EPTI think if Queens had the ability to destroy forcefields ZvP would become much more interesting. There no offensive use for this that I can think of, but Z could deny constant ramp blocks and even start sacrificing queens in order to get into good army positions. Losing queens carelessly will still punish the zerg though, because his production after will be reduced. I think it would be great, it encourages micro and doesn't seem to hard on P, while leaving TvP totally untouched.
A thorough analysis of Force Fields - Page 3
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mathemagician1986
Germany549 Posts
I think if Queens had the ability to destroy forcefields ZvP would become much more interesting. There no offensive use for this that I can think of, but Z could deny constant ramp blocks and even start sacrificing queens in order to get into good army positions. Losing queens carelessly will still punish the zerg though, because his production after will be reduced. I think it would be great, it encourages micro and doesn't seem to hard on P, while leaving TvP totally untouched. | ||
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labbe
Sweden1456 Posts
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Wochtulka
Czech Republic66 Posts
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Immanis
United States21 Posts
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Iyerbeth
England2410 Posts
But then, I'm only about to break in to Silver, so I'm probably wrong, but the concept at least feels right to me. Edit: Typo. | ||
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dras
Kazakhstan376 Posts
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entocheets
Australia367 Posts
On March 19 2011 22:14 Immanis wrote: what about if FF is researched? Would that be an adequate solution? As will provide some solution but im not sure how that will play out vs Terran I think you answered your own question there | ||
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Elwar
953 Posts
This is very reminiscent of after patch 1.3 was announced, Kheydarin Amulet was getting threads pseudo over-analysing it as if it was sooooo obviously ruining every game up until that point. Yet before that there was very little discussion on it. No one was really THAT anxious about the upgrade either way. Can people step back and say, whoa, its been eight months and nothing has changed since yesterday. Zergs are still taking games off protoss last I checked. Its not some urgent big deal, IF anything needs changing its only something small and Blizzard shouldn't be in any rush to get something rushed out, nor should anyone expect them to. | ||
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Sirion
131 Posts
Make Queens massive. That has exactly two effects: a) Queens can crush forcefields, so a ramp block can be negated, and generally the zerg player has an additional defenders advantage against force fields. b) Phoenixes can no longer lift Queens. So while drones and overlords are still vulnerable, the Queen becomes a valid defense against Phoenixes. And since Hydras seem to fail in that regard, so I consider that positive. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On March 19 2011 22:19 Elwar wrote: I must have missed the avalanche of games recently where FFs completely ruined the match for there to be this much outrage. I only saw MC vs. July, surely people aren't basing all their opinions on one series? This is very reminiscent of after patch 1.3 was announced, Kheydarin Amulet was getting threads pseudo over-analysing it as if it was sooooo obviously ruining every game up until that point. Yet before that there was very little discussion on it. No one was really THAT anxious about the upgrade either way. Can people step back and say, whoa, its been eight months and nothing has changed since yesterday. Zergs are still taking games off protoss last I checked. Its not some urgent big deal, IF anything needs changing its only something small and Blizzard shouldn't be in any rush to get something rushed out, nor should anyone expect them to. This is exactly how it was with stim with the release of SC2, marauders against Protoss during GSL1/2 and Marines after marineking started to micro them vs banelings. As soon as there is a game where someone does something well with something there is always a thread opening up about how that spell or unit should be changed. The funny thing is that you are right, If these games (July vs MC) never happened then this thread would never exist and people would be on with their days without being compelled to try get force field nerfed. Just look at what people are suggesting - Change force field to be channeling, change force field to be researched, change force field so it is one per sentry, this is exactly like a battle.net thread. No this is exactly like a battle.net thread. | ||
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sincerelysLeEpy
United States148 Posts
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TrANCE,
301 Posts
On March 19 2011 20:15 ProtossPenny wrote: If Gateway units were as good as stimmed marines and marauders then sure take FF away. But the fact of the matter is that without it, kite and stim would spell every TvP game. Your answer on the second reply... just to add and PvZ how would you deal with mass roach mid game? When you play Toss for more than five minutes you realise that if you didn't have ff you'd be sat in you base until 200/200 without ever being able to take a third Forcefields are a powerful weapon in the Toss arsenal in my opinion they are needed and i come from being a zerg player where i've lost countless time to spam forcefields on my ramp whilst they wipeout my nat then dance away but it always was my fault for being out of position. Most people can't see where they went wrong and lets go complain about forcefields instead of playing the game and working out how not to get owned by forcefields. If their are changes to be made they will make them intime but they wont/shouldn't be taking advice from the 99.9% of TL lurkers that believe they are in someway of the skill/level to be making threads because they got raped by Johnny Protoss in diamond yes me included... | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
