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I do admit that I am indeed Christian, and that I do believe in the presence of God.
However, that is not my point. Be it God, Buddha, Yahwe, or any other superior presence, it does not matter - Man has no right to judge another man's life or death.
Moreover, unfortunately, many of the laws made by humans have been derived from religious bases. Had we no religion, we would have lived in an environment with brutal violence, where the strongest lived and the weakest died - Survival of the Fittest - The Rule of nature. The reason why we protect and care for the weak not only is generated from our sense of pity, fellowship, loyalty and generosity, but also from religious backgrounds like the Ten Commandments in Christianism. Justice as such is today, in order for our social system to work, it is an essential requirement for us to believe that a superior presence judges for our sins.
Edit: More than 'laws', I wanted to refer to our sense of justice and concept of fairness.
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On March 02 2011 15:42 KevinIX wrote:
Hell, don't jails make a profit by using inmates for cheap labor?
They try, but afaik they're an enormous money sink none the less.
This source estimates inmate cost at $13k per yea (for south carolina)r:
http://www.doc.sc.gov/faqs.jsp
Others are as high as 30k per year as a nation-wide average, varying by state (not including the cost of the person not being active in the workforce) ---this is quite a long PDF ...in 2008 prisons cost our 33 surveyed states an average of about $79 per inmate per day—or almost $29,000 per year. http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/uploadedFiles/PSPP_1in31_report_FINAL_WEB_3-26-09.pdf
Edit: OT- Is it better to kill someone to prevent further killings in the future? God wouldn't like any killings to occur, but wouldn't he prefer the lesser of the two evils?
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As a prosecutor, I'm opposed to the death penalty for a more practical reason - that the execution of an innocent human being is the inevitable consequence of enacting capital punishment.
However, I have a hard time swallowing the OP's argument. I mean, that sort of ancient, manichean worldview really falls apart when held up against the complexities of a modern-day society and economy.
I just have a really hard time understanding Christianity in general. Either you live and die by the literal word of God i.e. the bible and Jesus's teachings, or you're not really a Christian, you're just picking and choosing what parts you want to believe. The former is entirely unacceptable to me, and the latter seems like blatant hypocrisy, so I just wash my hands of the whole thing and stay in my godless liberal enclave of NYC ;-)
EDIT: Just one point I would like to make - it costs more to execute someone than to feed and clothe them for life because the appeals process, which is designed to reduce the possibility of wrongful convictions, generates enormous court costs.
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my main issue with the death penalty are those who are sentenced to death but then later evidence shows that they were innocent...
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Really? Can I just move this to blogs before it implodes?
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On March 02 2011 15:49 spkim1 wrote:
I do admit that I am indeed Christian, and that I do believe in the presence of God.
However, that is not my point. Be it God, Buddha, Yahwe, or any other superior presence, it does not matter - Man has no right to judge another man's life or death.
Moreover, unfortunately, many of the laws made by humans have been derived from religious bases. Had we no religion, we would have lived in an environment with brutal violence, where the strongest lived and the weakest died - Survival of the Fittest - The Rule of nature. The reason why we protect and care for the weak not only is generated from our sense of pity, fellowship, loyalty and generosity, but also from religious backgrounds like the Ten Commandments in Christianism. Justice as such is today, in order for our social system to work, it is an essential requirement for us to believe that a superior presence judges for our sins.
Edit: More than 'laws', I wanted to refer to our sense of justice and concept of fairness.
And what (as I'm pretty certain is the case) if there IS no "superior presence"?
Your second paragraph is a bit rich considering religion is responsible for, you know, the vast majority of conflict and bloodshed throughout human history.
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What if we had an island that had enough natural resources for the murderers and rapists to sustain themselves and we built a big wall around it so you could only get in but never get out.
Would this be morally ok? Removes them from society and as a fitting punishment they must live among themselves.
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On March 02 2011 15:48 jello_biafra wrote:
Personally I'm in favour of the death penalty for murder, why waste all that money for decades on keeping this person alive when you could just solve the problem on day one with a bullet to the head.
The death penalty costs more than life in prison:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/
I am an atheist and this is one of the major reasons I am against the death penalty.
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On March 02 2011 15:48 Karliath wrote:
Play God? So when an ape kills another male ape for coming into his territory, that ape is playing God?
Oh wait I forgot. You guys don't care about animal behavior.
Just thought that id say i like this because if god created all creatures how come humans are the only species that really shows any rituals for god. its just because we wonder how we got here and other animals have more important things to worry about, plus they cant really think anyway
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There are many things I would like to say here, but to save myself from hours of frustration over religious debate that never has a conclusion, I will now take my leave.
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[QUOTE]On March 02 2011 15:48 jello_biafra wrote:
Personally I'm in favour of the death penalty for murder, why waste all that money for decades on keeping this person alive when you could just solve the problem on day one with a bullet to the head.
/QUOTE]
But that's the thing, a criminal can pay for his own life. Have the criminal work a job so he can pay for his own living expenses. Simply keep him away from the rest of society.
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On March 02 2011 15:52 Brambled wrote:
What if we had an island that had enough natural resources for the murderers and rapists to sustain themselves and we built a big wall around it so you could only get in but never get out.
