EPTNothing more, nothing less. LoL might be fun to play, so is HoN, yeh, but DotA is still THE archtype for how to really make it right.
What do people expect from DotA2 - Page 3
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
Nothing more, nothing less. LoL might be fun to play, so is HoN, yeh, but DotA is still THE archtype for how to really make it right. | ||
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EtherealBlade
660 Posts
On August 19 2011 06:16 BadgerBadger8264 wrote: Lol, such a ridiculously biased story that's out to put RIOT in a bad light and icefrog in a good one, you expect me to take that seriously? Hijacking the site? You mean he took down his own DotA site because he no longer wanted to support the DotA community, and he gave his reason for that. Hardly hijacking. And please, tell me where LoL promised "DotA with reconnect", because they've never once stated it'd be a complete DotA clone, and it hasn't been. Not even close. They made a beginner-friendly DotA style game that removed a lot of hard parts of DotA. Sure, DotA's popularity has probably helped boost LoL's popularity, but it's painfully obvious that was far from (read: probably 5-10%) of the people that actually played LoL. Otherwise HoN would've been much, much more succesful. Honestly, the fact that you're even trying to take away from their accomplishments makes you, at best, really childish. That is not a biased story. That is how it went, you can ask anybody about it, I can also clearly remember those days. It was a massive upset and everyone started hating on Pendragon, something that continues to this day and is the original source of the Dota-LoL enmity, the other significant claim being that LoL is a "dumbed down dota". If you want another biased story I suggest you seek out the Abdul Ismail letter claiming how IceFrog is an Arab sociopath. Useless e-drama but you can guess who benefitted from it. He didn't hijack it because it was his own site? Maybe. It wasn't just his site by then but a million other dota supporters. But I still believe what he has done is disgusting. The correct way to have done it would be to make a thread in the general forums about LoL, or maybe post it in the news, but definitely not take down the site explaining how dota ends today and tomorrow it's LoL time. Also LoL has obviously outgrown the numbers by now that it has syphoned out of dota, but you really have to see that the attention they gained from the established dota scene helped them start out. On August 19 2011 06:22 Kuni wrote: I expect it to be like DotA1 in every aspect of the game with an up-to-date UI and Interface, also including many additional features which can be used for good purposes making it easier accessible regarding the topic e-sports in general. Nothing more, nothing less. LoL might be fun to play, so is HoN, yeh, but DotA is still THE archtype for how to really make it right. I can totally agree with that. | ||
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BeanerBurrito
1010 Posts
he simultaneously closed down the dota-allstars forum, then complained that valve is copyrighting the name dota, and his reasoning was "because dota belongs to the community..." the community whose forum he shut down that is something that is true and unbiased that happened that seems to line up with him wanting league of legends to gain popularity as described in that article from pendragon's letter on the dota-allstars site - "The website will be offline for the next week or so while the database is moved to its new permanent home where its contents will remain archived and available to the public for the sake of historical preservation. In the meantime, I hope some of you will join me and over 3 million other players for a game of League of Legends (it’s free!)" | ||
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TheWarbler
United States1659 Posts
On August 18 2011 23:15 BadgerBadger8264 wrote: How are they living off of other peoples work? Icefrog didn't make DotA. Blizzard first created the DotA genre in Starcraft (in the Aeon of Strife map), Eul created the first DotA and Guinsoo/Pendragon (the creators of LoL) made DotA Allstars. If anything, Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work. Man your fucking retarded, Aeon of Strife was made by a mapper in Starcraft. Then Eul made Dota Allstars one of the MANY VERSIONS OF DOTA that came out for warcraft 3 reign of chaos. All stars was the most successful version. When Frozen throne was released Guinsoo took over for Dota All-stars until Version 6.00 when Nerchio was lead developer and icefrog was second. By vesrion 6.10 Nerchio gave it fully to icefrog and he is the only reason people are playing dota. People stuck to Dota 5.84 until around Dota 6.30 User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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BeanerBurrito
1010 Posts
