find me another 11'' laptop with a 1gb graphics card please. alienware was my only option.
You do realize a 10gb 5670 will never be as good as a 768mb gtx 460 right? And this blog isn't about laptops, we already established that Mac may be worthwhile for laptops. l2read.
Not many programs use more than 512mb of VRAM anyways. You may see 1-5fps increase by going from the 512 to 1GB version usually, while higher end model GPUs can change the FPS drastically. I'm sure it's your extensive computer knowledge that lead you to buy the alienware though.
End of discussion. This thread isn't about laptops.
for viruses, lets look at the market share windows is the majority of the market, and so the majority of viruses are made to target them apple has a smaller share, and so will see less viruses as macs grow, they will get more
That sounds so smart. "Windows makes the best computers, so lets use shitty ones because then no one will be retarded enough to make a virus for it!" Ignoring the security features of the new Windows 7/Vista 64 bit, and ignoring the fact that Microsoft Security Essentials, which is free and can be put on Mac or any PC, is arguably the best antivirus out right now, you're computer is 'vulnerable' to viruses no matter what the OS is, unless you have an antivirus, firewall, and malware protection.
Or, you could not fap-fap-fap and download torrents and sketchy emails and downloads. But i guess Mac users wouldn't know that, and you certainly wouldn't know that if you actually think Alienware is worth buying. You do realize that an Alienware is just a Dell with a GPU, and a crappy, bottlenecking one at that right?
And a smaller company with less resources will have less ability to address new security threats to a large company with the resources to deal with them proactively.
That reasoning just sounds so dumb. You intentionally buy a crappy/overpriced computer so you don't have to get a virus? You do realize you can just format your computer and get rid of viruses right? And how many times have viruses been a problem on your 'unsafe' alienware? Good thing you have the mac because your alienware has so many viruses right?
Good job being fooled by advertising. There are millions of viruses out there, and millions for Mac too. The problem is the ONE virus that gets by, that's ahead of today's security suites, that you got by being a dumbass and opening a sketchy program.
I thought we established in my previous post that a similary spec'd Mac with your system is only $300 after OS and hardware you didnt list. ($900 for your system vs $1200 for the 21.5" iMac). I dont know why you keep insisting your system was $350 since it doesnt list screen, psu, OS, keyboard, mouse, optical drive, etc.
We also established that the $2,700 MacPro does not come with peripherals or a screen either. Furthermore, I got my OS for free - if you want to say pirating is invalid, well, you're wrong, because the reality is that I got my Windows 7 Ultimate for free. BUT - for arguments sake, if pirating is out of bounds for most people, we'll say I'm running Ubuntu or similar freeware. Google also has a free operating system, Chromium, that you can get for free, that should be amazing.
And yes, Circuit City did go out of business. I dont understand your point.
my point is that what you claim what 'everyone does' may be faulty (not to mention horrible logic) because that company went out of business. I'm sure that was a great business model, overcharging people to convert VHS to DVD. I'm sure it has nothing to do with why they went out of business.
Still, the point is youre going to be charged an arm and a leg no matter where you go for whatever system you have (PC, Mac, car, dishwasher, whatever) if you dont know how to do it yourself.
A lot of PC's come with great warranties, something that Mac has a mixed reputation for. If you built your computer, usually places like Newegg, amazon, or the company itself like MSI or AMD offer great warranties. I've gone to bestbuy and had my laptop fixed many times when I knew nothing, because of my warranty. But I get your point - the point is that because it's an arm and a leg for everything, it doesnt swing the favor towards mac or pc either way.
TL;DR - Laptops are not what we are talking about, and much different. - The first person to actually claim Mac is better, bought an Alienware.
I have repeatedly referenced the above. It is a 21.5" iMac for $1200. IT COMES WITH A SCREEN, KEYBOARD, AND MOUSE.
And no, I don't count rebates and sales because they come and go. Anyone can just as easily say there's a student discount on Macs, free iPod, etc. But I'm comparing base prices because you're obviously not going to get an exact comparison.
I guess you have not been building computers long enough to realize there's a difference between generic and high quality parts. Sure you can piece together a bunch of parts, but there's a difference between a $300 and $60 mobo, a $40 and $120 PSU, etc. This is why, like I said, I am comparing parts as similar as I can.
