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On April 28 2011 02:40 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
also, a lot of republicans are really intelligent and sensible people who really understand how money works and stick to their moderated, sensible values. except, there are a lot of bad republicans lately crawling out before 2012.
You think this crap is new? Maybe a lot of people in this forum are too young to have remembered the politics of the mid-90s. We had a US congressman shooting a watermelon in his back yard to somehow prove that Vince Foster was assassinated by Bill Clinton to cover up for... something. There was a congressional investigation into Chelsea Clinton's goddamn slumber parties.
Ecclesiastes 1
3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.
7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
8 All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
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On April 28 2011 03:13 NoobSkills wrote:
You do realize that the Democrats wouldn't have let him lead their party if he wasn't actually a US citizen. The risk would be too big if all of a sudden Republicans could point out that he wasn't a citizen while he was running.
For those that say racism meh maybe, but if he was white and didn't want to show his birth certificate the story would still happen. Each side attempts to slander the other.
If he was white there wouldn't be this question because his father wouldn't be Kenyan
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hasn't this always been a silly issue?
At first I sort of cared about this whole ordeal, but then I realized. It doesn't matter all that much either way, and I don't give two shits about it. All it does is detract from all the things I have real issues with, which are his policies.
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Canada11372 Posts
Yeah, won't convince birthers.
Straight from Fox News' comments as I was reading their article:
There are still a couple of things that just don't make sense. 1. There are only two types of certificates, Birth Certificate and Certificate of Live Birth. I have both of mine and have viewed them. The Birth Certificate only gives name, hospital and date. Plus, it is my understanding that it can be issued even for a stillborn. However, only the Certificate of Live Birth documents place, date, time of birth, weight/length of baby and parents names, residence, place of birth, race, etc, etc. In this regard, I question the appearance of two Certificates of Live Birth, a "long" and "short" form. 2. The term "African" is not used to describe race. It has only been used to state the country of origin. During the early 60's other terms would have been used to describe race. Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/27/white-house-releases-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate/#ixzz1KkQC4Zkfbet is as phoney as him - Thank you Mr. Trump for doing what noone could - Stay on the school records - Thank you for exposing the fraud - Love It - Trump for President - He gets things done
Those who are still supporting Serial Liar Obama, even when Trump played him and got him to blink, are hilarious in their attempts to prop Obama up.
This birth certificate issue does not solve Obama's eligibility problems. His main, continuing and most toxic problem is that his father was not an American citizen -- he was born in Africa. This automatically makes Obama NOT ELIGIBLE to be President. Will FOX comment on this??? IT's written in the U.S. Constitution.....................................
So what? - a pretend birth certificate for a pretend prseident
The fact that it took 2 1/2 years and that he paid millions to block his documents raises a red flag in my mind. People do not pay millions if its not a big deal.PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!! He's definitely hiding something that may interfere with his presidential status. Now we need to see his college docs. Trump was told by Hawaiian officials that the original long form was lost or missing. All of a sudden the White House has a copy. Very peculiar if you ask me. If its lost then how does the White House have it?
Of course there's a lot of lib's in the comments gloating. The really frustrating about the Republican leaders is they won't every say that, yes the entire thing was ridiculous. NOW they're saying that it's distracting from the main debate and that Obama shouldn't have to indulge the birthers. Where were those Republicans two years ago??
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On April 28 2011 02:57 emythrel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 02:48 winter017 wrote:
This should have been resolved a long time ago. The fact that he let this issue sit for two years just proves how much of a partisan hack Obama is. The president is supposed to elevate the national discussion. This whole issue should be nothing but an embarassment for everyone involved. He's a partisan hack for actually doing his job and ignoring all the bullshit the republicans spew each day? The guy has to deal with a thousand issues, he RUNS THE DAMN COUNTRY and you expect him to spend time dealing with nonsense like his birth certificate? lol..... you have no idea how the real world works. The only reason he released it now was because its taking up too much of the news cycle and there are far more important things to discuss, he is doing what he is supposed to do.... lead. Unlike Bush who would have spent two weeks proving he was born in the US, using every waking moment to show us some new evidence, pictures taken in the hospital, phone records blah blah. You are right this should have been resolved long ago, when the first person said "I don't think Obama was born in the US" the person standing next to them should have hit them very hard and told them to shut up. Instead a bunch of republicans rallied around the idea for a while to try to swing an election, it failed.... so then they tried to use it to halt Obama's presidency, it failed. It almost died off, we almost were rid of it..... then the republican primary season started to approach and Trump started spouting it again...... backup up by fewer republicans this time, but still FOX news were banging the drum..... the ones who kept this story going were REPUBLICANS and right wing news outlets (countered ultimately by Left/Center news outlets which just makes the issue worse), not Obama.... you really have no idea what you are talking about, its like you heard Glenn Beck say "Obama is a partisan hack" and thought "Hmm, I don't know what that means but if Glenn Beck says it, it must be true".
