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On June 10 2011 05:12 GGzerG wrote:
XsebT I like and respect you and your views but saying that Response's comment was unbelievably stupid was just un called for, and invalid within itself, sure keyboards with macros can potentially help a player, and give a certain edge, but for a player to get this edge he has to first completely relearn how he plays the game (assuming that he didn't always play with macro keys) Which is a pretty good assumption to make, I myself have played around 10 thousand games as Zerg since the beta, for me to stop how I play and completely relearn a new way in which I would have to stop what i'm doing and hit a macro key, then no, the advantage gained over this is so small, and the player with the better mechanics, apm, and skill will still almost always win, this is not giving anyone a huge advantage to win games, Everyone needs to think more logically instead of just thinking "Omg he can press 1 key and do multiple things" , it's not like the macro keys on a keyboard are going to win games for you.
As a Brood War player, I have a really hard time learning to utilize MBS (I believe you can get a third party cheat tool that allows for MBS in bw, so I feel like this example fits well). Sometimes I accidentally group units with buildings and mess stuff up and things like that. Playing SC2 is hard for me because of that, and it will no doubt take quite a bit "getting used to". However, that does not make it any less of an advantage. The same thing goes for macros. Maybe Response wouldn't be able to benefit from them right away, but that does not mean their potential should be ignored like he did. You could call his comment short sighted or whatever, though I went "stupid" and I feel like that's completely justified.
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On June 10 2011 05:59 Dia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 05:55 Defrag wrote:
How can anyone argue this should be allowed?
I guess larva inject hack should be allowed as well then, nothing really different then saving myself few clicks every 40s.
why would you even want that -,.- isn't it better to have something challenging? it would be boring to use it :X
Ever heard of steroids?
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On June 10 2011 06:05 Pochtli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 05:59 Dia wrote:On June 10 2011 05:55 Defrag wrote:
How can anyone argue this should be allowed?
I guess larva inject hack should be allowed as well then, nothing really different then saving myself few clicks every 40s.
why would you even want that -,.- isn't it better to have something challenging? It's naive to think that all of the people play to improve and have a fair game (in anything really, not just SC2) rather than get profit, whether it is ladder points, money and whatnot. Some people go further down the road than others in helping themselves to achieve these things.
well i am talking about myself, and asking him if he really does not feel the same as i do. I know there are ppl who want to get it done the easy way, but those ppl are just.. idk...
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On June 10 2011 06:02 Phenny wrote:
I never understand why so many TLers get so worked up over the most unimportant and insignificant things. I mean 30 pages for promoting macros (I know they ~shouldn't be used~), but if you're going to go up in arms at everything that people do that they shouldn't you gunna have a pretty tough life.
how dare they be concerned about the integrity of the game.
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Grubby is as much to blame for this as SteelSeries.
For those that say that it is 'OK' because he got money... SteelSeries did it for money as well... Who are you trying to fool?
In my eyes, Grubby just lost all respect.
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On June 10 2011 06:09 baby elephant wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:02 Phenny wrote:
I never understand why so many TLers get so worked up over the most unimportant and insignificant things. I mean 30 pages for promoting macros (I know they ~shouldn't be used~), but if you're going to go up in arms at everything that people do that they shouldn't you gunna have a pretty tough life. how dare they be concerned about the integrity of the game.
Actual pros dont give a shit because they know it doesnt change shit.
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On June 10 2011 05:19 Vulcano wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 05:01 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:48 ptbl wrote:On June 10 2011 04:45 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:29 deadjon wrote:On June 10 2011 04:26 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:17 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 04:13 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:11 Simberto wrote:On June 10 2011 04:10 Egyptian_Head wrote:
[quote]
From the video description
Disclaimer: Macro's are usually not legal in public StarCraft II tournaments, but can be a good tool when no playing competitively. Grubby, being a professional player, naturally is not using these features on a day-to-day basis - but is simply demonstrating the use of the keyboard and software.
