I don't get it. I'm not trying to be provocative, and not a fanboy by any means. I just don't get it.
First, this is where I'm coming from: I knew very little about computers 3 weeks ago, but had to get a new computer (I'll just say I suddenly didn't have one). I had no money at all save for $425 leftover from coming back from Europe/Africa. I found out that it was possible to build a computer with this money.
My $350 computer can play SC2 at everything maxed out, with high resolutions, and 60+ FPS. Clearly, buying a prebuilt PC is completely retarded, I learned. Even asking a PC store to build one for you, or getting the parts and having them build it, is a million times better.
And I'm not arguing that Mac sucks, not at all. If the Mac OS is better, than why not just build a computer, and install Mac on it. I hear the big appeal with Mac, is that it 'looks cool', and from all the articles and studies I read, it's mostly a personality thing, with Mac users wanting to feel 'differen't (cough tools cough). So sure, let's say Mac is cooler looking. They do look cool, I don't disagree with that. But why not just build a computer, and buy a Mac case? You could even dig up an old Mac for cheap, throw away the insides, and put your setup in it.
And it's hard to believe that Mac is way cooler looking than some insane high-end case, not to mention it's totally possible to simply build a case (since technically, you don't need a case, you can just plug the CPU, GPU, HDD, RAM, MoBo together and lay on a table). I think a Model Airplane would be way cooler looking of a case than a Mac case! Hell a car would be cheaper than a Mac to be used as a case (plus the 50 foot long wires from the garage).
When I checked the Mac website, all the computer (sorry, "Macs") were $2,000+. For the cheapest one! And the processors were all outdated, and the rest of the gear was horrid (3gb ram? lol?). Hell my $350 computer performs better than a $2500 Mac. Wow.
Apparently, from what I hear, Mac handles video real well. No shit sherlock, you have a GPU in there. Buy a computer with a GPU! Duh. And no wonder Mac is so good, it's because you spent $3000 on it. If I spent $3000 on a computer it would be a double hexacore oil immersion, with money left over.
So I'm not here to bang on Macs. I'm not. Where I'm coming from, is that buying a prebuilt PC is dumb when you can make one, better, for cheaper. So, for the same reason, I think buying a Mac is dumb when you can buy a prebuilt PC, which is dumb when you can build a PC. Just build a computer, and install Mac OS on it. Just build a computer, and use Mac cases and parts.
Then I've heard that Mac OS is slow, and takes up more processing/requirements than equal MS. But ignoring that, I stil don't get Macs. So it's easy to navigate? Just get Rainmeter and customize your desktop. And it's hard to believe that Mac is better than the million custom OS's out there for Linux anyways.
TL;DR: Nothing bad about Mac - my argument is that, Buying a Mac is stupid because you could buy a cheaper and faster PC, which is stupid because you could build a cheaper and faster PC. mac look cool - buy a Mac case for your build. mac work cool - install mac os on your pc. You don't like windows interface - use rainmeter or a ton of other customizations. No shit mac is good, its because its $3000 - for $3000 you can build a dream PC that's way better. Just install a GPU in your pc...
I used to think it was for MacOS, but now MacOS is compatible with Intel CPUs, so you can install it on any computer.
Nowadays, people buy MacBooks because it's like 3mm thinner, even if it costs 1500$ more. That's 500$ per millimeter. Definitely not worth unless you don't know how to spend your money, or company pays for it.
On February 15 2011 13:20 endy wrote: I used to think it was for MacOS, but now MacOS is compatible with Intel CPUs, so you can install it on any computer.
Nowadays, people buy MacBooks because it's like 3mm thinner, even if it costs 1500$ more. That's 500$ per millimeter. Definitely not worth unless you don't know how to spend your money, or company pays for it.
Yo, sony makes NICE notebooks with SSD's in them now, but for a marginally cheaper price, it's windows, and it's the same thin..ness.. o_O
I agree that Mac's are hell overpriced, for what? I once saw an article talking about the Mac computer parts, and even their parts are overpriced but function the same and not exactly better as the usual cheap PC stuff. I guess Mac's are for bragging to people that you could afford them.
I'd never buy a mac personally because of all the reasons you outlined above. It's just a giant waste of money when you can buy the exact same specs and build it yourself for like $1000 less. It's for those who know shitall about computers or you're loaded and you don't mind blowing 1k
Successful marketing by Apple. Branding and lifestyle associated with the Mac is so bullshit, but people really believe it.
My school's media lab is fully stocked with Macs, they could have asked the hundreds of super tech informed students at my school what to get and we could have delivered way more power at the same price of equivalent power at half the price.
Hahaha, my favourite in-lecture game is to guess the Mac to non-mac ratio. Usually about 70-90% of all laptops are Macs lol... ahh University students- so educated. :D
But yea, what you said is right. But you really can't honestly expect a "regular" user to use Linux, can you?
Look, do you own a car? Have you ever owned one? If you haven't, what do you do when your car breaks down? Do you fix it yourself or go to a repair shop? Do you find familiarity with automobiles a valuable skill?
I have a brand new 17in MacBook Pro that I'm forced to use every day at work (damn you iPhone apps...) and while it is definitely not worth the $2400 that we paid for it, it's still a nice machine. The screen is sexy, to say the least .
People who are into PC's and have the know-how to build their own will almost never buy a Mac (unless they absolutely have to - see iPhone apps) because they are overpriced. But, not everyone has that ability and it's very convenient when your machine breaks because you can just take it into a local Mac store and talk to a person who knows english (not "indianish"). People will pay a premium for that type of service.
I hate Macs for all they are but some there are some legit use cases where it is worth it to pay the "Mac Tax." Those use cases usually don't apply to people who have computer skills and can build their own machine for a fraction of the cost.
P.S. I'm aware that there still are some local PC shops around but it's becoming near impossible to find a good one.
This is a bad place to expect objective responses. Most people here excessively prefer functionality over.. well everything else. Ask the same question in different places and the responses will differ. Ask in a programming forum -- with the intent of having a knowledgeable sample -- and you might be surprised at the number of people who like macs. I myself am (trying to be) a programmer and prefer design over power. I prefer a comfortable machine that just feels good. And since pretty much every processor made in the 90's allows you to program in any computer language, then processing power is not a major concern.
For me building a desktop is just a waste of money, as I just can't simply use it for working purposes.
I can tell you that in this forum, people are very hostile vs Apple. Which kinda pisses me off but I'll just leave it at that.
Also, don't buy into all that "being hipster" shit. I rarely take my macbook out and few people know I own one. I couldn't care less if they knew.
Edit: I think functionality was a bad choice for a word. Processing power is nearer to my point.
walk in any coffee shop and it's 100% lol. As for the reason.. it's pretty much a trendy thing to have. Like why would anyone spend $80 for a shirt when you can get one that works just as well for $30... because it's trendy. And you know, maybe this is a bad thing in your eyes but stuff like that actually does attract compliments or whatever. I'm not saying that macbooks make you friends, but it sure does have a better chance than a pc. Here's a test: type macbooks are awesome as your status on facebook and see how many likes you get. Test doesn't apply if the majority of your friends are computer geeks.
Linux can be better than Mac in too many ways, but it requires some knowledge in order to do it, because distros that have default installations (like Ubuntu, lol) are often bloated. Now, when you know how to customize an installation, you can get your PC to prompt for your username and password in 8-13 seconds without X, and in 20-30 seconds with a desktop environment. You can also have the entire installation to be loaded into your ram, causing programs to run at light speed. You can also have an unbelievable beautiful desktop environment, and work in multiple workspaces for convenience. You can also play SCII xD.
But yeah, the price to pay for knowing how to is your life. Not all of it though lol
Being in the Graphic Design // Animation Industry I would say for work flow.. Mac's seem to hold their own. Granted I am an avid user of a PC.. But literally the only reason I would get a Mac is because of the way stuff organizes and some nit picky things in the Creative Suite.
This question is about as valid as asking why anyone would buy any car priced over $30,000. There are a lot of simple things (usually called features by the companies) we might not really need, but many are willing to pay a premium for. Doesn't make sense, but that's just how it goes.
This premium will have many takers, and it can be for anything, from the community behind it (i.e. $20,000 Harley Davidson vs $10,000 foreign company equivalent), comfort, and yes, even color (Ford was surpassed by GM because of its very stubborn slogan, "You can have it in any color, as long as it's black").
On February 15 2011 13:42 Furios wrote:Test doesn't apply if the majority of your friends are computer geeks.
Wrong. You're looking at the wrong kind of geeks. Many I've seen will never choose Microsoft over Apple or even Microsoft over anything else.
And I can provide the exact opposite comment from my "computer geek friends" (computer engineering / software engineering grads). Some people value certain things more than others.
Here's the way I see it. Microsoft is not just a sesspool of viruses and Macs are not just for hipsters. They both serve a purpose and they serve those purposes well.
IMO - Microsoft vs. Mac is just a stupid flamewar that came about because geeks need a cause to rally behind (also see: vi/emacs, intel/amd, ati/nvidia, etc.). Let people use their own crap in piece.
On February 15 2011 13:17 Catch]22 wrote: Not good with computers (and got no reason not to spend silly amounts of money on a computer?) Get a Mac
Even still, that's pretty ridiculous. You could pay someone $250 who is knows their stuff half-decently well and give them $1000 to build you a computer that performs better. After it's built for you you are good to go. Donate the rest to charity if you really have no reason not to throw away money.
Honestly, I don't have too much problem with the fact that Macs cost a lot more than a regular PC. If you look at boutique computer brands such as Voodoo or Falcon Northwest, they charge a premium price too for pretty much the same hardware with more refined cases and cable management.
The problem that I have with Macs is their use of proprietary hardware. Lost the charger cable for your iPhone? You can't just go and get another miniUSB cable like I can for my Samsung Galaxy S, you have to go and buy a new APPLE-branded cable. Want new ram for your pre-built mac? Make sure you get a special kind or else they wouldn't work with your MB. Want to put music on your iPod? Sorry, have to use iTunes.
It's all this stupid stuff that makes Apple, which is one of the most successful American companies, seem really un-American to me.
On February 15 2011 14:02 denzelz wrote: Want new ram for your pre-built mac? Make sure you get a special kind or else they wouldn't work with your MB.
RAM compatibility is an issue no matter what kind of personal computer we're talking about. There's a reason manufacturers produce RAM compatibility charts.
On February 15 2011 14:02 denzelz wrote: Want to put music on your iPod? Sorry, have to use iTunes.
Unless you use one of millions of other programs that do this.
On February 15 2011 14:02 denzelz wrote: It's all this stupid stuff that makes Apple, which is one of the most successful American companies, seem really un-American to me.
For an author who seems somewhat knowledgeable about computers, it's hilarious how he refuses to make the distinction between PC's and OS's.
it's actually amusing how inaccurate he is for the most part. 90% of those "issues" don't even apply to windows 7, and very few of them even applied to XP, except on once in a blue moon. Interesting.
Personally, I've used Mac laptops for the last five years, while building my own Linux desktops. I like Macs because they are great computing appliances, ie. I can open my Macbook up and browse the web or type something without every worrying about whether or not it is going to work. Plus I can open a terminal and ssh into a server without feeling like I'm doing something goofy. I'm well aware that I'm getting less bang for my buck than I could, but why do I care, I use my computer a lot and it's worth it to me to get something I like to use.
In summary, mac owners are kind of like luxury car owners.
The practical reason is simple: I don't like babysitting my computer. And from personal experience, the system that serves my needs better is a Mac.
Of course, your mileage may vary. Big emphasis here. Maybe you have had a great experience with your PCs, but I haven't.
After getting a computer science degree and getting a job maintaining computers systems, there is a point I get tired of tinkering with computers. I just want something that wakes up instantly and lets me do what I want without hassle. Keeping track of the latest hardware and getting the most juice of my CPU cycles is not really my cup of tea—I am more interested that the computer and operating system can take care of its resources reasonably well.
I have a 2007 model MacBook Pro. At 2500 USD, it is the most expensive computer I ever got in my life. And yeah, it did hurt my pocket (good thing the base price is lower nowadays). But you know? I do not regret my purchase one little bit.
This is the most hassle-less computer I have ever had. No software compatibility problems. No problems with a Windows fix pack conflicting with my computer's BIOS. No installations degrading so fast that I have to make a clean install every year. No need to go thru system settings to have decent font rendering. No annoying popups and modal dialogs. No need to get a separate OS license to not use the crapware-ridden OEM disc. No need to replace parts myself. Excellent customer service, including in-site replacement of three batteries and one logic boards for free.
Maybe I have been lucky, but my experience has been pretty good. As I said, I don't feel I need to babysit my computer. Its just there, doing its job.
For some people, yeah, its about looks. Or feeling cool. Whatever. But for many others, its about doing your stuff comfortably, where the OS gets out of the way, or just simplifies things. There is many intelligent people out there using macs: computer scientists, researchers, designers, developers, programmers, artists. You name it.
For me, its the little details. My mac really feels like an integrated system, rather than some hardware with an OS put on top of it. I didn't get the feeling with OS/2 (and I was huge fan of it), nor Windows. BeOS was the closest, but its dead. I am more interested in software and user interface design, so rather than having the most juice out of my hardware, I am more impressed at how Expose deals with the problem of window management, how Time Machine is a very clever solution to backups-made-simple, or how MacOS manages to have a relatively consistent user experience and reasonable set of default settings that I don't have to change anything to feel comfortable using my computer.
Windows 7 fixed a lot of things. But for me, its too little too late.
Let me put it bluntly. Macs aren't for everyone. Of course if all you do is fap all day and play games then spending 2500$ on a mac is stupid!!
I have always built my own computers and would never buy a desktop mac, but i bought a black macbook roughly 3 years ago for production/dj use. i paid around 2000$ total, thats including buying my own 250gb HDD and 4gb of ram from my own supplier and installing myself. Believe me i was a pc fanboy before, and even installed xp on a partition so i didn't have to learn how to work osx into my existing workflow. Although using osx when performing live (for stability purposes) i never really "used" my computer in osx, i would always quickly boot back into xp. until i noticed my laptop running quite a bit hotter generally running in windows, until it became a slight concern because i didn't want to do any damage to my hardware. Pretty soon i was like, fuck it, let me just try using osx. My computer runs so much cooler so i figured i would try to force myself to use it on a more daily basis. after a while i really started to enjoy all the features osx had like spotlight searches and ctrl+mousewheel to zoom anywhere, anytime. soon i found myself enjoying everyday browsing on the mac more than me pc. On top of that i have never ever crashed, ever! Sometimes don't reboot my laptop for months(i think my highest uptime was 78 days? i saw that and laughed quickly rebooting just for kicks). i guarantee if i bought some HP notebook or whatever it would crash all the time and have burnt out/been obsolete by now. I feel like now i have my pc for games, and my mac for work, almost viewing my pc as a console of sorts, and i like it that way tbh.
|TL;DR| If you = Fap Fap Fap + Games Macs are not for you and we forgive you for not understanding.
On February 15 2011 14:02 denzelz wrote: Want new ram for your pre-built mac? Make sure you get a special kind or else they wouldn't work with your MB.
RAM compatibility is an issue no matter what kind of personal computer we're talking about. There's a reason manufacturers produce RAM compatibility charts.
Go on Newegg. Look at the RAM page. I know quite well that different MBs require different RAM, and the amount varies. However, Mac require a special type of RAM on top of ones that should be compatible with the MB. Here, I will even give you an example.
On February 15 2011 13:13 Belial88 wrote: My $350 computer can play SC2 at everything maxed out, with high resolutions, and 60+ FPS.
No it can't. I would never by a mac either, but entire post is invalid because of this. My graphics card alone cost 450$ and it cant run ultra/extreme without dropping below 30 fps. now try and fit in ram/psu/soundcard/network card/motherboard/harddrive/case as well as cd/dvd drives.
I don't really get Macs either. But lots of people seems to love them.I'd rather get something cheaper that performs the same. And I already know how to use windows... so no need to use a mac. And the whole one button thing is such a deal breaker omggg. Whenever I have to use a friends Macbook I feel so idiotic trying to even copy paste.
On February 15 2011 14:02 denzelz wrote: Honestly, I don't have too much problem with the fact that Macs cost a lot more than a regular PC. If you look at boutique computer brands such as Voodoo or Falcon Northwest, they charge a premium price too for pretty much the same hardware with more refined cases and cable management.
The problem that I have with Macs is their use of proprietary hardware. Lost the charger cable for your iPhone? You can't just go and get another miniUSB cable like I can for my Samsung Galaxy S, you have to go and buy a new APPLE-branded cable. Want new ram for your pre-built mac? Make sure you get a special kind or else they wouldn't work with your MB. Want to put music on your iPod? Sorry, have to use iTunes.
It's all this stupid stuff that makes Apple, which is one of the most successful American companies, seem really un-American to me.
Memory is pretty standard. You don't need to get apple-branded RAM for your mac.
Plenty companies have made their own proprietary protocols. IBM had the microchannel bus. Microsoft had ActiveX and their non-standard Java VM. Or what about having their own DRM scheme only to ditch it with their own Zune? Plenty people cursed Apple for ditching the floppy drive and standarizing on USB.
Macs are overpriced but you don't hear about macs breaking down as often as a shitty acer or hp laptop you just bought from futuershop.
Its true that building a computer is always better for price and performance, but then you run the risk of buying incompatible parts if you are a newbie / not finding the greatest deals and not actually saving that much / other catastrophes. Great if you know what your doing, but could be a lot of trouble if you don't.
I don't like or hate the mac OS but I would never buy a mac itself because of how over priced they are. I would consider installing it on a customized PC like you said if I had reason to run mac OS.
On February 15 2011 14:25 TapeDeckChris wrote: Let me put it bluntly. Macs aren't for everyone. Of course if all you do is fap all day and play games then spending 2500$ on a mac is stupid!!
I have always built my own computers and would never buy a desktop mac, but i bought a black macbook roughly 3 years ago for production/dj use. i paid around 2000$ total, thats including buying my own 250gb HDD and 4gb of ram from my own supplier and installing myself. Believe me i was a pc fanboy before, and even installed xp on a partition so i didn't have to learn how to work osx into my existing workflow. Although using osx when performing live (for stability purposes) i never really "used" my computer in osx, i would always quickly boot back into xp. until i noticed my laptop running quite a bit hotter generally running in windows, until it became a slight concern because i didn't want to do any damage to my hardware. Pretty soon i was like, fuck it, let me just try using osx. My computer runs so much cooler so i figured i would try to force myself to use it on a more daily basis. after a while i really started to enjoy all the features osx had like spotlight searches and ctrl+mousewheel to zoom anywhere, anytime. soon i found myself enjoying everyday browsing on the mac more than me pc. On top of that i have never ever crashed, ever! Sometimes don't reboot my laptop for months(i think my highest uptime was 78 days? i saw that and laughed quickly rebooting just for kicks). i guarantee if i bought some HP notebook or whatever it would crash all the time and have burnt out/been obsolete by now. I feel like now i have my pc for games, and my mac for work, almost viewing my pc as a console of sorts, and i like it that way tbh.
|TL;DR| If you = like spending less money for better performance Macs are not for you and we forgive you for not understanding.
Fix'd that last part.
I would like everyone who has a PC to hold control and use their mouse wheel to zoom. You talk about HP laptops like they are top of the line laptops. Most of them (in my experience) run hot as hell, are full of bloatware and are just slow.
And I'll bring this along from my previous post: Click image to enlarge.
On February 15 2011 14:02 denzelz wrote: Want new ram for your pre-built mac? Make sure you get a special kind or else they wouldn't work with your MB.
RAM compatibility is an issue no matter what kind of personal computer we're talking about. There's a reason manufacturers produce RAM compatibility charts.
Go on Newegg. Look at the RAM page. I know quite well that different MBs require different RAM, and the amount varies. However, Mac require a special type of RAM on top of ones that should be compatible with the MB. Here, I will even give you an example.
This just adds another layer of confusion for consumers that is designed to discourage Mac users from tinkering with their machine.
Then complain to the memory manufacturer.
Not all memory fits all kind of motherboards. Thats no rocket science. What these guys are doing is rebranding their standard memory so that Mac users have an easier time picking the right memory SIMM for their computer. They realized there is more demand from people who own a Mac so they are serving their potential customers.
Macs are great for people that aren't in to computers because they are non-fuss. You get them set up and your software installed and you're good to go for 5 or 6 years. Seriously the vast majority of problems that do occur in OSX are fixed by running a permissions repair. Windows on the other had is a huge pain in the ass for someone that isn't in to computers to deal with. It gets fucked up really easily to the point that a person that isn't in to computers can't fix it themselves.
My company hires a ton of freelance creative and production people. So as to not over burden the IT dept with people's random personal computer issues and to ensure consistent workflow we have a policy that if a freelancer's computer isn't up to spec the project they are on has to buy a new computer for them to use. If it is a PC the computer has to be less than 2 years old; if it is a Mac it has to be less than 5. That's an example how much less of a hassle and more reliable Macs tend to be.
On February 15 2011 14:25 TapeDeckChris wrote: Let me put it bluntly. Macs aren't for everyone. Of course if all you do is fap all day and play games then spending 2500$ on a mac is stupid!!
I have always built my own computers and would never buy a desktop mac, but i bought a black macbook roughly 3 years ago for production/dj use. i paid around 2000$ total, thats including buying my own 250gb HDD and 4gb of ram from my own supplier and installing myself. Believe me i was a pc fanboy before, and even installed xp on a partition so i didn't have to learn how to work osx into my existing workflow. Although using osx when performing live (for stability purposes) i never really "used" my computer in osx, i would always quickly boot back into xp. until i noticed my laptop running quite a bit hotter generally running in windows, until it became a slight concern because i didn't want to do any damage to my hardware. Pretty soon i was like, fuck it, let me just try using osx. My computer runs so much cooler so i figured i would try to force myself to use it on a more daily basis. after a while i really started to enjoy all the features osx had like spotlight searches and ctrl+mousewheel to zoom anywhere, anytime. soon i found myself enjoying everyday browsing on the mac more than me pc. On top of that i have never ever crashed, ever! Sometimes don't reboot my laptop for months(i think my highest uptime was 78 days? i saw that and laughed quickly rebooting just for kicks). i guarantee if i bought some HP notebook or whatever it would crash all the time and have burnt out/been obsolete by now. I feel like now i have my pc for games, and my mac for work, almost viewing my pc as a console of sorts, and i like it that way tbh.
|TL;DR| If you = like spending less money for better performance Macs are not for you and we forgive you for not understanding.
Fix'd that last part.
I would like everyone who has a PC to hold control and use their mouse wheel to zoom. You talk about HP laptops like they are top of the line laptops. Most of them (in my experience) run hot as hell, are full of bloatware and are just slow.
