What do people expect from DotA2

On August 18 2011 22:32 Muki wrote:
I expect DotA2 to kill HoN and force LoL to the 2nd place.
I also expect it to be expensive >.>

On August 18 2011 22:34 MavercK wrote:


keep those comments to yourself
why would you ever wish a company to go under and all those people to lose their jobs.

I don't want them to go under, I want Dota 2 to be more successful which would mean the competition suffers anyway.
Also they are just living off other people's work anyway but that's a long debate.

On August 18 2011 23:15 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:

How are they living off of other peoples work? Icefrog didn't make DotA, Guinsoo/Pendragon (the creators of LoL) made DotA Allstars. If anything, Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work.

On August 18 2011 23:15 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:
Icefrog didn't make DotA, Guinsoo/Pendragon (the creators of LoL) made DotA Allstars. If anything, Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work.

On August 18 2011 23:15 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:

How are they living off of other peoples work? Icefrog didn't make DotA. Blizzard first created the DotA genre in Starcraft (in the Aeon of Strife map), Eul created the first DotA and Guinsoo/Pendragon (the creators of LoL) made DotA Allstars. If anything, Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work.

The game was in a pretty terrible state when Euls, Guinsoo were developing the map. It was terribly imbalanced. It was also nowhere near as popular as it is now until Icefrog started working on the map. Icefrog deserves all the credit for turning DotA into the game it is today.

On August 18 2011 23:30 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:

Still, how are they living off of Icefrog's work? What Icefrog did made DotA more popular, not LoL. It doesn't even come close to catering to the same group of people, and the amount of people going from DotA to LoL isn't really big. It's still stupid to say they "live off of his work". League of Legends earned its spot by itself. Period.

Now HoN is a different story, and you *could* argue there considering it does take a lot of concepts from DotA.

On August 18 2011 23:15 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:

How are they living off of other peoples work? Icefrog didn't make DotA. Blizzard first created the DotA genre in Starcraft (in the Aeon of Strife map), Eul created the first DotA and Guinsoo/Pendragon (the creators of LoL) made DotA Allstars. If anything, Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work.

You said Valve/Icefrog are living off their work. I'm saying Euls, Guinsoo have done little to nothing for DotA in comparison to Icefrog.

On August 18 2011 22:33 Zephirdd wrote:
DotA2 is different from HoN in that

- HoN has toooo many stupid changes ie. giving blink/leap-esque ability to every hero, or creating stupid concepts
- Porting heroes totally differently from DotA(wtf, "The Admiral" became a Gladiator? REALLY?)
- Too flashy graphics(although I could say it can be changed in your Options)

Also, personal dislikes about HoN:
- Small letters and icons - what is the point of an icon if you need bottle-glasses to see it? How the hell am I supposed to read all the words when I'm at a "safe distance" from the screen?
- herpderp microtransactions, but I guess it is a consequence of the f2p model. Still, having only 15+x heroes available at a time sucks.
- "Double Tap"? "Hat Trick"? QUAD KILL? Annihilation kinda saves itself but it is still bad. Bloodlust makes no sense. etc
- Annoying alternate announcers, and lack of UT announcer by itself(which is so awesome).


And that is why, IMO, DotA2>HoN. And I didn't even took matchmaking or other stuff into consideration(also, Steam rulez), because I haven't had the chance to try it out.

On August 19 2011 00:20 lepape wrote:


This message confirms what I thought. Most DotA players who don't enjoy HoN don't like it simply because they can't (or don't want to put the effort to) appreciate any change, not because of the gameplay.

I can understand that, but at least admit it's just a matter of personal preference. The game in itself is of really good quality, the balance is not nearly as bad as anyone pretends it is (even DotA has it's own issues). The new heroes are for the most part well thought and original, sometimes better than original DotA heroes (erm erm.... skeleton king).

If you're used to play Lion for 10 years, a ''Witch Slayer'' might look silly, even if the spells are 1:1. But when you think about it, a generic caster shooting spikes from the ground with a generic red death ray is the worse concept of the two.