On August 19 2011 07:53 TheWarbler wrote: Man your fucking retarded, Aeon of Strife was made by a mapper in Starcraft. Then Eul made Dota Allstars one of the MANY VERSIONS OF DOTA that came out for warcraft 3 reign of chaos. All stars was the most successful version. When Frozen throne was released Guinsoo took over for Dota All-stars until Version 6.00 when Nerchio was lead developer and icefrog was second. By vesrion 6.10 Nerchio gave it fully to icefrog and he is the only reason people are playing dota. People stuck to Dota 5.84 until around Dota 6.30 gotta agree, anyone who thinks that icefrog DIDN'T make dota what it is today needs to go back and play the versions of the map that he didn't work on you'll realize real quick that icefrog is dota | ||
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saritenite
Singapore1680 Posts
On August 19 2011 03:24 Fleebenworth wrote: It's not an argument, Icefrog has undoubtedly made DotA what it is today and almost single-handedly transformed it from a fun but imbalanced custom scen on WC3 to a genre of its own which has competitive appeal. As someone who played DotA since the Guinsoo days, I'd say it was already pretty much balanced back then. This was about seven/eight years ago. Icefrog has done much for DotA, yes, but he does not deserve that much credit. I miss the days of v5.84c. | ||
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BadgerBadger8264
Netherlands409 Posts
That is not a biased story. That is how it went, you can ask anybody about it, I can also clearly remember those days. It was a massive upset and everyone started hating on Pendragon, something that continues to this day and is the original source of the Dota-LoL enmity, the other significant claim being that LoL is a "dumbed down dota". Yea, that's not a biased article. Sure. Read it again, while the story might be true it's kind of stupid. It portrays Pendragon/Guinsoo as an evil person because he wants to earn money for doing something they spend a lot of time on. How evil, right? Your boss should write a letter about you, how you won't work for free, because you're so evil and money grabbing. It's also hilariously portraying IceFrog as someone that wants to keep the game free and doesn't want to earn any money. Do you really think a sensible individual is like that? Obviously not, he just had no opportunities to make money. If he did, he'd have jumped on them. It's just, flat out, a bad article that wants to put Guinsoo/Pendragon in a bad light. If you can't see why it's biased, there's no point in arguing with you. And about his site, you realise he's paying money to keep that site up and to maintain it, right? Why should he continue paying to support a community for a game that directly competes with his own project? While it's a bit of a dick move to take the site down and not offer for anyone to take it over, it'd be stupid to keep it running yourself. No, not "nice", flat out stupid. No sensible person would do that, you can't expect him to sacrifice his time and money to support a game that directly competes with himself. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On August 19 2011 08:11 BadgerBadger8264 wrote: Wow at the amount of hostility I get for saying IceFrog wasn't the only person that worked on DotA and saying he wasn't responsible for the success of LoL. Guess that's a testament to the community the game has. I think your biggest problem was saying Blizzard created the genre, which makes anyone reading it doubtfull about how much you really know about what happened. | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
To be honest, im more excited about the features like dota tv and the coaching system than I am of the actual game.  | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On August 19 2011 08:11 BadgerBadger8264 wrote: Wow at the amount of hostility I get for saying IceFrog wasn't the only person that worked on DotA and saying he wasn't responsible for the success of LoL. Guess that's a testament to the community the game has. no, people are offended by this: On August 18 2011 23:15 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:How are they living off of other peoples work? Icefrog didn't make DotA. Blizzard first created the DotA genre in Starcraft (in the Aeon of Strife map), Eul created the first DotA and Guinsoo/Pendragon (the creators of LoL) made DotA Allstars. If anything, Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work. With Dota being first released in 2003 and having Icy take over the project after Guinsoo's retirement in 2005 and developing it ever since, you can hardly compare the measly 2 years of Eul/Guinsoo with Icy's work over 6 years. It's that simple. | ||
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zex66
Canada651 Posts
What the DotA community really needs is a stable client to play DotA on. One that everyone will use over their respective third party p2p client of choice. One that has in game stats similar to what warcraft 3/starcraft 2 have for match making and generally account building. One where replays aren't a pain in the ass to watch because of wc3 limitations and where even finding games won't be a pain in the ass. To all the people asking "is Valve really just porting the game straight from wc3?" they're making the most important changes. People don't want new modes (although there are already a couple in DotA). People don't want a new map (although adding a new one wouldn't change anything, competitive DotA will still happen on the classic map). People want DotA ass DotA, and they want to be able to enjoy it as if it was a 2011 game, and not a 2004 game. | ||