HP was just a random example. Good job honing in on the most insignificant part of my whole post. One of my best friends is in network services and computer repair. I can attest though his experience that i made the right choice, and yes he is a pc user. Personally before windows 7 came out, i would never even think to have any windows operating system on any laptop from any company knowing my priority was stability.
Not good with computers (and got no reason not to spend silly amounts of money on a computer?) Get a Mac
Then just build one. You don't need to know about computers to build it, just buy what people tell you to buy. Or, just get a PC. Why do you need to know about computers to use, or build, a PC?
Can you post the specs on that computer? i need a new motherboard and processor on the CHEAP.
Athlon II X3 3.2Ghz Rana Biostar ATX a770e3 MoBo 4GB Ram WD 160 GB 7200 RPM 8mb Sata HDD NZXT Gamma Case MSI GTX 460 768mb Twin Frozr Cooling
Easily over 60+ FPS on everything at Extreme.
they are dumb-ed down and easy to use, and arent plagued with viruses, also they make you hipster, which is a plus
Look, I'm not here to rag about Mac or PC being better. What I'm saying is that even if Mac is better, why not just build a PC and install a Mac OS on it (cough pirate cough), or buy a Mac case so your setup has that 'cool mac look'. And how exactly is it dumbed down? You mean to tell me Windows isn't 'dumbed down' or linux isn't 'dumbed down'. And not to mention, there are millions of customization and ui's out there to change your setup to whatever you want. You can make a windows PC, not look like a windows pc. there are tons of programs out there even that are specifically made to run on windows, but look like mac programs - ie media players that look and work just like iTunes.
But yea, what you said is right. But you really can't honestly expect a "regular" user to use Linux, can you?
But that's because people don't know about Linux. The average college student, if you asked them what linux is, they wouldn't know. Nevermind noncollege people, or the average population. I didn't even know what linux was, was a year ago. There aren't exactly TV spots for Linux. I don't think the same can be said of Windows though.
Look, do you own a car? Have you ever owned one? If you haven't, what do you do when your car breaks down? Do you fix it yourself or go to a repair shop? Do you find familiarity with automobiles a valuable skill?
Well this is actually a very specific thing. First, I couldn't fix my car even if I knew how, because I don't have the tools (for the most part, I do know about cars). Secondly, repair shops are pretty cheap these days, there's not a big reason to do your own oil anymore (although you still should buy the oil at wal-mart, then bring it to the shop instead of using their oil) because, if you bring in your own oil, it's just about $20 for an oil change. i do have the tools to fix and build my own computer though.
If you said "people buy macs for the same reason they dont fix their own cars - they are fucking idiots!" I'd understand and I think I would get why people get Macs. But at the moment, i don't know if it is that. Starting to seem like that from the replies though...
while it is definitely not worth the $2400 that we paid for it, it's still a nice machine. The screen is sexy, to say the least .
Any computer at $2400 is going to be nice. I'm sure Macs are great computers. What I don't understand, is why people buy them when they can get a $1200 PC. And my $300 custom built is better than a $2500 Mac (http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro). I mean I would get it if someone custom built a PC, and bought a Phenom instead of a similar priced i3, or a intel Semperon instead of a Athlon II, but a $300 custom built PC and a $3,000 Mac is HUGE difference in price. Don't people do a bit of research when they spend more then $100, much less $3000? It would take 20 seconds to realize custom PC is the way to go...
Then again there are a million fucking retarded articles talking about the merits of Mac vs PC, when the argument is really Price, Value, and the inclusion of custom building. Which changes the whole equation.
I hate Macs for all they are but some there are some legit use cases where it is worth it to pay the "Mac Tax." Those use cases usually don't apply to people who have computer skills and can build their own machine for a fraction of the cost.
So my PC is $300 right, and a mac is $3,000, for the same value. You're saying that someone can't take a 10 hour day to save learn about how to build comptuers, for $2,700? Who makes more than $2700 a day? Is that who buys Macs? My school was all white kids...
It seems to me that the reason people get Macs, is ignorance - that these people don't even realize you can build a PC. Which is fine, and possible, i didn't really know you could do it feasibly 2 weeks ago either.
This is a bad place to expect objective responses. Most people here excessively prefer functionality over.. well everything else. Ask the same question in different places and the responses will differ. Ask in a programming forum -- with the intent of having a knowledgeable sample -- and you might be surprised at the number of people who like macs. I myself am (trying to be) a programmer and prefer design over power. I prefer a comfortable machine that just feels good. And since pretty much every processor made in the 90's allows you to program in any computer language, then processing power is not a major concern.
For me building a desktop is just a waste of money, as I just can't simply use it for working purposes.
I can tell you that in this forum, people are very hostile vs Apple. Which kinda pisses me off but I'll just leave it at that.
... right. I would think TL then, is the most objective place to ask. I mean you're buying a computer, not a fucking picture frame. Function is the complete point of a PC. It's not even like a car where other people can see it - and if you did want to, you can customize a case. Buy PC parts, and them customize a case with the extra $2700 you have.
As to your point about every processor since the 90s being just so awesome, then why not just buy a $10 computer from the 90's than a $3000 mac? Hell I'm sure you could get an old PC for free. And I hardly doubt most Mac users are first-time computer buyers (wait... maybe they are).
And how is building a desktop a waste of money? Unless you are Bill Gates, who can't afford to pick up a $100 bill because your time is worth so much, building a desktop is your only choice. You haven't really given any objective reasons why Mac is better than saying "well every computer is awesome these days so you might as well blow $3000 for something that looks cool and performs worse, because after all performance doesn't matter". Again, my point is not that Macs or PCs or Windows or Linux is better or worse - Mac may very well be the best. What I don't understand is why can't people buy a Mac case if you like them for aesthetics, or just install Mac OS if you like their OS.
Hell, you could even build a PC, and then buy a Mac GPU because of... whatever reason.
walk in any coffee shop and it's 100% lol. As for the reason.. it's pretty much a trendy thing to have. Like why would anyone spend $80 for a shirt when you can get one that works just as well for $30... because it's trendy. And you know, maybe this is a bad thing in your eyes but stuff like that actually does attract compliments or whatever. I'm not saying that macbooks make you friends, but it sure does have a better chance than a pc. Here's a test: type macbooks are awesome as your status on facebook and see how many likes you get. Test doesn't apply if the majority of your friends are computer geeks
Okay... so why don't people just build PC's with Mac cases? I guess I see the problem with laptops, since you can't really build laptops, but this discussion is mostly about desktops. I totally get the style thing though, and I can completely understand why people buy Macs - they are rich assholes and the style points is worth it. I definately understand advertising (economics major).
But yeah, the price to pay for knowing how to is your life. Not all of it though lol
So people would choose to be ignorant? Look, I understand certain things are just hard to learn. But I at least take the time to figure out if it's that hard to learn or not. In the case of a PC, 5 weeks ago I went from not knowing what a PSU is to unlocking my locked 4th core (and I know exactly what I did) and lowering my HTT link speed. The internet, we literally live in that Matrix thing where you just plug in and learn what you need to know. Certain things are a pain, like Ubuntu, but things like building a PC, aren't. What the problem is, is not knowing you can do things - like not knowing it's possible to build a PC.
Something that I don't think has been mentioned is that macs are sometimes necessary for arts courses. I think there may be a small market for geeks who can install apple operating systems onto PC's for these arts students.
In addition, macs do get some things right. The macbook pro for example, has a vent at the back. This is in sharp contrast to other brands who put the fan at the bottom of the computer, preventing air circulation. I believe HP is well known for displaying this flaw.
I believe a better title to this thread is "Why would anyone ever get a Mac to play games?"
I'd assume the people who aren't just buying Macs for the looks and "easy to use"-ness are getting it because it's a Unix based OS with commercial support. I'm not qualified to speak anymore on that topic, but that's my understanding of it.
On February 15 2011 14:25 VManOfMana wrote: I can tell you why I have a Mac.
The practical reason is simple: I don't like babysitting my computer. And from personal experience, the system that serves my needs better is a Mac.
Of course, your mileage may vary. Big emphasis here. Maybe you have had a great experience with your PCs, but I haven't.
After getting a computer science degree and getting a job maintaining computers systems, there is a point I get tired of tinkering with computers. I just want something that wakes up instantly and lets me do what I want without hassle. Keeping track of the latest hardware and getting the most juice of my CPU cycles is not really my cup of tea—I am more interested that the computer and operating system can take care of its resources reasonably well.
I have a 2007 model MacBook Pro. At 2500 USD, it is the most expensive computer I ever got in my life. And yeah, it did hurt my pocket (good thing the base price is lower nowadays). But you know? I do not regret my purchase one little bit.
This is the most hassle-less computer I have ever had. No software compatibility problems. No problems with a Windows fix pack conflicting with my computer's BIOS. No installations degrading so fast that I have to make a clean install every year. No need to go thru system settings to have decent font rendering. No annoying popups and modal dialogs. No need to get a separate OS license to not use the crapware-ridden OEM disc. No need to replace parts myself. Excellent customer service, including in-site replacement of three batteries and one logic boards for free.
Maybe I have been lucky, but my experience has been pretty good. As I said, I don't feel I need to babysit my computer. Its just there, doing its job.
For some people, yeah, its about looks. Or feeling cool. Whatever. But for many others, its about doing your stuff comfortably, where the OS gets out of the way, or just simplifies things. There is many intelligent people out there using macs: computer scientists, researchers, designers, developers, programmers, artists. You name it.
For me, its the little details. My mac really feels like an integrated system, rather than some hardware with an OS put on top of it. I didn't get the feeling with OS/2 (and I was huge fan of it), nor Windows. BeOS was the closest, but its dead. I am more interested in software and user interface design, so rather than having the most juice out of my hardware, I am more impressed at how Expose deals with the problem of window management, how Time Machine is a very clever solution to backups-made-simple, or how MacOS manages to have a relatively consistent user experience and reasonable set of default settings that I don't have to change anything to feel comfortable using my computer.
Windows 7 fixed a lot of things. But for me, its too little too late.
Such a quality post.
I have a macbook at home and a windows laptop at work. My macbook at home runs windows 90% of the time anyway because my wife uses it. However, when I switch over to the Apple OS it is always hassle free. I mostly just use it for video work, because imovie is superior to anything I have used windows side.
Uh.. Belilal88 function is not the complete point of a computer. It's like any other machine. You would probably not prefer a computer the size of a refrigerator that had the side effect of keeping your house warmer than every other in your neighborhood even if it was cheaper than your actual one. I did say i preferred mac because of its design and how comparatively comfortable it is and I'm not even talking about the OS, I use FreeBSD probably more often than OS X.
Your point about buying a $10 computer assumes that I agree with you on "functionality is the whole point" while I obviously don't. I do have old computers and it's perfectly plausible to program in them. But I'm paying $3000 (actually not nearly that much) for everything else that isn't a processor, besides, processors are rather cheap compared to everything else inside a computer.
And I said desktops are a waste of money for me because I absolutely need a laptop.
On February 15 2011 13:42 Furios wrote:Test doesn't apply if the majority of your friends are computer geeks.
Wrong. You're looking at the wrong kind of geeks. Many I've seen will never choose Microsoft over Apple or even Microsoft over anything else.
i'm sorry but how does microsoft relate? the test is for people to like a status saying macbooks are awesome. Find me 2 computer geeks that will like that statement and I'll give you a cookie.
have few friends at university majoring in photography and love macs for the easy to use but still professional-looking programs that are available for them
obviously not for gaming, but i also know alot of teachers who prefer macs to be able to create presentations etc
On February 15 2011 13:13 Belial88 wrote: My $350 computer can play SC2 at everything maxed out, with high resolutions, and 60+ FPS.
No it can't. I would never by a mac either, but entire post is invalid because of this. My graphics card alone cost 450$ and it cant run ultra/extreme without dropping below 30 fps. now try and fit in ram/psu/soundcard/network card/motherboard/harddrive/case as well as cd/dvd drives.
No.
Woah, who ripped you off when you bought your GPU? You can easily get a GPU that runs extreme settings on 1920x1200 resolution for half that price at 50+ fps...
This question is about as valid as asking why anyone would buy any car priced over $30,000. There are a lot of simple things (usually called features by the companies) we might not really need, but many are willing to pay a premium for. Doesn't make sense, but that's just how it goes.
This premium will have many takers, and it can be for anything, from the community behind it (i.e. $20,000 Harley Davidson vs $10,000 foreign company equivalent), comfort, and yes, even color (Ford was surpassed by GM because of its very stubborn slogan, "You can have it in any color, as long as it's black").
You wouldn't happen to be that poster that didn't have any clue how to build a computer and posted a bunch of threads in Tech Support, are you?
And there are reasons. A $30K car has a stronger engine than a $10k car. Is it worth 3x the price? Maybe, maybe not. Can the $10k car get you to places just as fast? Yes. However, the PC vs Mac comparison is more like paying $10k for a awesome sports car, or $30k for a slower, weaker car. It just doesn't make any sense at all. As for aesthetics, the analogy would be more like you could either buy a $30k car, or you can buy a $10k car, and buy the $30k car's 'case' and put it on the cheap car.
As for Harley Davidson, there are reasons for it's price. First off, yes, you are right, mostly it is branding. But there *ARE* differences, mostly in design. The issue with Mac vs PC, is that you can install Mac on a PC. That's like saying, oh, (continuing with your horrible analogies) "Harley is awesome because you can see all the internal parts easily... what? No, that's a damn lie that you can see everything on a Kawasaki! You take that back or I'll kick your ass! And give you $3000 to piss away to!"
Here's the way I see it. Microsoft is not just a sesspool of viruses and Macs are not just for hipsters. They both serve a purpose and they serve those purposes well.
IMO - Microsoft vs. Mac is just a stupid flamewar that came about because geeks need a cause to rally behind (also see: vi/emacs, intel/amd, ati/nvidia, etc.). Let people use their own crap in piece.
Great. Someone else sticking up for Mac yet can't give a reason behind it except koombaya. What are the purposes of a Mac? If you even read a single post, not to mention the Original Post I made, you'd notice that A) You can use a Mac case on a PC build and B) You can install Mac OS on a PC, so therefore C) why the hell would you ever buy Mac unless your completely ignorant? I'm not saying PC is better than Mac at all. In fact, for arguments sake, let's say Mac is better (and I'm not sure it isnt!). Why wouldn't you just build a $300 PC, install Mac OS on it, and buy a Mac case off Ebay and put your setup inside it?
For an author who seems somewhat knowledgeable about computers, it's hilarious how he refuses to make the distinction between PC's and OS's.
omg Liquid'Tyler responded to my blog how cool! Love your games! Anyways, what is the difference? Can't you install Mac OS on a PC? Can't you just customize the hell outta your PC anyways with programs like Rainmeter and the million knock-off programs meant to look exactly like Mac programs?
I like Macs because they are great computing appliances, ie. I can open my Macbook up and browse the web or type something without every worrying about whether or not it is going to work. Plus I can open a terminal and ssh into a server without feeling like I'm doing something goofy. I'm well aware that I'm getting less bang for my buck than I could, but why do I care, I use my computer a lot and it's worth it to me to get something I like to use.
It's too bad I can't go online on my PC. Damn. I should've spent $2700 more dollars so I could post on Team Liqui... wait a second....
Ahem, couldn't resist. I see what you're saying, but why didn't you just buy a PC, or built a PC, and installed Mac on it? There's no reason I couldn't install Mac onto my computer right now. And not to mention, there are programs out there to customize your computer. My Windows 7 PC can be customized so it looks just like a Mac, or whatever I want it to look and act like.
Windows 7 fixed a lot of things. But for me, its too little too late.
okay, i get it now. Everyone who bought Mac, bought it when Vista was out! To be more serious, actually, I know for a fact that Mac only got popular when Vista came out, and lost a huge share of market control because of the 'shitty quality' (not my words) of Vista.
after a while i really started to enjoy all the features osx had like spotlight searches and ctrl+mousewheel to zoom anywhere, anytime. soon i found myself enjoying everyday browsing on the mac more than me pc. On top of that i have never ever crashed, ever!
But if you're so rich and/or lazy that you'd rather pay $2700 so you.. don't have to clean your PC, and don't want to download a small program, then I guess I understand why people don't buy Macs.
No it can't. I would never by a mac either, but entire post is invalid because of this. My graphics card alone cost 450$ and it cant run ultra/extreme without dropping below 30 fps. now try and fit in ram/psu/soundcard/network card/motherboard/harddrive/case as well as cd/dvd drives.
That's because you don't know how to take care of a computer. Also, I built my computer this week, not 2 years ago. And third, I'd be happy to take FRAPS or benchmarks or screenshots for you. Also, not to mention you can simply look up "athlon x3 benchmark starcraft 2" or "gtx 460 starcraft 2 benchmark" and realize they all say these are both overkill for Starcraft 2 even at the highest of settings.
You also seem like a moron, and this is my blog so I can say that.
I have a macbook at home and a windows laptop at work. My macbook at home runs windows 90% of the time anyway because my wife uses it. However, when I switch over to the Apple OS it is always hassle free. I mostly just use it for video work, because imovie is superior to anything I have used windows side.
I never said Mac sucked. So my question to you, good sir, is why don't people just build their own computers / buy prebuilt (ew) and just install Mac OS on them?
It is becoming more and more clear to me, that the answer is either A)Free because of job/present/school/etc or B)too ignorant to realize how much more expensive Mac is, that you can install Mac onto a PC, and C) they don't realize how easy it is to build a computer.
And isn't the whole reason your Mac is so 'great' at movie programs is because it comes with a GPU, while many prebuilt PC's sold don't have a GPU in them? The solution being, gasp, buy a $50 gpu! And can't you simply find a similar program? I know Windows media player and music player are complete shit, but I also know there are programs much better than itunes and their respective media programs as well. And that I could install those media programs on my computer if I wanted to. So let me be clear: This isn't an argument about whether Mac vs MS. It's about why buy a Mac, when you can install the MacOS on any computer, and you can build any computer you want and use a Mac case?
On February 15 2011 14:53 Belial88 wrote: Look, I'm not here to rag about Mac or PC being better. What I'm saying is that even if Mac is better, why not just build a PC and install a Mac OS on it (cough pirate cough), or buy a Mac case so your setup has that 'cool mac look'.
It's not as easy to put OS X on a PC as you make it out to be, and lots of people dislike piracy (not judging you at all, just saying). Sure, it was easy for you to learn how to build a computer, but a high powered lawyer or surgeon doesn't have time to learn how to use the command line or a kalyway torrent to get OS X going, assuming the hardware will even work with the hacked EFI. If you make enough money, it's easy to justify paying extra to having something working perfectly out of the box, and Apple does that better than any PC maker by a longshot. And how exactly are you going to get that "cool mac look" if you need a laptop, which is by far what people are buying these days? Personally, I could care less what it says about me when people see the shiny Mac logo. I'm not trying to impress anyone, and actually I'm hoping people will leave me alone so I can get some work done
Fwiw I have Windows 7 Ultimate and Mac OS X on my Macbook Pro, and I do everything (except Starcraft 2) OS X side. Build quality, reliability and ease of use are worth it for me. I prefer the software made for macs to their equivalents on PCs, so I personally can get a lot more shit done Mac side. Between work/school/SC2 I spend more time looking at my computer screen than at anything else by a longshot, so aesthetics, ergonomics and build quality are worth it for me.
Yeah, I could probably get the same specs for a PC laptop for about 1k less, but it wouldn't run the software I prefer, it wouldn't feel near as good, and it most likely wouldn't be as reliable. These things are worth 1k spread over 3 or more years or more, but if you don't agree then by all means you are free to feel superior to me. Yes, I could easily get by on a PC. I can build my own, I know it's not hard, and TL will help me anyway But I have a decent (not great or even very good) income and my life is literally my computer, so I'm willing to spend extra on the experience I have with it.
It's not so simple as just installing the OS in any pc. First off, it's not sanctioned by Apple, so you can't download any updates, or even buy a PC compatible copy of OS X. Second, there are issues as the OS is in a way tied to the hardware so it won't run smoothly or even efficiently.
Also, Belial88, ctrl+mouse wheel on the OS X works as a loupe, magnifying the entire screen. It doesn't just increase the size of the typeface or the size of the icons.
This is a bad place to expect objective responses. Most people here excessively prefer functionality over.. well everything else. Ask the same question in different places and the responses will differ. Ask in a programming forum -- with the intent of having a knowledgeable sample -- and you might be surprised at the number of people who like macs. I myself am (trying to be) a programmer and prefer design over power. I prefer a comfortable machine that just feels good. And since pretty much every processor made in the 90's allows you to program in any computer language, then processing power is not a major concern.
For me building a desktop is just a waste of money, as I just can't simply use it for working purposes.
I can tell you that in this forum, people are very hostile vs Apple. Which kinda pisses me off but I'll just leave it at that.
... right. I would think TL then, is the most objective place to ask. I mean you're buying a computer, not a fucking picture frame. Function is the complete point of a PC. It's not even like a car where other people can see it - and if you did want to, you can customize a case. Buy PC parts, and them customize a case with the extra $2700 you have.
As to your point about every processor since the 90s being just so awesome, then why not just buy a $10 computer from the 90's than a $3000 mac? Hell I'm sure you could get an old PC for free. And I hardly doubt most Mac users are first-time computer buyers (wait... maybe they are).
And how is building a desktop a waste of money? Unless you are Bill Gates, who can't afford to pick up a $100 bill because your time is worth so much, building a desktop is your only choice. You haven't really given any objective reasons why Mac is better than saying "well every computer is awesome these days so you might as well blow $3000 for something that looks cool and performs worse, because after all performance doesn't matter". Again, my point is not that Macs or PCs or Windows or Linux is better or worse - Mac may very well be the best. What I don't understand is why can't people buy a Mac case if you like them for aesthetics, or just install Mac OS if you like their OS.
Hell, you could even build a PC, and then buy a Mac GPU because of... whatever reason.
This is the part that better exemplifies why you don't get it. Your mindset is that a computer is a bunch of parts put together and an OS installed on top. The Mac is the antithesis of your mindset, where you treat the whole machine as an integrated solution.
Function is more than just a feature check list, but also how the functionality is implemented. A PC is not a picture frame, but why not? A picture frame is something you get out of its box and is ready to do its job. You don't need to care for the specifications, or how it was put together, as long as it does its job as expected, comfortably, no hassle, and why not, look good in the process. Cars are the same. With a good car all you do is turn a key and the car works, and with some good care and minimal maintenance it can last you a long time. Magic. That is the "magic" that Apple can pull off, and why non-hardware oriented people are attracted to their computers (including myself).