Umm, what?
Partisan Hack could be defined as pretty much ignoring Republicans on the healthcare debate, ignoring them on going to war with Libya(which Congress still hasn't approved, iirc), and trying to get his Democratic Congress to vote on a budget during the lame-duck so the Republicans wouldn't get a chance to implement their own budget.
Second, Obama's obviously had a plenty of free time since he's constantly playing Golf and dropping in for interviews on comedy shows.
Third, punching out a person who disagrees with you on something(even if it's ridiculous) is very undemocratic, and is an insult to freedom of speech. You should be ashamed for proposing violence as a solution.
Fourth, no one in the Congressional Republican Leadership has suggested, or challenged, his citizenship and legitimacy to the Presidency. Trump has been pretty liberal in the past, said some pretty deplorable things about Bush, and is just now coming out "OH HEY I'M A CONSERVATIVE TOO!" He's just a hack, and will probably cost Republicans the election when he loses the primary and runs as an independent to split the anti-Obama vote(he'd pull at least 2-6% of the vote).
Lastly, mainstream conservative news outlets, like Fox News, have never suggested that he was born outside of the country.
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On April 28 2011 02:57 Iodem wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 02:55 Suisen wrote:
McCain wasn't born in the US. What is the issue?
It's like Obama denying he is a Muslim but never saying "So what!?
So racist. McCain was born on a Military Base in Panama. As the base counts as US soil, he qualifies.
Unfortunately, the literal word of the Constitution is the following:
"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."
"natural born citizen" has never been officially interpreted by the Supreme Court in terms of what it means in this instance. For example, is a person born by C-section or IVF "natural born?" It's never been officially interpreted, but reasonable people would recognize that C-section or IVF is acceptable and military bases in Panama count as US soil, but it's cut and dry.
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On April 28 2011 03:21 Iodem wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 02:57 emythrel wrote:On April 28 2011 02:48 winter017 wrote:
This should have been resolved a long time ago. The fact that he let this issue sit for two years just proves how much of a partisan hack Obama is. The president is supposed to elevate the national discussion. This whole issue should be nothing but an embarassment for everyone involved. He's a partisan hack for actually doing his job and ignoring all the bullshit the republicans spew each day? The guy has to deal with a thousand issues, he RUNS THE DAMN COUNTRY and you expect him to spend time dealing with nonsense like his birth certificate? lol..... you have no idea how the real world works. The only reason he released it now was because its taking up too much of the news cycle and there are far more important things to discuss, he is doing what he is supposed to do.... lead. Unlike Bush who would have spent two weeks proving he was born in the US, using every waking moment to show us some new evidence, pictures taken in the hospital, phone records blah blah. You are right this should have been resolved long ago, when the first person said "I don't think Obama was born in the US" the person standing next to them should have hit them very hard and told them to shut up. Instead a bunch of republicans rallied around the idea for a while to try to swing an election, it failed.... so then they tried to use it to halt Obama's presidency, it failed. It almost died off, we almost were rid of it..... then the republican primary season started to approach and Trump started spouting it again...... backup up by fewer republicans this time, but still FOX news were banging the drum..... the ones who kept this story going were REPUBLICANS and right wing news outlets (countered ultimately by Left/Center news outlets which just makes the issue worse), not Obama.... you really have no idea what you are talking about, its like you heard Glenn Beck say "Obama is a partisan hack" and thought "Hmm, I don't know what that means but if Glenn Beck says it, it must be true". Umm, what? Partisan Hack could be defined as pretty much ignoring Republicans on the healthcare debate, ignoring them on going to war with Libya(which Congress still hasn't approved, iirc), and trying to get his Democratic Congress to vote on a budget during the lame-duck so the Republicans wouldn't get a chance to implement their own budget. Second, Obama's obviously had a plenty of free time since he's constantly playing Golf and dropping in for interviews on comedy shows. Third, punching out a person who disagrees with you on something(even if it's ridiculous) is very undemocratic, and is an insult to freedom of speech. You should be ashamed for proposing violence as a solution. Fourth, no one in the Congressional Republican Leadership has suggested, or challenged, his citizenship and legitimacy to the Presidency. Trump has been pretty liberal in the past, said some pretty deplorable things about Bush, and is just now coming out "OH HEY I'M A CONSERVATIVE TOO!" He's just a hack, and will probably cost Republicans the election when he loses the primary and runs as an independent to split the anti-Obama vote(he'd pull at least 2-6% of the vote). Lastly, mainstream conservative news outlets, like Fox News, have never suggested that he was born outside of the country.