To say you don't need an OS because you can use a free one? Time is just as costly to many people. In order to use most of those free OS's you need to learn how to use them. As someone, who does TECH WORK, has even stated in this thread, it's NICE to be able to go home and turn something on and KNOW it works. That's reason enough for most people -- To NOT have to tinker with their system. Sure, someone's 1969 Mustang GT may be faster than my 2006 Honda Accord, but I haven't had to do anything more than change the fluids and get new tires for the last 100,000 miles (if it's not obvious, I'm referring the American vs import car issue, which is arguable, I understand, so let's not get off topic). This is reason enough for me to stick with it and keep buying Japanese (unless they start sucking, in which case I'll look for the new best thing).
Best Buy charges the same or more for similar work Circuit City did. That's why it's logical to assume it had NOTHING to do with the prices. There ARE people out there WILLING to pay these prices and that's why they charge them. That's the bottom-line.
I don't know where you're getting your info on Mac warranties, but I'd like to see it if you have reference. As someone who dealt with warranties on a regular basis working at Circuit City and in my daily life (I purchase a lot of technical equipment -- built 3 computers in the last year not to mention gadgets and such; just had to RMA a couple mobos and RAM, a Core i7, and an MX518 in the last month), I can tell you from my experience that they're all virtually the same. Some stand out above the rest (i.e. Logitech and G.Skill). Again, just my experience, so I'm not going to say that as a matter of fact. The reason why I say that about the Mac warranties is because I've heard the complete opposite. Almost everyone I know who owns a Mac is MORE than happy to buy the extra warranties which can cost upwards of $300. The only extended warranty I've ever even purchased was on my iPhones and iPods. If people are willing to dish out that kind of money, I wonder why.
I guess I should have said this before, but look, I'm not arguing with you that Macs are "overpriced." I don't see myself buying one anytime soon. But, I'm merely trying to show you another perspective. I don't think anyone would agree with the $350 PC vs $3000 Mac you're blowing it up to be. The "overpriced-ness" though, is deemed negligible to most since they consider it to be a premium for the few niches Apple offers, albeit minor in some people's minds.
On February 16 2011 14:53 ScaryOlive wrote: I'm a student in Multimedia and Life without Mac to me make no sense. When doing Video Editing in a professional environment the mac is essential to work efficiently. Pro Tools, Avid Media Composer for exemples are much more fluid on a Mac Pro then a Pc. I don't know why technically(probably the Unix Os) but it's the way it is. For Audio Pc can do it very good but mainly video is the place for mac.
As for anything else, like home things and gaming the Pc is the way to go (as of me!)
Memory management on OSX and Windows is completely different. When you close a program in OSX, it stays in the RAM unless you actually kill the process so if you want to open up Photoshop again, it'll pop up quickly. With Windows when you close a program, you've closed the program. That's probably why you think it works efficiently and its also why OSX is awful if you don't have 4gb of RAM.
That being said, you really should be productive on both systems unless you use AppleScript or something. Both OSX and Windows can get solid Aero Snap and Expose functionality through third party software and the only difference between the two is Finder and Explorer, which can be better or worse depending on what you do. I help out a friend with his photography business and I find both systems similarly productive, of course this is likely different with video editing.
On February 16 2011 14:53 ScaryOlive wrote: I'm a student in Multimedia and Life without Mac to me make no sense. When doing Video Editing in a professional environment the mac is essential to work efficiently. Pro Tools, Avid Media Composer for exemples are much more fluid on a Mac Pro then a Pc. I don't know why technically(probably the Unix Os) but it's the way it is. For Audio Pc can do it very good but mainly video is the place for mac.
As for anything else, like home things and gaming the Pc is the way to go (as of me!)
Memory management on OSX and Windows is completely different. When you close a program in OSX, it stays in the RAM unless you actually kill the process so if you want to open up Photoshop again, it'll pop up quickly. With Windows when you close a program, you've closed the program. That's probably why you think it works efficiently and its also why OSX is awful if you don't have 4gb of RAM.
You are confusing application management with memory management. Memory management is pretty much the same nowadays.
The difference is in application management, where in OS X, closing the last window of a program is not the same as quitting the program. That does not say anything about how OS X manages the resources to keep the programs running.
Mac OS had memory management problems prior to OS X, where the OS had to pre-allocate all the memory the program was expected to use, even if it was not going to use it.
I would never buy a mac desktop, but i think apple makes fantastic laptops. Ive had my macbook for 4 years now, and it still runs at the same speed I bought it at.