If you can digest the idea that MacOS X and Apple's hardware are an integrated solution, and add value to each other, it will be a lot easier to understand. Something like "I prefer a comfortable machine that just feels good" is not something that you can easily put together on a budget. Is it possible? Yes. But having to deal with the hassle to get everything together or wait for someone else to do it is already against the idea of "comfortable".
On February 15 2011 15:22 Belial88 wrote: So let me be clear: This isn't an argument about whether Mac vs MS. It's about why buy a Mac, when you can install the MacOS on any computer, and you can build any computer you want and use a Mac case?
I don't understand why you think that the average person can build their own computer. Even if they for some reason want a desktop instead of a laptop, desktops are still a hassle to put together. Yes, the parts fit together nicely, but I'm sure most people don't want to worry about misinstalling or frying their $100 components, or the hassle of clean-installing drivers and an OS. Also, your supposition that you can install OSX on any PC is flawed; Apple has virtually no hardware support beyond what it puts into its own Mac computer builds, and you need to mess with the hackintosh version to run OSX if somehow your hardware is magically capable.
didnt see page 2 but i get the general gist of it.
Apple "Mac" computers are decent in their build quality, run well, nice features in the OS, etc etc etc.
HOWEVER. they do overcharge quite a bit for their computers. some argue that you're paying for the design or the OS, which is absolute shit, your paying because they're greedy corporate idiots. ( /neckbeard)
like what has apparently already been said (didnt fully read). they LOVE playing the monopoly game. "you must get an iPod so you can fit in and be cool" "to use that, you can ONLY EVER use itunes" (theres ways around this ofcourse, etc). "to connect it to itunes, YOU MUST ONLY use OUR iPod cables" "YOU cannot TOUCH the insides of your computer, EVEN IF you know what you're doing" - its not quality control, its not "better and faster" to use their cables, its monopoly.
monopoly + their advertising campaign = brutally effective. and in my opinion, wrong.
they even held a conference once (i think it was for the iphone 4) which they streamed on the net; ONLY PEOPLE WITH IPHONES OR MACS could watch it.
thats the main issue i have with apple, they're the technological totalitarism government that will take away people who speak against the fuhrer Jobs.
even if they werent like that. i still wouldnt buy from/support them. they charge too much and bend the truth too much. and i know my way around computers, so i can build a pc thats 2x better for 1/2 the price of their macs.
also: about linux. linux is a great KERNEL, im willing to bet the people who have "tried linux" have pretty much only tried ubuntu or only one linux distro. the great thing about linux is that EVERYTHING can be swapped out, replaced, changed, edited, and tweaked to how you want it. i could get linux and make it EXACTLY like OSX. most people dont know enough about it, so they stick to the defaults of ubuntu / slackware / mint / etc. so then it just ends up like OSX and windows, people dont realise that instead of going "OSX has blah, i should install that instead" they could just install blah (or similar) in linux"
that being said, its obvious im a raging neckbeard. take of it what you will
[EDIT: lol ranting a bit off topic, also, this thread is hilarious, ignorance is bliss. ]
Technology is an ugly business at the top, Apple isn't the first, the only one or the one that is trying the most to be a "monopoly". The reason I mentioned Microsoft in that way earlier is because it has such a shady history, it owes a big part of its success to finding other people's great ideas and destroying them. You can make out an evil rep out of most companies at the top. Google is a giant oddball in this business.
I have a macbook at home and a windows laptop at work. My macbook at home runs windows 90% of the time anyway because my wife uses it. However, when I switch over to the Apple OS it is always hassle free. I mostly just use it for video work, because imovie is superior to anything I have used windows side.
I never said Mac sucked. So my question to you, good sir, is why don't people just build their own computers / buy prebuilt (ew) and just install Mac OS on them?
It is becoming more and more clear to me, that the answer is either A)Free because of job/present/school/etc or B)too ignorant to realize how much more expensive Mac is, that you can install Mac onto a PC, and C) they don't realize how easy it is to build a computer.
And isn't the whole reason your Mac is so 'great' at movie programs is because it comes with a GPU, while many prebuilt PC's sold don't have a GPU in them? The solution being, gasp, buy a $50 gpu! And can't you simply find a similar program? I know Windows media player and music player are complete shit, but I also know there are programs much better than itunes and their respective media programs as well. And that I could install those media programs on my computer if I wanted to. So let me be clear: This isn't an argument about whether Mac vs MS. It's about why buy a Mac, when you can install the MacOS on any computer, and you can build any computer you want and use a Mac case?
Have you even considered what you're saying? First of all, the most common mac desktop is the imac which is an all-in-one, so it makes no sense to build it yourself. The mac pros are the "desktops" that are arguably overpriced, but there is absolutely no way a $350 setup can compete with a mac pro. $1000 is being generous.
About installing the Mac OS on a PC, it's the same reason why some people pay for their movies and music while other people pirate it.
I'll cover the Macbook Pro while I'm at it. I think it is overpriced, but there is no other laptop that can do everything it does for cheaper. All cheaper laptops will either be better or equal to it in a certain area and worse in another. When people buy a mac, it's the whole package that they want.
Most people saying they get macs because PCs are such a hassle...My laptop (vista) has slowed down a bit but i never had problem with it crashing or having to update windows (switched off autoupdate) viruses never bothered me because i have an antivirus. My PC (windows xp) needed to be formatted once because I was an idiot and had no antivirus installed, and i had to replace the harddisk once, and was still able to save all the data on my old one. The extent of my problems and hassle with windows was 'i was too much of a retard to install an antivirus program' Havent tried using mac, though all my friends who have one say its pretty comfortable and easy...but i dont understand why someone would need it easier in exchange for less functionality and higher price...
sorry about double post, i was abit slow. god dammit im even too slow to double post.
On February 15 2011 15:33 topspinserve wrote: I don't understand why you think that the average person can build their own computer. Even if they for some reason want a desktop instead of a laptop, desktops are still a hassle to put together. Yes, the parts fit together nicely, but I'm sure most people don't want to worry about misinstalling or frying their $100 components, or the hassle of clean-installing drivers and an OS. ...
Pay someone $50 who knows what they're doing to do it for you. or google it, it is HONESTLY not that hard or risky. just dont wear socks / do it on carpet, and read the manuals.
On February 15 2011 15:33 topspinserve wrote: ... Apple has virtually no hardware support beyond what it puts into its own Mac computer builds, and you need to mess with the hackintosh version to run OSX if somehow your hardware is magically capable.
well i guess that justifies an extra $2700 for an OSX that does nothing special. and dont give me "no viruses" "no crashes" "just werks" etc. i havent had a virus on windows for the past 4-5 years, all you need is common sense. and crashes /etc, less of a problem in windows7, even less of a problem in linux :3
it you want an OS like OSX without paying $2700 for it, get Mint or something.
It's not as easy to put OS X on a PC as you make it out to be, and lots of people dislike piracy (not judging you at all, just saying). Sure, it was easy for you to learn how to build a computer, but a high powered lawyer or surgeon doesn't have time to learn how to use the command line or a kalyway torrent to get OS X going, assuming the hardware will even work with the hacked EFI. If you make enough money, it's easy to justify paying extra to having something working perfectly out of the box, and Apple does that better than any PC maker by a longshot. And how exactly are you going to get that "cool mac look" if you need a laptop, which is by far what people are buying these days? Personally, I could care less what it says about me when people see the shiny Mac logo. I'm not trying to impress anyone, and actually I'm hoping people will leave me alone so I can get some work done
Yea, I already came to the conclusion that: a) Laptops are a completely different animal since you can't build them. If it's worth the price for looks, go for Mac. b)If you make so much money you can't be bothered with learning, buy a PC. Buying a Mac means you're so rich you can't be bothered to learn that PC is much better for the same price, or cheaper for same performance.
And if you don't like piracy, can't you just buy a Mac OS to put on?
The Mac is the antithesis of your mindset, where you treat the whole machine as an integrated solution.
I'm aware of this.
If you can digest the idea that MacOS X and Apple's hardware are an integrated solution, and add value to each other, it will be a lot easier to understand. Something like "I prefer a comfortable machine that just feels good" is not something that you can easily put together on a budget. Is it possible? Yes. But having to deal with the hassle to get everything together or wait for someone else to do it is already against the idea of "comfortable".
The Price premium is just ridiculous though. You realize you're talking about a $2700 difference for the same performance with a custom built, and about $2300 from a prebuilt right? I mean with houses, or cars, that's not that big a deal. But with a PC, where you are talking about almost 10x the price, that's a pretty big deal.
I don't understand why you think that the average person can build their own computer. Even if they for some reason want a desktop instead of a laptop, desktops are still a hassle to put together. Yes, the parts fit together nicely, but I'm sure most people don't want to worry about misinstalling or frying their $100 components, or the hassle of clean-installing drivers and an OS
I'm the average person - I've taken zero computer classes, I didn't even know what a PSU was a month ago, I didn't know what the difference between RAM memory and HDD memory was. And it took about a day to figure out how to put together a computer. It took me a week to figure out what to buy, but that was only because my budget was $425 - as in if I spent $425, it meant I would have zero dollars for my cigarette addiction and for food and rent for my girlfriend and myself for however long until I got back to work. I also said you could simply have someone build the PC for you, like a PC shop, and save a ton of money while paying about $100 for assembly, or you could even go prebuilt.
Also, your supposition that you can install OSX on any PC is flawed; Apple has virtually no hardware support beyond what it puts into its own Mac computer builds, and you need to mess with the hackintosh version to run OSX if somehow your hardware is magically capable.
Right... but I'd rather be paid $2300 and deal with annoying hackintosh problems than not. And I'm sure most people would agree. I think the problem is that most people don't realize this. And the idea that PC's are just miserable, is ridiculous. I've never had problems with PCs, no freezes, no lockups, no driver issues, ever in my life. And I knew zip about computers.
And while many people may not like dealing with these issues, I would think most people would just suck it up and keep the extra THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN DOLLARS!
Hm... deal with annoying driver issues and have to take my PC to Best Buy Geek Squad? Or GO TO SPANISH BEACHES AND HIT THAT SHIT UP YEAA! Jeez, tough choice!
Apple "Mac" computers are decent in their build quality, run well, nice features in the OS, etc etc etc.
I get that Mac is awesome, the problem is that any $3000 computer is awesome.
about linux. linux is a great KERNEL, im willing to bet the people who have "tried linux" have pretty much only tried ubuntu or only one linux distro. the great thing about linux is that EVERYTHING can be swapped out, replaced, changed, edited, and tweaked to how you want it. i could get linux and make it EXACTLY like OSX. most people dont know enough about it, so they stick to the defaults of ubuntu / slackware / mint / etc. so then it just ends up like OSX and windows, people dont realise that instead of going "OSX has blah, i should install that instead" they could just install blah (or similar) in linux"
Just a question, what should someone with Linux run? My girlfriend uses Ubuntu and I've used it. I didn't care for it, and Windows has been fine by me. I understand the idea of knowledge to improve things, but it seems like too much to learn Ubuntu (think Rainmeter). I wouldn't mind learning it if I knew it was that much better.
On February 15 2011 15:43 Fir3fly wrote: didnt see page 2 but i get the general gist of it.
Apple "Mac" computers are decent in their build quality, run well, nice features in the OS, etc etc etc.
HOWEVER. they do overcharge quite a bit for their computers. some argue that you're paying for the design or the OS, which is absolute shit, your paying because they're greedy corporate idiots. ( /neckbeard)
like what has apparently already been said (didnt fully read). they LOVE playing the monopoly game. "you must get an iPod so you can fit in and be cool" "to use that, you can ONLY EVER use itunes" (theres ways around this ofcourse, etc). "to connect it to itunes, YOU MUST ONLY use OUR iPod cables" "YOU cannot TOUCH the insides of your computer, EVEN IF you know what you're doing" - its not quality control, its not "better and faster" to use their cables, its monopoly.
monopoly + their advertising campaign = brutally effective. and in my opinion, wrong.
they even held a conference once (i think it was for the iphone 4) which they streamed on the net; ONLY PEOPLE WITH IPHONES OR MACS could watch it.
thats the main issue i have with apple, they're the technological totalitarism government that will take away people who speak against the fuhrer Jobs.
even if they werent like that. i still wouldnt buy from/support them. they charge too much and bend the truth too much. and i know my way around computers, so i can build a pc thats 2x better for 1/2 the price of their macs.
You don't really remember the days of Microsoft totalitarianism, do you? Once upon a time you basically had no option than to get a Windows computer unless you build your own. MacOS was primitive back then (pre-Jobs return) so it was not really an option. Microsoft literally held the hardware companies by the balls. Afterall, they did get convicted for illegally using monopoly power.
Really, the current computer/OS situation is a blessing. Say what you want about Apple's closed garden. At least they are not interested in telling the other manufacturers what to do with their systems. Nowadays you actually have a choice in part thanks to Apple, not despite them.
also: about linux. linux is a great KERNEL, im willing to bet the people who have "tried linux" have pretty much only tried ubuntu or only one linux distro. the great thing about linux is that EVERYTHING can be swapped out, replaced, changed, edited, and tweaked to how you want it. i could get linux and make it EXACTLY like OSX. most people dont know enough about it, so they stick to the defaults of ubuntu / slackware / mint / etc. so then it just ends up like OSX and windows, people dont realise that instead of going "OSX has blah, i should install that instead" they could just install blah (or similar) in linux"
that being said, its obvious im a raging neckbeard. take of it what you will
The great thing about Linux is also what kills it adoption. Why should I swap, replace, change, edit and tweak to have a useable system? How come Apple managed to be the first to have a good user interface for a UNIX-like operating system? (Mac OSX is based on BSD)
didnt see page 2 but i get the general gist of it.
Apple "Mac" computers are decent in their build quality, run well, nice features in the OS, etc etc etc.
HOWEVER. they do overcharge quite a bit for their computers. some argue that you're paying for the design or the OS, which is absolute shit, your paying because they're greedy corporate idiots. ( /neckbeard)
like what has apparently already been said (didnt fully read). they LOVE playing the monopoly game. "you must get an iPod so you can fit in and be cool" "to use that, you can ONLY EVER use itunes" (theres ways around this ofcourse, etc). "to connect it to itunes, YOU MUST ONLY use OUR iPod cables" "YOU cannot TOUCH the insides of your computer, EVEN IF you know what you're doing" - its not quality control, its not "better and faster" to use their cables, its monopoly.
monopoly + their advertising campaign = brutally effective. and in my opinion, wrong.
they even held a conference once (i think it was for the iphone 4) which they streamed on the net; ONLY PEOPLE WITH IPHONES OR MACS could watch it.
thats the main issue i have with apple, they're the technological totalitarism government that will take away people who speak against the fuhrer Jobs.
even if they werent like that. i still wouldnt buy from/support them. they charge too much and bend the truth too much. and i know my way around computers, so i can build a pc thats 2x better for 1/2 the price of their macs.
also: about linux. linux is a great KERNEL, im willing to bet the people who have "tried linux" have pretty much only tried ubuntu or only one linux distro. the great thing about linux is that EVERYTHING can be swapped out, replaced, changed, edited, and tweaked to how you want it. i could get linux and make it EXACTLY like OSX. most people dont know enough about it, so they stick to the defaults of ubuntu / slackware / mint / etc. so then it just ends up like OSX and windows, people dont realise that instead of going "OSX has blah, i should install that instead" they could just install blah (or similar) in linux"
that being said, its obvious im a raging neckbeard. take of it what you will
[EDIT: lol ranting a bit off topic, also, this thread is hilarious, ignorance is bliss. ]
Lol, neckbeard is a new one to me, I had to look it up.
From Urban Dictionary:
neckbeard
Talkative, self-important nerdy men (usually age 30 and up) who, through an inability to properly decode social cues, mistake others' strained tolerance of their blather for evidence of their own charm.
Hahaha, we've all been the neckbeard at some point, and threads like this seem to attract a lot of them.
MacOS X and Apple's hardware are an integrated solution,
my Gentoo Kernel is fully trimmed down and tailored to my computer specs and design, they were built for each other by me, its like a love story.
OSX is not "intergrated" into the hardware, they just cut out 70% of the drivers and supporting software out of their kernels and then just make sure they dont have that hardware in their computers. its nothing special.
if windows is fine for you, use windows, if you want to change and learn linux, switch over. (you can always dual boot). as for "what they should run" its really down to preference and how much you're willing to learn. i started out with Arch Linux because it has AWESOME documentation and help for everything, and its practically diving in heads first as you have to set EVERYTHING up yourself (as in, when you install it, you get a terminal and thats it). but if you dont want to dive in that far, you could just try out all the different distros to see what you like as defaults and work on that. i liked Linux Mint cause it looks pretty nice as default. if you want to change anything or etc, just google it.. if theres ANYTHING by default that you dont like, change it.
On February 15 2011 16:03 VManOfMana wrote: The great thing about Linux is also what kills it adoption. Why should I swap, replace, change, edit and tweak to have a useable system? How come Apple managed to be the first to have a good user interface for a UNIX-like operating system? (Mac OSX is based on BSD)
You don't need to do any of those things. It's not like it's hard for the mere purpose of being hard (although a lot of people seem to like that). It allows you to do those things to ultimately get yourself the OS that fits your very precise needs but any flavor of Unix is already a working system. It's kind of like the reason Unix resisted graphical interfaces for so many years, they were seen as an impediment, a burden, doing things by keyboard was much faster (still is for many things). The power of Unix is that it allows you to do whatever you want, in a very efficient way. So yeah it's mostly intended for developers. But..
Ubuntu is the kind of Linux that is easy for newbies, it's made for that purpose, you don't need to know anything more than the usual Windows or Mac user. Sometimes it's even more practical, as an example, take the synaptic package manager -- you don't even need to surf the web to find an application that not only fits your needs, but is also compatible with your OS and passes a number of different criteria, such as popularity, good reviews, etc. Ubuntu is also already bundled with a lot of useful applications, probably more than what your regular highschool kid even needs.
Athlon II X3 3.2Ghz Rana Biostar ATX a770e3 MoBo 4GB Ram WD 160 GB 7200 RPM 8mb Sata HDD NZXT Gamma Case MSI GTX 460 768mb Twin Frozr Cooling
Cheapest Mac - iMac 21.5" - $1200 Core i3 3.06 GhZ 4GB RAM 500GB HDD HD 4670 VGA
1. I see your build as $400 on Newegg. This is what I'm going with since rebates/sales come and go. 2. Since some of the items in both systems are better/worse, I'm not gonna nitpick... but... 3. I also don't see an operating system ($200), power supply ($50), and dvd drive ($20). 4. An equivalent HDD would also be about another $20. 5. The Mac comes with a screen ($150). 6. The Mac comes with a wireless keyboard/mouse ($70 - I'll be generous even though I believe the Mac keyboard/mouse would actually be around $100 equivalent).
So really, your "equivalent" system is $900. Okay, it's still cheaper than $1200. But that's hardly as gross as the pricing difference you were implying with $2500 vs $350.
$300 difference? Some people would NOT mind spending that extra cash for the "Apple design." Even more, as some people here have even described, there's a certain peace of mind that they are willing to pay for when it comes to their Macs. If you want to hate on Macs, you can similarly hate on Sonys for being overpriced for their "design" and brand name. Except Macs aren't overbloated with crapware like Sonys.
You don't really remember the days of Microsoft totalitarianism, do you? Once upon a time you basically had no option than to get a Windows computer unless you build your own. MacOS was primitive back then (pre-Jobs return) so it was not really an option. Microsoft literally held the hardware companies by the balls. Afterall, they did get convicted for illegally using monopoly power.
i actually dont, i missed out on alot of that cause i was (still am) a youngling and my mum was a computer nazi .
The great thing about Linux is also what kills it adoption. Why should I swap, replace, change, edit and tweak to have a useable system? How come Apple managed to be the first to have a good user interface for a UNIX-like operating system? (Mac OSX is based on BSD)
" Why should I swap" - because its not included by default, bar some laptops started to. "change, edit and tweak to have a useable system?" - uhh.. what? you dont have to touch a thing in linux mint and it "just werks"
"How come Apple managed to be the first to have a good user interface for a UNIX-like operating system?" because back in the day (from what i've read) they were a great company that were interested in exploring new frontiers of technology, and they improved upon the Xerox GUI Systems, technically, Xerox was first, but apple made it better.
On February 15 2011 15:33 topspinserve wrote: I don't understand why you think that the average person can build their own computer. Even if they for some reason want a desktop instead of a laptop, desktops are still a hassle to put together. Yes, the parts fit together nicely, but I'm sure most people don't want to worry about misinstalling or frying their $100 components, or the hassle of clean-installing drivers and an OS. ...
Pay someone $50 who knows what they're doing to do it for you. or google it, it is HONESTLY not that hard or risky. just dont wear socks / do it on carpet, and read the manuals.
I know just as well as you that it's not that hard or risky, but what makes you think that all these people buying a computer want to go through this ridiculous amount of trouble. Assume that they somehow managed to find a person to do "it" for them for $50, where "it" is researching the parts, buying them, then assembling them. The alternative would be to spend a few days finding the right parts, learning how to assemble the parts by themselves, then finally ordering and putting together these parts. Assume that there were no problems such as faulty parts that needed to be RMAed, installation problems such as RAM not being inserted properly, or some BIOS issue that prevents installation of the OS (which takes enough time as it is). At this point, they will have a working computer. Now what? When their computer fails in a few months or they have some other issue they want to ask somebody out, what do they do? Wouldn't it be nice if there were some place that was experienced with talking to people that don't understand computers well and fixes most of your problems for free?
On February 15 2011 15:33 topspinserve wrote: ... Apple has virtually no hardware support beyond what it puts into its own Mac computer builds, and you need to mess with the hackintosh version to run OSX if somehow your hardware is magically capable.
well i guess that justifies an extra $2700 for an OSX that does nothing special. and dont give me "no viruses" "no crashes" "just werks" etc. i havent had a virus on windows for the past 4-5 years, all you need is common sense. and crashes /etc, less of a problem in windows7, even less of a problem in linux :3
it you want an OS like OSX without paying $2700 for it, get Mint or something.
I honestly have no idea where you're getting $2700 from. The prices for iMacs max out at $2000 and MacBook Pros max at $2300 for a really well-speced 17-inch that almost no one buys anyway. Also, I think you're overestimating the understanding of how well the average user understands their computer. You can say you were able to avoid viruses, but remember: you're in the top 5% of computer understanding. You don't just need common sense, you need an understanding of what to do/how to do things on the internet, what suspicious-looking things to avoid, and what to do if you encounter something that is suspicious. Linux would solve this problem, but it's also the worst nightmare of someone just trying to get the things they want to do done. The average computer-user with their iPod and camera, MS-word doc-writing ways trying to get things done in Linux would most likely result in a camera or iPod thrown against a wall.