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ki11z0ne
United States427 Posts
Whats the point of stacking energy??? 1 FF per sentry is kinda ridiculous, 100 gas is a lot of investment and the unit it self don't deal much damage. There are a lot of ways to counter forcefields, Morrow/idra use tunneling claws to counter this And if you know a sentry heavy 4 gate is coming you can have lings intercept these slow sentries or bait forcefields. Also you need skills to execute this and without them gateway units are pretty useless. Roach/MM play is basically soo good against gateway units and will delay your expandsion. [/QUOTE] well spoken if gateway units can stand up to MMM or mass roaches fine take it out....but no the both rape toss witch i find odd for some reason, but still it has to be OP for that reason and FFing does take skill (and a good computer (lag)) | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
On March 19 2011 22:22 Sirion wrote: Just a spontaneous idea I got: Make Queens massive. That has exactly two effects: a) Queens can crush forcefields, so a ramp block can be negated, and generally the zerg player has an additional defenders advantage against force fields. b) Phoenixes can no longer lift Queens. So while drones and overlords are still vulnerable, the Queen becomes a valid defense against Phoenixes. And since Hydras seem to fail in that regard, so I consider that positive. Thats actually an amazing Idea. Would save Zerg early game to Phoenix / Void ray mix where there pretty much have no AA when you lift up there like 2-3 queens. | ||
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labbe
Sweden1456 Posts
On March 19 2011 22:26 Dommk wrote: This is exactly how it was with stim with the release of SC2, marauders against Protoss during GSL1/2 and Marines after marineking started to micro them vs banelings. As soon as there is a game where someone does something well with something there is always a thread opening up about how that spell or unit should be changed. The funny thing is that you are right, If these games (July vs MC) never happened then this thread would never exist and people would be on with their days without being compelled to try get force field nerfed. Just look at what people are suggesting - Change force field to be channeling, change force field to be researched, change force field so it is one per sentry, this is exactly like a battle.net thread. No this is exactly like a battle.net thread. Actually, forcefields has been up for discussion more or less all the time since the beta. This is no new issue, it has always been there. Recent events just fueled the discussion. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On March 19 2011 21:18 Markwerf wrote: Roaches and MM are both more cost effective then gateway units straight up. Forcefields can level the playing field. Perhaps the duration of the FF is a tiny bit too high but it really isn't too bad. There are already enough ways as it is to combat sentries like EMP or tunneling claws, I really don't see a problem with the spell as it is. MC just used them godly. Yes he did. The problem is more and more protoss players are going to be using them like him as time goes by. I seen this development all the way from the time I seen Nony easily defeat a zerg in a showmatch using only sentries. I was wondering all the time why pro gamers do not abuse mass sentry more often. I think as time goes by they will get abused and sooner or later changed in some way. I remember pro zergs complaining about them all the way from beta. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On March 19 2011 22:34 labbe wrote: Actually, forcefields has been up for discussion more or less all the time since the beta. This is no new issue, it has always been there. Recent events just fueled the discussion. Look at these requested changes, most of them are so absurd. Force field has no way been near talked about this much. Look at the amount of threads made on it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=force field http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=forcefield Not a single thread about trying to get force field changed, but today, after these games it is all over the place. If these games never happened this thread would have never existed | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On March 19 2011 22:31 Benjef wrote: Thats actually an amazing Idea. Would save Zerg early game to Phoenix / Void ray mix where there pretty much have no AA when you lift up there like 2-3 queens. I am not sure if this is a good solution. This would make the early Phoenix opening against Zergs too weak in pro games. I think a better solution might be to have burrow be a tier 1 research or after you get an evo chamber. | ||
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
I also want to suggest an idea for warpgates, right now warpgates are better than gateways in every way, they warp in units everywhere and they do it faster than a gateway would, I want to see gateways making units faster than the warpgate so that warpgates are used only for adding more units to a proxy pylon or warp prism, when the protoss is done with his attack and he want to make units in his base he just turn his warpgates into gateways, I think that would add more depth into the game. Right now FF isn't too strong because people aren't good enough at using it, but in a year or two when everyone has sick good forcefields they will be way too strong. | ||
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