On August 18 2011 23:30 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:

Still, how are they living off of Icefrog's work? What Icefrog did made DotA more popular, not LoL. It doesn't even come close to catering to the same group of people, and the amount of people going from DotA to LoL isn't really big. It's still stupid to say they "live off of his work". League of Legends earned its spot by itself. Period.

Now HoN is a different story, and you *could* argue there considering it directly takes a lot of concepts and heroes from DotA. But saying LoL lives off of Icefrog's work is, at best, ridiculous.

On August 19 2011 03:24 Fleebenworth wrote:
It's not an argument, Icefrog has undoubtedly made DotA what it is today and almost single-handedly transformed it from a fun but imbalanced custom scen on WC3 to a genre of its own which has competitive appeal.

On August 19 2011 04:23 lepape wrote:


It's a technical detail, but anyone who worked on a DotA-like map has contributed to make it a genre on it's own.

Without HoN, LoL and other such games, it wouldn't even be a genre. But I get your point, if Icefrog didn't work on DotA, the map probably wouldn't even have the appeal to be developped by other companies.

On August 18 2011 22:28 SKC wrote:
HoN is very diferent from Dota. Have someone that knows nothing about FPS games play both CS 1.6 and Source and he will tell you it's the same game. Ask any good player about it and he will tell you the diferences are huge.

There are also new items, like spellshards, that make a big diference in the way the game is played.

On August 18 2011 22:33 Zephirdd wrote:
DotA2 is different from HoN in that

- HoN has toooo many stupid changes ie. giving blink/leap-esque ability to every hero, or creating stupid concepts
- Porting heroes totally differently from DotA(wtf, "The Admiral" became a Gladiator? REALLY?)
- Too flashy graphics(although I could say it can be changed in your Options)

Also, personal dislikes about HoN:
- Small letters and icons - what is the point of an icon if you need bottle-glasses to see it? How the hell am I supposed to read all the words when I'm at a "safe distance" from the screen?
- herpderp microtransactions, but I guess it is a consequence of the f2p model. Still, having only 15+x heroes available at a time sucks.
- "Double Tap"? "Hat Trick"? QUAD KILL? Annihilation kinda saves itself but it is still bad. Bloodlust makes no sense. etc
- Annoying alternate announcers, and lack of UT announcer by itself(which is so awesome).


And that is why, IMO, DotA2>HoN. And I didn't even took matchmaking or other stuff into consideration(also, Steam rulez), because I haven't had the chance to try it out.

Too many people don't remember for some reason how LoL got it's initial popularity.
This sums up the story pretty well, the second half is interesting:
http://ninjaspartans.blogspot.com/2009/05/league-of-legends-and-dota-controversy.html

Basically LoL started out by hijacking the original DotA Allstars site and drawing attention to their own game. People were promised with a "Dota with reconnect" game and that was enough to get LoL going. If Dota 2 were ready by 2009 then make no mistake, there would be no breathing room for LoL or HoN.

On August 19 2011 06:16 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:

Lol, such a ridiculously biased story that's out to put RIOT in a bad light and icefrog in a good one, you expect me to take that seriously?


Hijacking the site? You mean he took down his own DotA site because he no longer wanted to support the DotA community, and he gave his reason for that. Hardly hijacking.

And please, tell me where LoL promised "DotA with reconnect", because they've never once stated it'd be a complete DotA clone, and it hasn't been. Not even close. They made a beginner-friendly DotA style game that removed a lot of hard parts of DotA.

Sure, DotA's popularity has probably helped boost LoL's popularity, but it's painfully obvious that was far from (read: probably 5-10%) of the people that actually played LoL. Otherwise HoN would've been much, much more succesful. Honestly, the fact that you're even trying to take away from their accomplishments makes you, at best, really childish.

On August 19 2011 06:22 Kuni wrote:
I expect it to be like DotA1 in every aspect of the game with an up-to-date UI and Interface, also including many additional features which can be used for good purposes making it easier accessible regarding the topic e-sports in general.
Nothing more, nothing less. LoL might be fun to play, so is HoN, yeh, but DotA is still THE archtype for how to really make it right.