Also, your supposition that you can install OSX on any PC is flawed; Apple has virtually no hardware support beyond what it puts into its own Mac computer builds, and you need to mess with the hackintosh version to run OSX if somehow your hardware is magically capable.
Right... but I'd rather be paid $2300 and deal with annoying hackintosh problems than not. And I'm sure most people would agree. I think the problem is that most people don't realize this. And the idea that PC's are just miserable, is ridiculous. I've never had problems with PCs, no freezes, no lockups, no driver issues, ever in my life. And I knew zip about computers.
And while many people may not like dealing with these issues, I would think most people would just suck it up and keep the extra THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN DOLLARS!
Hm... deal with annoying driver issues and have to take my PC to Best Buy Geek Squad? Or GO TO SPANISH BEACHES AND HIT THAT SHIT UP YEAA! Jeez, tough choice!
Arguments are better when you exaggerate monetary amounts eight-fold.
Gaming PC: PC custom- $500 Store-bought PC- $800 Mac- N/A
Really cheap laptop: PC: $300 Mac: N/A
Decent Laptop: PC: $700 Mac: $1000
All-in-one: PC: $1000 Mac: $1200:
I'm not sure which category you're arguing about here. The purposes of Macs and PCs really only overlap in the laptop and all-in-one markets; Mac Pros are for video processing/designing and the like. The cost differences in the comparable categories are considerably less, and can be justified with the ease of use and overall build quality of Macs, for many people. Most people do not have the ability and/or willingness to go through the trouble of running their own hackintosh, in addition to the questionable legality of it. As to your argument that PCs usually run fine. Yes, of course they do, but Macs just offer a greater amount of peace of mind that man people aren't afraid to pay a little extra for. Macs don't cater to the low end of the market.
$300 difference? Some people would NOT mind spending that extra cash for the "Apple design."
thisiswhatyoureallybelieve.png apples design policy is : "LETS MAKE EVERYTHING ONE PIECE OF METAL AND IT ALL LOOKS THE SAME". or you could spend $300 on ANYTHING that would be better. for instance this sexy beast. and rice it out HOWEVER YOU LIKE.
Even more, as some people here have even described, there's a certain peace of mind that they are willing to pay for when it comes to their Macs. If you want to hate on Macs, you can similarly hate on Sonys for being overpriced for their "design" and brand name. Except Macs aren't overbloated with crapware like Sonys.
this "peace of mind" is apple's ads and crap going "well we dont get viruses and we never crash. so you never have to worry again." - your not buying it cause you KNOW it does better. your buying it cause you dont know any better.
and ive never seen a sony computer, even if i did, i would format it right away like every prebuilt that i go near. so much crap on them. (i would consider iTunes and Safari bloated and crap)
On February 15 2011 16:03 VManOfMana wrote: The great thing about Linux is also what kills it adoption. Why should I swap, replace, change, edit and tweak to have a useable system? How come Apple managed to be the first to have a good user interface for a UNIX-like operating system? (Mac OSX is based on BSD)
You don't need to do any of those things. It's not like it's hard for the mere purpose of being hard (although a lot of people seem to like that). It allows you to do those things to ultimately get yourself the OS that fits your very precise needs but any flavor of Unix is already a working system. It's kind of like the reason Unix resisted graphical interfaces for so many years, they were seen as an impediment, a burden, doing things by keyboard was much faster (still is for many things). The power of Unix is that it allows you to do whatever you want, in a very efficient way. So yeah it's mostly intended for developers. But..
Ubuntu is the kind of Linux that is easy for newbies, it's made for that purpose, you don't need to know anything more than the usual Windows or Mac user. Sometimes it's even more practical, as an example, take the synaptic package manager -- you don't even need to surf the web to find an application that not only fits your needs, but is also compatible with your OS and passes a number of different criteria, such as popularity, good reviews, etc. Ubuntu is also already bundled with a lot of useful applications, probably more than what your regular highschool kid even needs.
My comment was a reply to the idea that you can tweak a Linux installation until it works just like MacOS X. It might be possible to do, but I find it to be unnecessary considering that I can use MacOS X out of the box.
I can see the value of the Unix (and overall the open source) way of doing things. But just like Macs are not for everyone, the Unix way is not for everyone. Indeed, the Unix way allows you to do things in a very efficient way, but it also has a steeper learning curve. Most people don't have the patience nor time needed to get comfortable with it.
I bought my Macbook used for 300 USD. Unfortunately using it in public for work forces me to contend with the stereotypes of Mac users being blind spendthrifts with no capacity to critically make purchase decisions. I don't terribly mind because everyone who knows me knows I'm comfortable with a variety of platforms, but it's simply a pity to see people being so impetuous with their stalwart assumptions.
I know just as well as you that it's not that hard or risky, but what makes you think that all these people buying a computer want to go through this ridiculous amount of trouble.
"ugh, i want a computer, i cant be fucked getting out of my chair so ill just fork over $3000 for one of those apple computers cause they're
Now what? When their computer fails in a few months or they have some other issue they want to ask somebody out, what do they do? Wouldn't it be nice if there were some place that was experienced with talking to people that don't understand computers well and fixes most of your problems for free[\b]?
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH APPLE... FREE.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHUEHUEHUEHEUHUEUEHUHEUHE are you joking? sure they'll probably do minor troubleshooting, but they are definitely not free. they charged a friend of mine $400(+$120) for data recovery off a harddrive and installing a new one. I COULD OF DONE THAT FOR $20(+$80 for the same drive without an apple sticker)
I honestly have no idea where you're getting $2700 from.
yeah my bad, i seem to just pick out numbers and run with them.
Linux would solve this problem, but it's also the worst nightmare of someone just trying to get the things they want to do done. The average computer-user with their iPod and camera, MS-word doc-writing ways trying to get things done in Linux would most likely result in a camera or iPod thrown against a wall.
[b] and that is the problem . people dont realise how to do shit, (and i dont blame them for not wanting to) so they just spend more money on supporting apple's monopoly.. same with microsoft.
theres GUIS and APPS and wikis and everything for cameras and ipods on linux. but people just dont bother and just use itunes..
"instead of saving as pdf, why dont i just buy ms office 2007"
thats the problem, its the monopoly that they have that just pushes them up higher.
not to sound like a freetard, but EVERYTHING would be SOOOOO much better if everything was opensource.
On February 15 2011 16:37 VManOfMana wrote: I can see the value of the Unix (and overall the open source) way of doing things. But just like Macs are not for everyone, the Unix way is not for everyone. Indeed, the Unix way allows you to do things in a very efficient way, but it also has a steeper learning curve. Most people don't have the patience nor time needed to get comfortable with it.
you mean opensource / free software.
Unix is what OSX and Linux originated from
and it has about the same learning curve as going from Windows -> OSX or vice versa. theres more options, but you dont have to learn them.
You don't really remember the days of Microsoft totalitarianism, do you? Once upon a time you basically had no option than to get a Windows computer unless you build your own. MacOS was primitive back then (pre-Jobs return) so it was not really an option. Microsoft literally held the hardware companies by the balls. Afterall, they did get convicted for illegally using monopoly power.
i actually dont, i missed out on alot of that cause i was (still am) a youngling and my mum was a computer nazi .
Well, there ya go. Really, you don't have much to complain about nowadays
The great thing about Linux is also what kills it adoption. Why should I swap, replace, change, edit and tweak to have a useable system? How come Apple managed to be the first to have a good user interface for a UNIX-like operating system? (Mac OSX is based on BSD)
" Why should I swap" - because its not included by default, bar some laptops started to. "change, edit and tweak to have a useable system?" - uhh.. what? you dont have to touch a thing in linux mint and it "just werks" [/quote]
But you just said I can do all that if to make Linux be like OSX. I don't want Linux Mint, I want OSX, remember?
"How come Apple managed to be the first to have a good user interface for a UNIX-like operating system?" because back in the day (from what i've read) they were a great company that were interested in exploring new frontiers of technology, and they improved upon the Xerox GUI Systems, technically, Xerox was first, but apple made it better.
And they still do. They managed to redefine the interaction model of smartphones, and made the table/slate computer market explode; something that Microsoft was unable to do for the past 10 years.
But you don't have to go that much in the past. The point is that OSX is UNIX-based, and Apple made a good user interface that is functional out of the box for a UNIX based OS before any Linux or Desktop Linux effort. Did you use KDE or Gnome before 2004?
I really hate that 95 percent of notebooks (not an exaggeration) owned by the "elite" students of my prestigious university are macs. It makes me cringe.
Macbook Pros are a very good option for college students when paired with the deal that Apple gives you during the preparing for school months. iTouch + Macbook Pro 13" is a great deal and you get a solid computer + solid backing.
I know just as well as you that it's not that hard or risky, but what makes you think that all these people buying a computer want to go through this ridiculous amount of trouble.
"ugh, i want a computer, i cant be fucked getting out of my chair so ill just fork over $3000 for one of those apple computers cause they're
Now what? When their computer fails in a few months or they have some other issue they want to ask somebody out, what do they do? Wouldn't it be nice if there were some place that was experienced with talking to people that don't understand computers well and fixes most of your problems for free[\b]?
[b]HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH APPLE... FREE.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHUEHUEHUEHEUHUEUEHUHEUHE are you joking? sure they'll probably do minor troubleshooting, but they are definitely not free. they charged a friend of mine $400(+$120) for data recovery off a harddrive and installing a new one. I COULD OF DONE THAT FOR $20(+$80 for the same drive without an apple sticker)
Linux would solve this problem, but it's also the worst nightmare of someone just trying to get the things they want to do done. The average computer-user with their iPod and camera, MS-word doc-writing ways trying to get things done in Linux would most likely result in a camera or iPod thrown against a wall.
and that is the problem . people dont realise how to do shit, (and i dont blame them for not wanting to) so they just spend more money on supporting apple's monopoly.. same with microsoft.
theres GUIS and APPS and wikis and everything for cameras and ipods on linux. but people just dont bother and just use itunes..
"instead of saving as pdf, why dont i just buy ms office 2007"
thats the problem, its the monopoly that they have that just pushes them up higher.
not to sound like a freetard, but EVERYTHING would be SOOOOO much better if everything was opensource.
Who doesn't charge for anything computer-related these days? Your friend would have been charged around that amount to do the same thing on a PC as well. But yes, you pay a premium for other people to do something for you. What's so new about that concept? I paid $100 for someone to install an in-dash dvd player in my car, pretty much taking apart part of my dash, hooking up a couple of wires, and putting it back together. Something I could've done myself, but may have taken several hours easily since I don't have all the right tools. It was worth it.
I remember when I worked for Circuit City, we even charged $40 EACH to convert a VHS to a DVD, and all we did was stick in the VHS and blank DVD into a converter deck and push a button. It's just how technical repair works... since forever.
the table/slate computer market explode; something that Microsoft was unable to do for the past 10 years.
Microsoft mainly focus on their OS, i havent seen them do anything in terms of hardware. and the reason that its "exploding" is because of their advertising / marketing. i would of prefered that they discovered something revolutionary, rather than sell touchscreens better than anyone else.
I don't want Linux Mint, I want OSX, remember?
well then install Macbuntu :3 but in seriousness, what im saying is that if you want OSX, install OSX, if you dont want to set shit up but still want features, install some full featured linux distro.
Apple made a good user interface that is functional out of the box for a UNIX based OS before any Linux or Desktop Linux effort.
that might be the case (i honestly was just like anyone else and thought "windows" and "mac" was it, till about 2-3 years ago)
but the thing is, the Open source community is a slow one, but they are very quick to adapt. and theres plenty of choices.
IMAGINE how awesome it would be, if apple and windows released their GUI source code and everyone collaborated to make all types of awesome desktop Environments.
im using a tiling window manager, so i dont like OSX 's interface, nor windows, so linux is the only option for me to be comfortable.. pity they dont have any alternatives.
I got a Macbook Pro just because I could not find a PC that didn't look terrible. In addition, I am very much into video and image editing so even though it did cost quite a bit of money (more money than a PC laptop would have cost), I am quite happy with my purchase.
I think that from an aesthetic point of view, Apple products generally are designed so much better than other products...
On February 15 2011 17:10 arsenic wrote: I got a Macbook Pro just because I could not find a PC that didn't look terrible. In addition, I am very much into video and image editing so even though it did cost quite a bit of money (more money than a PC laptop would have cost), I am quite happy with my purchase.
I think that from an aesthetic point of view, Apple products generally are designed so much better than other products...
This was very true around 1-2 years ago, but PC makers have really caught up. ASUS, MSI, Acer, Sony, Dell, HP all have very attractive lines of PCs now.
honestly, the mac book pro is a great product in my opinion. abit pricy though, but in terms of durability/etc its alot better than other notebooks. (a bitch to fix, but light, small, and solid)
really, all their products are ok, they just need to follow standards to make shit easier (as in use proper display ports and dont invent a new cable for every product. the more usb the better) and to be cheaper and less greedy lying scoundrels :D
On February 15 2011 17:32 care wrote: disclaimer: I use a 2007 white entry-level Macbook. Those were the times where the USD to MYR currency conversion was expensive as hell.
Reason why I use a mac (to be fair that worked at 2007)
Back then, I wasted 40gb on a shit Acer laptop just to install Ubuntu. Back then, the only way to dual boot was to use GRUB. I failed spectacularly.
My Macbook still performs like it was new. Only I changed my battery once. Cost me USD239 i think.
Install Debian Squeeze with only the base installation, even without a desktop environment, and then read manuals for 2 weeks using the function "man" in console. Then, apt-get install xorg xfce4 xfce-battery-plugin chromium flashplugin-nonfree. That's about 2.4 GB for a desktop environment with a completely functional web browser.
I own a 2009 MBP (paid for by work) and although it looks nice from the outside it's extremely average and way overpriced for what it is.
Remember through all my complaints that this thing cost $3500 and was supposed to be the highest quality top of the range laptop at the time.
- Only 2 usb ports (keyboard, mouse and headset? just kidding) Having them plugged in all at once through a hub just causes power surges and all devices turn off. I blame the mouse and keyboard for the power surges because they have lights and stuff but I mean come on... 2 USB ports?
- No delete key. Yeah I know you can press fn+backspace but come on. I have never used the eject dvd key once, it could have gone there. So annoying when you don't have access to a full sized keyboard.
- No proper microphone port so you have to use a usb headset (adding to the problem of not enough USB ports) or "high-end recording device". Yeah I'll just get my studio boom mic out for Skype won't I Apple?
- Line out/headphone jack has awful static/interference.
- Battery life is terrible if you do anything other than stare at the background.
Massive waste of money but at least it wasn't my money. Makes me cry when I can't work from home on my good PC that cost less than $800 and I have to use that damn laptop. OSX is nice and I like having a unix terminal available but Windows 7 shits all over it in terms of handling multiple applications (not uncommon for me to have 60+ windows open) and being quicker to do almost everything. If I need Linux I just ssh in to one of our servers, Amazon cloud or boot up a VM.
On February 15 2011 19:18 vek wrote: I own a 2009 MBP (paid for by work) and although it looks nice from the outside it's extremely average and way overpriced for what it is.
Remember through all my complaints that this thing cost $3500 and was supposed to be the highest quality top of the range laptop at the time.
- Only 2 usb ports (keyboard, mouse and headset? just kidding) Having them plugged in all at once through a hub just causes power surges and all devices turn off. I blame the mouse and keyboard for the power surges because they have lights and stuff but I mean come on... 2 USB ports?
- No delete key. Yeah I know you can press fn+backspace but come on. I have never used the eject dvd key once, it could have gone there. So annoying when you don't have access to a full sized keyboard.
- No proper microphone port so you have to use a usb headset (adding to the problem of not enough USB ports) or "high-end recording device". Yeah I'll just get my studio boom mic out for Skype won't I Apple?
- Line out/headphone jack has awful static/interference.
- Battery life is terrible if you do anything other than stare at the background.
Massive waste of money but at least it wasn't my money. Makes me cry when I can't work from home on my good PC that cost less than $800 and I have to use that damn laptop. OSX is nice and I like having a unix terminal available but Windows 7 shits all over it in terms of handling multiple applications (not uncommon for me to have 60+ windows open) and being quicker to do almost everything. If I need Linux I just ssh in to one of our servers, Amazon cloud or boot up a VM.
???
my experience is 100% opposite of yours.
i don't game with my mac, but i have a white mac from 2009 - its the cheapest spec available and the best laptop i have owned! and i have owned A LOT of laptops...
7 hours battery life, super sweet charger, PnP with everything on my network (even plays nice with windows 7 shared folders), unibody design that doesn't burn my thighs, specs good enough to run most modern games without being too laggy and, most important of all, complete coverage.
i broke my charger, they gave me a new one without question. my bf got his screen replaced with an even better screen due to ONE dead pixel a year+ after buying the laptop. when they need to "fix" a part they don't just give you the same crappy part too - they actually upgrade it to the newest tech. what other company does that?!?!
apple makes very high quality products that they stand behind and back up with warranties no other company can match. i'm not a fangirl by any means (also prefer windows 7 to osx), i just think those who feel that "PCs are better" for the value factor really don't understand that what you need from a computer is RELIABILITY and every other laptop we have owned in this household has fallen apart in one way or another. my apple hasn't. and i'm really rough with my gadgets!
i had some awesome specs for the laptops i had gotten during my university years, because i wanted to game on the go, but everyone of them fell apart in <1.5 years. i had to buy 2 laptops over the 4 years i spent in uni. i wish i had gotten a mac earlier. it would actually save more to have had one great solid reliable laptop than the 2 "gaming" laptops that i had.
the funny thing is, i would have been able to game on the mac, too.
On February 15 2011 19:18 vek wrote: I own a 2009 MBP (paid for by work) and although it looks nice from the outside it's extremely average and way overpriced for what it is.
Remember through all my complaints that this thing cost $3500 and was supposed to be the highest quality top of the range laptop at the time.
- Only 2 usb ports (keyboard, mouse and headset? just kidding) Having them plugged in all at once through a hub just causes power surges and all devices turn off. I blame the mouse and keyboard for the power surges because they have lights and stuff but I mean come on... 2 USB ports?
- No delete key. Yeah I know you can press fn+backspace but come on. I have never used the eject dvd key once, it could have gone there. So annoying when you don't have access to a full sized keyboard.
- No proper microphone port so you have to use a usb headset (adding to the problem of not enough USB ports) or "high-end recording device". Yeah I'll just get my studio boom mic out for Skype won't I Apple?
- Line out/headphone jack has awful static/interference.
- Battery life is terrible if you do anything other than stare at the background.
Massive waste of money but at least it wasn't my money. Makes me cry when I can't work from home on my good PC that cost less than $800 and I have to use that damn laptop. OSX is nice and I like having a unix terminal available but Windows 7 shits all over it in terms of handling multiple applications (not uncommon for me to have 60+ windows open) and being quicker to do almost everything. If I need Linux I just ssh in to one of our servers, Amazon cloud or boot up a VM.
???
my experience is 100% opposite of yours.
i don't game with my mac, but i have a white mac from 2009 - its the cheapest spec available and the best laptop i have owned! and i have owned A LOT of laptops...
7 hours battery life, super sweet charger, PnP with everything on my network (even plays nice with windows 7 shared folders), unibody design that doesn't burn my thighs, specs good enough to run most modern games without being too laggy and, most important of all, complete coverage.
i broke my charger, they gave me a new one without question. my bf got his screen replaced with an even better screen due to ONE dead pixel a year+ after buying the laptop. when they need to "fix" a part they don't just give you the same crappy part too - they actually upgrade it to the newest tech. what other company does that?!?!
apple makes very high quality products that they stand behind and back up with warranties no other company can match. i'm not a fangirl by any means (also prefer windows 7 to osx), i just think those who feel that "PCs are better" for the value factor really don't understand that what you need from a computer is RELIABILITY and every other laptop we have owned in this household has fallen apart in one way or another. my apple hasn't. and i'm really rough with my gadgets!
i had some awesome specs for the laptops i had gotten during my university years, because i wanted to game on the go, but everyone of them fell apart in <1.5 years. i had to buy 2 laptops over the 4 years i spent in uni. i wish i had gotten a mac earlier. it would actually save more to have had one great solid reliable laptop than the 2 "gaming" laptops that i had.
the funny thing is, i would have been able to game on the mac, too.
Haha this is basically my post (although I have a 2010 MBP). Agree with the guy on the missing DELETE key though, that is driving me nuts.
MacOS X and Apple's hardware are an integrated solution,
my Gentoo Kernel is fully trimmed down and tailored to my computer specs and design, they were built for each other by me, its like a love story.
OSX is not "intergrated" into the hardware, they just cut out 70% of the drivers and supporting software out of their kernels and then just make sure they dont have that hardware in their computers. its nothing special.
I used to be that guy too. Had my completely custom machines build from the ground (stage1) up with Gentoo for years. Then I left university, got a job, and simply didn't have the time anymore to do that. Luckily there was a company that did the same thing for me to prices I could now afford.
I have a Mac because I have access to the *nix command line, and I don't have to deal with any of linux's bs (which to be fair is almost a non-issue now for more mainstream distros, but my laptop is old). I use Linux at work and as a hobby, but I do like to have something I don't have to think about sometimes.
I hate Mac cultists. Hope all their houses burn down.
The reasons used to be some software that could only run on Mac OS, and since that OS used to only run on Mac hardware, some people would naturally get a Mac.
These days with hackinthosh's being so good, so easy to install, and actually pretty legit, since you can use a real store bought disc to install, I don't really see a reason. You can even get the iOS SDK working on a hackintosh, which is really the only important OS restricted piece of software that I can think of (there may be some audio/video stuff too).
I have a MacBookPro for work, and an alienware m11x I bought for me The MBP cost the company $1600, has i3, 500gb hd, 4gb ram, 512mb graphics as of december I got the m11x the MONTH it came out for $1200 (overnight shipping), SU7300 (i7 wasnt around at the time), 4gb ram, 500gb hd, and 1 gb graphics
i have sc2 installed on both, mbp runs it on low but painfully, m11x did ultra for campaign an med for multiplayer (due to customs with 238492798 units)
the MBP stays at work to check email, google voice, and IM m11x goes with me everywhere for portable gaming, and biotech software
# of crashes on m11x - 1 due to not charging it cuz i forgot the cable at home # of crashes on MBP - any flash web site
whats the difference, $400 more for a MBP (with weaker graphics) while the m11x r2 (with i7) is still $200 cheaper wit better graphics, or my old m11x with a weaker processor but still better graphics than the MBP
now...alienware is overpriced as well. so an acer would have higher specs than the m11x, a bigger screen, better graphics card and cost much less than the MBP
what i hate more about mac, is their users
at univ of md, i saw so many goddamn mac users who were so happy with their MBP playing farmville while i played sc2 on high (beta days)
yet they would rub it in your face how 'unique' a mac is its like pooping, the first organism that did it was unique. if everyone has it, then its not unique no one says they are unique cuz they can poop, we all poop, some of us buy it repacked and overpriced as a mac product.