General rule of thumb: Desktop: windows Laptop: mac Aging Computer: linux
Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
uh really, i built a 400mhz 1st geneneration celeron pc with 32mb geforce 2, dvd drive, a 60gb hd, and 512mb ram in 2000
it ran up until august when i was FORCED to throw it away, it worked fine for bw, photoshop 7, office xp (an win XP sp3 at the end)
how many times did i reformat it, once. when i went from win2000 to xp and i hated the upgrade OS option, screwed me up when i went from 95 to 98
how many viruses infected it, none (though 2 ex girlfriends did try). i ran norton systemworks 2000 until avast came along
browser, it used them all, IE 4, nutscrape navigator, opera (when you had to buy it to remove ads), opera (after it became ad free) then finally firefox (damn you adblock+ & skipscreen for spoiling me)
now that hunk of junk cost me nearly $500 (my life savings of a 10th grader) how certified was i, none. i figured if it fits, im putting it in the right place, which worked i got my A+ certification 4 months later.
by comparison my 02 graduation gift of a dell for $2000 had a 120gb hd, 128mb ati something, 2ghz p4, dvd/cdrw and 1gb ram i had problems with it from the first year onward. i sent it off and they replaced the dvdrw. then i needed a new mobo cuz it stopped working finally 20 days after my 3 year service plan died, it killed itself and i gave it away this summer for my friend to perform surgery on
my macbook pro? had it since summer... we've sent it back to apple 3 times so far, touchpad stopped, usb port stopped working, and the screen stopped getting power what do i run on it? office, photoshop (basic contrast brightness adjustment), and BLAST searching on NIH's website
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Assuming he bought a GTX460, it actually probably perform better in gaming you know!
Everything else? Who gives a shit, you can't tell the difference between rock bottom Athlon II or one of those $1k Intel Gulftowns for normal office work.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
Dunno about the USA, but if you want a true quad core processor and a GPU that can actually handle graphically intensive games decently you're going to pay over $2000 AUD for one unless you don't mind dealing with refurbished goods.
On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote: Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information.
You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes.
Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. Here
And cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot..
Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/programmers/casual users.
You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself.
edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
On February 17 2011 02:40 AyeH wrote: edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
Oh bullshit.
I bought a 13" MacBook Pro because I wanted to have a laptop for university that has a long lasting battery while still being able to run games quite smoothly. I have successfully ran WoW and SC2 and The Orange Box games on Steam on OSX and BFBC2 on Windows 7 through Boot Camp. Obviously, if I am going to play games, I'd still play them on a desktop if I have the choice, but the laptop has helped me greatly while I was feeling sick or away from home.
As for Mac desktops, yeah, I probably wouldn't buy one, especially for gaming, I prefer having a Windows system for that.
On February 15 2011 13:32 emperorchampion wrote: Hahaha, my favourite in-lecture game is to guess the Mac to non-mac ratio. Usually about 70-90% of all laptops are Macs lol... ahh University students- so educated. :D
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Assuming he bought a GTX460, it actually probably perform better in gaming you know!
Everything else? Who gives a shit, you can't tell the difference between rock bottom Athlon II or one of those $1k Intel Gulftowns for normal office work.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
Dunno about the USA, but if you want a true quad core processor and a GPU that can actually handle graphically intensive games decently you're going to pay over $2000 AUD for one unless you don't mind dealing with refurbished goods.
The incorrectness of your post is palpable.
My graphics card is either superior or roughly in the same ballpark, though I honestly am not too up to date between the nVidia and ATI modern cards. Regardless, my HD 5750 does the trick quite well (Ultra everything at 30 FPS in Mac OS X, I can assume in Windows it would be about 60+FPS -- and yes, I will admit Mac OS X is at a temporary disadvantage for gaming, though running Windows is an option so I do not see that as a mark against the Mac itself by any means).
There is no incorrectness in my post. Everything I stated was either a fact or an opinion. None of it was fabricated, unlike the vast majority of misinformation in this thread about Macs. You have absolutely failed to point out ANYTHING in my post that was false, or make any counter-arguments of any kind.
Pretty unfair IMO to say Macs are expensive because you can make a crappy PC with shoddy parts for $300 and you have to pay $2000 for a really high-end professionally manufactured Mac. Apples to oranges and such. As for "can actually handle graphically intensive games", you don't need anywhere remotely near the specs you mentioned, depending I suppose on your definition of "graphically intensive".
