EPTState of the Protoss - Page 20
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nt-rAven
Canada405 Posts
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Hikari
1914 Posts
Not only will this kill 4 gate rush, it allows zlots and stalkers to be a lot more useful early on: as I feel both units are quite useless without forcefields. | ||
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Jesushooves
Canada553 Posts
On August 10 2011 01:10 Heavenly wrote: Where has this worked? I would enjoy seeing a replay of this being done versus Bomber, or Polt, or any other Code A or Code S terran please. Btw, if you make cannons to protect your mineral lines versus the cloaked banshees, they cloak their banshees, go and kill all of your anti-air and tons of the rest of your army with their banshees, then instantly win. I don't recall the game, but it was done vs bNy (not exactly pro terran) a few months ago. Protoss did 3 gate expo, made a robo for the banshees, and made almost nothing but zealots and stalkers. Charge finished in time for him to finally a-move all his stuff and crush the push - being one base up he easily won the rest of the game. What I see protoss try to do in GSL is 3 gate immortal......and immortals kinda suck vs marines- banshees do well too since every shot actually fires 2 attacks, negating the hardened shield for the most part. There could be plenty of other ways to deal with it, I'm not a protoss player so I wouldn't know these, but considering that, like I said, everyone just copies MC, and PvT is MC's worst matchup...maybe protoss should try looking to someone else for builds. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On August 10 2011 01:17 ClueLessx3 wrote: Mutas can get away easily DTs cannot, and i think that is why DT harassment is greatly discouraged since its a suicide mission and high cost of that. Besides i said give it blink in terms of energy base, make it like idk 100 each blink so you can only blink in and out once per 200 sec DTs are great as it stands. Many people just have the wrong idea about them. They think they HAVE to kill tons of works to be beneficial when most of the time they get sick map control and other benefits as well as potential to kill workers | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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Crying
Bulgaria778 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
Carrier buff might help. You never see carriers in a serious 1vs1 game anyway (well, lately at least). I would love to see Carriers buffed just to make the game more fun...but how would that in any way help with the primary issues at hand, namely that Protoss can't even get to the midgame vs. Terran, and has no real way that isn't a complete all-in to punish a greedy Zerg. A buff to a unit that doesn't appear until 20 minutes into the game doesn't matter when every Protoss is dying in the first 11 minutes. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On August 10 2011 01:21 nt-rAven wrote: honestly if you think its the players then why were most of you other races(zerg) whinning how toss was op 5-6 months ago and now all of a sudden all those same toss players got worse in skill level/ other races got so much better, even though the general practice time of a pro is rediculously similar. saying toss has no skill is somewhat illogical in a way~ bring back unnerfed warpgates unnerfed voidrays and unnerfed hts... then we will see whatsup~ until then this is a legit thread imo. since no races has been nerfed as much as toss! Yup. Someone cuts off your leg and lets race and see how you do on the podium. Thats what happened with protoss. | ||
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Lomo
Germany137 Posts
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vizir
Finland154 Posts
On August 10 2011 01:21 Kaonis wrote: Okay, I laughed, hard. I used to play zerg + Show Spoiler + Four gate/five gate wtf are you trying to say? I should commit into 4/5 gate every game vs T now JUST IN CASE he is doing 1-1-1? I'm really starting to lose faith in ppl when reading this thread. | ||
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cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
On August 09 2011 23:07 Olsson wrote: Protoss are not terran.+ Show Spoiler + I think this is a balance whine thread beneath the layer. You're saying that MC goes in Up&Down but it's not logical because he's a good player henceforth the "what??". It's because he just like Jinro probably isn't motivated to practice and isn't as good right now anymore. In my opinion protosses have been doing the same thing for a year now and they need to start doing drops and more aggressive things. And do you even remember when pros went one base collosus? Or when no one did canon expand? | ||
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
On August 10 2011 01:22 darkness wrote: Carrier buff might help. You never see carriers in a serious 1vs1 game anyway (well, lately at least). Ya I'm still waiting on that carrier buff where throwing in 2-4 into an army does well.  | ||
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phyren
United States1067 Posts
Good play with low tech gateway armies can be managed with nice blink micro and sentries, so this is certainly possible, but it tends to scale badly against the lowest tech units of the other races (lings and marines). | ||
