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On April 25 2011 01:32 SeraKuDA wrote:
The fact is that nobody even gave my idea a chance, or tried to work it out a little bit. It was instantly shut down because it wasn't directly from Blizzard. Hypocrites.
You proposed something that, on the face of it, does not work. Blizzard proposed something that could work. They proposed a more nuanced and plausible idea than you did.
It is your responsibility, as the person proposing the idea, to propose a good idea. It is not the responsibility of the reader to propose other changes in addition to yours to make your bad idea work.
On April 25 2011 03:00 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 02:09 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 25 2011 01:58 Grumbels wrote:
[Personally I think that warpgate is a crutch for many protosses and that if it was somewhat changed, that then there would be more room for some interesting design by Blizzard. I wouldn't descrbe warpgate tech as a crutch. Each race has built in mechanics that are very powerful. The ability to build as many mutalisks as you have larva as soon as the spire pops for Zerg is an amazing advantage (if you build a stargate, you can build exactly 1 void ray when it finishes, with a spire the number is limited only to resources and larva). The ability to drop down mules, scans, or supplies and build planetary fortresses is amazing too. The point is, each race has weaknesses and strengths. We like to whine about the strengths, but we often don't look at the weaknesses. Protoss units in generally would need buffs and more mobility (Protoss units in general lack mobility except for the Stalker and Pheonix, and the Stalker is a "Ranged Support Unit" that lacks DPS, and the Pheonix has limited uses) if warpgate tech was taken away. Just like Terran units would need to cost less and detection would have to be more readily available in their tech tree if Terrans couldn't build Orbitals. These could be described as crutches, but they are the strengths of each race, and naturally players lean on their strengths. And I think these strengths are what makes the game interesting. That's meaningless. You can call everything strong a race has a 'strength', that is a 'unique feature'. Warpgate could severely be nerfed, while still allowing you to use it for mobility. I call it a crutch because protoss is dependent on warpgates to make almost all of their offensive timings work, and they use it to make drop defense work too. These aspects could be weakened a bit, with other things designed to take their place, and this way protoss would ..certainly change, but I think for the best, since they would no longer be this dependent on a single mechanic.
Please. Every race has mechanics that they absolutely rely on for various things; that's the nature of the beast. The Zerg are built around one specific mechanic: all their units come from a single source. Everything about the Zerg is based on this. This is what makes StarCraft good; that each race has these unique facets that you must use in order to properly play them.
If you weaken these unique aspects of races, then the races become more similar to one another. That's why Warp-in was invented in the first place: to help differentiate the races, since in SC1, Terrans and Protosses produced units in very similar ways.
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I've always thought it weird that warp gates build units faster than gateways. If I were to design SC2, I would have the build times reversed, so that you had to choose between mobility or production. But I'm not the designer of SC2, and I don't think it's possible to do such a dramatic change in a patch at this point.
It's good that Blizzard is keeping tabs on the gameplay, and I'm sure Heart of the Swarm will bring as much or more to SC2 as Broodwar did to SC.
Since I fail at reading the thread,
On April 24 2011 04:32 RifleCow wrote:
Why don't they just flip the build times for Warpgate/Gateway after the Warpgate research is finished. So after you finish Gateway research you get the more units, faster for producing out of Gateway. And then the Warpgate takes on the old speed of the gateway.
I think this is a great suggestion, or something along those lines. It gives the defensive player the advantage in warpgate battles.
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"educing build time of protoss tier 1-1.5 units" I like it
That's a lot better imo, for both chees and long term
P can have like bunch of zealots sentrys stalkers a lot sooner w/ less b.time+ c.boost
good def and can put early pressure better
and proxy gateway zealot rush is a lot better
and i don't really care for mid game, just build 3-4 more extra warp gate
that will do
I don't see why they look in particular match up(PvP) but not the whole game
Whatever, people will find someway to play, just hope the patch will not make things worse.
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On April 22 2011 17:36 Mentymion wrote:
Well, dunno if it was worth a new topic, but for me it is xD
well 50 pages of comment says it was worth a topic o.o
if blizzard do nerf the WG but buff the gateway i sense 2gate zealot rush against Z happening a lot
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If this happens I wonder if we will see a few gateways and a few wg together as a standard for protoss - for defence and attack. It would make the PvP more weighted towards the defender and would shouldn't adversely affect the vZ and vT matchups. Should also lead to a bit more variation in PvP games - can get an army bigger faster but it doesn't warp there, or I can warp about the place but have fewer units.
Thumbs up from me.
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I have mixed feeling about this.
