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Oh god what a terrible move by steelseries haha.
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How the fuck can anyone defend keyboard macros lol
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On June 10 2011 07:04 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 07:01 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:57 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:48 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:46 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:37 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:33 Angry_Fetus wrote:On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% where it actually matters already have regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$. Really? You can honestly sit there and type that with a straight face? This is a pitiful justification. Way to ruin the experience for everyone else, when you can't compete with them on fair terms. This is the exact same scenario as hacking in any PC game. Your enjoyment is not more important than everyone elses enjoyment. I can sit here and type it with a straight face because its not like they cant attain the same tools that I have. They just choose not to, and that is not my problem. I dont claim to be good at the game even though I do very good but thats because im using an input method im used to. I am not willing to throw away 10 years of mouse/keyboard fps and switch to a controller ive barely used just so I can play with my friends. Input method should be my personal preference. It still is cheating. Just because everyone is able to do something does not justify doing it. Anyone can download aimbot/maphack. Anyone can download a videogame or a movie off the internet instead of paying. Does that make them right? I think not. And how about disabled people who are generally not even considered when control scemes are designed, but can use macros to even up the playing field and make the game keep up with their minds. Are they cheaters too? Yes, they are. Everything is not black and white, though. It's hard to judge how much assistance is needed to level the field perfectly. StarCraft II, as well as many other games, is about pressing buttons fast. It may sound harsh, but if you don't have the physical capabilites to compete, you should look for an other game or for opponents which have the same opportunities as you have. That's how all sports work But we are talking about a game. Not a sport. The majority of people who play this game are not wanna be progamers who treat this game as a sport. They play it more along the lines of pickup basketball, for enjoyment and stimulation. Macros have been specified as cheating by Blizzard as well as every single tournament organization. Sports are games, and they are played competitively. Same for SC2. What don't you understand that this has already been deemed cheating a long time ago? This isn't an ongoing discussion with grey area. People get banned for it. People aren't allowed to do this in tournaments.
And what do you not get about me saying that a lot of the people who use these things will never set foot in the competetive or tournament scene, making it not an issue.
Not every game is played casually by tournament rules. :/
Tounaments already have regulations against them as these types of things don't really have a place there.
It's agaisnt the ToS sure, but the people who bring you the ToS are the same people who brought you bnet2.0.
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I think this is stupid as fuck, why make SC2 easier than it already is?
Bad move Steelseries & Grubby.
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On June 10 2011 07:07 Seide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 07:04 Mohdoo wrote:On June 10 2011 07:01 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:57 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:48 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:46 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:37 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:33 Angry_Fetus wrote:On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% where it actually matters already have regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$. Really? You can honestly sit there and type that with a straight face? This is a pitiful justification. Way to ruin the experience for everyone else, when you can't compete with them on fair terms. This is the exact same scenario as hacking in any PC game. Your enjoyment is not more important than everyone elses enjoyment. I can sit here and type it with a straight face because its not like they cant attain the same tools that I have. They just choose not to, and that is not my problem. I dont claim to be good at the game even though I do very good but thats because im using an input method im used to. I am not willing to throw away 10 years of mouse/keyboard fps and switch to a controller ive barely used just so I can play with my friends. Input method should be my personal preference. It still is cheating. Just because everyone is able to do something does not justify doing it. Anyone can download aimbot/maphack. Anyone can download a videogame or a movie off the internet instead of paying. Does that make them right? I think not. And how about disabled people who are generally not even considered when control scemes are designed, but can use macros to even up the playing field and make the game keep up with their minds. Are they cheaters too? Yes, they are. Everything is not black and white, though. It's hard to judge how much assistance is needed to level the field perfectly. StarCraft II, as well as many other games, is about pressing buttons fast. It may sound harsh, but if you don't have the physical capabilites to compete, you should look for an other game or for opponents which have the same opportunities as you have. That's how all sports work But we are talking about a game. Not a sport. The majority of people who play this game are not wanna be progamers who treat this game as a sport. They play it more along the lines of pickup basketball, for enjoyment and stimulation. Macros have been specified as cheating by Blizzard as well as every single tournament organization. Sports are games, and they are played competitively. Same for SC2. What don't you understand that this has already been deemed cheating a long time ago? This isn't an ongoing discussion with grey area. People get banned for it. People aren't allowed to do this in tournaments. And what do you not get about me saying that a lot of the people who use these things will never set foot in the competetive or tournament scene, making it not an issue. Not every game is played casually by tournament rules. :/ Tounaments already have regulations agains't them as these types of things don't really have a place there.
