EPTWTF!!! Random isn't random - Page 3
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Nal_Testie
Canada1257 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12237 Posts
On December 25 2004 13:53 Orlandu wrote: Oh I wasn't saying anything about BW, I was just commenting on the coin logic. I guess I'd have to look into the whole BW-Random debate before I could make an opinion. Oh okay, so the coin logic and the BW randomizer aren't necessarily related (disregarding the obvious internal-clock that all computer randomizers use)? | ||
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Orlandu
China2450 Posts
On December 25 2004 13:58 Excalibur_Z wrote: Oh okay, so the coin logic and the BW randomizer aren't necessarily related (disregarding the obvious internal-clock that all computer randomizers use)? I just edited my post, but yeah I think it would be pretty wrong to relate the two arguments. I could be wrong, but I don't see why there would be a relation. Computers just don't function the same way as a coin toss. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12237 Posts
On December 25 2004 13:53 Orlandu wrote: Most likely Blizzard's algorithm is based off of a timer, so you could possibly have an algorithm where if you start the game very quickly right away each time, you might get the same race much more often because of the timer. That's IF the timer starts each time a game is created/or someone joins or whatever. There's lots of possiblities. I don't think any of them are truly random though, more dependent on some variable like the timer, and when you actually start the game would be my best guess. The thing is, internal-clock randomizers go down to the... what is it... millisecond? nanosecond? While I suppose it would be possible to create some kind of script so you'd always get the same race whenever you chose Random, it would be nearly impossible for a human to have that kind of timing, assuming someone was even able to figure out which cpu-tick translated to which race was selected. | ||
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Nal_Testie
Canada1257 Posts
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Orlandu
China2450 Posts
On December 25 2004 14:01 Excalibur_Z wrote: The thing is, internal-clock randomizers go down to the... what is it... millisecond? nanosecond? While I suppose it would be possible to create some kind of script so you'd always get the same race whenever you chose Random, it would be nearly impossible for a human to have that kind of timing, assuming someone was even able to figure out which cpu-tick translated to which race was selected. Probably. I'm not really sure how it works or how it would work. But I don't think it functions as what we would call "luck" like the coin toss. I guess you could call it random as far as our needs and concerns go, but I don't think it would be truly random. I dunno, I could be totally wrong on that, but it just seems that way to me. I don't know nearly enough about computers to make a factual statement like that =] | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36379 Posts
this way you can almost always figure out at least one of your opp's races. if you and your partner get... z/z, t/t, p/p, your opponents are the other two races any other combo, at least one of your opponents is the race you are not it's impossible to conclude anything when you say something like "oh, it randomed to terran for me five times yesterday! its biased!" first your sample size is way too small, and the nature of random allows for stuff like terran five times in a row. i'm pretty sure the more than one random player in a game bias is right, someone test it! | ||
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Nal_Testie
Canada1257 Posts
You fucking idiot. I was saying what I was saying as fact. Not even speculation or a hypothesis. IF 8 players random there will be 3/3/2 If 4 players random there will be 2/1/1 IT WILL NEVER EVER EVER BE DIFFERENT Stop pissing me off. | ||
Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
Haha. | ||
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gg_hertzz
2152 Posts
You might get T 4/5 times and think that there probably is a pattern, but it could also be random and you would not know it. How can you know if it's random or not? You could get T 99/100 times and it could still be random. How could you know? | ||
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ShabZzoY!
Great Britain760 Posts
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LogaiN
Sweden1073 Posts
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gg_hertzz
2152 Posts
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SoL.Origin
Argentina2400 Posts
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HnR)Pride
Canada297 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
90% TvZ -__- | ||
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NuclearAntelope
United States1369 Posts
On December 25 2004 13:05 Excalibur_Z wrote: No it's still a 1/3 chance =) Again I'll use coin-flipping as an example. If you get Heads 3 times in a row, the chances of that happening aren't 1/8, they're still 1/2. If you flip a coin 3 times, you have these possibilities: H = heads, T = Tails HHH HHT HTH THH TTT THT HTT TTH how is it 1/2 chance to get HHH? | ||
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Redan
Poland7 Posts
1/9 * 1/9 * 1/9 = 1/729 Chance to get ZvT three times in a row Simple? | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28702 Posts
and mirror matches are very very rare in 1v1 matches I remember when me and testie played on coulee in the blizzard map tourney he claimed that I was zerg and I was protoss and I instantly "knew" that he was either terran or made the claim to confuse me, because if he was zerg he would not think that I was zerg, and he wouldn't be protoss cause I was protoss. I believe I then said "well im terran and its not a mirror matchup so you're toss then" to confuse him back though.  as for the other ongoing discussion, excalibur and everyone else are talking about different things if you have flipped heads 3 times in a row, the chance of getting it a fourth time is not 1/16, it's 1/2 but flipping heads 3 times in a row in the first place only happens 1/8 of the time. likewise if you've randomed terran 5 times in a row it's still 33% likely that you will random terran in your next game. I've checked my replay folder before and I think I had 35% zerg 34% protoss and 31% terran. the slight lack of terran is however explainable with me normally only saving wins, and winning sliightly less with terran. | ||
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Nal_Testie
Canada1257 Posts
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