Your tournament scenario is irrelevant. Nothing is on the line, play experience not changed... not seeing a problem. Are you seriously arguing that you don't care whether people cheat on ladder? Not if it doesn't affect my playing experience. Why would I? You are openly admitting that any unfair and cheating play does not matter as long as the game plays the same for you. As long as your game does what you want it to do when you tell it, you don't care if your opponent map hacks. I am failing to see the logic, but I will leave you to your delusions. Map hacks do change my game experience. I cannot hide anything, drops are pointless etc. It just ruins my fun. Macro keyboard does not ruin my fun. Map hacks automate scounting, no? Keyboard macros automate APM, no? Both would ruin my fun. But I don't see how this is an argument of "fun" but rather an argument regarding a large esports sponsor openly condoning actions against Blizzards ToS. That's bad IMO. The first person quoting cut off the first part of my post which says that I think people are taking this too seriously not that they should or should not be allowed. Im only arguing that people are taking this way to seriously, im not arguing that they are or are not allowed or even should or should not be allowed. Just that people are taking it to seriously. Your attitude of accepting cheating as part of the game scares me. What's going to stop you cheating by using the macros? You said you don't mind if an opponent uses the macros to cheat. What's going to stop you from doing the same if you think cheating is ok? This is what really scares me that there are people who share your beliefs and who cheat in the game because they think it's ok. If you had read this entire loooong quote you would know I have been saying that someone else using a macro keyboard does not affect my playing experience. Me using a macro keyboard on the other hand does affect my play experience. In this case for the worse, I like challenging games and a macro keyboard according to people in this thread would make the game easier hence I will not use it. What boogles my mind is why do people care what other do if it is not affecting how they experience the game. If you think it does affect how you experience the game great, I disagree. You are still taking this whole macro keyboard thing this far to seriously which is the entire point of everything I have said. your ability to pretend two players using vastly different control mechanics, one being greatly simplified, are equal, due to the MMS, is astounding. It sounds to me like you are trying to say.. "I like to be challenged, whether by fair or unfair competition, because i am too tough or stubborn to be affected my macro keyboards and so everyone else should feel that way, contrary to the published literature foreboding such advantages which was actually written by the authority on such things.."
Pretty much.
I am saying is everyone is taking it to seriously because it does not affect your experience playing the game. The ladder system negates any bad side effects it has. Im not arguing that it should be allowed, that's up to blizzard. I see people more upset by macro keyboards than third world hunger. Its rather amusing.
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Grubby take the money and run.
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On June 10 2011 06:09 willoc wrote:
Grubby is as much to blame for this as SteelSeries.
For those that say that it is 'OK' because he got money... SteelSeries did it for money as well... Who are you trying to fool?
In my eyes, Grubby just lost all respect.
grubby getting paid helps grubby.. steelseries gettin paid helps SS's capital. Grubby, hypothetically, took 2% of the profits from the exchange, while steelseries the other 98%. proportionate blame? 2pts bad for grubby, 98 pts bad for SS
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grubby has nothing to do with this, he'd be an idiot to morally reject the proposition steelseries gave him. while we're at it, why don't we vilify idra for promoting kingston hyperx ram because of the working conditions the silicon miners endured.
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The only time I used macros are when I played WoW to make food and water for my raid parties.
I don't see why you should use it in competitive SC2 (even laddering). I find all those extra things I have to keep watch of (such as larvae injects) exciting.
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Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% where it actually matters already have regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$.
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This pretty much means I'm not buying steelseries products.I don't support companies that promote cheating in Starcraft 2. The integrity of the game must be upheld and protected. I'll stick with Razer for now.
I never really followed grubby, so it won't be a huge issue for me. However my respect for him as a Starcraft 2 player has been lowered a notch.
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On June 10 2011 06:17 dar0za wrote:
grubby has nothing to do with this, he'd be an idiot to morally reject the proposition steelseries gave him. while we're at it, why don't we vilify idra for promoting kingston hyperx ram because of the working conditions the silicon miners endured.
wow, that's a long shot comparison.
Grubby&SS are promoting SC2 cheating, and Idra&HyperX should be blamed for components used for creating memory sticks? what?
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On June 10 2011 06:12 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 05:19 Vulcano wrote:On June 10 2011 05:01 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:48 ptbl wrote:On June 10 2011 04:45 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:29 deadjon wrote:On June 10 2011 04:26 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:17 JFCycWalker wrote:On June 10 2011 04:13 Egyptian_Head wrote:On June 10 2011 04:11 Simberto wrote:
[quote]
Are you seriously arguing that you don't care whether people cheat on ladder?