You don't really remember the days of Microsoft totalitarianism, do you? Once upon a time you basically had no option than to get a Windows computer unless you build your own. MacOS was primitive back then (pre-Jobs return) so it was not really an option. Microsoft literally held the hardware companies by the balls. Afterall, they did get convicted for illegally using monopoly power.
It's funny you should say that, because I actually did some of my undergrad Economics research into the Department of Justice vs Microsoft cases, and the DoJ did not have much of a case, it was mostly a witch hunt (mostly). Anyways, what does this have to do with the topic at hand? This isn't a thread of which is better, it's about why buy a Mac when you can do it yourself for cheaper?
Nowadays you actually have a choice in part thanks to Apple, not despite them.
As an Econ major, I must say the more the better (competition), however the only thing I can really get is that Apple is charging people largely because they are uninformed, and the problem with this is that in a perfect capitalist market, the consumer is rational and *knowledgeable*, meaning he will buy a superior product if one exists. The only reason people buy Apple - it seems - is because they are ignorant of being able to get a custom built, by say, a PC store, or how to understand computer hardware specs and realize a similar PC is half the price. In fact, this would mean that Apple hurts the capitalist market, as they are 'stealing away' money from those companies who truly deserve the funding to expand and survive as a business.
The best thing, is Apple to sell it's OS. I'm aware of their hardware/software philosophy, but we already see that it's goofy. Just get better drivers.
Cheapest Mac - iMac 21.5" - $1200 Core i3 3.06 GhZ 4GB RAM 500GB HDD HD 4670 VGA
1. I see your build as $400 on Newegg. This is what I'm going with since rebates/sales come and go. 2. Since some of the items in both systems are better/worse, I'm not gonna nitpick... but... 3. I also don't see an operating system ($200), power supply ($50), and dvd drive ($20). 4. An equivalent HDD would also be about another $20. 5. The Mac comes with a screen ($150). 6. The Mac comes with a wireless keyboard/mouse ($70 - I'll be generous even though I believe the Mac keyboard/mouse would actually be around $100 equivalent).
So really, your "equivalent" system is $900. Okay, it's still cheaper than $1200. But that's hardly as gross as the pricing difference you were implying with $2500 vs $350.
$300 difference? Some people would NOT mind spending that extra cash for the "Apple design." Even more, as some people here have even described, there's a certain peace of mind that they are willing to pay for when it comes to their Macs. If you want to hate on Macs, you can similarly hate on Sonys for being overpriced for their "design" and brand name. Except Macs aren't overbloated with crapware like Sonys.
1. Rebates do matter - I had a $50 rebate on my GPU, a $5 rebate on both my 2GB sticks of RAM, I found my NZXT Case cheaper at WalMart.com, and my HDD was a recertified for $20. 2/3. PSU is Antec 430D. All for $350. I don't have some outdated DVD drive, and my OS was free. lets just say I run Linux. 4. HDD doesn't really matter, we both play SC2 just as fast. I have a modern 7200 Sata too. 5. Mac with screen for $150, sure, you can knock off $150 or add 150 to my build. whatever. 6. Mouse and Keyboard... $20 kinzu, $20 at most keyboard for SC2.
Hardly $900. More like $350 + 150 screen + 40 peripherals, and you could spend another $50 for Caviar Black 500GB.
But I'm not here to hate on Macs. I'm not here to hate on anything - like I said, I didn't know the difference between RAM and a HDD memory, I didn't know what a GPU vs a PSU was, 4 weeks ago. I'm just someone who is genuinely confused, and has no clue. I'm trying to figure things out. When I built my PC, I realized how retarded it was to ever, ever buy prebuilt (Alienware for $1k with a $40 GPU?). Realizing the customization of custom built, I don't see why people don't just buy Mac cases, or install Mac OS, on their desktop, and just save a ton of money.
And this whole peace of mind is crap. I have total peace of mind with my Microsoft, quit saying things like that with no evidence. If you can provide a statistic that PC's (read: not acers) have a higher repair rate, or that X% of PCs have a cpu break down where Macs dont, or some kind of FACT, I'd listen. But all I hear from MacFans is that "oh its so smooth and easy". Right. So is PC/Linux/MS. Just set it up correctly, or pay someone to set it up correctly for you.
Wouldn't it be nice if there were some place that was experienced with talking to people that don't understand computers well and fixes most of your problems for free?
Best Buy Geek Squad. Finished.
I honestly have no idea where you're getting $2700 from.
You can say you were able to avoid viruses, but remember: you're in the top 5% of computer understanding
No, I'm not. i Googled "what free computer security should I get?" and found I should get avast, peerblock, use MS's firewall, and malwarebytes. What do they do? I have no idea!
I bought my Macbook used for 300 USD. Unfortunately using it in public for work forces me to contend with the stereotypes of Mac users being blind spendthrifts with no capacity to critically make purchase decisions. I don't terribly mind because everyone who knows me knows I'm comfortable with a variety of platforms, but it's simply a pity to see people being so impetuous with their stalwart assumptions.
This conversation is about Desktops. We've already confirmed that with laptops, the price premium just for looks isn't that steep and may be worth it.
I remember when I worked for Circuit City, we even charged $40 EACH to convert a VHS to a DVD, and all we did was stick in the VHS and blank DVD into a converter deck and push a button. It's just how technical repair works... since forever.
Didn't Circuit City go out of business? LOL. You from Richmond man? I assume you are because that was the CC-HQ. What's up man, you in the RVA?
The reasons used to be some software that could only run on Mac OS, and since that OS used to only run on Mac hardware, some people would naturally get a Mac.
Fair enough. But what about today?
I have a MacBookPro for work, and an alienware m11x I bought for me
No offense, but you talk about how dumb college kids are for buying expensive macs just to be unique, and then you bought an Alienware?
cool pic though, its funny and seems true. If anything I'm a 360 person.
TL:DR of this thread so far: Why buy Mac OS when you can simply install good quality 'hackintosh on a PC? Why buy Mac when you can simply use a Mac case for your custom built? I think that buying a Mac is stupid when you can buy a PC, which is stupid when you can build a PC.
This discussion is only about Desktops. Laptops aren't customizable to the same level and MacBooks are priced more competitively, making the aesthetic more similar in price range.
I find the whole "virus" thing with Macs pretty laughable as well. I've been running my current PC that i built for $1100 for two years now. It still runs the newest games on extreme, maxed, ultra, whatever said game calls it. Haven't had a game yet not default me to max graphics. I have ZERO active virus protection that doesn't come with Windows 7. I have Malwarebytes that I keep updated, but for two solid years now, i have had zero viruses or malware. NONE. I just "built" my PC on the Mac site........$4000. Seriously, $4,000. To be fair I added a monitor to it, and a mouse, and upgraded my processor, so lets say my entire setup cost me $1600 to be really fair.
I don't use a Mac (in fact, I own no apple products other than a 2nd generation Nano that i purchased five years ago), and I used to think like a lot of the apple haters.
However, if you put things into perspective, Apples are not that expensive.
From what I see on the Mac store, only the 27" Mac is $2000. If you factor in the hardware, the OS, and especially the 27" LED monitor, it would cost you a lot more than $300 as you claim in your OP. Windows OS alone costs hundreds. You can also find special promotions fairly frequently, further bringing down the price. I'm not trying to change your bias, but you should compare things more objectively.
Here are the specs just for reference:
# 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5 # 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB # 1TB Serial ATA Drive # 8x double-layer SuperDrive # ATI Radeon HD 5750 1GB GDDR5 SDRAM # Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) & User's Guide # Magic Mouse
Also for Macbooks, a similarly spec'd IBM thinkpad (the only brand I trust) costs about the same as a Mac.
I'm not trying to be biased at all, I know nothing, I'm just trying to figure this out. And at least read my post on the top of this page, it seems you aren't reading the posts.
So even if you add $100 for my freeware OS, that means the price difference, at best, is $2500 - $500 = $2k difference in price. Why dont we just throw a diamong ring into my setup, and so the price difference is only $1k! This is still huge, huge! Considering that this is more than 2x the price!
I remember when I worked for Circuit City, we even charged $40 EACH to convert a VHS to a DVD, and all we did was stick in the VHS and blank DVD into a converter deck and push a button. It's just how technical repair works... since forever.
Didn't Circuit City go out of business? LOL. You from Richmond man? I assume you are because that was the CC-HQ. What's up man, you in the RVA?
The reasons used to be some software that could only run on Mac OS, and since that OS used to only run on Mac hardware, some people would naturally get a Mac.
I have a MacBookPro for work, and an alienware m11x I bought for me
No offense, but you talk about how dumb college kids are for buying expensive macs just to be unique, and then you bought an Alienware?
cool pic though, its funny and seems true. If anything I'm a 360 person.
TL:DR of this thread so far: Why buy Mac OS when you can simply install good quality 'hackintosh on a PC? Why buy Mac when you can simply use a Mac case for your custom built? I think that buying a Mac is stupid when you can buy a PC, which is stupid when you can build a PC.
This discussion is only about Desktops. Laptops aren't customizable to the same level and MacBooks are priced more competitively, making the aesthetic more similar in price range.
On February 15 2011 22:29 amd098 wrote: i think this picture sums it up best
Man this picture would look a lot better if he'd made it on a Mac :\
i did make it on my macbook pro... my m11x was at home at the time
for viruses, lets look at the market share windows is the majority of the market, and so the majority of viruses are made to target them apple has a smaller share, and so will see less viruses as macs grow, they will get more
On February 16 2011 02:35 alffla wrote: yo yoyoyo so what i REALLY DONT GET IS why are designers and artists and whatever people artsy people always praising mac?
like what makes macs so much better for doing design related stuff lol
there used to be an advantage for owning macs because some image software were exclusively apple only this advantage no longer exists (unless u count aperture, or whatever, which is not very good)
the conclusion i draw from this thread is that almost everyone agrees with OP, which is to say technologically somewhat saavy people all agree macs are stupid idea.
I thought we established in my previous post that a similary spec'd Mac with your system is only $300 after OS and hardware you didnt list. ($900 for your system vs $1200 for the 21.5" iMac). I dont know why you keep insisting your system was $350 since it doesnt list screen, psu, OS, keyboard, mouse, optical drive, etc.
So why does everyone keep comparing $3000 (or some ridiculous number) with a $350 PC?
And yes, Circuit City did go out of business. I dont understand your point. Best Buy still charges the same. Smaller computer shops charge charge a tad bit less. Still, the point is youre going to be charged an arm and a leg no matter where you go for whatever system you have (PC, Mac, car, dishwasher, whatever) if you dont know how to do it yourself.
[quotefind me another 11'' laptop with a 1gb graphics card please. alienware was my only option.[/quote]
You do realize a 10gb 5670 will never be as good as a 768mb gtx 460 right? And this blog isn't about laptops, we already established that Mac may be worthwhile for laptops. l2read.
Not many programs use more than 512mb of VRAM anyways. You may see 1-5fps increase by going from the 512 to 1GB version usually, while higher end model GPUs can change the FPS drastically. I'm sure it's your extensive computer knowledge that lead you to buy the alienware though.
End of discussion. This thread isn't about laptops.
i did make it on my macbook pro... my m11x was at home at the time
He was joking. Fail at sarcasm.
for viruses, lets look at the market share windows is the majority of the market, and so the majority of viruses are made to target them apple has a smaller share, and so will see less viruses as macs grow, they will get more
That sounds so smart. "Windows makes the best computers, so lets use shitty ones because then no one will be retarded enough to make a virus for it!" Ignoring the security features of the new Windows 7/Vista 64 bit, and ignoring the fact that Microsoft Security Essentials, which is free and can be put on Mac or any PC, is arguably the best antivirus out right now, you're computer is 'vulnerable' to viruses no matter what the OS is, unless you have an antivirus, firewall, and malware protection.
Or, you could not fap-fap-fap and download torrents and sketchy emails and downloads. But i guess Mac users wouldn't know that, and you certainly wouldn't know that if you actually think Alienware is worth buying. You do realize that an Alienware is just a Dell with a GPU, and a crappy, bottlenecking one at that right?
And a smaller company with less resources will have less ability to address new security threats to a large company with the resources to deal with them proactively.
That reasoning just sounds so dumb. You intentionally buy a crappy/overpriced computer so you don't have to get a virus? You do realize you can just format your computer and get rid of viruses right? And how many times have viruses been a problem on your 'unsafe' alienware? Good thing you have the mac because your alienware has so many viruses right?
Good job being fooled by advertising. There are millions of viruses out there, and millions for Mac too. The problem is the ONE virus that gets by, that's ahead of today's security suites, that you got by being a dumbass and opening a sketchy program.
I thought we established in my previous post that a similary spec'd Mac with your system is only $300 after OS and hardware you didnt list. ($900 for your system vs $1200 for the 21.5" iMac). I dont know why you keep insisting your system was $350 since it doesnt list screen, psu, OS, keyboard, mouse, optical drive, etc.
We also established that the $2,700 MacPro does not come with peripherals or a screen either. Furthermore, I got my OS for free - if you want to say pirating is invalid, well, you're wrong, because the reality is that I got my Windows 7 Ultimate for free. BUT - for arguments sake, if pirating is out of bounds for most people, we'll say I'm running Ubuntu or similar freeware. Google also has a free operating system, Chromium, that you can get for free, that should be amazing.
And yes, Circuit City did go out of business. I dont understand your point.
my point is that what you claim what 'everyone does' may be faulty (not to mention horrible logic) because that company went out of business. I'm sure that was a great business model, overcharging people to convert VHS to DVD. I'm sure it has nothing to do with why they went out of business.
Still, the point is youre going to be charged an arm and a leg no matter where you go for whatever system you have (PC, Mac, car, dishwasher, whatever) if you dont know how to do it yourself.
A lot of PC's come with great warranties, something that Mac has a mixed reputation for. If you built your computer, usually places like Newegg, amazon, or the company itself like MSI or AMD offer great warranties. I've gone to bestbuy and had my laptop fixed many times when I knew nothing, because of my warranty. But I get your point - the point is that because it's an arm and a leg for everything, it doesnt swing the favor towards mac or pc either way.
TL;DR - Laptops are not what we are talking about, and much different. - The first person to actually claim Mac is better, bought an Alienware.
Look, I'm not here to say Mac sucks. That's not my argument, Mac could very well be better than PC in every way. My point is why buy a Mac when you can get a simliarly spec'd PC for so much cheaper, or a custom built one for so much cheaper (and for that reason I think buying a prebuilt at all is stupid), and when all the great Mac programs are now able to be put on PC, and the fact you can simply install a rig in a Mac case. There used to be reason to get Mac, but today, there is none.
And I'm not even talking about Microsoft. Linux, is completely customizable (see Macbuntu). Now I realize time may be an issue, in which case Mac people need to admit: you would rather pay thousands, literally thousands, of extra dollars to use a simple computer tailormade for you rather than spend a day learning more knowledge. You would rather someone else did it for you, blow the loads of money you have, and not be bothered.
I got a 2008 macbook pro for free (I also recently spent about $700 building a desktop for myself). I enjoy using the mac, the interface is very friendly and if you don't really know much about computers its great. But, I will say, if I had to actually pay for a laptop I would probably never get a mac, unless I got some kind of insane discount. Yeah they look cool, and I guess they're the "hip" thing to have, but in terms of performance for the same price you could get a non-mac laptop thats almost twice as fast.
I want quality in a notebook. If you factor in quality - macs are cheaper than their PC counterparts. The HP envy series suffers from terribad screens. The VAIOs (that are comparable in quality) cost even more than macs. The DELLs are a complete mess and the rest are just a heap of squeaky plastic and overheating parts.
For a portable system i'll always choose mac over PC. For a stationary one i'll always choose PC, much for the joy of assembling & clocking it myself.
laptop wise, alot of people like mac because it's very comfortable and stylish. apple works very hard to ensure that their products are "in style" and because of that, they can raise prices on their shit. The mac laptop has alot of benefits that other laptops can't compare to, like how safe it is. While it is often criticized as being so safe that it's hard to customize anything, mac does have a sexy-ish kind of gui. also, the mac is known to have a long-assed battery life. I was once in a hackathon with my friends ( I have a MSI laptop and he has a macbook) i had to recharge my battery like, 2/3 times before he did it once. also, the macbook is very sturdy, that means if you drop it, it's pretty much like a rock. So in terms of regular day uses, mac is pretty much ideal for a regular person who just needs their laptop to behave like a laptop.
To sum up... mac has very good build quality, looks very good, and mac OS X which we will get to later.
Application wise... the mac laptop and macs are good with mac applications, very good with them in fact. And mac has a bunch of very nice applications built in like adobe suite and windows office all work well. Also, mac can run alot of linux programs and since they're all open-sourced, it's alot more convenient. To a general user tho, mac won't crash on their applications and since the average user wants their laptop to behave like it's just a tool, no complications, that it's quite a bonus.
However, I know some programmers say, "Ohhhh, but you can't customize a mac and it's so slow" This isn't true. As a matter of fact, in terms of programming, the window OS is by far the worst, linux and mac osx are way better. And another point for mac is that the MAC osx is the only truly stable linux gui. That might sound confusing but here's some background info the mac osx is kinda a bsd-derivative. based off the bsd project. and mac is from the mac-5 project, dawn win or soemthing like that. bsd is a type of unix, berkley software distrubution. basically, linux is bsd. and linux is the standard for programmers because well... all the companies love it. if you know command line, u can put that on ur resume and it rlly stands out against some1 who has only used windows interface.
(I'm a software engineer so i know more about programming)
Another annoying thing about windows is that to program, you have to download a bunch of IDEs and it becomes kinda heavy and lags the system. For example, i have like, 11 IDEs. and it's so annoying cuz sometimes i wanna run a java back-end to a perl front-end and it takes alot of time to set-up... and i dont' wanna use those ultra heavy ides like eclipse that does all the project management shit for you... I'm gna switch to linux asap hehehe, it's soooo much better because u got vim and emac and that's pretty much all you need ^^
Okay... on the contra-side... mac OSX's seriously suck for gaming. They don't work well with graphics cards and it's hard to customize your graphics card anyways. even linux is better at gaming. to game on a mac, you want to put windows os onto the mac ><.
Anyways.... in general, macs aren't as shitty as ppl think they are. they're just expensive as hell. But they are stable like crazy and rarely crashes. But it's rather silly to compare since you can run the same applications on both macs and pcs and also, alot of linux software have mac counterparts Oh... one of the reasons you would like windows is because you can customize the build and i suppose that's why alot of people admire it...
I'm not a hardware person, just software and they're pretty much the same, if you're a programmer, seriously go for linux.
On February 16 2011 00:59 Belial88 wrote: TL:DR of this thread so far: Why buy Mac OS when you can simply install good quality 'hackintosh on a PC? Why buy Mac when you can simply use a Mac case for your custom built? I think that buying a Mac is stupid when you can buy a PC, which is stupid when you can build a PC.
This discussion is only about Desktops. Laptops aren't customizable to the same level and MacBooks are priced more competitively, making the aesthetic more similar in price range.
Okay, let's see here: You cannot easily install good quality hackintosh on a PC. All your other points can be answered, simply: people DO NOT buy Mac Pros. Those are by far the smallest percentage of Macs sold, in the consumer market at least. You asked in the OP "Why would people buy a Mac?" People buy a Mac when they're looking for a laptop or a nice all-in-one. People do not buy a Mac Pro as a desktop; the only reason anyone buys a desktop anymore is for gaming, high-performance computing, or really cheap computing. So when people "buy Macs," they are not looking for one of those things. When you limit the discussion to only desktops, there is little reason to buy a Mac at all, but you're then ignoring 95% of Macs sold.
On February 16 2011 05:37 Thrill wrote: The HP envy series suffers from terribad screens.
what
The radiance displays were some of the best. They don't offer them any more, but I suspect you don't know what you're talking about if you think they were "terribad". The area that the Macbook clearly beats out the Envy series is the touchpad, no doubt about it.
Another annoying thing about windows is that to program, you have to download a bunch of IDEs and it becomes kinda heavy and lags the system. For example, i have like, 11 IDEs. and it's so annoying cuz sometimes i wanna run a java back-end to a perl front-end and it takes alot of time to set-up... and i dont' wanna use those ultra heavy ides like eclipse that does all the project management shit for you... I'm gna switch to linux asap hehehe, it's soooo much better because u got vim and emac and that's pretty much all you need ^^
I agree with most of your post, but this one is just stupid.
If you need 11 IDEs, regardless which platform you are on, you are going to need 11 IDEs. You know you can install vim on Windows right...?
If you don't use Eclipse on a mac/linux, you aren't going to use it on Windows.
Another annoying thing about windows is that to program, you have to download a bunch of IDEs and it becomes kinda heavy and lags the system. For example, i have like, 11 IDEs. and it's so annoying cuz sometimes i wanna run a java back-end to a perl front-end and it takes alot of time to set-up... and i dont' wanna use those ultra heavy ides like eclipse that does all the project management shit for you... I'm gna switch to linux asap hehehe, it's soooo much better because u got vim and emac and that's pretty much all you need ^^
I agree with most of your post, but this one is just stupid.
If you need 11 IDEs, regardless which platform you are on, you are going to need 11 IDEs. You know you can install vim on Windows right...?
If you don't use Eclipse on a mac/linux, you aren't going to use it on Windows.
Yes, i know I can use vim on Windows, but on linux, vim comes automatically and you can compile programs straight on vim. Also, if i get vim on Windows, it's pretty much another ide. and it's going to be harder to setup.
On February 16 2011 06:36 D4L[invd] wrote: *Long Post Removed* Anyways.... in general, macs aren't as shitty as ppl think they are. they're just expensive as hell. But they are stable like crazy and rarely crashes. But it's rather silly to compare since you can run the same applications on both macs and pcs and also, alot of linux software have mac counterparts Oh... one of the reasons you would like windows is because you can customize the build and i suppose that's why alot of people admire it...
I'm not a hardware person, just software and they're pretty much the same, if you're a programmer, seriously go for linux.
Linux.. but I want to be able to watch youtube videos in full screen without getting the screen to freeze!
It's true my profs recommend linux, and they have it on some of the school computers, but I think it would be best to do a dual partition, not a full linux computer. Virtual (eg vmware) OS is slow. Don't do that.
wow that's already $1000! gee no wonder everyone is looking at the iMac when you're trying to make this stupid comparison!
i don't know what the difference is between a xeon and a regular processor, but it's obvious that it's used for more than sc2.
and on top of that you just can't buy os x and install it in on any pc. we've established that already.
