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On February 16 2011 06:36 D4L[invd] wrote:
Another annoying thing about windows is that to program, you have to download a bunch of IDEs and it becomes kinda heavy and lags the system. For example, i have like, 11 IDEs. and it's so annoying cuz sometimes i wanna run a java back-end to a perl front-end and it takes alot of time to set-up... and i dont' wanna use those ultra heavy ides like eclipse that does all the project management shit for you... I'm gna switch to linux asap hehehe, it's soooo much better because u got vim and emac and that's pretty much all you need ^^
I agree with most of your post, but this one is just stupid.
If you need 11 IDEs, regardless which platform you are on, you are going to need 11 IDEs. You know you can install vim on Windows right...?
If you don't use Eclipse on a mac/linux, you aren't going to use it on Windows.
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On February 16 2011 08:50 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2011 06:36 D4L[invd] wrote:
Another annoying thing about windows is that to program, you have to download a bunch of IDEs and it becomes kinda heavy and lags the system. For example, i have like, 11 IDEs. and it's so annoying cuz sometimes i wanna run a java back-end to a perl front-end and it takes alot of time to set-up... and i dont' wanna use those ultra heavy ides like eclipse that does all the project management shit for you... I'm gna switch to linux asap hehehe, it's soooo much better because u got vim and emac and that's pretty much all you need ^^
I agree with most of your post, but this one is just stupid. If you need 11 IDEs, regardless which platform you are on, you are going to need 11 IDEs. You know you can install vim on Windows right...? If you don't use Eclipse on a mac/linux, you aren't going to use it on Windows.
Yes, i know I can use vim on Windows, but on linux, vim comes automatically and you can compile programs straight on vim. Also, if i get vim on Windows, it's pretty much another ide. and it's going to be harder to setup.
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Okay, I agree with that. I retract that comment, especially the first line.
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On February 16 2011 06:36 D4L[invd] wrote:*Long Post Removed* Anyways.... in general, macs aren't as shitty as ppl think they are. they're just expensive as hell. But they are stable like crazy and rarely crashes. But it's rather silly to compare since you can run the same applications on both macs and pcs and also, alot of linux software have mac counterparts  Oh... one of the reasons you would like windows is because you can customize the build and i suppose that's why alot of people admire it... I'm not a hardware person, just software and they're pretty much the same, if you're a programmer, seriously go for linux. Linux.. but I want to be able to watch youtube videos in full screen without getting the screen to freeze!
It's true my profs recommend linux, and they have it on some of the school computers, but I think it would be best to do a dual partition, not a full linux computer. Virtual (eg vmware) OS is slow. Don't do that.
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why do you keep bringing up that mac pro to compare? that's obviously not consumer level hardware.
you can tell simply by the processor: it comes with an intel xeon.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117182&cm_re=xeon-_-19-117-182-_-Product
wow that's already $1000! gee no wonder everyone is looking at the iMac when you're trying to make this stupid comparison!
i don't know what the difference is between a xeon and a regular processor, but it's obvious that it's used for more than sc2.
and on top of that you just can't buy os x and install it in on any pc. we've established that already.
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i've used macs before. i don't particularly like them but i can see why people like them.
first of all you have to consider who's using the computer and for what purpose, and what their relative skill level is.
how many of us have used a friend's computer and seen it filled with tons of crap and running slow as hell? that's who mac is for. they just want to do simple things safely, like browse the internet, chat with friends, look at pictures, etc.
fine you can get someone to build you a computer. that doesn't mean it's safe. antivirus programs aren't 100%. you can unknowingly install trojan horses/keyloggers or whatever. and since windows is the most popular platform, most of these viruses are designed for it. yes there are viruses for mac too, but they're not as common. even my computer got jacked by malware that tried to get me to buy their fake antivirus, and i know my stuff. i would totally recommend a mac for these people that i don't trust with computer usage. and there are a lot of them out there.
i'm totally down with linux even though i'm not a poweruser, but it requires a lot of understanding and time which some people just really don't wanna invest in. i'd make my kids use it because they should have all the time in the world.