More importantly, I didn't say "you can get a bleeding edge Mac for under $2000". But there are a ton of models of Mac that you CAN get for as little as $800, all of which will play StarCraft 2. You can also get PCs for $5000+. The allegation I was responding to was that the cheapest Mac is $2000 -- SIMPLY ABSURD.
On February 17 2011 02:40 AyeH wrote: You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes.
Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. Here
And cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot..
Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/programmers/casual users.
You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself.
edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
Sorry, but Macs are better than PCs. That is my opinion. It has nothing to do with ignorance, quite the contrary it is based on a ton of experience with many different kinds of both types of systems. And based on the fact that Macs can run Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux, while PCs can run Windows and Linux, it's a very sustainable opinion.
Most of the cases on that site I have seen before, and I find a lot of them gaudy, ugly, and bulky. Others, however, are pretty cool looking, and I would have nothing against them, but I still would not put them in the same league as Apple's design, which is world-class (not to mention more practical than the traditional tower). Once again, my taste has absolutely no relation to my computing knowledge.
Everything I said was either 100% accurate or simply an opinion, which I am entitled to.
It's funny, I always come to these threads and participate by sharing what I think is better about the Mac, and explaining all the things that are truly, factually superior about them. But no one ever argues my points. Instead, they call me ignorant, stupid, or pick on my taste.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
uh really, i built a 400mhz 1st geneneration celeron pc with 32mb geforce 2, dvd drive, a 60gb hd, and 512mb ram in 2000
it ran up until august when i was FORCED to throw it away, it worked fine for bw, photoshop 7, office xp (an win XP sp3 at the end)
how many times did i reformat it, once. when i went from win2000 to xp and i hated the upgrade OS option, screwed me up when i went from 95 to 98
how many viruses infected it, none (though 2 ex girlfriends did try). i ran norton systemworks 2000 until avast came along
browser, it used them all, IE 4, nutscrape navigator, opera (when you had to buy it to remove ads), opera (after it became ad free) then finally firefox (damn you adblock+ & skipscreen for spoiling me)
now that hunk of junk cost me nearly $500 (my life savings of a 10th grader) how certified was i, none. i figured if it fits, im putting it in the right place, which worked i got my A+ certification 4 months later.
by comparison my 02 graduation gift of a dell for $2000 had a 120gb hd, 128mb ati something, 2ghz p4, dvd/cdrw and 1gb ram i had problems with it from the first year onward. i sent it off and they replaced the dvdrw. then i needed a new mobo cuz it stopped working finally 20 days after my 3 year service plan died, it killed itself and i gave it away this summer for my friend to perform surgery on
my macbook pro? had it since summer... we've sent it back to apple 3 times so far, touchpad stopped, usb port stopped working, and the screen stopped getting power what do i run on it? office, photoshop (basic contrast brightness adjustment), and BLAST searching on NIH's website
I don't see what any of this has to do with what you quoted. So you got an extremely low-end system for cheaper than you can get a Mac. Great. It's not a fair comparison in the slightest though. I've worked on a PowerMac for over a decade and it's still running strong, only extremely recently did it stop getting OS updates. I could sell it for at least $100. How much do you think you could sell a 12 year old PC for? IF it was still running...
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a Mac but I have owned 6 and they have all been fantastic. What few problems I have had have been promptly solved, most of the time for free even if I was out of warranty.
We can go back and forth on circumstantial evidence all day long but in the end you would lose that argument, because Apple has the highest customer satisfaction rating of anyone. What, you think all of us just buy it for the pretty colors and then keep buying it for that? No. I use my computers a LOT. I love using Macs, I really truly feel they are better than PCs in every single way. I'm not sipping koolaid or sucking Jobs' dick, I just have an opinion that is based on experience.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
uh really, i built a 400mhz 1st geneneration celeron pc with 32mb geforce 2, dvd drive, a 60gb hd, and 512mb ram in 2000
it ran up until august when i was FORCED to throw it away, it worked fine for bw, photoshop 7, office xp (an win XP sp3 at the end)
how many times did i reformat it, once. when i went from win2000 to xp and i hated the upgrade OS option, screwed me up when i went from 95 to 98
how many viruses infected it, none (though 2 ex girlfriends did try). i ran norton systemworks 2000 until avast came along
browser, it used them all, IE 4, nutscrape navigator, opera (when you had to buy it to remove ads), opera (after it became ad free) then finally firefox (damn you adblock+ & skipscreen for spoiling me)
now that hunk of junk cost me nearly $500 (my life savings of a 10th grader) how certified was i, none. i figured if it fits, im putting it in the right place, which worked i got my A+ certification 4 months later.