I know what a party hack is, and you make good points about Obama... I wasn't saying he isn't a hack, he might be for all i know... my point was calling him a hack for wanting to do his job instead of spending time on this birther BS is not being a party hack and that the poster obviously didn't understand the term.....
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On April 28 2011 02:48 winter017 wrote:
This should have been resolved a long time ago. The fact that he let this issue sit for two years just proves how much of a partisan hack Obama is. The president is supposed to elevate the national discussion. This whole issue should be nothing but an embarassment for everyone involved.
uhh he didn't let the issue sit for two years.. he released the short-form birth certificate years ago when the issue first came up.. the white house also referenced two announcements of his birth in local Hawaii newspapers which would 100% put the issue to rest for anyone who has half a brain (since it's impossible to "forge" newspaper announcements from 50 years ago) Also, countless health officials from Hawaii released multiple statements saying he was born in the state and verifying the documents already released were authentic. Yet this still wasn't good enough... if all that evidence isn't good enough then obviously nothing will be good enough beause you have to be a complete moron (or more likely racist) to still think he wasn't born in the US after so much overwhelming evidence. he had no obligation at all to release the long-form just to appease a bunch of crazies... he's most likely choosing to release the long-form now to finally put the issue to rest once and for all and shut up the birthers... so please don't say Obama "sat" on the issue for 2 years without doing anything.. he addressed the issue and provided overwhelming 100% proof years ago..
the only people this issue is an "embarassment" for is the birthers and Donal Trump.
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Am I the only one who things this whole think might end up helping Obama for next elections?
I mean, many Obama supporters were getting pissed off at him during these last few years for his bad performance. But now they have another reason to sympathize with the poor guy being victim of racism again, instead of criticizing a bad president.
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Bread and Circus. Such a shame a total non-issue like this distracts from real issues.
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On April 28 2011 01:09 muffley wrote:![[image loading]](http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll307/hillbillypharmacist/internetlol/foxbirfcertifct.jpg) Hilarious.
Fox News "Fair and balanced". HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Anyway. The whole thing is so retarded it seriously hurts.
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On April 28 2011 03:25 MangoTango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 02:57 Iodem wrote:On April 28 2011 02:55 Suisen wrote:
McCain wasn't born in the US. What is the issue?
It's like Obama denying he is a Muslim but never saying "So what!?
So racist. McCain was born on a Military Base in Panama. As the base counts as US soil, he qualifies. Unfortunately, the literal word of the Constitution is the following: Show nested quote +"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States." "natural born citizen" has never been officially interpreted by the Supreme Court in terms of what it means in this instance. For example, is a person born by C-section or IVF "natural born?" It's never been officially interpreted, but reasonable people would recognize that C-section or IVF is acceptable and military bases in Panama count as US soil, but it's cut and dry.
Might I bring your attention to this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Born_Citizen_Clause#Presidential_candidates_whose_eligibility_was_questioned
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My favorite part of stories like these is that the believers never question and get angry at the people that lied to them about these things (Fox News, Donald Trump, extremest blogs). Rather, they just pick up their shovel and start digging a deeper hole of delusion.
Do these people realize they look just as dumb as 9/11 conspiracists, vaccine conspiracists, and moon landing conspiracists?
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On April 28 2011 03:25 MangoTango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 02:57 Iodem wrote:On April 28 2011 02:55 Suisen wrote:
McCain wasn't born in the US. What is the issue?
It's like Obama denying he is a Muslim but never saying "So what!?
So racist. McCain was born on a Military Base in Panama. As the base counts as US soil, he qualifies. Unfortunately, the literal word of the Constitution is the following: Show nested quote +"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States." "natural born citizen" has never been officially interpreted by the Supreme Court in terms of what it means in this instance. For example, is a person born by C-section or IVF "natural born?" It's never been officially interpreted, but reasonable people would recognize that C-section or IVF is acceptable and military bases in Panama count as US soil, but it's cut and dry.