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Seems like a lot of the posts here on both sides are pretty ignorant and just looking at numbers. I personally have: 1) macbook pro 2) HP laptop 3) mac mini 4) desktop PC with ubuntu and I've owned many computers with many operating systems Computers can be good for different things. #3 on that list is kind of stupidly expensive for what it is, but I put it to awesome use, it doesn't clutter my entertainment unit and when I have guests come over I don't need to teach them how to use it because a child could, that's great for any kind of entertainment center device.
My macbook is pretty old and getting less use now that I have my mac mini, but when I want smooth gui interface and to be able to do development with a decent terminal, a mac is a much better choice than a PC. Go to many firms that do a lot of java development and you'll find that the people there don't have windows laptops or linux laptops, but macbook pros instead and there's good reason for this, it's an easy out of the box laptop for doing development work while not having to waste time getting basic entertainment stuff to work.
I've actually had a few laptops with ubuntu, but it's really inconvenient to get everything you want to work on it. That's why when I got a job that paid well, I stopped having ubuntu laptops, wasn't worth my time to maintain and I didn't enjoy doing it anymore.
As for windows, well the #1 reason I keep a windows laptop is for chess. Most chess engines really will max out everything you can give it both in terms of memory and computational power. Unfortunately windows is getting a bigger and bigger footprint, but running these programs on mac through parallels, wine, etc has always gotten ridiculously bad performance for me and I take my analysis too seriously to waste my time doing it with a lesser computer.
When I sit at work I have a windows box, a mac, and an ubuntu install in front of me (3 separate computers) and I can tell you if you're looking for something cheap and reliable you can't beat the ubuntu box. I've gone 6 months without restarting it before and without issues and every time I restart my mac or windows box I always notice a substantial increase in performance due to very poor memory management and user control in both, but they do things better.
TL,DR: Different computers are good for different things, the time spent building/maintaining a computer is not free unless there's nothing you'd rather be doing or you're a worthless human being (which if you can build and maintain a computer, you're probably not).
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5930 Posts
iMacs aren't that more expensive than you think.
The standard iMac when it came out had ~$1000 hardware. Throw in a $1100 screen and it comes to $2100 , which is around the price of the 27" iMac, then you have to include the small form factor, keyboard, and mouse.
The panel, IIRC, is basically the same LG panel used in the high end Dells and HPs and the extremely large resolution, image quality, and vivid colours doesn't come cheap (yes you can notice the difference between an IPS/*VA and TN screen easily even when reading text). A high quality screen is something people want when buying a home PC to watch movies, look at pictures, and play games.
If I didn't hate Finder (copy/paste lots of files still sucks balls how is this still the case after all this time?), I'd probably buy a iMac but I can't justify buying one and not use OSX on it.
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Macs are generally used in creative work (music / video editing / etc). Atleast for music its possibly the most stable platform to create on and also considered by many a standard.
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[quote]and on top of that you just can't buy os x and install it in on any pc. we've established that already./quote]
Hackintosh and Snow Leopard, quit saying that.
[quote]even my computer got jacked by malware that tried to get me to buy their fake antivirus, and i know my stuff. i would totally recommend a mac for these people that i don't trust with computer usage. and there are a lot of them out there. [/quote]
They aren't going to be any safer with a Mac. Clicking fap-fap-fap sites with a Mac will get you into trouble just as easily.
[quote]i'm totally down with linux even though i'm not a poweruser, but it requires a lot of understanding and time which some people just really don't wanna invest in. i'd make my kids use it because they should have all the time in the world.[/quote]
Right... so this just goes with my argument. Mac, while it doesn't suck, it too expensive to be worth it. At all. And people get Mac because they are ignorant, for better or worse.