Would this be morally ok? Removes them from society and as a fitting punishment they must live among themselves.
You cannot equate a rapist with a murderer, not even the most debased and vile child rapists. It's simply not possible, and yes, I know some states have tried to do it, but they're absolutely and completely wrong to do so.
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If i was, say, a terrible serial killer or something, and i faced one of life in prison or the death penalty, i would prefer the death penalty. i wouldn't want to spend the next 50 years in prison. i would much rather die. but hey, thats just me.
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Rational viewpoint is that running jails is a lot of money which could be spend on something more constructive.
Jails arent cheap.
On the other hand what god says doesnt matter to me since I'm an aetheist. Even though my angle at it is different from the "does not have right to" goes to "does not make you better than the killer".
I am a against death penalty.
Peace out, not gonna check this thread which is gonna be a religious discussion completely off topic in some pages..
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Imagine if one of your relatives or close friend was murdered by a psychopath - wouldn't your wrath and sense of justice boil as to want this psycho's life taken away as well ?
I read this line and it immediately made me think of this spam macro:
+ Show Spoiler +IF YOU WERE KILLED TOMORROW, I WOULDN'T GO TO UR FUNERAL CUZ I'D BE IN JAIL FOR KILLIN DA MOTHA FUCKER THAT KILLED YOU!
..._...|..____________________, ,
....../ `---___________----_____|] = = = = = D
...../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/
.....), ---.(_(__) /
....// (..) ), ----"
...//___//
..//___//
.//___//
Sorry if it's off topic, just thought it was a little funny 
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A thread on capital punishment created based on someone's religious views.
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On March 02 2011 15:52 RedDeckWins wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 15:48 jello_biafra wrote:
Personally I'm in favour of the death penalty for murder, why waste all that money for decades on keeping this person alive when you could just solve the problem on day one with a bullet to the head.
The death penalty costs more than life in prison: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/I am an atheist and this is one of the major reasons I am against the death penalty.
Only because of human rights and things, they keep them on death row for years on end and use expensive things like lethal injections. If they did it like China did and just hang/shoot them on the day of their trial then costs would be a hell of a lot lower.
On March 02 2011 15:53 KevinIX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 15:48 jello_biafra wrote:
Personally I'm in favour of the death penalty for murder, why waste all that money for decades on keeping this person alive when you could just solve the problem on day one with a bullet to the head.
But that's the thing, a criminal can pay for his own life. Have the criminal work a job so he can pay for his own living expenses. Simply keep him away from the rest of society.
Only worth it if they're producing significantly more than they're costing IMO, if they're just breaking even then why bother.
And as for a sense of justice and concept of fairness, ideally I think the punishment should fit the crime, you kill then you die, you assault someone you get assaulted, you rob someone you get all your stuff taken and given to the victim etc. with some kind of labour camp as well to replace prisons (cheaper and more effective IMO)
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On March 02 2011 15:37 spkim1 wrote:
Nobody has the right to take another man's life. Somehow, humans made laws and dared to decide who lived and died - man is playing God. Only God has the right to decide who should live or die.
A psychopath who has killed innocent people must be locked away and imprisonned for life. This is for the safety of others, and God will judge him from thence. We must not think our tax money is spent in an ill-advised way by being spent on feeding and keeping the psychopaths alive. We are paying tax money to contain them and keep them from harming anyone else. This would be included in "social security".
As an Atheist I can safely say that there is no God, and God will not judge a person in the afterlife because there is no afterlife.
You mention psychopaths, but I actually think you mean sociopaths, which are similar yet so extremely different.
A sociopath who has killed innocents, which is the keyword here, innocents, does not deserve to live. He feels no remorse for his actions and therefore deserves the death penalty.
A psychopath however, pertains to mental illness which is something that can be cured in a mental hospital. If a person has murdered someone because of mental illness, they deserve leniency or at the very least psychiatric care, not imprisonment.
A cold-blooded murderer who intentionally kills someone deserves to die in my opinion. Wasting tax payers money to keep someone in prison with the intention of "keeping the public safe from this person" is ridiculous. Them not being alive anymore serves the same purpose and solves the issue of said murderer getting out on parole or escaping from jail.
The prisons are overcrowded anyway and you'd save so much money that's better spent elsewhere on putting them in the ground.
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[quote]Imagine if one of your relatives or close friend was murdered by a psychopath - wouldn't your wrath and sense of justice boil as to want this psycho's life taken away as well ?[/quote
Maybe it would, and maybe it wouldn't. Regardless, it would not make capital punishment the smart, rational, ethical disposition of the case.
The people of your respective state or the united states as a whole bring criminal actions, not an individual - your interests are carefully weighed and considered by the prosecution, but they represent the people of the state as a whole, not you personally.
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Imagine if one of your relatives or close friend was murdered by a psychopath - wouldn't your wrath and sense of justice boil as to want this psycho's life taken away as well ?
Maybe it would, and maybe it wouldn't. Regardless, it would not make capital punishment the smart, rational, ethical disposition of the case.
The people of your respective state or the united states as a whole bring criminal actions, not an individual - your interests are carefully weighed and considered by the prosecution, but they represent the people of the state as a whole, not you personally.
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EPT