---
i've used macs before. i don't particularly like them but i can see why people like them.
first of all you have to consider who's using the computer and for what purpose, and what their relative skill level is.
how many of us have used a friend's computer and seen it filled with tons of crap and running slow as hell? that's who mac is for. they just want to do simple things safely, like browse the internet, chat with friends, look at pictures, etc.
fine you can get someone to build you a computer. that doesn't mean it's safe. antivirus programs aren't 100%. you can unknowingly install trojan horses/keyloggers or whatever. and since windows is the most popular platform, most of these viruses are designed for it. yes there are viruses for mac too, but they're not as common. even my computer got jacked by malware that tried to get me to buy their fake antivirus, and i know my stuff. i would totally recommend a mac for these people that i don't trust with computer usage. and there are a lot of them out there.
i'm totally down with linux even though i'm not a poweruser, but it requires a lot of understanding and time which some people just really don't wanna invest in. i'd make my kids use it because they should have all the time in the world.
Seems like a lot of the posts here on both sides are pretty ignorant and just looking at numbers. I personally have: 1) macbook pro 2) HP laptop 3) mac mini 4) desktop PC with ubuntu and I've owned many computers with many operating systems Computers can be good for different things. #3 on that list is kind of stupidly expensive for what it is, but I put it to awesome use, it doesn't clutter my entertainment unit and when I have guests come over I don't need to teach them how to use it because a child could, that's great for any kind of entertainment center device.
My macbook is pretty old and getting less use now that I have my mac mini, but when I want smooth gui interface and to be able to do development with a decent terminal, a mac is a much better choice than a PC. Go to many firms that do a lot of java development and you'll find that the people there don't have windows laptops or linux laptops, but macbook pros instead and there's good reason for this, it's an easy out of the box laptop for doing development work while not having to waste time getting basic entertainment stuff to work.
I've actually had a few laptops with ubuntu, but it's really inconvenient to get everything you want to work on it. That's why when I got a job that paid well, I stopped having ubuntu laptops, wasn't worth my time to maintain and I didn't enjoy doing it anymore.
As for windows, well the #1 reason I keep a windows laptop is for chess. Most chess engines really will max out everything you can give it both in terms of memory and computational power. Unfortunately windows is getting a bigger and bigger footprint, but running these programs on mac through parallels, wine, etc has always gotten ridiculously bad performance for me and I take my analysis too seriously to waste my time doing it with a lesser computer.
When I sit at work I have a windows box, a mac, and an ubuntu install in front of me (3 separate computers) and I can tell you if you're looking for something cheap and reliable you can't beat the ubuntu box. I've gone 6 months without restarting it before and without issues and every time I restart my mac or windows box I always notice a substantial increase in performance due to very poor memory management and user control in both, but they do things better.
TL,DR: Different computers are good for different things, the time spent building/maintaining a computer is not free unless there's nothing you'd rather be doing or you're a worthless human being (which if you can build and maintain a computer, you're probably not).
The standard iMac when it came out had ~$1000 hardware. Throw in a $1100 screen and it comes to $2100 , which is around the price of the 27" iMac, then you have to include the small form factor, keyboard, and mouse.
The panel, IIRC, is basically the same LG panel used in the high end Dells and HPs and the extremely large resolution, image quality, and vivid colours doesn't come cheap (yes you can notice the difference between an IPS/*VA and TN screen easily even when reading text). A high quality screen is something people want when buying a home PC to watch movies, look at pictures, and play games.
If I didn't hate Finder (copy/paste lots of files still sucks balls how is this still the case after all this time?), I'd probably buy a iMac but I can't justify buying one and not use OSX on it.
Macs are generally used in creative work (music / video editing / etc). Atleast for music its possibly the most stable platform to create on and also considered by many a standard.
[quote]and on top of that you just can't buy os x and install it in on any pc. we've established that already./quote]
Hackintosh and Snow Leopard, quit saying that.
[quote]even my computer got jacked by malware that tried to get me to buy their fake antivirus, and i know my stuff. i would totally recommend a mac for these people that i don't trust with computer usage. and there are a lot of them out there. [/quote]
They aren't going to be any safer with a Mac. Clicking fap-fap-fap sites with a Mac will get you into trouble just as easily.
[quote]i'm totally down with linux even though i'm not a poweruser, but it requires a lot of understanding and time which some people just really don't wanna invest in. i'd make my kids use it because they should have all the time in the world.[/quote]
Right... so this just goes with my argument. Mac, while it doesn't suck, it too expensive to be worth it. At all. And people get Mac because they are ignorant, for better or worse.
[quote]Different computers are good for different things, the time spent building/maintaining a computer is not free unless there's nothing you'd rather be doing or you're a worthless human being (which if you can build and maintain a computer, you're probably not).[/quote]
i agree, I think there's a certain point where, due to the value people may have in their time ie rich, they can't be bothered to make an educated decision, or will consciously make a Mac decision because they can't be bothered in setting up a PC and performance doesn't matter.
As to someone who said less than 5% of Macs sold are the desktop, I guess that proves the point that Mac Desktop is stupid, and it's not really the point of Mac. I guess everyone agrees, TODAY, there is no reason to buy a Mac over a custom built PC, or prebuilt for that matter.
No, there is a reason to buy a Mac. If you only sperge about computer specs of course the Mac is worse value because Apple's business model is to sell you a rock solid computer that is essentially a complete package.
You can buy a dirt cheap computer one quarter of the price however: - Its not in the extremely small form factor - Its no where near as quiet because the Mac pretty much uses the aluminum body as a huge heatsink - The screen is nowhere near as nice - Aftermarket support is nowhere near as good - It syncs well with other Apple products - Comes with nice keyboard and awful mouse
Apple is smashing the shit out of all tech companies because they understand that to retain customers you have to position, support and launch your products well. Guys like Samsung fail to update their smartphones and force people to root their devices, guys like HP launch their very solid WebOS devices in the worst possible manner, and Motorola doesn't understand that people don't give a shit about how many gflops their device can do and just want a product that is smooth in operation.
Apple could very well decrease the price of their products if they're forced to as the profit margins on all of their products are more than 10 times of their competitors but that's not their target market. Don't bring up market share, Apple doesn't care about market share it cares about profits and it is earning so much more money than its competition that its getting funny.
and on top of that you just can't buy os x and install it in on any pc. we've established that already.
Hackintosh and Snow Leopard, quit saying that.
Hackintosh and Snow Leopard does not guarantee you to have a fully functional OS X system unless you go thru the hassle of making sure your hardware is compatible and you got the drivers. And then, you are unable to have Apple support to back you.
even my computer got jacked by malware that tried to get me to buy their fake antivirus, and i know my stuff. i would totally recommend a mac for these people that i don't trust with computer usage. and there are a lot of them out there.
They aren't going to be any safer with a Mac. Clicking fap-fap-fap sites with a Mac will get you into trouble just as easily.
i'm totally down with linux even though i'm not a poweruser, but it requires a lot of understanding and time which some people just really don't wanna invest in. i'd make my kids use it because they should have all the time in the world.
Right... so this just goes with my argument. Mac, while it doesn't suck, it too expensive to be worth it. At all. And people get Mac because they are ignorant, for better or worse.
Different computers are good for different things, the time spent building/maintaining a computer is not free unless there's nothing you'd rather be doing or you're a worthless human being (which if you can build and maintain a computer, you're probably not).
i agree, I think there's a certain point where, due to the value people may have in their time ie rich, they can't be bothered to make an educated decision, or will consciously make a Mac decision because they can't be bothered in setting up a PC and performance doesn't matter.
As to someone who said less than 5% of Macs sold are the desktop, I guess that proves the point that Mac Desktop is stupid, and it's not really the point of Mac. I guess everyone agrees, TODAY, there is no reason to buy a Mac over a custom built PC, or prebuilt for that matter.
"They can't be bothered to make an educated decision". That certainly explains why a lot of very computer literate people use Macs. I am talking about people who make a living out of programming and software development. I'd say they know a couple things about computers that you don't.
No, people do not get Mac because they are ignorant. People get Mac because being productive or entertained by a computer shouldn't be harder than pressing the on button, and maintaining your computer shouldn't be harder than setting an appointment at the Genius Bar.
I know my Windows and bash shell and SQL and Java and other things like that. I just prefer to leave them at the workplace. And if I had a choice, I'd do my development work on a Mac.
If your primary criteria is a bunch of numbers in a spec sheet, yes, nothing beats making your own computer. But if specs are a second-rate criteria compared to user experience and customer service, having the latest generation processor doesn't has that much value.
Wake up, a spec sheet has no reason to be the only criteria to determine what is a better computer buy. You created the thread asking why someone would get a Mac rather than building a computer like you did, and you got your answer. Please don't proceed by making fun of other people's intelligence because of your lack of understanding.
I bought a Macbook Pro because I'm an idiot and I listened to my friends' advice. Everything is hassle free until I have to boot into windows to do...well, pretty much anything.
I still like the interfacing on Mac more than Windows but it isn't worth the extra $1000. Somehow, despite this, I don't really regret paying the extra money. I guess I just think this laptop will reliably last me longer than a Dell or an hp would, which could make it worth it, but if it lasts to the point where I want to buy a computer that has the most up to date technology anyway then it seems like it'd be all for nothing.
apple successfully markets their products as self-contained products that you can buy and they will work and you don't need to worry about it, and if they break, some other computer nerds will fix it for you.
if you build a PC you actually have to understand something and put in some work into building/selecting the parts and take more responsibility for the functioning of your product.
from this perspective installing the mac OS on a computer you built doesn't make any sense - the apple "product" is marketed as a single thing, computer + OS + service.
I'm a student in Multimedia and Life without Mac to me make no sense. When doing Video Editing in a professional environment the mac is essential to work efficiently. Pro Tools, Avid Media Composer for exemples are much more fluid on a Mac Pro then a Pc. I don't know why technically(probably the Unix Os) but it's the way it is. For Audio Pc can do it very good but mainly video is the place for mac.
As for anything else, like home things and gaming the Pc is the way to go (as of me!)
In short, the same reason people buy BOSE headphones, razer gaming mice, or anything that is overpriced and overrated. Marketing. Very very good marketing. Most people don't care or have time to research competitors or the product they are buying. Most people buy on impulse. Most people just want to be wowed by buzzwords and they're sold. Mac does this very well.
On February 16 2011 11:11 Belial88 wrote: Hackintosh and Snow Leopard, quit saying that.
uh hackintosh = no support from apple, and reliability is a selling point of OSX.
They aren't going to be any safer with a Mac. Clicking fap-fap-fap sites with a Mac will get you into trouble just as easily.
as mac is unix based and requires permissions and passwords for modification that the user has to grant, it won't be as easy.
Right... so this just goes with my argument. Mac, while it doesn't suck, it too expensive to be worth it. At all. And people get Mac because they are ignorant, for better or worse.
no because you just fucking ignored the fact that the expense of Mac Pros are for a completely different user, and that you're not making the right comparisons. your $350 system + peripherals and display devices and stuff vs an entry-level iMac is in fact rather comparable.
I guess everyone agrees, TODAY, there is no reason to buy a Mac over a custom built PC, or prebuilt for that matter.
i guess everyone agrees because you like to put words in everyone's mouth when they're disagreeing, and because you like to ignore facts that completely contradict your opinion
find me another 11'' laptop with a 1gb graphics card please. alienware was my only option.
You do realize a 10gb 5670 will never be as good as a 768mb gtx 460 right? And this blog isn't about laptops, we already established that Mac may be worthwhile for laptops. l2read.
Not many programs use more than 512mb of VRAM anyways. You may see 1-5fps increase by going from the 512 to 1GB version usually, while higher end model GPUs can change the FPS drastically. I'm sure it's your extensive computer knowledge that lead you to buy the alienware though.
End of discussion. This thread isn't about laptops.
for viruses, lets look at the market share windows is the majority of the market, and so the majority of viruses are made to target them apple has a smaller share, and so will see less viruses as macs grow, they will get more
That sounds so smart. "Windows makes the best computers, so lets use shitty ones because then no one will be retarded enough to make a virus for it!" Ignoring the security features of the new Windows 7/Vista 64 bit, and ignoring the fact that Microsoft Security Essentials, which is free and can be put on Mac or any PC, is arguably the best antivirus out right now, you're computer is 'vulnerable' to viruses no matter what the OS is, unless you have an antivirus, firewall, and malware protection.
Or, you could not fap-fap-fap and download torrents and sketchy emails and downloads. But i guess Mac users wouldn't know that, and you certainly wouldn't know that if you actually think Alienware is worth buying. You do realize that an Alienware is just a Dell with a GPU, and a crappy, bottlenecking one at that right?
And a smaller company with less resources will have less ability to address new security threats to a large company with the resources to deal with them proactively.
That reasoning just sounds so dumb. You intentionally buy a crappy/overpriced computer so you don't have to get a virus? You do realize you can just format your computer and get rid of viruses right? And how many times have viruses been a problem on your 'unsafe' alienware? Good thing you have the mac because your alienware has so many viruses right?
Good job being fooled by advertising. There are millions of viruses out there, and millions for Mac too. The problem is the ONE virus that gets by, that's ahead of today's security suites, that you got by being a dumbass and opening a sketchy program.
I thought we established in my previous post that a similary spec'd Mac with your system is only $300 after OS and hardware you didnt list. ($900 for your system vs $1200 for the 21.5" iMac). I dont know why you keep insisting your system was $350 since it doesnt list screen, psu, OS, keyboard, mouse, optical drive, etc.
We also established that the $2,700 MacPro does not come with peripherals or a screen either. Furthermore, I got my OS for free - if you want to say pirating is invalid, well, you're wrong, because the reality is that I got my Windows 7 Ultimate for free. BUT - for arguments sake, if pirating is out of bounds for most people, we'll say I'm running Ubuntu or similar freeware. Google also has a free operating system, Chromium, that you can get for free, that should be amazing.
And yes, Circuit City did go out of business. I dont understand your point.
my point is that what you claim what 'everyone does' may be faulty (not to mention horrible logic) because that company went out of business. I'm sure that was a great business model, overcharging people to convert VHS to DVD. I'm sure it has nothing to do with why they went out of business.
Still, the point is youre going to be charged an arm and a leg no matter where you go for whatever system you have (PC, Mac, car, dishwasher, whatever) if you dont know how to do it yourself.
A lot of PC's come with great warranties, something that Mac has a mixed reputation for. If you built your computer, usually places like Newegg, amazon, or the company itself like MSI or AMD offer great warranties. I've gone to bestbuy and had my laptop fixed many times when I knew nothing, because of my warranty. But I get your point - the point is that because it's an arm and a leg for everything, it doesnt swing the favor towards mac or pc either way.
TL;DR - Laptops are not what we are talking about, and much different. - The first person to actually claim Mac is better, bought an Alienware.
I have repeatedly referenced the above. It is a 21.5" iMac for $1200. IT COMES WITH A SCREEN, KEYBOARD, AND MOUSE.
And no, I don't count rebates and sales because they come and go. Anyone can just as easily say there's a student discount on Macs, free iPod, etc. But I'm comparing base prices because you're obviously not going to get an exact comparison.
I guess you have not been building computers long enough to realize there's a difference between generic and high quality parts. Sure you can piece together a bunch of parts, but there's a difference between a $300 and $60 mobo, a $40 and $120 PSU, etc. This is why, like I said, I am comparing parts as similar as I can.
To say you don't need an OS because you can use a free one? Time is just as costly to many people. In order to use most of those free OS's you need to learn how to use them. As someone, who does TECH WORK, has even stated in this thread, it's NICE to be able to go home and turn something on and KNOW it works. That's reason enough for most people -- To NOT have to tinker with their system. Sure, someone's 1969 Mustang GT may be faster than my 2006 Honda Accord, but I haven't had to do anything more than change the fluids and get new tires for the last 100,000 miles (if it's not obvious, I'm referring the American vs import car issue, which is arguable, I understand, so let's not get off topic). This is reason enough for me to stick with it and keep buying Japanese (unless they start sucking, in which case I'll look for the new best thing).
Best Buy charges the same or more for similar work Circuit City did. That's why it's logical to assume it had NOTHING to do with the prices. There ARE people out there WILLING to pay these prices and that's why they charge them. That's the bottom-line.
I don't know where you're getting your info on Mac warranties, but I'd like to see it if you have reference. As someone who dealt with warranties on a regular basis working at Circuit City and in my daily life (I purchase a lot of technical equipment -- built 3 computers in the last year not to mention gadgets and such; just had to RMA a couple mobos and RAM, a Core i7, and an MX518 in the last month), I can tell you from my experience that they're all virtually the same. Some stand out above the rest (i.e. Logitech and G.Skill). Again, just my experience, so I'm not going to say that as a matter of fact. The reason why I say that about the Mac warranties is because I've heard the complete opposite. Almost everyone I know who owns a Mac is MORE than happy to buy the extra warranties which can cost upwards of $300. The only extended warranty I've ever even purchased was on my iPhones and iPods. If people are willing to dish out that kind of money, I wonder why.
I guess I should have said this before, but look, I'm not arguing with you that Macs are "overpriced." I don't see myself buying one anytime soon. But, I'm merely trying to show you another perspective. I don't think anyone would agree with the $350 PC vs $3000 Mac you're blowing it up to be. The "overpriced-ness" though, is deemed negligible to most since they consider it to be a premium for the few niches Apple offers, albeit minor in some people's minds.
On February 16 2011 14:53 ScaryOlive wrote: I'm a student in Multimedia and Life without Mac to me make no sense. When doing Video Editing in a professional environment the mac is essential to work efficiently. Pro Tools, Avid Media Composer for exemples are much more fluid on a Mac Pro then a Pc. I don't know why technically(probably the Unix Os) but it's the way it is. For Audio Pc can do it very good but mainly video is the place for mac.
As for anything else, like home things and gaming the Pc is the way to go (as of me!)
Memory management on OSX and Windows is completely different. When you close a program in OSX, it stays in the RAM unless you actually kill the process so if you want to open up Photoshop again, it'll pop up quickly. With Windows when you close a program, you've closed the program. That's probably why you think it works efficiently and its also why OSX is awful if you don't have 4gb of RAM.
That being said, you really should be productive on both systems unless you use AppleScript or something. Both OSX and Windows can get solid Aero Snap and Expose functionality through third party software and the only difference between the two is Finder and Explorer, which can be better or worse depending on what you do. I help out a friend with his photography business and I find both systems similarly productive, of course this is likely different with video editing.
On February 16 2011 14:53 ScaryOlive wrote: I'm a student in Multimedia and Life without Mac to me make no sense. When doing Video Editing in a professional environment the mac is essential to work efficiently. Pro Tools, Avid Media Composer for exemples are much more fluid on a Mac Pro then a Pc. I don't know why technically(probably the Unix Os) but it's the way it is. For Audio Pc can do it very good but mainly video is the place for mac.
As for anything else, like home things and gaming the Pc is the way to go (as of me!)
Memory management on OSX and Windows is completely different. When you close a program in OSX, it stays in the RAM unless you actually kill the process so if you want to open up Photoshop again, it'll pop up quickly. With Windows when you close a program, you've closed the program. That's probably why you think it works efficiently and its also why OSX is awful if you don't have 4gb of RAM.
You are confusing application management with memory management. Memory management is pretty much the same nowadays.
The difference is in application management, where in OS X, closing the last window of a program is not the same as quitting the program. That does not say anything about how OS X manages the resources to keep the programs running.
Mac OS had memory management problems prior to OS X, where the OS had to pre-allocate all the memory the program was expected to use, even if it was not going to use it.
I would never buy a mac desktop, but i think apple makes fantastic laptops. Ive had my macbook for 4 years now, and it still runs at the same speed I bought it at.
General rule of thumb: Desktop: windows Laptop: mac Aging Computer: linux
Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
uh really, i built a 400mhz 1st geneneration celeron pc with 32mb geforce 2, dvd drive, a 60gb hd, and 512mb ram in 2000
it ran up until august when i was FORCED to throw it away, it worked fine for bw, photoshop 7, office xp (an win XP sp3 at the end)
how many times did i reformat it, once. when i went from win2000 to xp and i hated the upgrade OS option, screwed me up when i went from 95 to 98
how many viruses infected it, none (though 2 ex girlfriends did try). i ran norton systemworks 2000 until avast came along
browser, it used them all, IE 4, nutscrape navigator, opera (when you had to buy it to remove ads), opera (after it became ad free) then finally firefox (damn you adblock+ & skipscreen for spoiling me)
now that hunk of junk cost me nearly $500 (my life savings of a 10th grader) how certified was i, none. i figured if it fits, im putting it in the right place, which worked i got my A+ certification 4 months later.
by comparison my 02 graduation gift of a dell for $2000 had a 120gb hd, 128mb ati something, 2ghz p4, dvd/cdrw and 1gb ram i had problems with it from the first year onward. i sent it off and they replaced the dvdrw. then i needed a new mobo cuz it stopped working finally 20 days after my 3 year service plan died, it killed itself and i gave it away this summer for my friend to perform surgery on
my macbook pro? had it since summer... we've sent it back to apple 3 times so far, touchpad stopped, usb port stopped working, and the screen stopped getting power what do i run on it? office, photoshop (basic contrast brightness adjustment), and BLAST searching on NIH's website
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Assuming he bought a GTX460, it actually probably perform better in gaming you know!
Everything else? Who gives a shit, you can't tell the difference between rock bottom Athlon II or one of those $1k Intel Gulftowns for normal office work.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
Dunno about the USA, but if you want a true quad core processor and a GPU that can actually handle graphically intensive games decently you're going to pay over $2000 AUD for one unless you don't mind dealing with refurbished goods.
On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote: Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information.
You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes.
Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. Here
And cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot..
Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/programmers/casual users.
You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself.
edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
On February 17 2011 02:40 AyeH wrote: edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
Oh bullshit.
I bought a 13" MacBook Pro because I wanted to have a laptop for university that has a long lasting battery while still being able to run games quite smoothly. I have successfully ran WoW and SC2 and The Orange Box games on Steam on OSX and BFBC2 on Windows 7 through Boot Camp. Obviously, if I am going to play games, I'd still play them on a desktop if I have the choice, but the laptop has helped me greatly while I was feeling sick or away from home.
As for Mac desktops, yeah, I probably wouldn't buy one, especially for gaming, I prefer having a Windows system for that.
On February 15 2011 13:32 emperorchampion wrote: Hahaha, my favourite in-lecture game is to guess the Mac to non-mac ratio. Usually about 70-90% of all laptops are Macs lol... ahh University students- so educated. :D
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Assuming he bought a GTX460, it actually probably perform better in gaming you know!