"The website will be offline for the next week or so while the database is moved to its new permanent home where its contents will remain archived and available to the public for the sake of historical preservation.

In the meantime, I hope some of you will join me and over 3 million other players for a game of League of Legends (it’s free!)"

On August 18 2011 23:15 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:

How are they living off of other peoples work? Icefrog didn't make DotA. Blizzard first created the DotA genre in Starcraft (in the Aeon of Strife map), Eul created the first DotA and Guinsoo/Pendragon (the creators of LoL) made DotA Allstars. If anything, Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work.

On August 19 2011 07:53 TheWarbler wrote:


Man your fucking retarded, Aeon of Strife was made by a mapper in Starcraft. Then Eul made Dota Allstars one of the MANY VERSIONS OF DOTA that came out for warcraft 3 reign of chaos. All stars was the most successful version. When Frozen throne was released Guinsoo took over for Dota All-stars until Version 6.00 when Nerchio was lead developer and icefrog was second. By vesrion 6.10 Nerchio gave it fully to icefrog and he is the only reason people are playing dota. People stuck to Dota 5.84 until around Dota 6.30

On August 19 2011 03:24 Fleebenworth wrote:
It's not an argument, Icefrog has undoubtedly made DotA what it is today and almost single-handedly transformed it from a fun but imbalanced custom scen on WC3 to a genre of its own which has competitive appeal.

That is not a biased story. That is how it went, you can ask anybody about it, I can also clearly remember those days. It was a massive upset and everyone started hating on Pendragon, something that continues to this day and is the original source of the Dota-LoL enmity, the other significant claim being that LoL is a "dumbed down dota".

On August 19 2011 08:11 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:
Wow at the amount of hostility I get for saying IceFrog wasn't the only person that worked on DotA and saying he wasn't responsible for the success of LoL. Guess that's a testament to the community the game has.

On August 19 2011 08:11 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:
Wow at the amount of hostility I get for saying IceFrog wasn't the only person that worked on DotA and saying he wasn't responsible for the success of LoL. Guess that's a testament to the community the game has.

On August 18 2011 23:15 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:How are they living off of other peoples work? Icefrog didn't make DotA. Blizzard first created the DotA genre in Starcraft (in the Aeon of Strife map), Eul created the first DotA and Guinsoo/Pendragon (the creators of LoL) made DotA Allstars. If anything, Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work.

With Dota being first released in 2003 and having Icy take over the project after Guinsoo's retirement in 2005 and developing it ever since, you can hardly compare the measly 2 years of Eul/Guinsoo with Icy's work over 6 years. It's that simple.

Read the quote, I said "if anything", that means I don't actually think that's the case, but think that case is more likely than what the other person said. I never said Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work. I argued LoL/HoN are not living off of Icefrogs work.

On August 19 2011 04:29 BeanerBurrito wrote:


it kinds of went like, roc dota, then tft dota, then dota allstars, then it was just dota being updated by icefrog all alone for a few years, then suddenly OMG HON OMG LOL OMG DOTA 2 OMG

hon and lol are definitely the new kids on the block when it comes to making contributions to DOTA-like games

On August 19 2011 08:04 saritenite wrote:


As someone who played DotA since the Guinsoo days, I'd say it was already pretty much balanced back then. This was about seven/eight years ago.

Icefrog has done much for DotA, yes, but he does not deserve that much credit. I miss the days of v5.84c.

On August 19 2011 08:40 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:

Is it so hard for you people to read? Either way, I'll just edit it out as its seriously derailing this thread. People just don't seem to grasp the English language here.

On August 19 2011 08:11 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:
Wow at the amount of hostility I get for saying IceFrog wasn't the only person that worked on DotA and saying he wasn't responsible for the success of LoL. Guess that's a testament to the community the game has.

On August 18 2011 23:15 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:How are they living off of other peoples work? Icefrog didn't make DotA. Blizzard first created the DotA genre in Starcraft (in the Aeon of Strife map), Eul created the first DotA and Guinsoo/Pendragon (the creators of LoL) made DotA Allstars. If anything, Valve/Icefrog are living off of their work.