Casual or not, it is BANNED in LADDER by BLIZZARD. Major tournaments only reinforce the thoughts of Blizzard.
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On June 10 2011 06:59 Seide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:52 Razuik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:48 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:46 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:37 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:33 Angry_Fetus wrote:On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% where it actually matters already have regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$. Really? You can honestly sit there and type that with a straight face? This is a pitiful justification. Way to ruin the experience for everyone else, when you can't compete with them on fair terms. This is the exact same scenario as hacking in any PC game. Your enjoyment is not more important than everyone elses enjoyment. I can sit here and type it with a straight face because its not like they cant attain the same tools that I have. They just choose not to, and that is not my problem. I dont claim to be good at the game even though I do very good but thats because im using an input method im used to. I am not willing to throw away 10 years of mouse/keyboard fps and switch to a controller ive barely used just so I can play with my friends. Input method should be my personal preference. It still is cheating. Just because everyone is able to do something does not justify doing it. Anyone can download aimbot/maphack. Anyone can download a videogame or a movie off the internet instead of paying. Does that make them right? I think not. And how about disabled people who are generally not even considered when control scemes are designed, but can use macros to even up the playing field and make the game keep up with their minds. Are they cheaters too? The whole "it's not cheating because it evens up the playing field between skilled and unskilled players" argument is kinda silly because that's why there are separate leagues. Speaking to disabled persons playing this game is a different argument. I seriously doubt that Steelseries developed this keyboard to cater to the small about of disabled people playing Starcraft 2. It may not have been developed to cater to them, but they can use it to their benefit. Demonifing Grubby and SS for promoting fuctionality that all game keyboard manufacturers have been including for years is just plain unfair to Grubby and SS. Macro functionality is available to anyone if they want it. Some people make the choice that its cheating and dont want it, because they consider it cheating and thats fine. But that is the choice they made made. Others will use it because it just makes the game more fun to play for them, and will see if the functionality is available to everyone, then they can't be faulted for the choices of others.
That is NOT a choice they made, that is a choice BLIZZARD made. Just like you hooking up your keyboard and mouse to your xbox is cheating, because microsoft deems it so. It is not up to your discretion.
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On June 10 2011 07:07 Seide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 07:04 Mohdoo wrote:On June 10 2011 07:01 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:57 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:48 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:46 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:37 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:33 Angry_Fetus wrote:On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% where it actually matters already have regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$. Really? You can honestly sit there and type that with a straight face? This is a pitiful justification. Way to ruin the experience for everyone else, when you can't compete with them on fair terms. This is the exact same scenario as hacking in any PC game. Your enjoyment is not more important than everyone elses enjoyment. I can sit here and type it with a straight face because its not like they cant attain the same tools that I have. They just choose not to, and that is not my problem. I dont claim to be good at the game even though I do very good but thats because im using an input method im used to. I am not willing to throw away 10 years of mouse/keyboard fps and switch to a controller ive barely used just so I can play with my friends. Input method should be my personal preference. It still is cheating. Just because everyone is able to do something does not justify doing it. Anyone can download aimbot/maphack. Anyone can download a videogame or a movie off the internet instead of paying. Does that make them right? I think not. And how about disabled people who are generally not even considered when control scemes are designed, but can use macros to even up the playing field and make the game keep up with their minds. Are they cheaters too? Yes, they are. Everything is not black and white, though. It's hard to judge how much assistance is needed to level the field perfectly. StarCraft II, as well as many other games, is about pressing buttons fast. It may sound harsh, but if you don't have the physical capabilites to compete, you should look for an other game or for opponents which have the same opportunities as you have. That's how all sports work But we are talking about a game. Not a sport. The majority of people who play this game are not wanna be progamers who treat this game as a sport. They play it more along the lines of pickup basketball, for enjoyment and stimulation. Macros have been specified as cheating by Blizzard as well as every single tournament organization. Sports are games, and they are played competitively. Same for SC2. What don't you understand that this has already been deemed cheating a long time ago? This isn't an ongoing discussion with grey area. People get banned for it. People aren't allowed to do this in tournaments. And what do you not get about me saying that a lot of the people who use these things will never set foot in the competetive or tournament scene, making it not an issue. Not every game is played casually by tournament rules. :/
Are you talking about people playing custom games against each other with custom macros? Or laddering? If they are laddering with custom macros, they are choosing to participate in a ranked, regulated competitive medium. By doing so, they agree to the terms of the competitive environment. By laddering with macros, they are choosing to obey their own set of rules and disrespecting their opponent as well as the ladder.
