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On February 17 2011 02:40 AyeH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote:
Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information. You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes. Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. HereAnd cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot.. Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/ programmers/casual users. You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself. edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
Just a comment: Mac is awesome for coding.
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On February 17 2011 13:33 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 02:40 AyeH wrote:On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote:
Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information. You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes. Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. HereAnd cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot.. Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/ programmers/casual users. You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself. edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky. Just a comment: Mac is awesome for coding.
Mac may be awesome for coding but a PC can do the same job a bit better much cheaper! I just can't justify the price tags on the Macs.
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On February 17 2011 14:04 AyeH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 13:33 Cambium wrote:On February 17 2011 02:40 AyeH wrote:On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote:
Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information. You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes. Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. HereAnd cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot.. Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/ programmers/casual users. You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself. edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky. Just a comment: Mac is awesome for coding. Mac may be awesome for coding but a PC can do the same job a bit better much cheaper! I just can't justify the price tags on the Macs.
Why do you assume that? Mac OS comes bundled with many more developing tools than Windows, from stuff like XCode which is just the best IDE for C/C++/Objective C in existence. and stuff like Vi, Emacs, etc. from its Unix nature. Not to mention that it makes a much more solid (web) server than any Windows could possibly wish.
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Don't really want to get into it, but
On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote: Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support.
You are misinformed and incorrect. All you have to know how to do is burn a CD, boot from it, insert your retail OS X disc and install from it. Then use 1 nicely written utility once the installation is done to install some kexts (basically drivers). Thats it, and everything works fine. There are also multiple large communities dedicated to it, so chances are any piece of hardware you have is supported, and any problems you run into can be solved by a forum search.
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On February 17 2011 12:00 Womwomwom wrote:Show nested quote +My graphics card is either superior or roughly in the same ballpark, though I honestly am not too up to date between the nVidia and ATI modern cards. Regardless, my HD 5750 does the trick quite well (Ultra everything at 30 FPS in Mac OS X, I can assume in Windows it would be about 60+FPS -- and yes, I will admit Mac OS X is at a temporary disadvantage for gaming, though running Windows is an option so I do not see that as a mark against the Mac itself by any means). No, HD5750 is no where near a GTX460 1GB. Not even close. Sorry but that's you can't even justify that with "opinion" because you're actually factually incorrect.
How can I be factually incorrect when I made it completely clear that I wasn't entirely sure? I am factually correct about what my card is capable of.
Wrong: You never have to deal with outsourced customer service because they aren't big enough to afford it and often bank on brand loyalty to keep customers buying their stuff, exactly how Apple does it. You buy from Antec/EVGA/Silverstone/g.skill and you generally deal with people who actually care about your situation and they're generally very good about the RMA services. No where near as good as AppleCare but good enough that its nothing more than a mere annoyance.
I can't really decipher what you're trying to say here, or how it causes me to be wrong. I have owned PCs from various manufacturers and yes the bulk of them do use outsourced customer service... And who's not big enough to "afford" outsourced service? I have no clue what you're trying to say.. outsourced service is clearly inexpensive and inferior to local customer service. Bottom line, I've dealt with damn near all the different tech supports in the industry and nothing holds a candle to Apple's. That's an extremely important point to most people, whether it matters to you or not.
Show nested quote +But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money. That's one of only two things you're right about. Awfully specific though, let me guess you ran through a checklist of what makes a iMac good and just posted that.
What lol? That is a huge list of things, not one. And it is the meat of my post. Yeah, those are all things that are good about the iMac that you can't dispute. Your point? You fail to dispute any of my claims. You make NO SENSE.
Wrong: $2000 is the 21" i5 750 iMac in the Apple Store in Australia. I don't know about the USA but that's how much I have to pay for a true quad core computer. No, that stuff isn't intended for HD video editing or servers, that's for the Mac Pro and the xserves.
I'm not looking at Australia. I don't live in Australia. It's not relevant to the discussion. I'm sorry you get gouged because of your location, but it's an entirely different topic of discussion. What I said was still accurate, not wrong. And yes, actually, you're wrong, Mac Pro and XServes ARE high end Macs mainly marketed to HD video editing and servers.. hence my point.
And you keep bringing up this bullshit "true quad core" requirement. That is overkill for most tasks, and it's completely unfair as you are still comparing this $2000 machine to a $350 PC. That is a bullshit comparison. I am telling you right now, you can get a functional mac for $800. Quit making claims that you need to spend 2 grand, because you're simply flat out wrong.
Yeah you can get a Mac for 2 grand. You can get a Mac or a PC for 5 grand as well. As I stated REPEATEDLY, I was addressing the absolute BULLSHIT claim that you can't get a Mac for under 2 grand. You can't argue that, without being wrong.
You get get a Phenom II and a HD6850 for $400 and it will undoubtedly outperform any current iMac in gaming.
No the hardware here isn't bad quality unless you think AMD products are going to explode after two years.
Having made PCs myself, I know for a fact this is simply naive. To make a machine that cheap, you're going to be buying some shoddy parts. I'm not talking about the CPU. It could be the PSU, RAM, Mobo, hard drive, anything. You get what you pay for, that is a well agreed upon general truth in the PC building world.
You can't play any modern game, Just Cause 2 for example, on anything but the lowest settings with that video card because to was fairly low range when it came out.
My card is much more powerful than the one listed as the minimum requirement for Just Cause 2. I don't play the game so I can't speak from experience, but going by the data there is absolutely no reason for what you said to hold any bearing. It should run absolutely fine. If you want to make a claim then provide a benchmark or something, otherwise there's absolutely nothing to support your claim that it wouldn't run.
Guess what, Macs use the exact same parts as people use in their computers. All computer shit comes from asian OEMs. There is no "Mac hardware is higher quality than self bought hardware" because they're all the same shit from guys like Foxconn, Hynix, LG, and Samsung. Most PC manufacturers are just some form of these guys and simply rebadge parts.
Macs use the parts they use. As a PC you have MANY choices of parts to use, some of them have good reputations, others are known to be poor quality. To say they all use the exact same parts is blatantly false. It doesn't mean the poor quality ones will always give everyone problems, but Apple DOES use parts that are considered high quality, and that would cost significantly more than the parts in your $350 PC if you were to make a PC out of them.