Decreasing gateway unit production times will be really hard to for Terran to stop things like 11 gate chronoboosted zealot, or even 12 gate chronoboosted stalker zealot.
Currently,
In the first scenario on large maps, the zealot arrives just as the second marine is pops out.
With stalker/zealot, its already extremely deadly if you choose to get a reactor on your rax as opposed to a tech lab.
I don't know how blizzard will balance this.
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I have actually been hoping for a change like this. As a bronze level toss player, I'm not a fan of 4gating, so I am interested to see what happens after they remove that strategy
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they should take warp gate out completley and make it so immortals have 3 attacks.
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Does anyone think they should also bring back those phase shifting photon cannons like back in the trailers so they are given the ability to relocate like spine crawlers?
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This actually may be interesting to see.
Warp gates vs Gateways? Who knows. Hopefully they let people test this before they release it officially.
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If they seriously make Gateways cooldown shorter than Warpgate cooldown, tons of interesting stuff can happen. So many more options, and there's new macro mechanics between gateways and warpins.
Protoss can actually stop being underpowered =D
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On April 25 2011 13:38 ScythedBlade wrote:
If they seriously make Gateways cooldown shorter than Warpgate cooldown, tons of interesting stuff can happen. So many more options, and there's new macro mechanics between gateways and warpins.
Protoss can actually stop being underpowered =D
good players will manage their gate modes properly and warp in and gate queue based on the tides of battle I am So stoked for this change just from a spectator's view
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If the nexus offered a huge ring of pylon power, I could see proxy nexuses becoming very popular. 
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On April 25 2011 14:15 Westabizzle wrote:If the nexus offered a huge ring of pylon power, I could see proxy nexuses becoming very popular.
I have a mod for testing stuff like this out. I made it so nexuses have a warpfield and you can only warp in units at a warp-field, not pylon power. Then instead of recall, the mothership can instantly warp in unit underneath it, with an energy cost.
It produces some interesting games, you can have psuedo-proxy gates, at the expense of 400 minerals (or 400/400). But most of all it keeps the warp in mechanic while maintaining defenders advantage.
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I think with how many problems warpgates cause they should be more of a really good way to defend with little offensive potency. Limitations on how many units you can warp in when a certain distance away from a nexus, etc.
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How about this
just remove warp gate, no wg, and have warp prism have Warp ability
and WP can warp units that is in the range of pylon.
So unit only come out of gateway, but can also warp from a place to another place.
However, this will have to include all unit, Collos-chan also lol.
But why not, it sounds fun to me : )
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On April 25 2011 14:51 Jate wrote:
How about this
just remove warp gate, no wg, and have warp prism have Warp ability
and WP can warp units that is in the range of pylon.
So unit only come out of gateway, but can also warp from a place to another place.
However, this will have to include all unit, Collos-chan also lol.
But why not, it sounds fun to me : )
It also means protoss will die 100% of the time to marine marauder pushes or roach pushes, the reason warp gates work the way they do is because zealots and stalkers get demolished without support. If blizzard removed warpgates entirely but buffed zealots and stalkers to compensate I'd be fine with that.
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On April 25 2011 14:33 Serpico wrote:
I think with how many problems warpgates cause they should be more of a really good way to defend with little offensive potency. Limitations on how many units you can warp in when a certain distance away from a nexus, etc.
With this change it'll be quite the opposite, as gateways allow faster and local production, warp gates allow for offensive power yet lacking in....power( i guess)
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On April 25 2011 14:54 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 14:33 Serpico wrote:
I think with how many problems warpgates cause they should be more of a really good way to defend with little offensive potency. Limitations on how many units you can warp in when a certain distance away from a nexus, etc. With this change it'll be quite the opposite, as gateways allow faster and local production, warp gates allow for offensive power yet lacking in....power( i guess)
The point is to really make the maps feel as big for protoss as they do for terran and zerg while keeping the mechanic useful. I like it as something defensive at any rate. How that works, blizzard is going to have to figure it out if they want to change it that much.
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I am not particularly thrilled about this. I have seen some good 2gate play which can deny warp gate pushes. Wish 4warp gate hadn't been abused so much.
I hope they don't increase the time so much that 4 warpgate will no longer be viable. Blizzard has a habit of increasing build/research times by a little too much in my opinion.
On April 25 2011 11:35 Alvas wrote:
I have actually been hoping for a change like this. As a bronze level toss player, I'm not a fan of 4gating, so I am interested to see what happens after they remove that strategy
I don't think/hope they aren't aiming to REMOVE the strategy. Just slow it down/make it less powerful.
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EPT