Not if it doesn't affect my playing experience. Why would I? You are openly admitting that any unfair and cheating play does not matter as long as the game plays the same for you. As long as your game does what you want it to do when you tell it, you don't care if your opponent map hacks. I am failing to see the logic, but I will leave you to your delusions. Map hacks do change my game experience. I cannot hide anything, drops are pointless etc. It just ruins my fun. Macro keyboard does not ruin my fun. Map hacks automate scounting, no? Keyboard macros automate APM, no? Both would ruin my fun. But I don't see how this is an argument of "fun" but rather an argument regarding a large esports sponsor openly condoning actions against Blizzards ToS. That's bad IMO. The first person quoting cut off the first part of my post which says that I think people are taking this too seriously not that they should or should not be allowed. Im only arguing that people are taking this way to seriously, im not arguing that they are or are not allowed or even should or should not be allowed. Just that people are taking it to seriously. Your attitude of accepting cheating as part of the game scares me. What's going to stop you cheating by using the macros? You said you don't mind if an opponent uses the macros to cheat. What's going to stop you from doing the same if you think cheating is ok? This is what really scares me that there are people who share your beliefs and who cheat in the game because they think it's ok. If you had read this entire loooong quote you would know I have been saying that someone else using a macro keyboard does not affect my playing experience. Me using a macro keyboard on the other hand does affect my play experience. In this case for the worse, I like challenging games and a macro keyboard according to people in this thread would make the game easier hence I will not use it. What boogles my mind is why do people care what other do if it is not affecting how they experience the game. If you think it does affect how you experience the game great, I disagree. You are still taking this whole macro keyboard thing this far to seriously which is the entire point of everything I have said. your ability to pretend two players using vastly different control mechanics, one being greatly simplified, are equal, due to the MMS, is astounding. It sounds to me like you are trying to say.. "I like to be challenged, whether by fair or unfair competition, because i am too tough or stubborn to be affected my macro keyboards and so everyone else should feel that way, contrary to the published literature foreboding such advantages which was actually written by the authority on such things.." Pretty much. I am saying is everyone is taking it to seriously because it does not affect your experience playing the game. The ladder system negates any bad side effects it has. Im not arguing that it should be allowed, that's up to blizzard. I see people more upset by macro keyboards than third world hunger. Its rather amusing.
lol @ the ladder system correcting anything to do with macro keyboards.. if anything, macro keyboards affect ones placement on the ladder system, thus being manipulated in the opposite fashion as you described. and yes, it is up to blizzard, as described in the ToS .. so which is it, we shouldnt care if they are used or we are taking the topic too seriously
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On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% already has regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$.
I care, and I bet many others do. I think most players. not only pros, want to play the game on even terms, knowing that your opponent does not have any advantage outside of his own skill. Fair play is not only meant for professional competition.
If you use a mouse and keyboard for CoD on a console, when it's not supported, that's unfair to other players. You may think you have fun, but you are ruining the fun for many others. Players who have bought the game for their $50. They payed that money, expecting be able to play the game with other players using the gamepad for which the game was intended.
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On June 10 2011 06:19 ptbl wrote:
This pretty much means I'm not buying steelseries products.I don't support companies that promote cheating in Starcraft 2. The integrity of the game must be upheld and protected. I'll stick with Razer for now.
Good thing Razer does not sell macro keyboar....
Shit.
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On June 10 2011 06:24 Ejohrik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:17 Seide wrote:
Who cares, 99% of people are not progamers who contribute anything to the proscene outside of viewership. For them its a matter of taste, that other 1% already has regulations against it.
I use a mouse and keyboard to play CoD on xbox 360, I know it gives me an unfair advantage, but what do I care? I play the game solely for fun on my own terms, not on the terms of random people on forums. Same can be said for this issue.
Its my 50$. I care, and I bet many others do. I think most players. not only pros, want to play the game on even terms, knowing that your opponent does not have any advantage outside of his own skill. Fair play is not only meant for professional competition. If you use a mouse and keyboard for CoD on a console, when it's not supported, that's unfair to other players. You may think you have fun, but you are ruining the fun for many others. Players who have bought the game for their $50. They payed that money, expecting be able to play the game with other players using the gamepad for which the game was intended.
yes yes +1 +1 the only ppl who 'dont care' are the ones justifying the use of such cheaperies
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The OP is pretty dang condemning when the issue is nothing of the sort. People just like to stir shit I suppose.
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On June 10 2011 06:24 Hypemeup wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:19 ptbl wrote:
This pretty much means I'm not buying steelseries products.I don't support companies that promote cheating in Starcraft 2. The integrity of the game must be upheld and protected. I'll stick with Razer for now. Good thing Razer does not sell macro keyboar.... Shit.
Please link me to a youtube video or article where Razer has promoted their macro keyboard to be used for Starcraft 2.
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EPT