And those $800 Macs are awful. The solid white plastic unibody Macbooks are simply there for the same reason many manufactures wedge stupidly underspecced and overpriced laptops between more solid products - its to make people go the extra mile and spend more money on the better product, which in this case is the Macbook Pro.
I don't think they are awful. They are intended for a different purpose. There are plenty of people who do not need a powerhouse computer, they just want to browse the Internet and listen to music. Those people would probably be able to do so just fine with a PC, but that doesn't really account for all of the great benefits of having a Mac. To many people, the ease of use, automatic management of maintenance tasks and backing up, and yes, style, will overcome the price difference (which becomes quite small when you realize how much more the Mac will sell for used).
I don't see what your point is. Yeah, I'm pretty sure anyone would prefer a MacBook Pro to a MacBook if I had an extra $1200 lying around. Again you fail to use any logic, circumventing the point you're quoting to make a random jab at a corporation for trying to make money. You would give them even more shit if they didn't have those $800 models, and then the "you can't get a Mac for under 2 grand!" bullshit would actually be true.
Either way you need a "bleeding edge" iMac if you want to play games on an acceptable quality (medium shaders for example). If you can't you might as well just get a console, which is an entirely valid and probably the smartest idea because PC gaming is basically filled with console ports. And you can use the Mac's screen to play the console, its actually a perfectly fine idea but make no mistake that its hardly an option if you want to play modern computer games on it.
Like hell you do. You pulled this out of your ass. I was running StarCraft 2 on my 5 year old iMac until I got this one. Stop even saying anything if you can't prove it, because EVERY SINGLE THING YOU HAVE SAID is either a flat out lie or completely irrelevant to any of the points I made.
On February 17 2011 12:02 alffla wrote:
i in terms of UI, thats the most subjective thing..i've tried using macs before it just seems like its kind of reversed windows. like how the menu bar is on the top instead of the start menu along the bottom for windows? or its kind of combined..
so say if i just use photoshop mostly and not any other 'exclusive mac' programs then there's not much reason to get a mac over a pc right
cuz it just looks and works teh same to me
Yes it's partially subjective, but there is a reason a huge amount of the people who know what good design means use Macs. Additionally, studies have been done to see which interface is more intuitive to people who have never used a computer and OS X comes out every time.
Here is one article that highlights Windows 7 vs OS X user interface, and OS X comes out ahead in most cases. http://www.infoworld.com/d/windows/ui-challenge-windows-7-vs-mac-os-x-915 This is just one example, there's stuff like this all over the place and when you compare them directly it's very difficult to find that OS X doesn't do at least some things much much better.
I've listed a bajillion reasons that Macs are better than PCs. No, UI is not the only reason to get a Mac over a PC that I listed, it's just the only thing you quoted. If you find all of the things I mentioned don't matter to you, then by all means, get a PC, you will save some money in the short-term.
On February 17 2011 14:04 AyeH wrote:
Mac may be awesome for coding but a PC can do the same job a bit better much cheaper! I just can't justify the price tags on the Macs.
It can't do it ANY better. That argument doesn't hold any water. Mac can do EVERYTHING PC can do EXACTLY as well, if not better, since you can run Windows natively. A little cheaper? Well, up front, yeah, I've never disputed it, just that it's worth it.
OS X comes with way more coding tools than Windows does pre-installed. Also, if you are interested in iPhone coding at all (easily the fastest growing code-related industry), suck it up, you have no choice (and yeah that's because of capitalistic bullshit but hey what can you do?)
On February 17 2011 14:37 blue` wrote:Don't really want to get into it, but Show nested quote +On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote: Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. You are misinformed and incorrect. All you have to know how to do is burn a CD, boot from it, insert your retail OS X disc and install from it. Then use 1 nicely written utility once the installation is done to install some kexts (basically drivers). Thats it, and everything works fine. There are also multiple large communities dedicated to it, so chances are any piece of hardware you have is supported, and any problems you run into can be solved by a forum search.
I'm not misinformed or incorrect. I've used it myself. If you don't really want to get into it, don't call me a liar. If you're going to be a dick, at least back it up.
It's not as simple as you say unless you purposely buy 100% compatible parts, and while things may have gotten better since I used it, it is still a HACK that is against the terms of service, it takes more time and knowledge to use, and has no customer support (no doubt you will point out that the community will help you out, but the community is often quite unhelpful). You will also get updates slower.
I'm not saying it's evil or worthless or anything, but it is NOT for your average consumer.
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in my country its quite simple like to edit video, music/sound? do you like to design ? then buy a mac.
I dont have a mac I have a dell and it works pretty good. These are some things that make a mac very attractive to people that have little knowledge of video, sound editing and design.
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My story: HARDCORE windows fan. i bashed on mac whenever i could. then i met a beautiful girl, we started dating, i used her laptop a lot. mac os x is actually cool, and a lot of the macros like expose and the likes are pretty cool and actually useful.
i bought a MBP:
so...i bought a MBP 13" after 16 years of hardcore windows (ages 7-21). windows was pretty much my love, i played way too many games, did way too much hacking, etc. but god, the MBP looked nice, OMG SIX HOURS OF BATTERY LIFE!!!!!11111 ONE ONE ONE TWO SIX. lol. ok no, but all that aside, it was like, yeah i want this. i had the money, so why not. buh bye $1300. it was great though, i loved having spaces and expose. it was awesome. but then i came to the realization that i just paid $1300 for something that can't play CS:S, SC2, or any current/last gen game. seriously? that annoys me, and that's why i will remain a big mac hater despite owning one. its my last mac despite the fact that it hasn't given me any issues, and it is built like a rock. great battery life is great, great quality is great. however, think about this, $600 would have bought me a much better laptop, and in two years if it broke or was out of warranty, i could jsut spend another $600 and stay with current tech. w/e.
