kithuni
United States5 Posts
| ||
|
blacklist_member
Australia318 Posts
| ||
|
emc
United States3088 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:00 blacklist_member wrote: I'm cool with the NP change, specially for Protoss, the core strength of their army stays in the few massive units they have... getting NPed is just too OP yeah but I bet that still won't even fix the issue. The real abuse is from fungal and infested terrans and NP was only really used in ZvT against mass thor and mech. I think this is really going to hurt ZvT more than help PvZ, infestors are still going to be a problem in PvZ but will be even weaker in ZvT. | ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
EDIT: Right, tanks. ZvT is not my forte. But even so. I hated having my colossi NP'd as much as the next toss, but this makes the spell totally useless. NP certainly wasn't the biggest problem with the infestor, and even if it was, outright removing the spell - because they may as well have just been honest and done that instead - is not the way to balance it. However, the side-effect of this I do agree with is that the mothership can't be NP'd. I feel like they should just set that specifically. | ||
|
TheRidd
713 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:05 Belisarius wrote: I'm toss, and the NP thing is pretty lol-worthy. In how many situations are non-massive units worth NPing? Practically zero. Void rays, maybe templar if you have like 17 times the apm of your opponent. That's pretty much it. I hated having my colossi NP'd as much as the next toss, but this makes the spell totally useless. NP certainly wasn't the biggest problem with the infestor, and even if it was, outright removing the spell - because they may as well have just been honest and done that instead - is not the way to balance it. However, the side-effect of this I do agree with is that the mothership can't be NP'd. I feel like they should just set that specifically. Are siege tanks massive ? | ||
|
makk
United Kingdom132 Posts
| ||
|
Loodah
335 Posts
But for those of you saying this won't fix any issues, you're wrong. NP allowed zerg to literally max on infestors and lings and beat a fully upgraded protoss army quite easily even at 200/200. A zerg with 10--15 infestors simply could not lose any engagement. Once broods and cracklings or ultras got involved, it was actually laughable. Still fungal growth will be incredibly powerful in the matchup, but at least now zergs can't win with ONLY infestors. Not sure why zergs are complaining - they got a blink nerf and a blue flame hellion nerf. WTF else is there to complain about as zerg? Maybe ghosts could use a nerf - in both PvT and ZvT - other than that Blizzard is doing an excellent job. | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
| ||
|
Tppz!
Germany1449 Posts
No they arent. I think Blizz got fed up with this Infestor only Style like they were fed upü with Thorheavy armies. It wont change TvZ a lot but I think it has some impact to PvZ | ||
|
BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
| ||
|
JiYan
United States3668 Posts
| ||
|
Skamtet
Canada634 Posts
*puts on sunglasses* was a massive change. YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH | ||
|
koji150
United States1 Post
On September 09 2011 15:34 TheSilverfox wrote: As I Protoss I cannot deny that I like the NP change but to be fair I would rather see that the change only was on Massive air units. That way Carriers, Battlecruisers, Mothership and Brood Lords could not be NP. The spell would still be good against Thors and Colossus but not on the giant air units. + It would also make sense regarding the game/lore. I have always thought it is kind of stupid that a small Infestor can NP a giant Mothership. I think this would be a fair trade but Colossi are counted as air so they would be on the non-NP list. However that would allow Thors and Archons, which would help keep the PvZ balance while not making TvZ overpowered. | ||
|
akaname
United Kingdom599 Posts
On September 09 2011 14:41 darkness wrote: I'm happy I won't be afraid of colossi getting stomped because of NP. However, I'm sure this NP change will be removed because zergs are such whiners. My aim isn't to piss anyone off, but it's proven that whine brings good things to Zerg (infestor buff before for example). Post hoc ergo propter hoc! | ||
|
qui
United Kingdom36 Posts
NP was one of the few "cool" things about the Zerg was which before even this change felt incomplete. They acknowledged that corrupters are lame and boring but this change means Z will have to get a large number of them to deal with the massive units that NP helped against. Where is the sense in this? I know personally as a Z player unless I see a decent amount of immortals with sentry backup, I will not research NP. Which is a shame, because it's fun but still counterable. | ||
|
SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:13 Zelniq wrote: Rest assured, this change will never get past PTR. Because we can all sleep soundly with the knowledge that Blizzard has never made a poor balance or design decision. I mean it's not like they just proposed that Neural no longer works on Massive units without any other changes. I said the same exact thing about the KA upgrade Sarcasm is strong with this one | ||
|
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:13 makk wrote: Ok so does NP actually have a use now? I would say snipe vs massive units is a bigger issue than NP... yes to be fair they're still going to always be useful vs void rays, situationally vs phoenixes/vikings/tanks/spellcasters. of course most of these units can kind of defend themselves vs infestors: ghosts, high templar, siege tanks, phoenixes, and to a lesser extent other infestors. even for cheap units, it's a good way to pull off a BM maneuver! | ||
|
Medrea
10003 Posts
But no ghost changes? Adjustments to the ghost are needed so much its unbelievable. EDIT: I also just found out they fixed the high ground broodlord bug. | ||
|
Serpico
4285 Posts
On September 09 2011 16:21 qui wrote: Disregarding the balance issue for the purpose of discussion: NP was one of the few "cool" things about the Zerg was which before even this change felt incomplete. They acknowledged that corrupters are lame and boring but this change means Z will have to get a large number of them to deal with the massive units that NP helped against. Where is the sense in this? I know personally as a Z player unless I see a decent amount of immortals with sentry backup, I will not research NP. Which is a shame, because it's fun but still counterable. The sense is giving you more incentive to buy HOTS I guess, I dont really know. They call the corruptor boring and not fun, but force you to use it. I agree with those sentiments. | ||
| ||