However, if you are talking about playing against people where it is is already understood that they are using macros, and it is unranked, then that is just fine. But laddering with macros is plain and simply disrespectful.
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Of course Grubby is to blame. He knew full well that what he was promoting is cheating, and he chose to go ahead and do the commercial.
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On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
But we are talking about a game. Not a sport. The majority of people who play this game are not wanna be progamers who treat this game as a sport. They play it more along the lines of pickup basketball, for enjoyment and stimulation.
The majority of people who play sports or other "sports" are not trying to become pro, so there for we shall call it a game
Baseball is a "game"
Dont put down the people who play seriously who get there fun from winning just as much as playing.
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On June 10 2011 07:01 Seide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:57 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:48 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:46 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:37 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:33 Angry_Fetus wrote:On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% where it actually matters already have regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$. Really? You can honestly sit there and type that with a straight face? This is a pitiful justification. Way to ruin the experience for everyone else, when you can't compete with them on fair terms. This is the exact same scenario as hacking in any PC game. Your enjoyment is not more important than everyone elses enjoyment. I can sit here and type it with a straight face because its not like they cant attain the same tools that I have. They just choose not to, and that is not my problem. I dont claim to be good at the game even though I do very good but thats because im using an input method im used to. I am not willing to throw away 10 years of mouse/keyboard fps and switch to a controller ive barely used just so I can play with my friends. Input method should be my personal preference. It still is cheating. Just because everyone is able to do something does not justify doing it. Anyone can download aimbot/maphack. Anyone can download a videogame or a movie off the internet instead of paying. Does that make them right? I think not. And how about disabled people who are generally not even considered when control scemes are designed, but can use macros to even up the playing field and make the game keep up with their minds. Are they cheaters too? Yes, they are. Everything is not black and white, though. It's hard to judge how much assistance is needed to level the field perfectly. StarCraft II, as well as many other games, is about pressing buttons fast. It may sound harsh, but if you don't have the physical capabilites to compete, you should look for an other game or for opponents which have the same opportunities as you have. That's how all sports work But we are talking about a game. Not a sport. The majority of people who play this game are not wanna be progamers who treat this game as a sport. They play it more along the lines of pickup basketball, for enjoyment and stimulation.
Did you agree that there would be no fouling before you started that game of pickup bball? Because you did for Starcraft 2.
If you want to play a game for fun on your own terms, go play with your friends or play a single player game and stay away from the competitive online games, asshole.