regarding hackint0sh/installing OS X on "PCs":
before i ever bought that MBP, i tried it out on my desktop a la hackint0sh and the various distros out there. it was a pain to get it working, and once i did, i just didn't like it. os x + logitech G5 = super weird feeling, it just didn't mix. expose, etc was cool and all, but i just didn't like it. also, MAC OS X doesn't exactly work on every computer. as i understand it, 90% of MACs don't use motherboards with "BIOS" they have some crap called "UEFI" which i don't completely understand, except for the fact that it really makes installing OS X super difficult in some situations. for example, my super popular ASUS P5Q motherboard is not compatible with hackint0sh unless i install a hacked bios on my mobo, umm...no thanks. i suppose if you want, you can buy some hardware that you know is supported, and make a hackintosh build. all that aside, it is illegal, but w/e.
my linux experience:
my friend in middle/high school was a huge linux geek. i didn't understand him then...i used to "modify" xboxes back in the day, and i bought one from a pawn shop, fixed it, and sold it to him so he could fulfill his linux desires on the xbox. the xbox was awesome cuz it rank linux, and also allowed me to legally obtain modchips with the excuse that my intention was to run linux on client's xboxes (of course that was my real intention  ).
then, last year, a friend of mine gave me an old tablet with a celeron. he was the IT guy or something at a university. so, naturally, the windows install had a password, and the CD rom was broke. easiest solution? run a live usb or usb install. i chose ubuntu. while it wasn't the best thing ever, it worked, and i was in college so i needed something to use (this was before i got my MBP). seriously though, linux is super powerful and robust. i currently run a server at home for personal use, i'm on ubuntu now, and i just installed linux on a laptop i was ready to throw out. now i dont' have to throw out a perfectly good laptop because of the "aged" hardware. all of that aside though, i found all the cool screen macros/eye candy on ubuntu, and it is faster and easier to install than MAC OS X on non-sanctioned hardware. i love it. it has "spaces", "expose" and way more.
on music/video development, office, industry software: unfortunately, this is one thing linux lacks and OS x and windows have an advantage with. office software is just leaps and bounds better on win/os x. video and photo editing? win/os x both have the adobe creative suite. windows however seems to have the majority of CAD software and 3D modeling software. but what about music? the notion that musician's and video editors should choose MAC is as old and lame as the theory that the universe revolves around the earth. seriously? most people now use software that is written for both apple and win. it even appears that games are slowly being released for mac (source engine games, SC2, etc).
i'm a scientist and i do research. i wish i could tell the post-doc i work with to switch over to linux. but wow, it seems that all of the software that is extremely important to us is mostly on win/MAC.
PC laptops: my luck with PC laptops is terrible. i had a compaq 10 years ago that died randomly. i had a toshiba that fried itself because celerons are too hot. i had an HP too, and man was it annoying to deal with. i dealt with the same issues on my HP too, overheating, power connectors getting loose, shitty battery, the works. i seriously can't stand PC laptops. haven't had one that lasted more than 2 years. but i'd still choose them over MACs, and i'll explain why.
prices: well, you already know my stance on prices. unless your program ONLY runs on MAC, you'd be a fool to buy one. or you're just one of those people that have more money than brains. or you "NEED" 6 hours battery life, but seriously, who needs 6 hours? i've had a MAC laptop, desktop, a PC laptop and desktop, i've had MAC OS X on my "PC", i've used ubuntu, and my final verdict is that i'm going to stick with PCs. the rate at which our technology advances is ridiculous. you'd be a fool to pay $1300 for a brick that might get you laid at your college campus. i'd rather buy a $650 every two years than a macbook pro for $1300 every 4 years. mac desktops are just a joke and not even worth mentioning. the performance:price ratio is ridiculous. i like my mac, but i don't recommend it to anyone unless they have deep pockets and like to pay convenience fees (essentially what you get when you pay for a mac).
On February 17 2011 17:13 telfire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 12:00 Womwomwom wrote:My graphics card is either superior or roughly in the same ballpark, though I honestly am not too up to date between the nVidia and ATI modern cards. Regardless, my HD 5750 does the trick quite well (Ultra everything at 30 FPS in Mac OS X, I can assume in Windows it would be about 60+FPS -- and yes, I will admit Mac OS X is at a temporary disadvantage for gaming, though running Windows is an option so I do not see that as a mark against the Mac itself by any means). No, HD5750 is no where near a GTX460 1GB. Not even close. Sorry but that's you can't even justify that with "opinion" because you're actually factually incorrect. How can I be factually incorrect when I made it completely clear that I wasn't entirely sure? I am factually correct about what my card is capable of. Show nested quote +Wrong: You never have to deal with outsourced customer service because they aren't big enough to afford it and often bank on brand loyalty to keep customers buying their stuff, exactly how Apple does it. You buy from Antec/EVGA/Silverstone/g.skill and you generally deal with people who actually care about your situation and they're generally very good about the RMA services. No where near as good as AppleCare but good enough that its nothing more than a mere annoyance. I can't really decipher what you're trying to say here, or how it causes me to be wrong. I have owned PCs from various manufacturers and yes the bulk of them do use outsourced customer service... And who's not big enough to "afford" outsourced service? I have no clue what you're trying to say.. outsourced service is clearly inexpensive and inferior to local customer service. Bottom line, I've dealt with damn near all the different tech supports in the industry and nothing holds a candle to Apple's. That's an extremely important point to most people, whether it matters to you or not. Show nested quote +But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money. That's one of only two things you're right about. Awfully specific though, let me guess you ran through a checklist of what makes a iMac good and just posted that. What lol? That is a huge list of things, not one. And it is the meat of my post. Yeah, those are all things that are good about the iMac that you can't dispute. Your point? You fail to dispute any of my claims. You make NO SENSE. Show nested quote +Wrong: $2000 is the 21" i5 750 iMac in the Apple Store in Australia. I don't know about the USA but that's how much I have to pay for a true quad core computer. No, that stuff isn't intended for HD video editing or servers, that's for the Mac Pro and the xserves. I'm not looking at Australia. I don't live in Australia. It's not relevant to the discussion. I'm sorry you get gouged because of your location, but it's an entirely different topic of discussion. What I said was still accurate, not wrong. And yes, actually, you're wrong, Mac Pro and XServes ARE high end Macs mainly marketed to HD video editing and servers.. hence my point. And you keep bringing up this bullshit "true quad core" requirement. That is overkill for most tasks, and it's completely unfair as you are still comparing this $2000 machine to a $350 PC. That is a bullshit comparison. I am telling you right now, you can get a functional mac for $800. Quit making claims that you need to spend 2 grand, because you're simply flat out wrong. Yeah you can get a Mac for 2 grand. You can get a Mac or a PC for 5 grand as well. As I stated REPEATEDLY, I was addressing the absolute BULLSHIT claim that you can't get a Mac for under 2 grand. You can't argue that, without being wrong. Show nested quote +You get get a Phenom II and a HD6850 for $400 and it will undoubtedly outperform any current iMac in gaming.