by comparison my 02 graduation gift of a dell for $2000 had a 120gb hd, 128mb ati something, 2ghz p4, dvd/cdrw and 1gb ram i had problems with it from the first year onward. i sent it off and they replaced the dvdrw. then i needed a new mobo cuz it stopped working finally 20 days after my 3 year service plan died, it killed itself and i gave it away this summer for my friend to perform surgery on
my macbook pro? had it since summer... we've sent it back to apple 3 times so far, touchpad stopped, usb port stopped working, and the screen stopped getting power what do i run on it? office, photoshop (basic contrast brightness adjustment), and BLAST searching on NIH's website
I don't understand this circular reasoning. Like he already stated, he wanted something that he didn't have to tinker with. You're A+ certified. Congrats (really, no sarcasm). The average user isn't. Getting A+ certified takes time (and money). That added cost to your system is much more expensive to a lot of people.
Also, your 400mhz celeron ran for nearly a decade? Well great... but just because you can build it cheaper and have it last (which you should expect it too) doesn't mean it's what you'll want to run for an entire decade. As he already stated, most Macs are spec'd out to run for several years without having to get upgrades, reason enough for most to pay the premium. Is there no reason at all why Apple products can be resold for ridiculous amounts? I sold two 60GB Classic iPods in January for $100 each. People can resell their Macs for 40% of what they paid 4-5+ years later.
On February 16 2011 02:35 alffla wrote: yo yoyoyo so what i REALLY DONT GET IS why are designers and artists and whatever people artsy people always praising mac?
like what makes macs so much better for doing design related stuff lol
Advertising. Apple has hipsters and beginning artists convinced that Macs are better than Windows PCs for making music, drawing, editing photos, etc. when the Windows computers do the same thing just as well, if not better. I think there are 1 or 2 amazing programs that are exclusive to Macs but I don't think it's amazing enough to warrant the price tag.
Logic Studio is a good program for amateur musicians and producers I guess, but it's interface is terribly insulting to professionals and other people who use Pro Tools. :X
edit About the price though, while PCs are cheaper, does the average user have a good enough judgment to avoid trojans and shit like that and then fix the problem without the help of some scam like Geek Squad? I doubt it, a lot of people probably get fed up with viruses, not realizing their mistakes, and buy Macs.
On February 16 2011 02:35 alffla wrote: yo yoyoyo so what i REALLY DONT GET IS why are designers and artists and whatever people artsy people always praising mac?
like what makes macs so much better for doing design related stuff lol
Advertising. Apple has hipsters and beginning artists convinced that Macs are better than Windows PCs for making music, drawing, editing photos, etc. when the Windows computers do the same thing just as well, if not better. I think there are 1 or 2 amazing programs that are exclusive to Macs but I don't think it's amazing enough to warrant the price tag.
Logic Studio is a good program for amateur musicians and producers I guess, but it's interface is terribly insulting to professionals and other people who use Pro Tools. :X
edit About the price though, while PCs are cheaper, does the average user have a good enough judgment to avoid trojans and shit like that and then fix the problem without the help of some scam like Geek Squad? I doubt it, a lot of people probably get fed up with viruses, not realizing their mistakes, and buy Macs.
1 or 2? There are hundreds of Mac-only programs available to creative types. A huge majority of software available for Mac, in my experience, is superior in both functionality and UI design. Not to mention, Mac OS X itself, has a far superior UI. There are decent programs for PC, but there are a LOT more choice on the Mac side for most things.
There's a ton of posts by people who like their macs, with plenty of legitimate reasons. WHY is it that all you Mac-haters simply ignore them and insult our intelligence and claim fanboyism?
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Assuming he bought a GTX460, it actually probably perform better in gaming you know!
Everything else? Who gives a shit, you can't tell the difference between rock bottom Athlon II or one of those $1k Intel Gulftowns for normal office work.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
Dunno about the USA, but if you want a true quad core processor and a GPU that can actually handle graphically intensive games decently you're going to pay over $2000 AUD for one unless you don't mind dealing with refurbished goods.