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On June 10 2011 07:10 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 07:07 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 07:04 Mohdoo wrote:On June 10 2011 07:01 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:57 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:48 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:46 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:37 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:33 Angry_Fetus wrote:On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% where it actually matters already have regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$. Really? You can honestly sit there and type that with a straight face? This is a pitiful justification. Way to ruin the experience for everyone else, when you can't compete with them on fair terms. This is the exact same scenario as hacking in any PC game. Your enjoyment is not more important than everyone elses enjoyment. I can sit here and type it with a straight face because its not like they cant attain the same tools that I have. They just choose not to, and that is not my problem. I dont claim to be good at the game even though I do very good but thats because im using an input method im used to. I am not willing to throw away 10 years of mouse/keyboard fps and switch to a controller ive barely used just so I can play with my friends. Input method should be my personal preference. It still is cheating. Just because everyone is able to do something does not justify doing it. Anyone can download aimbot/maphack. Anyone can download a videogame or a movie off the internet instead of paying. Does that make them right? I think not. And how about disabled people who are generally not even considered when control scemes are designed, but can use macros to even up the playing field and make the game keep up with their minds. Are they cheaters too? Yes, they are. Everything is not black and white, though. It's hard to judge how much assistance is needed to level the field perfectly. StarCraft II, as well as many other games, is about pressing buttons fast. It may sound harsh, but if you don't have the physical capabilites to compete, you should look for an other game or for opponents which have the same opportunities as you have. That's how all sports work But we are talking about a game. Not a sport. The majority of people who play this game are not wanna be progamers who treat this game as a sport. They play it more along the lines of pickup basketball, for enjoyment and stimulation. Macros have been specified as cheating by Blizzard as well as every single tournament organization. Sports are games, and they are played competitively. Same for SC2. What don't you understand that this has already been deemed cheating a long time ago? This isn't an ongoing discussion with grey area. People get banned for it. People aren't allowed to do this in tournaments. And what do you not get about me saying that a lot of the people who use these things will never set foot in the competetive or tournament scene, making it not an issue. Not every game is played casually by tournament rules. :/ Are you talking about people playing custom games against each other with custom macros? Or laddering? If they are laddering with custom macros, they are choosing to participate in a ranked, regulated competitive medium. By doing so, they agree to the terms of the competitive environment. By laddering with macros, they are choosing to obey their own set of rules and disrespecting their opponent as well as the ladder. However, if you are talking about playing against people where it is is already understood that they are using macros, and it is unranked, then that is just fine. But laddering with macros is plain and simply disrespectful.
I agree with you about using it on ladder, I personally dont use macros for SC2.
I just think it's unfair the way people are demonizing Grubby and SS for promoting a product with functionality that every other gaming peripheral company also makes. When for some people who dont care about competetive play, it can actually make the game much more enjoyable.
Its not like they went and said "GO USE THIS ON LADDER NOW, WILL MAKE U INSTA GRANDMASTER".
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On June 10 2011 00:09 Ahelvin wrote:
I think Grubby was asked to do a commercial in exchange for some money, and of course he accepted because he is a rational human being.
I believe the term you are looking for is prostitution.
User was warned for this post
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On June 10 2011 07:15 Unhallowed wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 00:09 Ahelvin wrote:
I think Grubby was asked to do a commercial in exchange for some money, and of course he accepted because he is a rational human being.
I believe the term you are looking for is prostitution.
Please... PLEASE open a dictionary!
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So much for buying Steelseries, I guess?