No the hardware here isn't bad quality unless you think AMD products are going to explode after two years. Having made PCs myself, I know for a fact this is simply naive. To make a machine that cheap, you're going to be buying some shoddy parts. I'm not talking about the CPU. It could be the PSU, RAM, Mobo, hard drive, anything. You get what you pay for, that is a well agreed upon general truth in the PC building world. Show nested quote +You can't play any modern game, Just Cause 2 for example, on anything but the lowest settings with that video card because to was fairly low range when it came out. My card is much more powerful than the one listed as the minimum requirement for Just Cause 2. I don't play the game so I can't speak from experience, but going by the data there is absolutely no reason for what you said to hold any bearing. It should run absolutely fine. If you want to make a claim then provide a benchmark or something, otherwise there's absolutely nothing to support your claim that it wouldn't run. Show nested quote +Guess what, Macs use the exact same parts as people use in their computers. All computer shit comes from asian OEMs. There is no "Mac hardware is higher quality than self bought hardware" because they're all the same shit from guys like Foxconn, Hynix, LG, and Samsung. Most PC manufacturers are just some form of these guys and simply rebadge parts. Macs use the parts they use. As a PC you have MANY choices of parts to use, some of them have good reputations, others are known to be poor quality. To say they all use the exact same parts is blatantly false. It doesn't mean the poor quality ones will always give everyone problems, but Apple DOES use parts that are considered high quality, and that would cost significantly more than the parts in your $350 PC if you were to make a PC out of them. Show nested quote +And those $800 Macs are awful. The solid white plastic unibody Macbooks are simply there for the same reason many manufactures wedge stupidly underspecced and overpriced laptops between more solid products - its to make people go the extra mile and spend more money on the better product, which in this case is the Macbook Pro. I don't think they are awful. They are intended for a different purpose. There are plenty of people who do not need a powerhouse computer, they just want to browse the Internet and listen to music. Those people would probably be able to do so just fine with a PC, but that doesn't really account for all of the great benefits of having a Mac. To many people, the ease of use, automatic management of maintenance tasks and backing up, and yes, style, will overcome the price difference (which becomes quite small when you realize how much more the Mac will sell for used). I don't see what your point is. Yeah, I'm pretty sure anyone would prefer a MacBook Pro to a MacBook if I had an extra $1200 lying around. Again you fail to use any logic, circumventing the point you're quoting to make a random jab at a corporation for trying to make money. You would give them even more shit if they didn't have those $800 models, and then the "you can't get a Mac for under 2 grand!" bullshit would actually be true. Show nested quote +Either way you need a "bleeding edge" iMac if you want to play games on an acceptable quality (medium shaders for example). If you can't you might as well just get a console, which is an entirely valid and probably the smartest idea because PC gaming is basically filled with console ports. And you can use the Mac's screen to play the console, its actually a perfectly fine idea but make no mistake that its hardly an option if you want to play modern computer games on it. Like hell you do. You pulled this out of your ass. I was running StarCraft 2 on my 5 year old iMac until I got this one. Stop even saying anything if you can't prove it, because EVERY SINGLE THING YOU HAVE SAID is either a flat out lie or completely irrelevant to any of the points I made. Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 12:02 alffla wrote:
i in terms of UI, thats the most subjective thing..i've tried using macs before it just seems like its kind of reversed windows. like how the menu bar is on the top instead of the start menu along the bottom for windows? or its kind of combined..
so say if i just use photoshop mostly and not any other 'exclusive mac' programs then there's not much reason to get a mac over a pc right
cuz it just looks and works teh same to me Yes it's partially subjective, but there is a reason a huge amount of the people who know what good design means use Macs. Additionally, studies have been done to see which interface is more intuitive to people who have never used a computer and OS X comes out every time. Here is one article that highlights Windows 7 vs OS X user interface, and OS X comes out ahead in most cases. http://www.infoworld.com/d/windows/ui-challenge-windows-7-vs-mac-os-x-915 This is just one example, there's stuff like this all over the place and when you compare them directly it's very difficult to find that OS X doesn't do at least some things much much better. I've listed a bajillion reasons that Macs are better than PCs. No, UI is not the only reason to get a Mac over a PC that I listed, it's just the only thing you quoted. If you find all of the things I mentioned don't matter to you, then by all means, get a PC, you will save some money in the short-term. Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 14:04 AyeH wrote:
Mac may be awesome for coding but a PC can do the same job a bit better much cheaper! I just can't justify the price tags on the Macs. It can't do it ANY better. That argument doesn't hold any water. Mac can do EVERYTHING PC can do EXACTLY as well, if not better, since you can run Windows natively. A little cheaper? Well, up front, yeah, I've never disputed it, just that it's worth it. OS X comes with way more coding tools than Windows does pre-installed. Also, if you are interested in iPhone coding at all (easily the fastest growing code-related industry), suck it up, you have no choice (and yeah that's because of capitalistic bullshit but hey what can you do?) Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 14:37 blue` wrote:Don't really want to get into it, but On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote: Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. You are misinformed and incorrect. All you have to know how to do is burn a CD, boot from it, insert your retail OS X disc and install from it. Then use 1 nicely written utility once the installation is done to install some kexts (basically drivers). Thats it, and everything works fine. There are also multiple large communities dedicated to it, so chances are any piece of hardware you have is supported, and any problems you run into can be solved by a forum search. I'm not misinformed or incorrect. I've used it myself. If you don't really want to get into it, don't call me a liar. If you're going to be a dick, at least back it up. It's not as simple as you say unless you purposely buy 100% compatible parts, and while things may have gotten better since I used it, it is still a HACK that is against the terms of service, it takes more time and knowledge to use, and has no customer support (no doubt you will point out that the community will help you out, but the community is often quite unhelpful). You will also get updates slower. I'm not saying it's evil or worthless or anything, but it is NOT for your average consumer.