The incorrectness of your post is palpable.
My graphics card is either superior or roughly in the same ballpark, though I honestly am not too up to date between the nVidia and ATI modern cards. Regardless, my HD 5750 does the trick quite well (Ultra everything at 30 FPS in Mac OS X, I can assume in Windows it would be about 60+FPS -- and yes, I will admit Mac OS X is at a temporary disadvantage for gaming, though running Windows is an option so I do not see that as a mark against the Mac itself by any means).
There is no incorrectness in my post. Everything I stated was either a fact or an opinion. None of it was fabricated, unlike the vast majority of misinformation in this thread about Macs. You have absolutely failed to point out ANYTHING in my post that was false, or make any counter-arguments of any kind.
Pretty unfair IMO to say Macs are expensive because you can make a crappy PC with shoddy parts for $300 and you have to pay $2000 for a really high-end professionally manufactured Mac. Apples to oranges and such. As for "can actually handle graphically intensive games", you don't need anywhere remotely near the specs you mentioned, depending I suppose on your definition of "graphically intensive".
More importantly, I didn't say "you can get a bleeding edge Mac for under $2000". But there are a ton of models of Mac that you CAN get for as little as $800, all of which will play StarCraft 2. You can also get PCs for $5000+. The allegation I was responding to was that the cheapest Mac is $2000 -- SIMPLY ABSURD.
On February 17 2011 02:40 AyeH wrote: You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes.
Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. Here
And cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot..
Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/programmers/casual users.
You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself.
edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
Sorry, but Macs are better than PCs. That is my opinion. It has nothing to do with ignorance, quite the contrary it is based on a ton of experience with many different kinds of both types of systems. And based on the fact that Macs can run Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux, while PCs can run Windows and Linux, it's a very sustainable opinion.
Most of the cases on that site I have seen before, and I find a lot of them gaudy, ugly, and bulky. Others, however, are pretty cool looking, and I would have nothing against them, but I still would not put them in the same league as Apple's design, which is world-class (not to mention more practical than the traditional tower). Once again, my taste has absolutely no relation to my computing knowledge.
Everything I said was either 100% accurate or simply an opinion, which I am entitled to.
It's funny, I always come to these threads and participate by sharing what I think is better about the Mac, and explaining all the things that are truly, factually superior about them. But no one ever argues my points. Instead, they call me ignorant, stupid, or pick on my taste.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
uh really, i built a 400mhz 1st geneneration celeron pc with 32mb geforce 2, dvd drive, a 60gb hd, and 512mb ram in 2000
it ran up until august when i was FORCED to throw it away, it worked fine for bw, photoshop 7, office xp (an win XP sp3 at the end)
how many times did i reformat it, once. when i went from win2000 to xp and i hated the upgrade OS option, screwed me up when i went from 95 to 98
how many viruses infected it, none (though 2 ex girlfriends did try). i ran norton systemworks 2000 until avast came along
browser, it used them all, IE 4, nutscrape navigator, opera (when you had to buy it to remove ads), opera (after it became ad free) then finally firefox (damn you adblock+ & skipscreen for spoiling me)
now that hunk of junk cost me nearly $500 (my life savings of a 10th grader) how certified was i, none. i figured if it fits, im putting it in the right place, which worked i got my A+ certification 4 months later.
by comparison my 02 graduation gift of a dell for $2000 had a 120gb hd, 128mb ati something, 2ghz p4, dvd/cdrw and 1gb ram i had problems with it from the first year onward. i sent it off and they replaced the dvdrw. then i needed a new mobo cuz it stopped working finally 20 days after my 3 year service plan died, it killed itself and i gave it away this summer for my friend to perform surgery on
my macbook pro? had it since summer... we've sent it back to apple 3 times so far, touchpad stopped, usb port stopped working, and the screen stopped getting power what do i run on it? office, photoshop (basic contrast brightness adjustment), and BLAST searching on NIH's website
I don't see what any of this has to do with what you quoted. So you got an extremely low-end system for cheaper than you can get a Mac. Great. It's not a fair comparison in the slightest though. I've worked on a PowerMac for over a decade and it's still running strong, only extremely recently did it stop getting OS updates. I could sell it for at least $100. How much do you think you could sell a 12 year old PC for? IF it was still running...
