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On June 10 2011 06:21 Vulcano wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:12 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 05:19 Vulcano wrote:On June 10 2011 05:01 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:48 ptbl wrote:On June 10 2011 04:45 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:29 deadjon wrote:On June 10 2011 04:26 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:17 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 04:13 Egyptian_Head wrote:
[quote]
Not if it doesn't affect my playing experience. Why would I? You are openly admitting that any unfair and cheating play does not matter as long as the game plays the same for you. As long as your game does what you want it to do when you tell it, you don't care if your opponent map hacks. I am failing to see the logic, but I will leave you to your delusions. Map hacks do change my game experience. I cannot hide anything, drops are pointless etc. It just ruins my fun. Macro keyboard does not ruin my fun. Map hacks automate scounting, no? Keyboard macros automate APM, no? Both would ruin my fun. But I don't see how this is an argument of "fun" but rather an argument regarding a large esports sponsor openly condoning actions against Blizzards ToS. That's bad IMO. The first person quoting cut off the first part of my post which says that I think people are taking this too seriously not that they should or should not be allowed. Im only arguing that people are taking this way to seriously, im not arguing that they are or are not allowed or even should or should not be allowed. Just that people are taking it to seriously. Your attitude of accepting cheating as part of the game scares me. What's going to stop you cheating by using the macros? You said you don't mind if an opponent uses the macros to cheat. What's going to stop you from doing the same if you think cheating is ok? This is what really scares me that there are people who share your beliefs and who cheat in the game because they think it's ok. If you had read this entire loooong quote you would know I have been saying that someone else using a macro keyboard does not affect my playing experience. Me using a macro keyboard on the other hand does affect my play experience. In this case for the worse, I like challenging games and a macro keyboard according to people in this thread would make the game easier hence I will not use it. What boogles my mind is why do people care what other do if it is not affecting how they experience the game. If you think it does affect how you experience the game great, I disagree. You are still taking this whole macro keyboard thing this far to seriously which is the entire point of everything I have said. your ability to pretend two players using vastly different control mechanics, one being greatly simplified, are equal, due to the MMS, is astounding. It sounds to me like you are trying to say.. "I like to be challenged, whether by fair or unfair competition, because i am too tough or stubborn to be affected my macro keyboards and so everyone else should feel that way, contrary to the published literature foreboding such advantages which was actually written by the authority on such things.." Pretty much. I am saying is everyone is taking it to seriously because it does not affect your experience playing the game. The ladder system negates any bad side effects it has. Im not arguing that it should be allowed, that's up to blizzard. I see people more upset by macro keyboards than third world hunger. Its rather amusing. lol @ the ladder system correcting anything to do with macro keyboards.. if anything, macro keyboards affect ones placement on the ladder system, thus being manipulated in the opposite fashion as you described. and yes, it is up to blizzard, as described in the ToS .. so which is it, we shouldnt care if they are used or we are taking the topic too seriously
Ladder system means even if someone is using a macro keyboard you will only face them if you have a reasonable chance of beating them, hence your play experience is not affected meaning there is no need to take it overly seriously.
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I like grubby and he obviously doesn't use macros himself. if he did this to get some money then i dont really care because he probably needs money to live
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On June 10 2011 06:27 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:24 Hypemeup wrote:On June 10 2011 06:19 ptbl wrote:
This pretty much means I'm not buying steelseries products.I don't support companies that promote cheating in Starcraft 2. The integrity of the game must be upheld and protected. I'll stick with Razer for now. Good thing Razer does not sell macro keyboar.... Shit. Please link me to a youtube video or article where Razer has promoted their macro keyboard to be used for Starcraft 2. I think their Starcraft II gear is enough promotion for macro functions in Starcraft II
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On June 10 2011 06:24 Hypemeup wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:19 ptbl wrote:
This pretty much means I'm not buying steelseries products.I don't support companies that promote cheating in Starcraft 2. The integrity of the game must be upheld and protected. I'll stick with Razer for now. Good thing Razer does not sell macro keyboar.... Shit.
You, as many people in this thread, simply do not get what it is about.