1) You're right GTX 460 >> 5750
2) You're right about getting a MAC for $800, that's an awfully expensive computer to just youtube/email/wordprocess
3) But for $800 i can get a laptop that performs better. There are dozens of benchmarks that show that specs do matter when it comes to photoshop, etc. Don't even get me started on After Effects, do you know CPU intensive that is? There is no way anything at the apple store that costs under $2k will let you edit 1080p video with effects and render those effects in a decent amount of time. The fact is, Apple can't compete with Windows/PCs in terms of price:performance.
4) No, to build a PC that cheap you don't need to buy "shoddy parts". Look up slickdeals.net, profit, thank me later.
5) Don't pretend like Steve Jobs has a special manufacturer that manufactures shit for Apple. If it makes you feel better about overpaying for your stuff, sure assume that's the case, but its not. Apple uses that same mobo manufacturers that PC makes use. Asus, foxconn, msi, etc. They also use the same hard drive manufacturers (oh by the way, how does your butthole feel after paying $350 for a 128 gb SSD or $800 for a 256 gb SSD?). I think a 6 GBPS 256 GB SSD costs $400 on newegg? So you're paying like $400 to a "Genius" to swap out your hdd? cool story bro. Oh wait, you want 8 gb memory instead of 4 gb, can you open your butthole so i can take $400? the only thing that might be worth it on MACs is the damn RGD-LED screens. Seriously though, the only areas where MACs might differ, is the case, trackpad, keyboard, and screen (?). The rest of your crap is made by the same manufacturers of my desktop PC parts. I dare you to go open up your damn MBP or w/e and look inside. The HDD/ram/etc are probably available on newegg.
6) I have a MBP 13" that i bought last year, it can't play SC2 on medium settings. LOL. $1300 down the toilet. I could have bought any other laptop and it'd probably play SC2 fine...but not my MBP. Won't play L4D2 either, or a source game at higher than 20 fps. Which reminds me, the source engine came out in like 2005 or something. Damn.
7) No MAC can't do everything PC can. CAD software? Industry specific software? In science, we have very limited funding, so we don't go blowing off money on MACs, we buy PCs. As a result, software for our instruments is written for Windows. Simple.
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Yourwhiteshadow, you're entitled to your opinion and you seem to have reached it at least partially logically (your Mac CAN play CS:S though, NATIVELY IN MAC OS X, and for the things that's not true of, you can still run Windows). Then you go off and call everyone who buys a mac a "fool" multiple times, despite listing a ton of reasons why Macs are better. That's not the way to have a constructive conversation.
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On February 17 2011 18:42 telfire wrote:
Yourwhiteshadow, you're entitled to your opinion and you seem to have reached it at least partially logically (your Mac CAN play CS:S though, NATIVELY IN MAC OS X, and for the things that's not true of, you can still run Windows). Then you go off and call everyone who buys a mac a "fool" multiple times, despite listing a ton of reasons why Macs are better. That's not the way to have a constructive conversation.
I've tried to play CS:S natively, it sucks. Its just really terrible, can't play L4D2 or TF2 either with decent settings. I mean, even on the lower settings, I can't get higher than 40 fps. My computer from 2004 was able to play CS:S at a decent resolution with decent settings. I just don't understand. If it makes you feel better, I'm a fool too for giving into the MAC hype. One of the main reasons I bought it was because my GF had one, and my best friend had one. I thought it'd be cool. But honestly, if we want to be constructive, we're better off buying faster hardware.
Also, for me this is a little touchy subject. I run a charity where I refurbish computers that are donated, and I donate them to kids who need them. I don't think people realize how blessed we are to even have computers. A lot of people just don't own their own computers, plain and simple. It hurts me to see people go get MACs, and then trash them later on because there isn't anything else to do with them. Yah, there are *nix distros for PowerPC, but the processors are like dinosaurs. I can't refurb those for kids. Even in 5 years, if I want to refurb an Apple computer, I'm going to have way more issues because of the EFI or w/e. But my main point, is that we have the option to choose, and yet we don't realize most people don't even have the option.
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On February 17 2011 18:58 yourwhiteshadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 18:42 telfire wrote:
Yourwhiteshadow, you're entitled to your opinion and you seem to have reached it at least partially logically (your Mac CAN play CS:S though, NATIVELY IN MAC OS X, and for the things that's not true of, you can still run Windows). Then you go off and call everyone who buys a mac a "fool" multiple times, despite listing a ton of reasons why Macs are better. That's not the way to have a constructive conversation. I've tried to play CS:S natively, it sucks. Its just really terrible, can't play L4D2 or TF2 either with decent settings. I mean, even on the lower settings, I can't get higher than 40 fps. My computer from 2004 was able to play CS:S at a decent resolution with decent settings. I just don't understand. If it makes you feel better, I'm a fool too for giving into the MAC hype. One of the main reasons I bought it was because my GF had one, and my best friend had one. I thought it'd be cool. But honestly, if we want to be constructive, we're better off buying faster hardware. Also, for me this is a little touchy subject. I run a charity where I refurbish computers that are donated, and I donate them to kids who need them. I don't think people realize how blessed we are to even have computers. A lot of people just don't own their own computers, plain and simple. It hurts me to see people go get MACs, and then trash them later on because there isn't anything else to do with them. Yah, there are *nix distros for PowerPC, but the processors are like dinosaurs. I can't refurb those for kids. Even in 5 years, if I want to refurb an Apple computer, I'm going to have way more issues because of the EFI or w/e. But my main point, is that we have the option to choose, and yet we don't realize most people don't even have the option.
There is no MAC, there is no reason to capitalize it, it is a Mac. It is short for Macintosh. It is and was never MAC. This is a minor issue, but a pet peeve of mine and just one example of how ignorant you are on the subject. Ignorance is not a crime, but having a loud pronounced opinion and stating that anyone who disagrees with it is a fool is just pure douchebaggery.