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a Mac but I have owned 6 and they have all been fantastic. What few problems I have had have been promptly solved, most of the time for free even if I was out of warranty.
We can go back and forth on circumstantial evidence all day long but in the end you would lose that argument, because Apple has the highest customer satisfaction rating of anyone. What, you think all of us just buy it for the pretty colors and then keep buying it for that? No. I use my computers a LOT. I love using Macs, I really truly feel they are better than PCs in every single way. I'm not sipping koolaid or sucking Jobs' dick, I just have an opinion that is based on experience.
You call other people ignorant for saying that PCs are better and then you cry about being called ignorant? That makes no sense.
Also, those cases are all much better than the cases made by Apple. World class cases by Apple? Rofl, are you serious? Lian Li, Corsair, Antec make WAY better cases than Apple in style, space, and usefulness.
PCs are used worldwide by 90% and Mac by 9%. If Mac was so great, why is it not the other way around. Numbers show that PCs are a more bang for buck deal.
Plus, Macs have nowhere near the capacity of PCs in terms of power in GPU, CPU, PSU,RAM, etc and other hardware support. And also, PCs have equaled Macs strengths in digital imaging, photoshop, etc. Also, the PC has so much more software available for it then Macs. That is inarguable.
And also, the reason Macs don't have viruses is because there are less mac users, so hackers don't care to create viruses that affect Macs since there are so few of them. That's the only reason. A simple anti-virus for a PC solves this problem.
Oh and read this. Mac and Pc Looks like Macs are "victims of cybercrime just as often as PC users"
I know that my friends who are Mac users like it because there is less chance of getting viruses, they come with better software (eg. Garage Band), they are sleaker and sexier. And they can always load Windows on them so that they can still use their PC software anyway. Only bad part seems to be the high price.
There is absolutely no reason to buy a mac unless you need the unix interface (which you don't) or have a ton of extra money to spend (which it doesn't sound like). The interface is the same (windows 7 > osx), the hardware is the same, the only difference is that the external features are nicer (macs look pretty when turned off). However, the cost of the osx operating system is simply not worth it. The reason mac's "feel" smoother is that a lot of people still use windows xp which has a ton of viruses written for it. Eventually as macs get more popular, software will be written to hack the osx operating system (and there already is). From a business standpoint, there is no reason to use a mac over a pc. For a consumer standpoint, for most people it's not worth the cost. For some people, owning the mac brand is a part of their identity. Most tech blogs follow mac with a passion and believe that jobs is the savior of technology. Jobs is an excellent marketer and you really are just buying a label when you purchase their product.
Obviously not everything mac is overpriced. The ipod is a great device and they really deserve the money they made off of it, but apple is starting to realize that they need to offer alternatives to low-budget consumers if they really want a larger share of the market http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2380286,00.asp
My graphics card is either superior or roughly in the same ballpark, though I honestly am not too up to date between the nVidia and ATI modern cards. Regardless, my HD 5750 does the trick quite well (Ultra everything at 30 FPS in Mac OS X, I can assume in Windows it would be about 60+FPS -- and yes, I will admit Mac OS X is at a temporary disadvantage for gaming, though running Windows is an option so I do not see that as a mark against the Mac itself by any means).
No, HD5750 is no where near a GTX460 1GB. Not even close. Sorry but that's you can't even justify that with "opinion" because you're actually factually incorrect.
The reason HD5750s are used in the high end iMacs is because its possibly the card with the best performance/cost/heat output at the time. iMacs have to be designed around heat output so they can't just jam any sort of video card in there.
There is no incorrectness in my post. Everything I stated was either a fact or an opinion. None of it was fabricated, unlike the vast majority of misinformation in this thread about Macs. You have absolutely failed to point out ANYTHING in my post that was false, or make any counter-arguments of any kind.
OK I'll do it for you:
Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
Wrong: You never have to deal with outsourced customer service because they aren't big enough to afford it and often bank on brand loyalty to keep customers buying their stuff, exactly how Apple does it. You buy from Antec/EVGA/Silverstone/g.skill and you generally deal with people who actually care about your situation and they're generally very good about the RMA services. No where near as good as AppleCare but good enough that its nothing more than a mere annoyance.