It is not about Macro Keyboards. It is about specifically promoting the Macro capability as an aid in cheating in competetive gaming. There are many good reasons to use macros. But there is also a possibility of abuse. I think most people will understand that things can be used in different ways, and when the same thing might be used to do something useful, or something bad, in many cases it is ok to sell it for the useful thing. It is not okay to sell it to do the wrong thing with. Macrokeyboards are okay. You can use macros for work, or for surfing, or whatever. Using macros to cheat in games is not okay. Promoting your keyboards explicitly by stating that you can use them to cheat in games is as a result of that also not okay.
I will spare you comparisons because there already are way to many of those in this thread, which usually result in people talking about the compared item instead of the item the thread is actually about.
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On June 10 2011 06:29 Skamtet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:27 ptbl wrote:On June 10 2011 06:24 Hypemeup wrote:On June 10 2011 06:19 ptbl wrote:
This pretty much means I'm not buying steelseries products.I don't support companies that promote cheating in Starcraft 2. The integrity of the game must be upheld and protected. I'll stick with Razer for now. Good thing Razer does not sell macro keyboar.... Shit. Please link me to a youtube video or article where Razer has promoted their macro keyboard to be used for Starcraft 2. I think their Starcraft II gear is enough promotion for macro functions in Starcraft II
Please link me to a youtube video or article where Razer promotes their macro keyboard to be used for Starcraft 2. You are saying that Razer is also promoting macro keyboard cheating in Starcraft 2 like Steelseries. Please provide proof. If there is evidence, I will also not buy Razer products. I just want proof that they have been promoting cheating for Starcraft 2 through the usage of their macro keyboards.
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On June 10 2011 06:27 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:24 Hypemeup wrote:On June 10 2011 06:19 ptbl wrote:
This pretty much means I'm not buying steelseries products.I don't support companies that promote cheating in Starcraft 2. The integrity of the game must be upheld and protected. I'll stick with Razer for now. Good thing Razer does not sell macro keyboar.... Shit. Please link me to a youtube video or article where Razer has promoted their macro keyboard to be used for Starcraft 2.
So promoting is bad, but with Razer/Logitech you can do the same thing so that's ok?
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On June 10 2011 06:27 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:24 Hypemeup wrote:On June 10 2011 06:19 ptbl wrote:
This pretty much means I'm not buying steelseries products.I don't support companies that promote cheating in Starcraft 2. The integrity of the game must be upheld and protected. I'll stick with Razer for now. Good thing Razer does not sell macro keyboar.... Shit. Please link me to a youtube video or article where Razer has promoted their macro keyboard to be used for Starcraft 2.
Hello again buddy, calmed down abit I see!
http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.199817100/categoryId.35156900
On-The-Fly Macro Recording Allows For Effortless Configuration
Record unlimited macros on-the-fly without having to take your eye off the game and immediately change between up to 10 profiles without the hassle of going into complex driver menus.
PS: HI Skamtet, still posting in the OT on AJ?
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On June 10 2011 06:24 Ejohrik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% already has regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$. I care, and I bet many others do. I think most players. not only pros, want to play the game on even terms, knowing that your opponent does not have any advantage outside of his own skill. Fair play is not only meant for professional competition. If you use a mouse and keyboard for CoD on a console, when it's not supported, that's unfair to other players. You may think you have fun, but you are ruining the fun for many others. Players who have bought the game for their $50. They payed that money, expecting be able to play the game with other players using the gamepad for which the game was intended.
What should I care about their 50$?
They can also get the same thing and level the playing field if they really wanted to. Its not like they are going be top tier gamers where it actually matters.
I like how the same people arguing that BWs UI limitations actually dont give it more integrity, just a "different game" because that APM will be used for something else in SC2, are ready to burn people at the stake over simple keyboard macros.
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On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% where it actually matters already have regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$.
Really? You can honestly sit there and type that with a straight face? This is a pitiful justification. Way to ruin the experience for everyone else, when you can't compete with them on fair terms. This is the exact same scenario as hacking in any PC game. Your enjoyment is not more important than everyone elses enjoyment.