For one, 40FPS is fine, not even close to "really terrible"... The human eye can't distinguish beyond 30, so 40 is fine and while more obviously shows better performance, that is FINE to play games with. You can get Macs that will get way more than that. The point of a computer is WHAT IT IS CAPABLE OF, and artificial numbers being higher is meaningless to the average computer user. The important thing is how it behaves, and Mac OS X is far better than Windows IMO.
Anyways, if you RUN WINDOWS you will get 100% native performance on ANY game. Do you not even realize this? You can run Windows NATIVELY on any Intel Mac, and it will perform as good or better than equivalent speed PC. So you went from "can't even play it" to plays it "just terribly" and now I'm telling you that you can run it at 100% speed that a PC could. Care to change your story again?
If people are trashing their Mac they are losing out. The things resell MUCH better than PCs do. PCs do not even last nearly as long as Macs on average, in my experience a PC lasts till it dies and then you replace it. Rarely is an old PC worth repairing unless you just have the parts lying around anyway. A Mac will just keep on going, 15 years or so most of the time. Yes, the technology gets better and makes the old ones look pretty poor, this is every bit as true for PCs as well, a very old PC is going to be very slow trying to do any modern tasks. That's just how technology works, you can't hold it against Mac if you're not going to hold it against PC.
Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion as I said, but don't be a douchebag about it. I have an opinion to, and I am absolutely not a fool. My opinion is educated, and backed with tons of reasoning. I have used both types of systems extensively and I massively prefer this one.
As for your little anecdote about how fortunate we are, it's irrelevant. I know people will use their emotions instead of their brain and think me a horrible person for saying it, but there being poor people in the world has absolutely no bearing, affect, or relevance to my computer choice. And claiming you can't refurb a Mac is absolutely ludicrous, Macs are far far FAR better for that purpose as I have repeatedly stated... They hold their resale value for a good reason.
What would you rather have, a car that can go 500 miles per hour but doesn't pass safety, breaks after a while, and requires reading a manual to operate, or a car that can go 450 miles per hour and is drop dead simple to use, lasts a long time, and resells for more used? Chances are, you'll never max out the speed anyway. I wouldn't blame anyone who wanted the fast car, but for most people the slower one would be a much better choice because it is better designed in other ways. Speed is not even close to the only aspect people look at when buying a car. Likewise, Macs have many benefits that are not bleeding edge performance and 16 core processing, which is required by literally nothing, and very few programs even benefit slightly from.
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On February 17 2011 14:10 Cloud wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 14:04 AyeH wrote:On February 17 2011 13:33 Cambium wrote:On February 17 2011 02:40 AyeH wrote:On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote:
Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information. You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes. Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. HereAnd cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot.. Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/ programmers/casual users. You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself. edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky. Just a comment: Mac is awesome for coding. Mac may be awesome for coding but a PC can do the same job a bit better much cheaper! I just can't justify the price tags on the Macs. Why do you assume that? Mac OS comes bundled with many more developing tools than Windows, from stuff like XCode which is just the best IDE for C/C++/Objective C in existence. and stuff like Vi, Emacs, etc. from its Unix nature. Not to mention that it makes a much more solid (web) server than any Windows could possibly wish.
Additionally, assuming "PC" refers to Windows OS (using PC and Mac for distinction is retarded btw, a Mac is also a personal computer):
native terminal >> putty
OSX >> cygwin
As for PC with some linux distro:
Mac comes with relative bug free UIs for various IDEs, which is very nice.
Also, referring to the "cheaper" comment, my Lenovo ThinkPad costs just as much as a MBP with marginally better specs, but no webcam. It's just not fair to compare Mac against the cheapest notebook you can find online.
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I bought a macbook for my school, and it was one of the least thought out, and worst ideas I've ever had - I hate it.
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Todays commercial culture: We borrow money in order to buy things we dont need, to make impressions that dont last on people we dont care about.
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I have 3 win7 pc's and a win7 laptop. My company decided to buy me a Macbook Pro 15'', the 2.66Ghz version and I just love the fuck out of it.
- I love coding on it
- My traktor scratch pro loves it
- I love writing on that thing
- I absolutely love the trackpad!
- I love how fast it is up
- I love the sexy unibody
Best laptop I ever owned by far. Whenever I'm on another laptop I'm like -_- meh...
But keep in mind it's not for gaming. It's just designing and mixing. And for that it's simply awesome.
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5930 Posts
Macs use the parts they use. As a PC you have MANY choices of parts to use, some of them have good reputations, others are known to be poor quality. To say they all use the exact same parts is blatantly false. It doesn't mean the poor quality ones will always give everyone problems, but Apple DOES use parts that are considered high quality, and that would cost significantly more than the parts in your $350 PC if you were to make a PC out of them.
Yes they do, they all use the exact same parts from OEMs. Corsair, Antec, OCZ, g.skill, XFX, and other friends all source their parts from Samsung, Hynix, Seasonic, CWT, etc. They might tinker with it and make aesthetically different choices but the parts that matter operate near identically. A Corsair power supply with 80+ gold certification will be exactly the same as a 80+ gold certificated Seasonic because it literally is and if it has issues, it will be the exact same issues.
RAM in particular are all exactly identical. They are all some flavor of Samsung, Hynix, or Toshiba and for this reason its stupid to pay more than the bare minimum for these parts. For these reasons that $350 computer doesn't have worse parts than a iMac except in possibly the power supply (what is the iMac's power supply anyway?).
You are not paying $$$ for Apple's high quality internal hardware (Mac Pros are using 80+ Bronze power supplies for instance which is fairly standard in power supplies these days) you are paying for support, design, and the IPS screen (the fucker is $1000 alone, that is why they're so expensive). Notice I haven't said anything bad about Apple computers, it because I know exactly what they offer, what their target market is, and their purpose in the i device ecosystem.
Like hell you do. You pulled this out of your ass. I was running StarCraft 2 on my 5 year old iMac until I got this one. Stop even saying anything if you can't prove it, because EVERY SINGLE THING YOU HAVE SAID is either a flat out lie or completely irrelevant to any of the points I made.