Don't want to make other players think I am cheating when they see me use their products... :-/
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On June 10 2011 07:14 Seide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 07:10 Mohdoo wrote:On June 10 2011 07:07 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 07:04 Mohdoo wrote:On June 10 2011 07:01 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:57 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:48 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:46 Ejohrik wrote:On June 10 2011 06:37 Seide wrote:On June 10 2011 06:33 Angry_Fetus wrote:
[quote]
Really? You can honestly sit there and type that with a straight face? This is a pitiful justification. Way to ruin the experience for everyone else, when you can't compete with them on fair terms. This is the exact same scenario as hacking in any PC game. Your enjoyment is not more important than everyone elses enjoyment. I can sit here and type it with a straight face because its not like they cant attain the same tools that I have. They just choose not to, and that is not my problem. I dont claim to be good at the game even though I do very good but thats because im using an input method im used to. I am not willing to throw away 10 years of mouse/keyboard fps and switch to a controller ive barely used just so I can play with my friends. Input method should be my personal preference. It still is cheating. Just because everyone is able to do something does not justify doing it. Anyone can download aimbot/maphack. Anyone can download a videogame or a movie off the internet instead of paying. Does that make them right? I think not. And how about disabled people who are generally not even considered when control scemes are designed, but can use macros to even up the playing field and make the game keep up with their minds. Are they cheaters too? Yes, they are. Everything is not black and white, though. It's hard to judge how much assistance is needed to level the field perfectly. StarCraft II, as well as many other games, is about pressing buttons fast. It may sound harsh, but if you don't have the physical capabilites to compete, you should look for an other game or for opponents which have the same opportunities as you have. That's how all sports work But we are talking about a game. Not a sport. The majority of people who play this game are not wanna be progamers who treat this game as a sport. They play it more along the lines of pickup basketball, for enjoyment and stimulation. Macros have been specified as cheating by Blizzard as well as every single tournament organization. Sports are games, and they are played competitively. Same for SC2. What don't you understand that this has already been deemed cheating a long time ago? This isn't an ongoing discussion with grey area. People get banned for it. People aren't allowed to do this in tournaments. And what do you not get about me saying that a lot of the people who use these things will never set foot in the competetive or tournament scene, making it not an issue. Not every game is played casually by tournament rules. :/ Are you talking about people playing custom games against each other with custom macros? Or laddering? If they are laddering with custom macros, they are choosing to participate in a ranked, regulated competitive medium. By doing so, they agree to the terms of the competitive environment. By laddering with macros, they are choosing to obey their own set of rules and disrespecting their opponent as well as the ladder. However, if you are talking about playing against people where it is is already understood that they are using macros, and it is unranked, then that is just fine. But laddering with macros is plain and simply disrespectful. I agree with you about using it on ladder, I personally dont use macros for SC2. I just think it's unfair demonizing Grubby and SS for promoting a product with functionality that every other gaming peripheral company also makes. When for some people who dont care about competetive play, it can actually make the game much more enjoyable. Its not like they went and said "GO USE THIS ON LADDER NOW, WILL MAKE U INSTA GRANDMASTER".
Regardless of whether they to ladder with it or not, the standard method of playing SC2 is laddering. The vast majority of people who play SC2 against other people use the ladder system to do so. And even if they are not going to get to grandmaster, there are plenty of lower level players who try to improve through the standard and accepted methods. I myself am in master league, so I don't think anyone at my level would be using this anyway, but I know people who are diamond/plat/gold etc, and they try to improve. For someone to use a macro keyboard against them is unfair.
But as I said, if they want to use this in an environment where it is understood they are using it and its not on the ladder, sure, go for it. But violating the rules you agree to by laddering is a really selfish thing to do, and I realize that you disagree with it on ladder.
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Eh, it's not like any pros would use it...
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On June 10 2011 07:16 Razuik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 07:15 Unhallowed wrote:On June 10 2011 00:09 Ahelvin wrote:
I think Grubby was asked to do a commercial in exchange for some money, and of course he accepted because he is a rational human being.
I believe the term you are looking for is prostitution. Please... PLEASE open a dictionary!
While I would not agree that one should call what grubby did like that as it would be an exaggeration... it's you who should look up an dictionary:
put (oneself or one's talents) to an unworthy or corrupt use for personal or financial gain:
his willingness to prostitute himself to the worst instincts of the electorate
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/prostitute
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Couldn't care less because it only effects ladder play.
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On June 10 2011 07:18 Whiplash wrote:
Eh, it's not like any pros would use it...
Are professionals the only people who agree to the rules of a ladder match? The issue is not whether this will lose someone money. The issue is that the standard rule set of laddering is violated by using this keyboard. If someone is choosing to ladder or participate in tournaments, they accept those rules. Professionals are not the only ones who enjoy the pursuit of improving at SC2.
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On June 10 2011 07:01 Seide wrote:
But we are talking about a game. Not a sport. The majority of people who play this game are not wanna be progamers who treat this game as a sport. They play it more along the lines of pickup basketball, for enjoyment and stimulation.
You cheat in pickup basketball? Why would you do that, it's just a game!
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EPT