Just like everything else you buy, you buy stuff you know that is good. And no, it isn't more expensive that the cheap shit Antec and Corsair don't slap huge price premiums because of good consumer service.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
That's one of only two things you're right about. Awfully specific though, let me guess you ran through a checklist of what makes a iMac good and just posted that.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
The second thing you are right about.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
Wrong: $2000 is the 21" i5 750 iMac in the Apple Store in Australia. I don't know about the USA but that's how much I have to pay for a true quad core computer. No, that stuff isn't intended for HD video editing or servers, that's for the Mac Pro and the xserves.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
You get get a Phenom II and a HD6850 for $400 and it will undoubtedly outperform any current iMac in gaming.
No the hardware here isn't bad quality unless you think AMD products are going to explode after two years.
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
He made a really awful post, so did you.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
You're mostly right, but what the hell does this even mean.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
All computer parts come from the same people. Ergo they all will last the same amount of time as each other. Just like a normal computer, Macs and PCs both get DOA hardware and you can't do anything about that.
A lot of people with desktops have been using them for a long time. A lot of places still use old Pentium 4 computers that are still kicking.
Pretty unfair IMO to say Macs are expensive because you can make a crappy PC with shoddy parts for $300 and you have to pay $2000 for a really high-end professionally manufactured Mac. Apples to oranges and such. As for "can actually handle graphically intensive games", you don't need anywhere remotely near the specs you mentioned, depending I suppose on your definition of "graphically intensive".
You can't play any modern game, Just Cause 2 for example, on anything but the lowest settings with that video card because to was fairly low range when it came out.
Guess what, Macs use the exact same parts as people use in their computers. All computer shit comes from asian OEMs. There is no "Mac hardware is higher quality than self bought hardware" because they're all the same shit from guys like Foxconn, Hynix, LG, and Samsung. Most PC manufacturers are just some form of these guys and simply rebadge parts.
More importantly, I didn't say "you can get a bleeding edge Mac for under $2000". But there are a ton of models of Mac that you CAN get for as little as $800, all of which will play StarCraft 2. You can also get PCs for $5000+. The allegation I was responding to was that the cheapest Mac is $2000 -- SIMPLY ABSURD.
And those $800 Macs are awful. The solid white plastic unibody Macbooks are simply there for the same reason many manufactures wedge stupidly underspecced and overpriced laptops between more solid products - its to make people go the extra mile and spend more money on the better product, which in this case is the Macbook Pro.
Either way you need a "bleeding edge" iMac if you want to play games on an acceptable quality (medium shaders for example). If you can't you might as well just get a console, which is an entirely valid and probably the smartest idea because PC gaming is basically filled with console ports. And you can use the Mac's screen to play the console, its actually a perfectly fine idea but make no mistake that its hardly an option if you want to play modern computer games on it.
On February 16 2011 02:35 alffla wrote: yo yoyoyo so what i REALLY DONT GET IS why are designers and artists and whatever people artsy people always praising mac?
like what makes macs so much better for doing design related stuff lol
Advertising. Apple has hipsters and beginning artists convinced that Macs are better than Windows PCs for making music, drawing, editing photos, etc. when the Windows computers do the same thing just as well, if not better. I think there are 1 or 2 amazing programs that are exclusive to Macs but I don't think it's amazing enough to warrant the price tag.
Logic Studio is a good program for amateur musicians and producers I guess, but it's interface is terribly insulting to professionals and other people who use Pro Tools. :X
edit About the price though, while PCs are cheaper, does the average user have a good enough judgment to avoid trojans and shit like that and then fix the problem without the help of some scam like Geek Squad? I doubt it, a lot of people probably get fed up with viruses, not realizing their mistakes, and buy Macs.
1 or 2? There are hundreds of Mac-only programs available to creative types. A huge majority of software available for Mac, in my experience, is superior in both functionality and UI design. Not to mention, Mac OS X itself, has a far superior UI. There are decent programs for PC, but there are a LOT more choice on the Mac side for most things.
There's a ton of posts by people who like their macs, with plenty of legitimate reasons. WHY is it that all you Mac-haters simply ignore them and insult our intelligence and claim fanboyism?
i in terms of UI, thats the most subjective thing..i've tried using macs before it just seems like its kind of reversed windows. like how the menu bar is on the top instead of the start menu along the bottom for windows? or its kind of combined..
so say if i just use photoshop mostly and not any other 'exclusive mac' programs then there's not much reason to get a mac over a pc right
EPT