Everything else? Who gives a shit, you can't tell the difference between rock bottom Athlon II or one of those $1k Intel Gulftowns for normal office work.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
Dunno about the USA, but if you want a true quad core processor and a GPU that can actually handle graphically intensive games decently you're going to pay over $2000 AUD for one unless you don't mind dealing with refurbished goods.
The incorrectness of your post is palpable.
My graphics card is either superior or roughly in the same ballpark, though I honestly am not too up to date between the nVidia and ATI modern cards. Regardless, my HD 5750 does the trick quite well (Ultra everything at 30 FPS in Mac OS X, I can assume in Windows it would be about 60+FPS -- and yes, I will admit Mac OS X is at a temporary disadvantage for gaming, though running Windows is an option so I do not see that as a mark against the Mac itself by any means).
There is no incorrectness in my post. Everything I stated was either a fact or an opinion. None of it was fabricated, unlike the vast majority of misinformation in this thread about Macs. You have absolutely failed to point out ANYTHING in my post that was false, or make any counter-arguments of any kind.
Pretty unfair IMO to say Macs are expensive because you can make a crappy PC with shoddy parts for $300 and you have to pay $2000 for a really high-end professionally manufactured Mac. Apples to oranges and such. As for "can actually handle graphically intensive games", you don't need anywhere remotely near the specs you mentioned, depending I suppose on your definition of "graphically intensive".
More importantly, I didn't say "you can get a bleeding edge Mac for under $2000". But there are a ton of models of Mac that you CAN get for as little as $800, all of which will play StarCraft 2. You can also get PCs for $5000+. The allegation I was responding to was that the cheapest Mac is $2000 -- SIMPLY ABSURD.
On February 17 2011 02:40 AyeH wrote: You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes.
Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. Here
And cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot..
Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/programmers/casual users.
You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself.
edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
Sorry, but Macs are better than PCs. That is my opinion. It has nothing to do with ignorance, quite the contrary it is based on a ton of experience with many different kinds of both types of systems. And based on the fact that Macs can run Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux, while PCs can run Windows and Linux, it's a very sustainable opinion.
Most of the cases on that site I have seen before, and I find a lot of them gaudy, ugly, and bulky. Others, however, are pretty cool looking, and I would have nothing against them, but I still would not put them in the same league as Apple's design, which is world-class (not to mention more practical than the traditional tower). Once again, my taste has absolutely no relation to my computing knowledge.
Everything I said was either 100% accurate or simply an opinion, which I am entitled to.
It's funny, I always come to these threads and participate by sharing what I think is better about the Mac, and explaining all the things that are truly, factually superior about them. But no one ever argues my points. Instead, they call me ignorant, stupid, or pick on my taste.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
uh really, i built a 400mhz 1st geneneration celeron pc with 32mb geforce 2, dvd drive, a 60gb hd, and 512mb ram in 2000
it ran up until august when i was FORCED to throw it away, it worked fine for bw, photoshop 7, office xp (an win XP sp3 at the end)
how many times did i reformat it, once. when i went from win2000 to xp and i hated the upgrade OS option, screwed me up when i went from 95 to 98
how many viruses infected it, none (though 2 ex girlfriends did try). i ran norton systemworks 2000 until avast came along
browser, it used them all, IE 4, nutscrape navigator, opera (when you had to buy it to remove ads), opera (after it became ad free) then finally firefox (damn you adblock+ & skipscreen for spoiling me)
now that hunk of junk cost me nearly $500 (my life savings of a 10th grader) how certified was i, none. i figured if it fits, im putting it in the right place, which worked i got my A+ certification 4 months later.
by comparison my 02 graduation gift of a dell for $2000 had a 120gb hd, 128mb ati something, 2ghz p4, dvd/cdrw and 1gb ram i had problems with it from the first year onward. i sent it off and they replaced the dvdrw. then i needed a new mobo cuz it stopped working finally 20 days after my 3 year service plan died, it killed itself and i gave it away this summer for my friend to perform surgery on
my macbook pro? had it since summer... we've sent it back to apple 3 times so far, touchpad stopped, usb port stopped working, and the screen stopped getting power what do i run on it? office, photoshop (basic contrast brightness adjustment), and BLAST searching on NIH's website
I don't see what any of this has to do with what you quoted. So you got an extremely low-end system for cheaper than you can get a Mac. Great. It's not a fair comparison in the slightest though. I've worked on a PowerMac for over a decade and it's still running strong, only extremely recently did it stop getting OS updates. I could sell it for at least $100. How much do you think you could sell a 12 year old PC for? IF it was still running...
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a Mac but I have owned 6 and they have all been fantastic. What few problems I have had have been promptly solved, most of the time for free even if I was out of warranty.
We can go back and forth on circumstantial evidence all day long but in the end you would lose that argument, because Apple has the highest customer satisfaction rating of anyone. What, you think all of us just buy it for the pretty colors and then keep buying it for that? No. I use my computers a LOT. I love using Macs, I really truly feel they are better than PCs in every single way. I'm not sipping koolaid or sucking Jobs' dick, I just have an opinion that is based on experience.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
uh really, i built a 400mhz 1st geneneration celeron pc with 32mb geforce 2, dvd drive, a 60gb hd, and 512mb ram in 2000
it ran up until august when i was FORCED to throw it away, it worked fine for bw, photoshop 7, office xp (an win XP sp3 at the end)
how many times did i reformat it, once. when i went from win2000 to xp and i hated the upgrade OS option, screwed me up when i went from 95 to 98
how many viruses infected it, none (though 2 ex girlfriends did try). i ran norton systemworks 2000 until avast came along
browser, it used them all, IE 4, nutscrape navigator, opera (when you had to buy it to remove ads), opera (after it became ad free) then finally firefox (damn you adblock+ & skipscreen for spoiling me)
now that hunk of junk cost me nearly $500 (my life savings of a 10th grader) how certified was i, none. i figured if it fits, im putting it in the right place, which worked i got my A+ certification 4 months later.
by comparison my 02 graduation gift of a dell for $2000 had a 120gb hd, 128mb ati something, 2ghz p4, dvd/cdrw and 1gb ram i had problems with it from the first year onward. i sent it off and they replaced the dvdrw. then i needed a new mobo cuz it stopped working finally 20 days after my 3 year service plan died, it killed itself and i gave it away this summer for my friend to perform surgery on
my macbook pro? had it since summer... we've sent it back to apple 3 times so far, touchpad stopped, usb port stopped working, and the screen stopped getting power what do i run on it? office, photoshop (basic contrast brightness adjustment), and BLAST searching on NIH's website
I don't understand this circular reasoning. Like he already stated, he wanted something that he didn't have to tinker with. You're A+ certified. Congrats (really, no sarcasm). The average user isn't. Getting A+ certified takes time (and money). That added cost to your system is much more expensive to a lot of people.
Also, your 400mhz celeron ran for nearly a decade? Well great... but just because you can build it cheaper and have it last (which you should expect it too) doesn't mean it's what you'll want to run for an entire decade. As he already stated, most Macs are spec'd out to run for several years without having to get upgrades, reason enough for most to pay the premium. Is there no reason at all why Apple products can be resold for ridiculous amounts? I sold two 60GB Classic iPods in January for $100 each. People can resell their Macs for 40% of what they paid 4-5+ years later.
On February 16 2011 02:35 alffla wrote: yo yoyoyo so what i REALLY DONT GET IS why are designers and artists and whatever people artsy people always praising mac?
like what makes macs so much better for doing design related stuff lol
Advertising. Apple has hipsters and beginning artists convinced that Macs are better than Windows PCs for making music, drawing, editing photos, etc. when the Windows computers do the same thing just as well, if not better. I think there are 1 or 2 amazing programs that are exclusive to Macs but I don't think it's amazing enough to warrant the price tag.
Logic Studio is a good program for amateur musicians and producers I guess, but it's interface is terribly insulting to professionals and other people who use Pro Tools. :X
edit About the price though, while PCs are cheaper, does the average user have a good enough judgment to avoid trojans and shit like that and then fix the problem without the help of some scam like Geek Squad? I doubt it, a lot of people probably get fed up with viruses, not realizing their mistakes, and buy Macs.
On February 16 2011 02:35 alffla wrote: yo yoyoyo so what i REALLY DONT GET IS why are designers and artists and whatever people artsy people always praising mac?
like what makes macs so much better for doing design related stuff lol
Advertising. Apple has hipsters and beginning artists convinced that Macs are better than Windows PCs for making music, drawing, editing photos, etc. when the Windows computers do the same thing just as well, if not better. I think there are 1 or 2 amazing programs that are exclusive to Macs but I don't think it's amazing enough to warrant the price tag.
Logic Studio is a good program for amateur musicians and producers I guess, but it's interface is terribly insulting to professionals and other people who use Pro Tools. :X
edit About the price though, while PCs are cheaper, does the average user have a good enough judgment to avoid trojans and shit like that and then fix the problem without the help of some scam like Geek Squad? I doubt it, a lot of people probably get fed up with viruses, not realizing their mistakes, and buy Macs.
1 or 2? There are hundreds of Mac-only programs available to creative types. A huge majority of software available for Mac, in my experience, is superior in both functionality and UI design. Not to mention, Mac OS X itself, has a far superior UI. There are decent programs for PC, but there are a LOT more choice on the Mac side for most things.
There's a ton of posts by people who like their macs, with plenty of legitimate reasons. WHY is it that all you Mac-haters simply ignore them and insult our intelligence and claim fanboyism?
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Assuming he bought a GTX460, it actually probably perform better in gaming you know!
Everything else? Who gives a shit, you can't tell the difference between rock bottom Athlon II or one of those $1k Intel Gulftowns for normal office work.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
Dunno about the USA, but if you want a true quad core processor and a GPU that can actually handle graphically intensive games decently you're going to pay over $2000 AUD for one unless you don't mind dealing with refurbished goods.
The incorrectness of your post is palpable.
My graphics card is either superior or roughly in the same ballpark, though I honestly am not too up to date between the nVidia and ATI modern cards. Regardless, my HD 5750 does the trick quite well (Ultra everything at 30 FPS in Mac OS X, I can assume in Windows it would be about 60+FPS -- and yes, I will admit Mac OS X is at a temporary disadvantage for gaming, though running Windows is an option so I do not see that as a mark against the Mac itself by any means).
There is no incorrectness in my post. Everything I stated was either a fact or an opinion. None of it was fabricated, unlike the vast majority of misinformation in this thread about Macs. You have absolutely failed to point out ANYTHING in my post that was false, or make any counter-arguments of any kind.
Pretty unfair IMO to say Macs are expensive because you can make a crappy PC with shoddy parts for $300 and you have to pay $2000 for a really high-end professionally manufactured Mac. Apples to oranges and such. As for "can actually handle graphically intensive games", you don't need anywhere remotely near the specs you mentioned, depending I suppose on your definition of "graphically intensive".
More importantly, I didn't say "you can get a bleeding edge Mac for under $2000". But there are a ton of models of Mac that you CAN get for as little as $800, all of which will play StarCraft 2. You can also get PCs for $5000+. The allegation I was responding to was that the cheapest Mac is $2000 -- SIMPLY ABSURD.
On February 17 2011 02:40 AyeH wrote: You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes.
Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. Here
And cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot..
Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/programmers/casual users.
You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself.
edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
Sorry, but Macs are better than PCs. That is my opinion. It has nothing to do with ignorance, quite the contrary it is based on a ton of experience with many different kinds of both types of systems. And based on the fact that Macs can run Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux, while PCs can run Windows and Linux, it's a very sustainable opinion.
Most of the cases on that site I have seen before, and I find a lot of them gaudy, ugly, and bulky. Others, however, are pretty cool looking, and I would have nothing against them, but I still would not put them in the same league as Apple's design, which is world-class (not to mention more practical than the traditional tower). Once again, my taste has absolutely no relation to my computing knowledge.
Everything I said was either 100% accurate or simply an opinion, which I am entitled to.
It's funny, I always come to these threads and participate by sharing what I think is better about the Mac, and explaining all the things that are truly, factually superior about them. But no one ever argues my points. Instead, they call me ignorant, stupid, or pick on my taste.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
uh really, i built a 400mhz 1st geneneration celeron pc with 32mb geforce 2, dvd drive, a 60gb hd, and 512mb ram in 2000
it ran up until august when i was FORCED to throw it away, it worked fine for bw, photoshop 7, office xp (an win XP sp3 at the end)
how many times did i reformat it, once. when i went from win2000 to xp and i hated the upgrade OS option, screwed me up when i went from 95 to 98
how many viruses infected it, none (though 2 ex girlfriends did try). i ran norton systemworks 2000 until avast came along
browser, it used them all, IE 4, nutscrape navigator, opera (when you had to buy it to remove ads), opera (after it became ad free) then finally firefox (damn you adblock+ & skipscreen for spoiling me)
now that hunk of junk cost me nearly $500 (my life savings of a 10th grader) how certified was i, none. i figured if it fits, im putting it in the right place, which worked i got my A+ certification 4 months later.
by comparison my 02 graduation gift of a dell for $2000 had a 120gb hd, 128mb ati something, 2ghz p4, dvd/cdrw and 1gb ram i had problems with it from the first year onward. i sent it off and they replaced the dvdrw. then i needed a new mobo cuz it stopped working finally 20 days after my 3 year service plan died, it killed itself and i gave it away this summer for my friend to perform surgery on
my macbook pro? had it since summer... we've sent it back to apple 3 times so far, touchpad stopped, usb port stopped working, and the screen stopped getting power what do i run on it? office, photoshop (basic contrast brightness adjustment), and BLAST searching on NIH's website
I don't see what any of this has to do with what you quoted. So you got an extremely low-end system for cheaper than you can get a Mac. Great. It's not a fair comparison in the slightest though. I've worked on a PowerMac for over a decade and it's still running strong, only extremely recently did it stop getting OS updates. I could sell it for at least $100. How much do you think you could sell a 12 year old PC for? IF it was still running...
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a Mac but I have owned 6 and they have all been fantastic. What few problems I have had have been promptly solved, most of the time for free even if I was out of warranty.
We can go back and forth on circumstantial evidence all day long but in the end you would lose that argument, because Apple has the highest customer satisfaction rating of anyone. What, you think all of us just buy it for the pretty colors and then keep buying it for that? No. I use my computers a LOT. I love using Macs, I really truly feel they are better than PCs in every single way. I'm not sipping koolaid or sucking Jobs' dick, I just have an opinion that is based on experience.
You call other people ignorant for saying that PCs are better and then you cry about being called ignorant? That makes no sense.
Also, those cases are all much better than the cases made by Apple. World class cases by Apple? Rofl, are you serious? Lian Li, Corsair, Antec make WAY better cases than Apple in style, space, and usefulness.
PCs are used worldwide by 90% and Mac by 9%. If Mac was so great, why is it not the other way around. Numbers show that PCs are a more bang for buck deal.
Plus, Macs have nowhere near the capacity of PCs in terms of power in GPU, CPU, PSU,RAM, etc and other hardware support. And also, PCs have equaled Macs strengths in digital imaging, photoshop, etc. Also, the PC has so much more software available for it then Macs. That is inarguable.
And also, the reason Macs don't have viruses is because there are less mac users, so hackers don't care to create viruses that affect Macs since there are so few of them. That's the only reason. A simple anti-virus for a PC solves this problem.
Oh and read this. Mac and Pc Looks like Macs are "victims of cybercrime just as often as PC users"
I know that my friends who are Mac users like it because there is less chance of getting viruses, they come with better software (eg. Garage Band), they are sleaker and sexier. And they can always load Windows on them so that they can still use their PC software anyway. Only bad part seems to be the high price.
There is absolutely no reason to buy a mac unless you need the unix interface (which you don't) or have a ton of extra money to spend (which it doesn't sound like). The interface is the same (windows 7 > osx), the hardware is the same, the only difference is that the external features are nicer (macs look pretty when turned off). However, the cost of the osx operating system is simply not worth it. The reason mac's "feel" smoother is that a lot of people still use windows xp which has a ton of viruses written for it. Eventually as macs get more popular, software will be written to hack the osx operating system (and there already is). From a business standpoint, there is no reason to use a mac over a pc. For a consumer standpoint, for most people it's not worth the cost. For some people, owning the mac brand is a part of their identity. Most tech blogs follow mac with a passion and believe that jobs is the savior of technology. Jobs is an excellent marketer and you really are just buying a label when you purchase their product.
Obviously not everything mac is overpriced. The ipod is a great device and they really deserve the money they made off of it, but apple is starting to realize that they need to offer alternatives to low-budget consumers if they really want a larger share of the market http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2380286,00.asp
My graphics card is either superior or roughly in the same ballpark, though I honestly am not too up to date between the nVidia and ATI modern cards. Regardless, my HD 5750 does the trick quite well (Ultra everything at 30 FPS in Mac OS X, I can assume in Windows it would be about 60+FPS -- and yes, I will admit Mac OS X is at a temporary disadvantage for gaming, though running Windows is an option so I do not see that as a mark against the Mac itself by any means).
No, HD5750 is no where near a GTX460 1GB. Not even close. Sorry but that's you can't even justify that with "opinion" because you're actually factually incorrect.
The reason HD5750s are used in the high end iMacs is because its possibly the card with the best performance/cost/heat output at the time. iMacs have to be designed around heat output so they can't just jam any sort of video card in there.
There is no incorrectness in my post. Everything I stated was either a fact or an opinion. None of it was fabricated, unlike the vast majority of misinformation in this thread about Macs. You have absolutely failed to point out ANYTHING in my post that was false, or make any counter-arguments of any kind.
OK I'll do it for you:
Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
Wrong: You never have to deal with outsourced customer service because they aren't big enough to afford it and often bank on brand loyalty to keep customers buying their stuff, exactly how Apple does it. You buy from Antec/EVGA/Silverstone/g.skill and you generally deal with people who actually care about your situation and they're generally very good about the RMA services. No where near as good as AppleCare but good enough that its nothing more than a mere annoyance.
Just like everything else you buy, you buy stuff you know that is good. And no, it isn't more expensive that the cheap shit Antec and Corsair don't slap huge price premiums because of good consumer service.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
That's one of only two things you're right about. Awfully specific though, let me guess you ran through a checklist of what makes a iMac good and just posted that.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
The second thing you are right about.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
Wrong: $2000 is the 21" i5 750 iMac in the Apple Store in Australia. I don't know about the USA but that's how much I have to pay for a true quad core computer. No, that stuff isn't intended for HD video editing or servers, that's for the Mac Pro and the xserves.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
You get get a Phenom II and a HD6850 for $400 and it will undoubtedly outperform any current iMac in gaming.
No the hardware here isn't bad quality unless you think AMD products are going to explode after two years.
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
He made a really awful post, so did you.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
You're mostly right, but what the hell does this even mean.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
All computer parts come from the same people. Ergo they all will last the same amount of time as each other. Just like a normal computer, Macs and PCs both get DOA hardware and you can't do anything about that.
A lot of people with desktops have been using them for a long time. A lot of places still use old Pentium 4 computers that are still kicking.
Pretty unfair IMO to say Macs are expensive because you can make a crappy PC with shoddy parts for $300 and you have to pay $2000 for a really high-end professionally manufactured Mac. Apples to oranges and such. As for "can actually handle graphically intensive games", you don't need anywhere remotely near the specs you mentioned, depending I suppose on your definition of "graphically intensive".
You can't play any modern game, Just Cause 2 for example, on anything but the lowest settings with that video card because to was fairly low range when it came out.
Guess what, Macs use the exact same parts as people use in their computers. All computer shit comes from asian OEMs. There is no "Mac hardware is higher quality than self bought hardware" because they're all the same shit from guys like Foxconn, Hynix, LG, and Samsung. Most PC manufacturers are just some form of these guys and simply rebadge parts.
More importantly, I didn't say "you can get a bleeding edge Mac for under $2000". But there are a ton of models of Mac that you CAN get for as little as $800, all of which will play StarCraft 2. You can also get PCs for $5000+. The allegation I was responding to was that the cheapest Mac is $2000 -- SIMPLY ABSURD.
And those $800 Macs are awful. The solid white plastic unibody Macbooks are simply there for the same reason many manufactures wedge stupidly underspecced and overpriced laptops between more solid products - its to make people go the extra mile and spend more money on the better product, which in this case is the Macbook Pro.
Either way you need a "bleeding edge" iMac if you want to play games on an acceptable quality (medium shaders for example). If you can't you might as well just get a console, which is an entirely valid and probably the smartest idea because PC gaming is basically filled with console ports. And you can use the Mac's screen to play the console, its actually a perfectly fine idea but make no mistake that its hardly an option if you want to play modern computer games on it.
On February 16 2011 02:35 alffla wrote: yo yoyoyo so what i REALLY DONT GET IS why are designers and artists and whatever people artsy people always praising mac?
like what makes macs so much better for doing design related stuff lol
Advertising. Apple has hipsters and beginning artists convinced that Macs are better than Windows PCs for making music, drawing, editing photos, etc. when the Windows computers do the same thing just as well, if not better. I think there are 1 or 2 amazing programs that are exclusive to Macs but I don't think it's amazing enough to warrant the price tag.
Logic Studio is a good program for amateur musicians and producers I guess, but it's interface is terribly insulting to professionals and other people who use Pro Tools. :X
edit About the price though, while PCs are cheaper, does the average user have a good enough judgment to avoid trojans and shit like that and then fix the problem without the help of some scam like Geek Squad? I doubt it, a lot of people probably get fed up with viruses, not realizing their mistakes, and buy Macs.
1 or 2? There are hundreds of Mac-only programs available to creative types. A huge majority of software available for Mac, in my experience, is superior in both functionality and UI design. Not to mention, Mac OS X itself, has a far superior UI. There are decent programs for PC, but there are a LOT more choice on the Mac side for most things.
There's a ton of posts by people who like their macs, with plenty of legitimate reasons. WHY is it that all you Mac-haters simply ignore them and insult our intelligence and claim fanboyism?
i in terms of UI, thats the most subjective thing..i've tried using macs before it just seems like its kind of reversed windows. like how the menu bar is on the top instead of the start menu along the bottom for windows? or its kind of combined..
so say if i just use photoshop mostly and not any other 'exclusive mac' programs then there's not much reason to get a mac over a pc right
On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote: Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information.
You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes.
Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. Here
And cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot..
Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/programmers/casual users.
You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself.
edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote: Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information.
You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes.
Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. Here
And cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot..
Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/programmers/casual users.
You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself.
edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
Just a comment: Mac is awesome for coding.
Mac may be awesome for coding but a PC can do the same job a bit better much cheaper! I just can't justify the price tags on the Macs.
On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote: Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information.
You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes.
Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. Here
And cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot..
Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/programmers/casual users.
You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself.
edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
Just a comment: Mac is awesome for coding.
Mac may be awesome for coding but a PC can do the same job a bit better much cheaper! I just can't justify the price tags on the Macs.