[quote]Different computers are good for different things, the time spent building/maintaining a computer is not free unless there's nothing you'd rather be doing or you're a worthless human being (which if you can build and maintain a computer, you're probably not).[/quote]
i agree, I think there's a certain point where, due to the value people may have in their time ie rich, they can't be bothered to make an educated decision, or will consciously make a Mac decision because they can't be bothered in setting up a PC and performance doesn't matter.
As to someone who said less than 5% of Macs sold are the desktop, I guess that proves the point that Mac Desktop is stupid, and it's not really the point of Mac. I guess everyone agrees, TODAY, there is no reason to buy a Mac over a custom built PC, or prebuilt for that matter.
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dammit guys I have a mac. I'm browsing through this thread on my mac. I should be punished =/
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5930 Posts
No, there is a reason to buy a Mac. If you only sperge about computer specs of course the Mac is worse value because Apple's business model is to sell you a rock solid computer that is essentially a complete package.
You can buy a dirt cheap computer one quarter of the price however: - Its not in the extremely small form factor - Its no where near as quiet because the Mac pretty much uses the aluminum body as a huge heatsink - The screen is nowhere near as nice - Aftermarket support is nowhere near as good - It syncs well with other Apple products - Comes with nice keyboard and awful mouse
Apple is smashing the shit out of all tech companies because they understand that to retain customers you have to position, support and launch your products well. Guys like Samsung fail to update their smartphones and force people to root their devices, guys like HP launch their very solid WebOS devices in the worst possible manner, and Motorola doesn't understand that people don't give a shit about how many gflops their device can do and just want a product that is smooth in operation.
Apple could very well decrease the price of their products if they're forced to as the profit margins on all of their products are more than 10 times of their competitors but that's not their target market. Don't bring up market share, Apple doesn't care about market share it cares about profits and it is earning so much more money than its competition that its getting funny.
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Wait for 350 I can make a computer that will run sc2 on ultra at 60 fps... Do tell!
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On February 16 2011 11:11 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +and on top of that you just can't buy os x and install it in on any pc. we've established that already. Hackintosh and Snow Leopard, quit saying that.
Hackintosh and Snow Leopard does not guarantee you to have a fully functional OS X system unless you go thru the hassle of making sure your hardware is compatible and you got the drivers. And then, you are unable to have Apple support to back you.
So no, its not that simple.
Show nested quote +even my computer got jacked by malware that tried to get me to buy their fake antivirus, and i know my stuff. i would totally recommend a mac for these people that i don't trust with computer usage. and there are a lot of them out there.
They aren't going to be any safer with a Mac. Clicking fap-fap-fap sites with a Mac will get you into trouble just as easily. Show nested quote +i'm totally down with linux even though i'm not a poweruser, but it requires a lot of understanding and time which some people just really don't wanna invest in. i'd make my kids use it because they should have all the time in the world. Right... so this just goes with my argument. Mac, while it doesn't suck, it too expensive to be worth it. At all. And people get Mac because they are ignorant, for better or worse. Show nested quote +Different computers are good for different things, the time spent building/maintaining a computer is not free unless there's nothing you'd rather be doing or you're a worthless human being (which if you can build and maintain a computer, you're probably not). i agree, I think there's a certain point where, due to the value people may have in their time ie rich, they can't be bothered to make an educated decision, or will consciously make a Mac decision because they can't be bothered in setting up a PC and performance doesn't matter. As to someone who said less than 5% of Macs sold are the desktop, I guess that proves the point that Mac Desktop is stupid, and it's not really the point of Mac. I guess everyone agrees, TODAY, there is no reason to buy a Mac over a custom built PC, or prebuilt for that matter.
"They can't be bothered to make an educated decision". That certainly explains why a lot of very computer literate people use Macs. I am talking about people who make a living out of programming and software development. I'd say they know a couple things about computers that you don't.