Natural born citizen means citizen from birth..... not born in the US. If ur mother or father are a US citizen... so you are you, no matter where you are born. Its there to stop someone gaining citizenship later in life and then running for president (i.e someone like Arnie). Basically if you have american blood in you, and are registered as a citizen at birth, you can be born on the moon and still be president, according to the term "natural born citizen"... there is no need for interpretation by anyone, the term is pretty self explanatory to anyone who speaks English.
For someone with parents who aren't US citizens, being born in the US the only way to be allowed to run for president, but someone with US citizens for parents is a citizen by birthright. I guess if you were born to US parents but were registered as say a UK citizen, you wouldn't be able to be president... and i get that, your parents registered you as a UK citizen at birth... not US.... but if you were born in the UK, then registered as a US citizen 2 days later (i.e parents were on holiday and mom went into premature labour) you are a US citizen from birth, by birth right and by official document.
I swear, this wouldn't even be an issue in the UK, if we ever have a presidential system. To be a natural born UK citizen, you just have to have a grandparent who was born here and be registered as a UK citizen before any other country (i.e if you have dual citizenship, you must be UK citizen as your primary citizenship)
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On April 28 2011 03:27 VIB wrote:
Am I the only one who things this whole think might end up helping Obama for next elections?
I mean, many Obama supporters were getting pissed off at him during these last few years for his bad performance. But now they have another reason to sympathize with the poor guy being victim of racism again, instead of criticizing a bad president.
There's a bunch of different Obama supporter opinions flying around right now.
Some think he's now proven that he'll just cave in to anything.
Some sympathize with the apparent racism
Some applaud the 'I've got better things to do' attitude
Some are disappointed that he's acknowledging the idiots and that enough posturing will get him to do what they want
Some think its a positive political move (the Republicans can't use it as ammunition in the middle of the generals)
Some think its a negative political move (can't drop the 'oh here's my birth certificate' bomb in the middle of the generals)
In any case, even if the birthers aren't actually appeased (they will never be), the media will finally just stop talking about it. It's no-longer an item worth discussing. Even the current Fox News editorial pieces on the matter aren't trying to bring up any controversy of a faked birth certificate.
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What a country.
The funny thing is that this is not going to appease the "birthers" at all. Nothing will.
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I still don't understand how birthers ignore the fact that there was an announcement of birth in the newspaper the week he was born... well other than the fact that that no information will satisfy them. I think it's best to ignore the crazies.
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Can we talk about the politics of this release?
First, I want to say I never doubted his citizenship.
That being said, a lot of people do, including several mainstream republican candidates for president (Trump and Huckabee have claimed it outright, and others have hinted at it). This issue was shaping up to be a pretty significant part of the republican primary process. Candidates looking to get the republican nomination would likely have at least flirted with birther ideas, if not embraced them fully. This means the eventual nominee will be pretty far right, and would look pretty foolish if he campaigned in part on birtherism, which most Americans thought was a little crazy to begin with.
Wouldn't it have been smarter (politically) to release this during either A) the republican primary season or B) during the general election? I just don't see any reason to do it now.
If he would have waited, there were real political gains to be made. Releasing it during the primaries could seriously hinder any birther candidates among mainstream voters. If there's a candidate during the primaries that looks too strong in the general, but is also a birther, Obama could have released his long-form birth certificate in order to prevent that candidate from reaching the general election to begin with.
The same holds true with the general election. If a birther gets the republican nomination, Obama could have released his long-form birth certificate then in order to damage that candidate among moderate voters.
The far-right gave Obama a huge political weapon here, and he squandered it. I think this was poorly planned timing.
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Well how do we even know this "Hawaii" is part of the united states? If it's actually a state then why hasn't Obama provided us with a copy of the Hawaii Admission Act of 1959!?
ffs I fully expect the discussion to proceed in this direction over the next few weeks. >.>
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Also funny
PORTSMOUTH, N.H., April 27 (UPI) -- Most Americans are unsure whether TV star-real estate mogul-White House hopeful Donald Trump was born in the United States, a Gallup/USA Today poll indicated. Forty-three percent say they believe Trump was definitely born in the United States. Another 20 percent say they think he probably was, the poll said. Seven percent say Trump was probably or definitely born in another country, while 30 percent say they don't know enough to say. Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/04/27/Poll-Most-unsure-where-Trump-was-born/UPI-89591303887600/#ixzz1KkaCozqa
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EPT