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On June 10 2011 06:27 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:21 Vulcano wrote:On June 10 2011 06:12 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 05:19 Vulcano wrote:On June 10 2011 05:01 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:48 ptbl wrote:On June 10 2011 04:45 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:29 deadjon wrote:On June 10 2011 04:26 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:17 JFCycWalker wrote:
[quote]
You are openly admitting that any unfair and cheating play does not matter as long as the game plays the same for you. As long as your game does what you want it to do when you tell it, you don't care if your opponent map hacks. I am failing to see the logic, but I will leave you to your delusions. Map hacks do change my game experience. I cannot hide anything, drops are pointless etc. It just ruins my fun. Macro keyboard does not ruin my fun. Map hacks automate scounting, no? Keyboard macros automate APM, no? Both would ruin my fun. But I don't see how this is an argument of "fun" but rather an argument regarding a large esports sponsor openly condoning actions against Blizzards ToS. That's bad IMO. The first person quoting cut off the first part of my post which says that I think people are taking this too seriously not that they should or should not be allowed. Im only arguing that people are taking this way to seriously, im not arguing that they are or are not allowed or even should or should not be allowed. Just that people are taking it to seriously. Your attitude of accepting cheating as part of the game scares me. What's going to stop you cheating by using the macros? You said you don't mind if an opponent uses the macros to cheat. What's going to stop you from doing the same if you think cheating is ok? This is what really scares me that there are people who share your beliefs and who cheat in the game because they think it's ok. If you had read this entire loooong quote you would know I have been saying that someone else using a macro keyboard does not affect my playing experience. Me using a macro keyboard on the other hand does affect my play experience. In this case for the worse, I like challenging games and a macro keyboard according to people in this thread would make the game easier hence I will not use it. What boogles my mind is why do people care what other do if it is not affecting how they experience the game. If you think it does affect how you experience the game great, I disagree. You are still taking this whole macro keyboard thing this far to seriously which is the entire point of everything I have said. your ability to pretend two players using vastly different control mechanics, one being greatly simplified, are equal, due to the MMS, is astounding. It sounds to me like you are trying to say.. "I like to be challenged, whether by fair or unfair competition, because i am too tough or stubborn to be affected my macro keyboards and so everyone else should feel that way, contrary to the published literature foreboding such advantages which was actually written by the authority on such things.." Pretty much. I am saying is everyone is taking it to seriously because it does not affect your experience playing the game. The ladder system negates any bad side effects it has. Im not arguing that it should be allowed, that's up to blizzard. I see people more upset by macro keyboards than third world hunger. Its rather amusing. lol @ the ladder system correcting anything to do with macro keyboards.. if anything, macro keyboards affect ones placement on the ladder system, thus being manipulated in the opposite fashion as you described. and yes, it is up to blizzard, as described in the ToS .. so which is it, we shouldnt care if they are used or we are taking the topic too seriously Ladder system means even if someone is using a macro keyboard you will only face them if you have a reasonable chance of beating them, hence your play experience is not affected meaning there is no need to take it overly seriously.
How fun is it to play against someone with awful game sense and micro who can only keep up because he's carried by auto-play macro? It's not just about winning. Some people value good, fair and exciting matches.
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On June 10 2011 06:32 Hypemeup wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:27 ptbl wrote:On June 10 2011 06:24 Hypemeup wrote:On June 10 2011 06:19 ptbl wrote:
This pretty much means I'm not buying steelseries products.I don't support companies that promote cheating in Starcraft 2. The integrity of the game must be upheld and protected. I'll stick with Razer for now. Good thing Razer does not sell macro keyboar.... Shit. Please link me to a youtube video or article where Razer has promoted their macro keyboard to be used for Starcraft 2. Hello again buddy, calmed down abit I see! http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.199817100/categoryId.35156900Show nested quote +On-The-Fly Macro Recording Allows For Effortless Configuration
Record unlimited macros on-the-fly without having to take your eye off the game and immediately change between up to 10 profiles without the hassle of going into complex driver menus. PS: HI Skamtet, still posting in the OT on AJ?
Thank you. I'm also done with Razer.
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most of razer keyboards are able to make that
I have and arctoza and just to test I set a macro key where one single key select all my hatches>S>ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
make 125251515 lings in les than a second.
So don't say razer doest make that, they just didn't promote this stuff as sc2 macro.
and no I dont use it i can simple hold z or whatever I want to spamm
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lmao i find this funny. i dont think they did this with bad intention guys jeez.
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Pretty funny everyone is acting all shocked and appalled like this doesn't go on.