No, people do not get Mac because they are ignorant. People get Mac because being productive or entertained by a computer shouldn't be harder than pressing the on button, and maintaining your computer shouldn't be harder than setting an appointment at the Genius Bar.
I know my Windows and bash shell and SQL and Java and other things like that. I just prefer to leave them at the workplace. And if I had a choice, I'd do my development work on a Mac.
If your primary criteria is a bunch of numbers in a spec sheet, yes, nothing beats making your own computer. But if specs are a second-rate criteria compared to user experience and customer service, having the latest generation processor doesn't has that much value.
Wake up, a spec sheet has no reason to be the only criteria to determine what is a better computer buy. You created the thread asking why someone would get a Mac rather than building a computer like you did, and you got your answer. Please don't proceed by making fun of other people's intelligence because of your lack of understanding.
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I bought a Macbook Pro because I'm an idiot and I listened to my friends' advice. Everything is hassle free until I have to boot into windows to do...well, pretty much anything.
I still like the interfacing on Mac more than Windows but it isn't worth the extra $1000. Somehow, despite this, I don't really regret paying the extra money. I guess I just think this laptop will reliably last me longer than a Dell or an hp would, which could make it worth it, but if it lasts to the point where I want to buy a computer that has the most up to date technology anyway then it seems like it'd be all for nothing.
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apple successfully markets their products as self-contained products that you can buy and they will work and you don't need to worry about it, and if they break, some other computer nerds will fix it for you.
if you build a PC you actually have to understand something and put in some work into building/selecting the parts and take more responsibility for the functioning of your product.
from this perspective installing the mac OS on a computer you built doesn't make any sense - the apple "product" is marketed as a single thing, computer + OS + service.
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I'm a student in Multimedia and Life without Mac to me make no sense. When doing Video Editing in a professional environment the mac is essential to work efficiently. Pro Tools, Avid Media Composer for exemples are much more fluid on a Mac Pro then a Pc. I don't know why technically(probably the Unix Os) but it's the way it is. For Audio Pc can do it very good but mainly video is the place for mac.
As for anything else, like home things and gaming the Pc is the way to go (as of me!)
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In short, the same reason people buy BOSE headphones, razer gaming mice, or anything that is overpriced and overrated. Marketing. Very very good marketing. Most people don't care or have time to research competitors or the product they are buying. Most people buy on impulse. Most people just want to be wowed by buzzwords and they're sold. Mac does this very well.
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Windows Vista was so shitty that I bought a Mac. Now that 7 is out and actually decent I'll switch back on my next purchase.
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On February 16 2011 05:11 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +find me another 11'' laptop with a 1gb graphics card please. alienware was my only option. - Laptops are not what we are talking about, and much different. - The first person to actually claim Mac is better, bought an Alienware. User was temp banned for this post.
uh dude... i never said mac is better. maybe you got lost in the whole thing
i have a macbook pro that my JOB bought me, i never said for a second that i liked it or found it better than a PC.
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On February 16 2011 11:11 Belial88 wrote: Hackintosh and Snow Leopard, quit saying that. uh hackintosh = no support from apple, and reliability is a selling point of OSX.
They aren't going to be any safer with a Mac. Clicking fap-fap-fap sites with a Mac will get you into trouble just as easily. as mac is unix based and requires permissions and passwords for modification that the user has to grant, it won't be as easy.
Right... so this just goes with my argument. Mac, while it doesn't suck, it too expensive to be worth it. At all. And people get Mac because they are ignorant, for better or worse. no because you just fucking ignored the fact that the expense of Mac Pros are for a completely different user, and that you're not making the right comparisons. your $350 system + peripherals and display devices and stuff vs an entry-level iMac is in fact rather comparable.
I guess everyone agrees, TODAY, there is no reason to buy a Mac over a custom built PC, or prebuilt for that matter.
i guess everyone agrees because you like to put words in everyone's mouth when they're disagreeing, and because you like to ignore facts that completely contradict your opinion
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