Protip: Starcraft 2 is only one game out of hundreds of PC games out there. Also its more CPU bound than GPU bound so of course a iMac is doing to do fairly well at it.
Try playing something that is more GPU bound like Just Cause 2 (aka the best console port of this generation) or some FPS game without it performing worse or looking worse than the console version. You can't and its entirely due to the GPU, the HD5750 doesn't really cut it without turning settings down.
This isn't a bad thing, they're not designed for games and true PC gaming is essentially dead so it literally doesn't matter, I thought I made this clear.
I'm not misinformed or incorrect. I've used it myself. If you don't really want to get into it, don't call me a liar. If you're going to be a dick, at least back it up.
It's not as simple as you say unless you purposely buy 100% compatible parts, and while things may have gotten better since I used it, it is still a HACK that is against the terms of service, it takes more time and knowledge to use, and has no customer support (no doubt you will point out that the community will help you out, but the community is often quite unhelpful). You will also get updates slower.
I'm not saying it's evil or worthless or anything, but it is NOT for your average consumer.
As long at you buy a Gigabyte board and the same GPU architecture as Apple uses (which is currently Evergreen), it will basically run fine. There's Tonymac and Kakewalk and both options are fairly simple to do (Kakewalk in particular basically does everything for you). Community is great too, Tonymac's forums are probably one of the best ways to find solutions to issues.
If you just want to run OSX, which is the whole point of a Hackintosh, its perfectly fine and stable. I've tried it out and compared it with my Macbook Pro and there really isn't really any difference besides the fact the DVD drive is a bit buggy (probably because its not a slot loader). All programs work fine, updates work as they should, can use Time Machine, etc. The fact that Apple uses Intel processors makes everything so easy.
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On February 17 2011 22:51 telfire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 18:58 yourwhiteshadow wrote:On February 17 2011 18:42 telfire wrote:
Yourwhiteshadow, you're entitled to your opinion and you seem to have reached it at least partially logically (your Mac CAN play CS:S though, NATIVELY IN MAC OS X, and for the things that's not true of, you can still run Windows). Then you go off and call everyone who buys a mac a "fool" multiple times, despite listing a ton of reasons why Macs are better. That's not the way to have a constructive conversation. I've tried to play CS:S natively, it sucks. Its just really terrible, can't play L4D2 or TF2 either with decent settings. I mean, even on the lower settings, I can't get higher than 40 fps. My computer from 2004 was able to play CS:S at a decent resolution with decent settings. I just don't understand. If it makes you feel better, I'm a fool too for giving into the MAC hype. One of the main reasons I bought it was because my GF had one, and my best friend had one. I thought it'd be cool. But honestly, if we want to be constructive, we're better off buying faster hardware. Also, for me this is a little touchy subject. I run a charity where I refurbish computers that are donated, and I donate them to kids who need them. I don't think people realize how blessed we are to even have computers. A lot of people just don't own their own computers, plain and simple. It hurts me to see people go get MACs, and then trash them later on because there isn't anything else to do with them. Yah, there are *nix distros for PowerPC, but the processors are like dinosaurs. I can't refurb those for kids. Even in 5 years, if I want to refurb an Apple computer, I'm going to have way more issues because of the EFI or w/e. But my main point, is that we have the option to choose, and yet we don't realize most people don't even have the option. What would you rather have, a car that can go 500 miles per hour but doesn't pass safety, breaks after a while, and requires reading a manual to operate, or a car that can go 450 miles per hour and is drop dead simple to use, lasts a long time, and resells for more used? Chances are, you'll never max out the speed anyway. I wouldn't blame anyone who wanted the fast car, but for most people the slower one would be a much better choice because it is better designed in other ways. Speed is not even close to the only aspect people look at when buying a car. Likewise, Macs have many benefits that are not bleeding edge performance and 16 core processing, which is required by literally nothing, and very few programs even benefit slightly from.
Of course a Mac is a good product, but the issue here is if it´s worth paying more for less, so I feel that your metaphor is a bit off here. Plus you act like any laptop other than a Mac breaks and is really hard to use which is not true.
Biggest selling point for me would be the battery life, which is really good, but I´m not sure if I would pay for an overpriced product just for that. The arguments made here are more about the software, but windows is really fine if you know what you do. If you don´t like it, just get hackintosh, might be a bit harder to set up, but then you got the same product in another jacket with less money.
Most people do get Mac´s just because it´s ´cool´ though, but if you got some knowledge about pc's, why would you pay more for a Mac?
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On February 16 2011 00:55 des wrote:Man this picture would look a lot better if he'd made it on a Mac :\
+1
Oh man this made me laugh.
although personally i dont see what ps3 and xbox have to do with anything... im starting to think people think computers are built for games only.. =o
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On February 18 2011 01:38 scBane wrote:
Of course a Mac is a good product, but the issue here is if it´s worth paying more for less, so I feel that your metaphor is a bit off here. Plus you act like any laptop other than a Mac breaks and is really hard to use which is not true.
Nah I'm not saying that at all. I fear I may have used too many words to communicate my point, and caused some confusion. I just need to accept that there are some people who simply can't see the value, and that's fine. For some, PCs are the perfect tool for the job.
All I'm trying to say is that, for me personally, and in my opinion most consumers, the Mac is worth the upfront investment. I feel that the benefits I have listed in my prior posts far outweigh the initial investment, I also feel that the bulk of people in this thread are overestimating the difference in price between a Mac and a PC, and that when you re-sell a Mac you will almost certainly make up most of the difference.
Hackintosh, and building a PC, to most consumers, are not worth the hassle or time commitment, plus you sacrifice the world-class support and re-sale value.
To reiterate, I'm not trying to convince anyone that every single situation demands a Mac and PCs are worthless. I'm just tired of the attitude that the only people who buy Macs are ignorant, when in fact it's almost always the Mac-bashers who are extremely ignorant.