Pro-tip: A major marketing point of the Razer Blackwidow and other Razer products is that the macros are done within the keyboard hardware rather than software. Making them completely undetectable on any game (because the keyboard is sending the keystrokes just as if you hit the key). Many Razer products also tout the fact that the macros are stored in the keyboard memory. You don't need the software installed for them to work. You can setup your favorite macros, take your keyboard to a tourney, and they will work just as they are supposed to and be completely undetectable.
Razer may not have made a commercial to say all this, but they tout these features and these are the real world uses for them.
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On June 10 2011 05:58 jinixxx123 wrote:
can blizzard even check for macro's in thier anti hack programs or whatever they use?
im really surprised grubby agreed to make this video when its common knowledge every RTS game (well at least blizzard own) does not promote macros like this. Next thing there is a macro to spam workers for the first 15 mins of the game.
No, they can't.
And as for Grubby, it's not like he's using them or anything so I couldn't care less, not gonna start hating someone just because they're in a trash commercial, then my hate-list would be pretty big. :p
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On June 10 2011 06:34 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:32 Hypemeup wrote:On June 10 2011 06:27 ptbl wrote:On June 10 2011 06:24 Hypemeup wrote:On June 10 2011 06:19 ptbl wrote:
This pretty much means I'm not buying steelseries products.I don't support companies that promote cheating in Starcraft 2. The integrity of the game must be upheld and protected. I'll stick with Razer for now. Good thing Razer does not sell macro keyboar.... Shit. Please link me to a youtube video or article where Razer has promoted their macro keyboard to be used for Starcraft 2. Hello again buddy, calmed down abit I see! http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.199817100/categoryId.35156900On-The-Fly Macro Recording Allows For Effortless Configuration
Record unlimited macros on-the-fly without having to take your eye off the game and immediately change between up to 10 profiles without the hassle of going into complex driver menus. PS: HI Skamtet, still posting in the OT on AJ? Thank you. I'm also done with Razer.
Razer does not promote the usage of the macro keys for SC2 ... and when you look at where those keys are (assuming only they are programmable while the shift can program every key), their placement on the very top right of the keyboard is totally unsuitable to be used for sc2.
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On June 10 2011 06:32 Glowbox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:27 ptbl wrote:On June 10 2011 06:24 Hypemeup wrote:On June 10 2011 06:19 ptbl wrote:
This pretty much means I'm not buying steelseries products.I don't support companies that promote cheating in Starcraft 2. The integrity of the game must be upheld and protected. I'll stick with Razer for now. Good thing Razer does not sell macro keyboar.... Shit. Please link me to a youtube video or article where Razer has promoted their macro keyboard to be used for Starcraft 2. So promoting is bad, but with Razer/Logitech you can do the same thing so that's ok?
Exactly. Because there apparently are legitimate reasons to wanting the macro buttons. The buttons themselves are not the bad thing. Using them for cheating in games is. So if your selling point is "You can use macro buttons to cheat in games", that is bad. If your selling point is "Our keyboards are good, you can use them for gaming. Also, there are macro buttons on them", that is ok.
Edit: Also, just to avoid being a fanboy or something, i don't use a specific gaming keyboard, i generally buy some cheap 10€ thing without fancy stuff on it and use it until it breaks.
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On June 10 2011 06:33 Angry_Fetus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% where it actually matters already have regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$. Really? You can honestly sit there and type that with a straight face? This is a pitiful justification. Way to ruin the experience for everyone else, when you can't compete with them on fair terms. This is the exact same scenario as hacking in any PC game. Your enjoyment is not more important than everyone elses enjoyment.
I can sit here and type it with a straight face because its not like they cant attain the same tools that I have. They just choose not to, and that is not my problem.
I dont claim to be good at the game even though I do very good but thats because im using an input method im used to. I am not willing to throw away 10 years of mouse/keyboard fps and switch to a controller ive barely used just so I can play with my friends.
Input method should be my personal preference, I don't believe that a developer should limit me in that respect.
Open input methods open up games to more people, some people can actually benefit heavily from macros, for example the disabled who actually often are not thought about when developers design control schemes.
Are you going to demonize someone who has joint issues, and who uses macros because it alows them to make the game keep up with their minds?
I would never use aim hack or a map hack, but as far as what peripheral I choose to use for input and how I use it should be up to the player.
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Promoting Macro's is different to actually using them... but it doesn't mean it's SteelSeries fault for advertising it, and specifically for SC2... You don't see Razer or Logitech doing that too often do you?
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EPT