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
On August 10 2011 01:20 gustavohmp wrote: No one can perfectly execute anything. Youre assuming the T is a pretty good player and the P is a pretty shitty one, and you want the P player to still win If theyre smart enough to not let you rape them, then you are just dumber than them. If you want a high-level solution, be high-level yourself, maybe then you can find it. The way you talk, no one but successful pros can discuss strategy. And you dont look like a successful pro to me. ...What? The way I talk is that every high level protoss player loses to this build when executed by a high level terran, which is what happens. No one being able to perfectly execute anything has nothing to do with it, the T being a good player and the P being bad and still winning has nothing to do with it, "if theyre smart enough to not let you rape them" has nothing to do with it...nothing you said has anything to do with anything I said. No high level protoss has held this against a high level terran unless the terran has made a massive mistake like forget siege mode, which would be like me trying to do a colossus timing attack and forgetting colossus range. So yes, in that case no one but successful pros can discuss the strategy because Johnny Diamond can't say something that sounds smart like "just zealot bomb his tanks" and think that is a viable solution. If there is a solution to this, that works on the level where the terran is smart enough to focus fire, spread his units correctly, etc. then it will not be discovered by some no-name on teamliquid.net theorycrafting about warp prisms. On August 10 2011 01:27 vizir wrote: wtf are you trying to say? I should commit into 4/5 gate every game vs T now JUST IN CASE he is doing 1-1-1? I'm really starting to lose faith in ppl when reading this thread. No, looks like he's saying he used to play zerg and that four gate was impossible to deal with, even though it stopped working well against anything but protoss before it got nerfed anyway. So he's basically being cute by saying "hahaha I whined about what you did forever, now I get to watch you whine, isn't this awesome, hohoho" which is extremely helpful. | ||
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Jesushooves
Canada553 Posts
On August 10 2011 01:16 vizir wrote: There has been debates over this for MONTHS. You probably don't do this build or don't play this game at all. It is a big OUTRAGE when easy-to-execute build that every platinum player can do requires godlike multitasking, microing and even macroing from the P to stop it. You just come to this thread sounding like "it's no big deal at all" and slam something creative-sounding at the table and think you have solved the issues with 1-1-1 at once? It isn't a big deal, terran has an allin and protoss are having trouble stopping it. It's not like the 1/1/1 involves terran just a-moving tanks marines and banshees - you have to position your tanks right and micro your banshees during harass, not every plat level player can do this. I could argue 4gate 7 stalker push requires far less skill, but just as deadly. I don't think I magically solved all your 1/1/1 problems - just like if you said to me while having trouble holding 3gate void - just make bunkers dude - you wouldn't solve it, it is still hard to hold, but that's how you stop it. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On August 10 2011 01:29 Jesushooves wrote: 3gate stargate isn't even close to being on the same level as a 1-1-1 allinIt isn't a big deal, terran has an allin and protoss are having trouble stopping it. It's not like the 1/1/1 involves terran just a-moving tanks marines and banshees - you have to position your tanks right and micro your banshees during harass, not every plat level player can do this. I could argue 4gate 7 stalker push requires far less skill, but just as deadly. I don't think I magically solved all your 1/1/1 problems - just like if you said to me while having trouble holding 3gate void - just make bunkers dude - you wouldn't solve it, it is still hard to hold, but that's how you stop it. | ||
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nt-rAven
Canada405 Posts
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ClueLessx3
Australia53 Posts
On August 10 2011 01:21 Numy wrote: DTs are great as it stands. Many people just have the wrong idea about them. They think they HAVE to kill tons of works to be beneficial when most of the time they get sick map control and other benefits as well as potential to kill workers Are you able to suggest any other way to harass the enemy? Cause i don't think there are any viable/effective way to do so with the current units Protoss is given, without investing an abundant of resource, just to be shut down. EDIT: Excluding Phoenix which is the solution i think. Agreeing with the poster above ^^ | ||
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sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
On August 10 2011 01:31 Shiori wrote: 3gate stargate isn't even close to being on the same level as a 1-1-1 allin Seriously, a viking and bunker full of marines and you're absolutely safe. | ||
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