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On February 17 2011 22:51 telfire wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 18:58 yourwhiteshadow wrote:On February 17 2011 18:42 telfire wrote:
Yourwhiteshadow, you're entitled to your opinion and you seem to have reached it at least partially logically (your Mac CAN play CS:S though, NATIVELY IN MAC OS X, and for the things that's not true of, you can still run Windows). Then you go off and call everyone who buys a mac a "fool" multiple times, despite listing a ton of reasons why Macs are better. That's not the way to have a constructive conversation. I've tried to play CS:S natively, it sucks. Its just really terrible, can't play L4D2 or TF2 either with decent settings. I mean, even on the lower settings, I can't get higher than 40 fps. My computer from 2004 was able to play CS:S at a decent resolution with decent settings. I just don't understand. If it makes you feel better, I'm a fool too for giving into the MAC hype. One of the main reasons I bought it was because my GF had one, and my best friend had one. I thought it'd be cool. But honestly, if we want to be constructive, we're better off buying faster hardware. Also, for me this is a little touchy subject. I run a charity where I refurbish computers that are donated, and I donate them to kids who need them. I don't think people realize how blessed we are to even have computers. A lot of people just don't own their own computers, plain and simple. It hurts me to see people go get MACs, and then trash them later on because there isn't anything else to do with them. Yah, there are *nix distros for PowerPC, but the processors are like dinosaurs. I can't refurb those for kids. Even in 5 years, if I want to refurb an Apple computer, I'm going to have way more issues because of the EFI or w/e. But my main point, is that we have the option to choose, and yet we don't realize most people don't even have the option. There is no MAC, there is no reason to capitalize it, it is a Mac. It is short for Macintosh. It is and was never MAC. This is a minor issue, but a pet peeve of mine and just one example of how ignorant you are on the subject. Ignorance is not a crime, but having a loud pronounced opinion and stating that anyone who disagrees with it is a fool is just pure douchebaggery. For one, 40FPS is fine, not even close to "really terrible"... The human eye can't distinguish beyond 30, so 40 is fine and while more obviously shows better performance, that is FINE to play games with. You can get Macs that will get way more than that. The point of a computer is WHAT IT IS CAPABLE OF, and artificial numbers being higher is meaningless to the average computer user. The important thing is how it behaves, and Mac OS X is far better than Windows IMO. Anyways, if you RUN WINDOWS you will get 100% native performance on ANY game. Do you not even realize this? You can run Windows NATIVELY on any Intel Mac, and it will perform as good or better than equivalent speed PC. So you went from "can't even play it" to plays it "just terribly" and now I'm telling you that you can run it at 100% speed that a PC could. Care to change your story again? If people are trashing their Mac they are losing out. The things resell MUCH better than PCs do. PCs do not even last nearly as long as Macs on average, in my experience a PC lasts till it dies and then you replace it. Rarely is an old PC worth repairing unless you just have the parts lying around anyway. A Mac will just keep on going, 15 years or so most of the time. Yes, the technology gets better and makes the old ones look pretty poor, this is every bit as true for PCs as well, a very old PC is going to be very slow trying to do any modern tasks. That's just how technology works, you can't hold it against Mac if you're not going to hold it against PC. Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion as I said, but don't be a douchebag about it. I have an opinion to, and I am absolutely not a fool. My opinion is educated, and backed with tons of reasoning. I have used both types of systems extensively and I massively prefer this one. As for your little anecdote about how fortunate we are, it's irrelevant. I know people will use their emotions instead of their brain and think me a horrible person for saying it, but there being poor people in the world has absolutely no bearing, affect, or relevance to my computer choice. And claiming you can't refurb a Mac is absolutely ludicrous, Macs are far far FAR better for that purpose as I have repeatedly stated... They hold their resale value for a good reason. What would you rather have, a car that can go 500 miles per hour but doesn't pass safety, breaks after a while, and requires reading a manual to operate, or a car that can go 450 miles per hour and is drop dead simple to use, lasts a long time, and resells for more used? Chances are, you'll never max out the speed anyway. I wouldn't blame anyone who wanted the fast car, but for most people the slower one would be a much better choice because it is better designed in other ways. Speed is not even close to the only aspect people look at when buying a car. Likewise, Macs have many benefits that are not bleeding edge performance and 16 core processing, which is required by literally nothing, and very few programs even benefit slightly from.
stop attacking the arguer instead of his argument. and also, it's 60 fps for humans, not 30fps. get your "educated reasoning" right please. 30fps?! that's horrible... lol
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On February 17 2011 17:13 telfire wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 17 2011 14:37 blue` wrote:Don't really want to get into it, but Show nested quote +On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote: Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. You are misinformed and incorrect. All you have to know how to do is burn a CD, boot from it, insert your retail OS X disc and install from it. Then use 1 nicely written utility once the installation is done to install some kexts (basically drivers). Thats it, and everything works fine. There are also multiple large communities dedicated to it, so chances are any piece of hardware you have is supported, and any problems you run into can be solved by a forum search. I'm not misinformed or incorrect. I've used it myself. If you don't really want to get into it, don't call me a liar. If you're going to be a dick, at least back it up. It's not as simple as you say unless you purposely buy 100% compatible parts, and while things may have gotten better since I used it, it is still a HACK that is against the terms of service, it takes more time and knowledge to use, and has no customer support (no doubt you will point out that the community will help you out, but the community is often quite unhelpful). You will also get updates slower. I'm not saying it's evil or worthless or anything, but it is NOT for your average consumer.
There's no need to insult me, and perhaps you just weren't speaking with recent experience. The only thing relevant to the discussion at hand is how simple it is to do now, not whenever you did it. As of today, it is extremely simple, almost any configuration of pc based on an i3/i5/i7 will work fine. You don't have to wait for updates since you can use the OS X updater.
As for the community support, all I know is that it can be very helpful to people that haven't done it before, but I've never had a problem doing it so I've never needed support. I've installed it on an i5 based laptop and on an i7 based desktop.
Yes its against the terms of service. Personally I don't care, since I'm not going to buy hardware at inflated prices to be able to use the iOS SDK.
On February 17 2011 17:13 telfire wrote:
Mac can do EVERYTHING PC can do EXACTLY as well
The reverse is just as true. You just pay less
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DqoIX.jpg)