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BadgerBadger8264
Netherlands409 Posts
With Dota being first released in 2003 and having Icy take over the project after Guinsoo's retirement in 2005 and developing it ever since, you can hardly compare the measly 2 years of Eul/Guinsoo with Icy's work over 6 years. It's that simple. Is it so hard for you people to read? Either way, I'll just edit it out as it's seriously derailing this thread. Again, not arguing against the fact that IceFrog made DotA what it is today, and never have. Read the quote, I said "if anything", that means I don't actually think that's the case, but think that case is more likely than what the other person said. I never said Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work. I argued LoL/HoN are not living off of Icefrogs work. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 19 2011 04:29 BeanerBurrito wrote: it kinds of went like, roc dota, then tft dota, then dota allstars, then it was just dota being updated by icefrog all alone for a few years, then suddenly OMG HON OMG LOL OMG DOTA 2 OMG hon and lol are definitely the new kids on the block when it comes to making contributions to DOTA-like games Except that for both HoN and LoL, a significant portion of their staff are various people who had contributed to DotA at some point or other in its history. DotA2 is kinda a "late arrival" to the party, and it's not the only one who has a major contributor to DotA, it does have one of the most prominent contributors though, to its benefit. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On August 19 2011 08:04 saritenite wrote: As someone who played DotA since the Guinsoo days, I'd say it was already pretty much balanced back then. This was about seven/eight years ago. Icefrog has done much for DotA, yes, but he does not deserve that much credit. I miss the days of v5.84c. Guinsoo dota balanced? Wtf man. I could care less for the stupid icefrog vs guinsoo wars but you are totally wrong. | ||
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Shai
Canada806 Posts
HoN's cast times are gimped. Biggest difference. Interrupting non-channelling spells in HoN is much less viable than in DotA. Also, I feel that every hero in DotA is competitively viable - yes, there are even techies games out there. But yes, the main reason I am pumped for DotA 2 is IceFrog is on board, and I've played since 2004. | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On August 19 2011 08:40 BadgerBadger8264 wrote: Is it so hard for you people to read? Either way, I'll just edit it out as its seriously derailing this thread. People just don't seem to grasp the English language here. Questioning other's reading comprehension skills is the most generic form of ad hominem there is. Don't get all high and mighty, lad, and accuse other's for alleged hostility, when it is you attacking. For the record: On August 19 2011 08:11 BadgerBadger8264 wrote: Wow at the amount of hostility I get for saying IceFrog wasn't the only person that worked on DotA and saying he wasn't responsible for the success of LoL. Guess that's a testament to the community the game has. On August 18 2011 23:15 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:How are they living off of other peoples work? Icefrog didn't make DotA. Blizzard first created the DotA genre in Starcraft (in the Aeon of Strife map), Eul created the first DotA and Guinsoo/Pendragon (the creators of LoL) made DotA Allstars. If anything, Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work. If anything, you were not saying "IceFrog wasn't the only person that worked on Dota". Anyone with the very basic reading skills you are demanding, can easily compare what you actually said, namely "Icefrog didn't make DotA" and "Guinsoo/Pendragon (the creators of LoL) made DotA Allstars". That is technically correct and in no way was I criticizing you on that. In fact, I was merely providing perspective on the amount of contribution of each party. I am sure, you could gather that from my post, could you not? Regarding LoL's marketing: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/z9alf.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8b5Sc.png) It is unfortunate, there is no such thing as an archive of past ad campaigns, such as banners, that were displayed on GG.net. I will just state for the record that it created quite an uproar within the DotA community about their aggressive marketing. Anyone interested, could try and contact seasoned GG.net members like YoSnail to ask him about it. I choose to make my stand on it, because a lot of times people ride the train of "horrible DotA community", as an be-all end-all argument. Let it be said, that those who sow the wind will reap the whirlwind, and the indeed existing hostility on certain topics doesn't come out of nothing. | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
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