Why do you assume that? Mac OS comes bundled with many more developing tools than Windows, from stuff like XCode which is just the best IDE for C/C++/Objective C in existence. and stuff like Vi, Emacs, etc. from its Unix nature. Not to mention that it makes a much more solid (web) server than any Windows could possibly wish.
On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote:Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support.
You are misinformed and incorrect. All you have to know how to do is burn a CD, boot from it, insert your retail OS X disc and install from it. Then use 1 nicely written utility once the installation is done to install some kexts (basically drivers). Thats it, and everything works fine. There are also multiple large communities dedicated to it, so chances are any piece of hardware you have is supported, and any problems you run into can be solved by a forum search.
My graphics card is either superior or roughly in the same ballpark, though I honestly am not too up to date between the nVidia and ATI modern cards. Regardless, my HD 5750 does the trick quite well (Ultra everything at 30 FPS in Mac OS X, I can assume in Windows it would be about 60+FPS -- and yes, I will admit Mac OS X is at a temporary disadvantage for gaming, though running Windows is an option so I do not see that as a mark against the Mac itself by any means).
No, HD5750 is no where near a GTX460 1GB. Not even close. Sorry but that's you can't even justify that with "opinion" because you're actually factually incorrect.
How can I be factually incorrect when I made it completely clear that I wasn't entirely sure? I am factually correct about what my card is capable of.
Wrong: You never have to deal with outsourced customer service because they aren't big enough to afford it and often bank on brand loyalty to keep customers buying their stuff, exactly how Apple does it. You buy from Antec/EVGA/Silverstone/g.skill and you generally deal with people who actually care about your situation and they're generally very good about the RMA services. No where near as good as AppleCare but good enough that its nothing more than a mere annoyance.
I can't really decipher what you're trying to say here, or how it causes me to be wrong. I have owned PCs from various manufacturers and yes the bulk of them do use outsourced customer service... And who's not big enough to "afford" outsourced service? I have no clue what you're trying to say.. outsourced service is clearly inexpensive and inferior to local customer service. Bottom line, I've dealt with damn near all the different tech supports in the industry and nothing holds a candle to Apple's. That's an extremely important point to most people, whether it matters to you or not.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
That's one of only two things you're right about. Awfully specific though, let me guess you ran through a checklist of what makes a iMac good and just posted that.
What lol? That is a huge list of things, not one. And it is the meat of my post. Yeah, those are all things that are good about the iMac that you can't dispute. Your point? You fail to dispute any of my claims. You make NO SENSE.
Wrong: $2000 is the 21" i5 750 iMac in the Apple Store in Australia. I don't know about the USA but that's how much I have to pay for a true quad core computer. No, that stuff isn't intended for HD video editing or servers, that's for the Mac Pro and the xserves.
I'm not looking at Australia. I don't live in Australia. It's not relevant to the discussion. I'm sorry you get gouged because of your location, but it's an entirely different topic of discussion. What I said was still accurate, not wrong. And yes, actually, you're wrong, Mac Pro and XServes ARE high end Macs mainly marketed to HD video editing and servers.. hence my point.
And you keep bringing up this bullshit "true quad core" requirement. That is overkill for most tasks, and it's completely unfair as you are still comparing this $2000 machine to a $350 PC. That is a bullshit comparison. I am telling you right now, you can get a functional mac for $800. Quit making claims that you need to spend 2 grand, because you're simply flat out wrong.
Yeah you can get a Mac for 2 grand. You can get a Mac or a PC for 5 grand as well. As I stated REPEATEDLY, I was addressing the absolute BULLSHIT claim that you can't get a Mac for under 2 grand. You can't argue that, without being wrong.
You get get a Phenom II and a HD6850 for $400 and it will undoubtedly outperform any current iMac in gaming.
No the hardware here isn't bad quality unless you think AMD products are going to explode after two years.
Having made PCs myself, I know for a fact this is simply naive. To make a machine that cheap, you're going to be buying some shoddy parts. I'm not talking about the CPU. It could be the PSU, RAM, Mobo, hard drive, anything. You get what you pay for, that is a well agreed upon general truth in the PC building world.
You can't play any modern game, Just Cause 2 for example, on anything but the lowest settings with that video card because to was fairly low range when it came out.
My card is much more powerful than the one listed as the minimum requirement for Just Cause 2. I don't play the game so I can't speak from experience, but going by the data there is absolutely no reason for what you said to hold any bearing. It should run absolutely fine. If you want to make a claim then provide a benchmark or something, otherwise there's absolutely nothing to support your claim that it wouldn't run.
Guess what, Macs use the exact same parts as people use in their computers. All computer shit comes from asian OEMs. There is no "Mac hardware is higher quality than self bought hardware" because they're all the same shit from guys like Foxconn, Hynix, LG, and Samsung. Most PC manufacturers are just some form of these guys and simply rebadge parts.
Macs use the parts they use. As a PC you have MANY choices of parts to use, some of them have good reputations, others are known to be poor quality. To say they all use the exact same parts is blatantly false. It doesn't mean the poor quality ones will always give everyone problems, but Apple DOES use parts that are considered high quality, and that would cost significantly more than the parts in your $350 PC if you were to make a PC out of them.
And those $800 Macs are awful. The solid white plastic unibody Macbooks are simply there for the same reason many manufactures wedge stupidly underspecced and overpriced laptops between more solid products - its to make people go the extra mile and spend more money on the better product, which in this case is the Macbook Pro.
I don't think they are awful. They are intended for a different purpose. There are plenty of people who do not need a powerhouse computer, they just want to browse the Internet and listen to music. Those people would probably be able to do so just fine with a PC, but that doesn't really account for all of the great benefits of having a Mac. To many people, the ease of use, automatic management of maintenance tasks and backing up, and yes, style, will overcome the price difference (which becomes quite small when you realize how much more the Mac will sell for used).
I don't see what your point is. Yeah, I'm pretty sure anyone would prefer a MacBook Pro to a MacBook if I had an extra $1200 lying around. Again you fail to use any logic, circumventing the point you're quoting to make a random jab at a corporation for trying to make money. You would give them even more shit if they didn't have those $800 models, and then the "you can't get a Mac for under 2 grand!" bullshit would actually be true.
Either way you need a "bleeding edge" iMac if you want to play games on an acceptable quality (medium shaders for example). If you can't you might as well just get a console, which is an entirely valid and probably the smartest idea because PC gaming is basically filled with console ports. And you can use the Mac's screen to play the console, its actually a perfectly fine idea but make no mistake that its hardly an option if you want to play modern computer games on it.
Like hell you do. You pulled this out of your ass. I was running StarCraft 2 on my 5 year old iMac until I got this one. Stop even saying anything if you can't prove it, because EVERY SINGLE THING YOU HAVE SAID is either a flat out lie or completely irrelevant to any of the points I made.
On February 17 2011 12:02 alffla wrote: i in terms of UI, thats the most subjective thing..i've tried using macs before it just seems like its kind of reversed windows. like how the menu bar is on the top instead of the start menu along the bottom for windows? or its kind of combined..
so say if i just use photoshop mostly and not any other 'exclusive mac' programs then there's not much reason to get a mac over a pc right
cuz it just looks and works teh same to me
Yes it's partially subjective, but there is a reason a huge amount of the people who know what good design means use Macs. Additionally, studies have been done to see which interface is more intuitive to people who have never used a computer and OS X comes out every time.
Here is one article that highlights Windows 7 vs OS X user interface, and OS X comes out ahead in most cases. http://www.infoworld.com/d/windows/ui-challenge-windows-7-vs-mac-os-x-915 This is just one example, there's stuff like this all over the place and when you compare them directly it's very difficult to find that OS X doesn't do at least some things much much better.
I've listed a bajillion reasons that Macs are better than PCs. No, UI is not the only reason to get a Mac over a PC that I listed, it's just the only thing you quoted. If you find all of the things I mentioned don't matter to you, then by all means, get a PC, you will save some money in the short-term.
On February 17 2011 14:04 AyeH wrote: Mac may be awesome for coding but a PC can do the same job a bit better much cheaper! I just can't justify the price tags on the Macs.
It can't do it ANY better. That argument doesn't hold any water. Mac can do EVERYTHING PC can do EXACTLY as well, if not better, since you can run Windows natively. A little cheaper? Well, up front, yeah, I've never disputed it, just that it's worth it.
OS X comes with way more coding tools than Windows does pre-installed. Also, if you are interested in iPhone coding at all (easily the fastest growing code-related industry), suck it up, you have no choice (and yeah that's because of capitalistic bullshit but hey what can you do?)
On February 17 2011 14:37 blue` wrote: Don't really want to get into it, but
On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote:Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support.
You are misinformed and incorrect. All you have to know how to do is burn a CD, boot from it, insert your retail OS X disc and install from it. Then use 1 nicely written utility once the installation is done to install some kexts (basically drivers). Thats it, and everything works fine. There are also multiple large communities dedicated to it, so chances are any piece of hardware you have is supported, and any problems you run into can be solved by a forum search.
I'm not misinformed or incorrect. I've used it myself. If you don't really want to get into it, don't call me a liar. If you're going to be a dick, at least back it up.
It's not as simple as you say unless you purposely buy 100% compatible parts, and while things may have gotten better since I used it, it is still a HACK that is against the terms of service, it takes more time and knowledge to use, and has no customer support (no doubt you will point out that the community will help you out, but the community is often quite unhelpful). You will also get updates slower.
I'm not saying it's evil or worthless or anything, but it is NOT for your average consumer.
in my country its quite simple like to edit video, music/sound? do you like to design ? then buy a mac. I dont have a mac I have a dell and it works pretty good. These are some things that make a mac very attractive to people that have little knowledge of video, sound editing and design.
My story: HARDCORE windows fan. i bashed on mac whenever i could. then i met a beautiful girl, we started dating, i used her laptop a lot. mac os x is actually cool, and a lot of the macros like expose and the likes are pretty cool and actually useful.
i bought a MBP: so...i bought a MBP 13" after 16 years of hardcore windows (ages 7-21). windows was pretty much my love, i played way too many games, did way too much hacking, etc. but god, the MBP looked nice, OMG SIX HOURS OF BATTERY LIFE!!!!!11111 ONE ONE ONE TWO SIX. lol. ok no, but all that aside, it was like, yeah i want this. i had the money, so why not. buh bye $1300. it was great though, i loved having spaces and expose. it was awesome. but then i came to the realization that i just paid $1300 for something that can't play CS:S, SC2, or any current/last gen game. seriously? that annoys me, and that's why i will remain a big mac hater despite owning one. its my last mac despite the fact that it hasn't given me any issues, and it is built like a rock. great battery life is great, great quality is great. however, think about this, $600 would have bought me a much better laptop, and in two years if it broke or was out of warranty, i could jsut spend another $600 and stay with current tech. w/e.
regarding hackint0sh/installing OS X on "PCs": before i ever bought that MBP, i tried it out on my desktop a la hackint0sh and the various distros out there. it was a pain to get it working, and once i did, i just didn't like it. os x + logitech G5 = super weird feeling, it just didn't mix. expose, etc was cool and all, but i just didn't like it. also, MAC OS X doesn't exactly work on every computer. as i understand it, 90% of MACs don't use motherboards with "BIOS" they have some crap called "UEFI" which i don't completely understand, except for the fact that it really makes installing OS X super difficult in some situations. for example, my super popular ASUS P5Q motherboard is not compatible with hackint0sh unless i install a hacked bios on my mobo, umm...no thanks. i suppose if you want, you can buy some hardware that you know is supported, and make a hackintosh build. all that aside, it is illegal, but w/e.
my linux experience: my friend in middle/high school was a huge linux geek. i didn't understand him then...i used to "modify" xboxes back in the day, and i bought one from a pawn shop, fixed it, and sold it to him so he could fulfill his linux desires on the xbox. the xbox was awesome cuz it rank linux, and also allowed me to legally obtain modchips with the excuse that my intention was to run linux on client's xboxes (of course that was my real intention ).
then, last year, a friend of mine gave me an old tablet with a celeron. he was the IT guy or something at a university. so, naturally, the windows install had a password, and the CD rom was broke. easiest solution? run a live usb or usb install. i chose ubuntu. while it wasn't the best thing ever, it worked, and i was in college so i needed something to use (this was before i got my MBP). seriously though, linux is super powerful and robust. i currently run a server at home for personal use, i'm on ubuntu now, and i just installed linux on a laptop i was ready to throw out. now i dont' have to throw out a perfectly good laptop because of the "aged" hardware. all of that aside though, i found all the cool screen macros/eye candy on ubuntu, and it is faster and easier to install than MAC OS X on non-sanctioned hardware. i love it. it has "spaces", "expose" and way more.
on music/video development, office, industry software: unfortunately, this is one thing linux lacks and OS x and windows have an advantage with. office software is just leaps and bounds better on win/os x. video and photo editing? win/os x both have the adobe creative suite. windows however seems to have the majority of CAD software and 3D modeling software. but what about music? the notion that musician's and video editors should choose MAC is as old and lame as the theory that the universe revolves around the earth. seriously? most people now use software that is written for both apple and win. it even appears that games are slowly being released for mac (source engine games, SC2, etc).
i'm a scientist and i do research. i wish i could tell the post-doc i work with to switch over to linux. but wow, it seems that all of the software that is extremely important to us is mostly on win/MAC.
PC laptops: my luck with PC laptops is terrible. i had a compaq 10 years ago that died randomly. i had a toshiba that fried itself because celerons are too hot. i had an HP too, and man was it annoying to deal with. i dealt with the same issues on my HP too, overheating, power connectors getting loose, shitty battery, the works. i seriously can't stand PC laptops. haven't had one that lasted more than 2 years. but i'd still choose them over MACs, and i'll explain why.
prices: well, you already know my stance on prices. unless your program ONLY runs on MAC, you'd be a fool to buy one. or you're just one of those people that have more money than brains. or you "NEED" 6 hours battery life, but seriously, who needs 6 hours? i've had a MAC laptop, desktop, a PC laptop and desktop, i've had MAC OS X on my "PC", i've used ubuntu, and my final verdict is that i'm going to stick with PCs. the rate at which our technology advances is ridiculous. you'd be a fool to pay $1300 for a brick that might get you laid at your college campus. i'd rather buy a $650 every two years than a macbook pro for $1300 every 4 years. mac desktops are just a joke and not even worth mentioning. the performance:price ratio is ridiculous. i like my mac, but i don't recommend it to anyone unless they have deep pockets and like to pay convenience fees (essentially what you get when you pay for a mac).
My graphics card is either superior or roughly in the same ballpark, though I honestly am not too up to date between the nVidia and ATI modern cards. Regardless, my HD 5750 does the trick quite well (Ultra everything at 30 FPS in Mac OS X, I can assume in Windows it would be about 60+FPS -- and yes, I will admit Mac OS X is at a temporary disadvantage for gaming, though running Windows is an option so I do not see that as a mark against the Mac itself by any means).
No, HD5750 is no where near a GTX460 1GB. Not even close. Sorry but that's you can't even justify that with "opinion" because you're actually factually incorrect.
How can I be factually incorrect when I made it completely clear that I wasn't entirely sure? I am factually correct about what my card is capable of.
Wrong: You never have to deal with outsourced customer service because they aren't big enough to afford it and often bank on brand loyalty to keep customers buying their stuff, exactly how Apple does it. You buy from Antec/EVGA/Silverstone/g.skill and you generally deal with people who actually care about your situation and they're generally very good about the RMA services. No where near as good as AppleCare but good enough that its nothing more than a mere annoyance.
I can't really decipher what you're trying to say here, or how it causes me to be wrong. I have owned PCs from various manufacturers and yes the bulk of them do use outsourced customer service... And who's not big enough to "afford" outsourced service? I have no clue what you're trying to say.. outsourced service is clearly inexpensive and inferior to local customer service. Bottom line, I've dealt with damn near all the different tech supports in the industry and nothing holds a candle to Apple's. That's an extremely important point to most people, whether it matters to you or not.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
That's one of only two things you're right about. Awfully specific though, let me guess you ran through a checklist of what makes a iMac good and just posted that.
What lol? That is a huge list of things, not one. And it is the meat of my post. Yeah, those are all things that are good about the iMac that you can't dispute. Your point? You fail to dispute any of my claims. You make NO SENSE.
Wrong: $2000 is the 21" i5 750 iMac in the Apple Store in Australia. I don't know about the USA but that's how much I have to pay for a true quad core computer. No, that stuff isn't intended for HD video editing or servers, that's for the Mac Pro and the xserves.
I'm not looking at Australia. I don't live in Australia. It's not relevant to the discussion. I'm sorry you get gouged because of your location, but it's an entirely different topic of discussion. What I said was still accurate, not wrong. And yes, actually, you're wrong, Mac Pro and XServes ARE high end Macs mainly marketed to HD video editing and servers.. hence my point.
And you keep bringing up this bullshit "true quad core" requirement. That is overkill for most tasks, and it's completely unfair as you are still comparing this $2000 machine to a $350 PC. That is a bullshit comparison. I am telling you right now, you can get a functional mac for $800. Quit making claims that you need to spend 2 grand, because you're simply flat out wrong.
Yeah you can get a Mac for 2 grand. You can get a Mac or a PC for 5 grand as well. As I stated REPEATEDLY, I was addressing the absolute BULLSHIT claim that you can't get a Mac for under 2 grand. You can't argue that, without being wrong.
You get get a Phenom II and a HD6850 for $400 and it will undoubtedly outperform any current iMac in gaming.
No the hardware here isn't bad quality unless you think AMD products are going to explode after two years.
Having made PCs myself, I know for a fact this is simply naive. To make a machine that cheap, you're going to be buying some shoddy parts. I'm not talking about the CPU. It could be the PSU, RAM, Mobo, hard drive, anything. You get what you pay for, that is a well agreed upon general truth in the PC building world.
You can't play any modern game, Just Cause 2 for example, on anything but the lowest settings with that video card because to was fairly low range when it came out.
My card is much more powerful than the one listed as the minimum requirement for Just Cause 2. I don't play the game so I can't speak from experience, but going by the data there is absolutely no reason for what you said to hold any bearing. It should run absolutely fine. If you want to make a claim then provide a benchmark or something, otherwise there's absolutely nothing to support your claim that it wouldn't run.
Guess what, Macs use the exact same parts as people use in their computers. All computer shit comes from asian OEMs. There is no "Mac hardware is higher quality than self bought hardware" because they're all the same shit from guys like Foxconn, Hynix, LG, and Samsung. Most PC manufacturers are just some form of these guys and simply rebadge parts.
Macs use the parts they use. As a PC you have MANY choices of parts to use, some of them have good reputations, others are known to be poor quality. To say they all use the exact same parts is blatantly false. It doesn't mean the poor quality ones will always give everyone problems, but Apple DOES use parts that are considered high quality, and that would cost significantly more than the parts in your $350 PC if you were to make a PC out of them.
And those $800 Macs are awful. The solid white plastic unibody Macbooks are simply there for the same reason many manufactures wedge stupidly underspecced and overpriced laptops between more solid products - its to make people go the extra mile and spend more money on the better product, which in this case is the Macbook Pro.
I don't think they are awful. They are intended for a different purpose. There are plenty of people who do not need a powerhouse computer, they just want to browse the Internet and listen to music. Those people would probably be able to do so just fine with a PC, but that doesn't really account for all of the great benefits of having a Mac. To many people, the ease of use, automatic management of maintenance tasks and backing up, and yes, style, will overcome the price difference (which becomes quite small when you realize how much more the Mac will sell for used).
I don't see what your point is. Yeah, I'm pretty sure anyone would prefer a MacBook Pro to a MacBook if I had an extra $1200 lying around. Again you fail to use any logic, circumventing the point you're quoting to make a random jab at a corporation for trying to make money. You would give them even more shit if they didn't have those $800 models, and then the "you can't get a Mac for under 2 grand!" bullshit would actually be true.
Either way you need a "bleeding edge" iMac if you want to play games on an acceptable quality (medium shaders for example). If you can't you might as well just get a console, which is an entirely valid and probably the smartest idea because PC gaming is basically filled with console ports. And you can use the Mac's screen to play the console, its actually a perfectly fine idea but make no mistake that its hardly an option if you want to play modern computer games on it.
Like hell you do. You pulled this out of your ass. I was running StarCraft 2 on my 5 year old iMac until I got this one. Stop even saying anything if you can't prove it, because EVERY SINGLE THING YOU HAVE SAID is either a flat out lie or completely irrelevant to any of the points I made.
On February 17 2011 12:02 alffla wrote: i in terms of UI, thats the most subjective thing..i've tried using macs before it just seems like its kind of reversed windows. like how the menu bar is on the top instead of the start menu along the bottom for windows? or its kind of combined..
so say if i just use photoshop mostly and not any other 'exclusive mac' programs then there's not much reason to get a mac over a pc right
cuz it just looks and works teh same to me
Yes it's partially subjective, but there is a reason a huge amount of the people who know what good design means use Macs. Additionally, studies have been done to see which interface is more intuitive to people who have never used a computer and OS X comes out every time.
Here is one article that highlights Windows 7 vs OS X user interface, and OS X comes out ahead in most cases. http://www.infoworld.com/d/windows/ui-challenge-windows-7-vs-mac-os-x-915 This is just one example, there's stuff like this all over the place and when you compare them directly it's very difficult to find that OS X doesn't do at least some things much much better.
I've listed a bajillion reasons that Macs are better than PCs. No, UI is not the only reason to get a Mac over a PC that I listed, it's just the only thing you quoted. If you find all of the things I mentioned don't matter to you, then by all means, get a PC, you will save some money in the short-term.
On February 17 2011 14:04 AyeH wrote: Mac may be awesome for coding but a PC can do the same job a bit better much cheaper! I just can't justify the price tags on the Macs.
It can't do it ANY better. That argument doesn't hold any water. Mac can do EVERYTHING PC can do EXACTLY as well, if not better, since you can run Windows natively. A little cheaper? Well, up front, yeah, I've never disputed it, just that it's worth it.
OS X comes with way more coding tools than Windows does pre-installed. Also, if you are interested in iPhone coding at all (easily the fastest growing code-related industry), suck it up, you have no choice (and yeah that's because of capitalistic bullshit but hey what can you do?)
On February 17 2011 14:37 blue` wrote: Don't really want to get into it, but
On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote:Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support.
You are misinformed and incorrect. All you have to know how to do is burn a CD, boot from it, insert your retail OS X disc and install from it. Then use 1 nicely written utility once the installation is done to install some kexts (basically drivers). Thats it, and everything works fine. There are also multiple large communities dedicated to it, so chances are any piece of hardware you have is supported, and any problems you run into can be solved by a forum search.
I'm not misinformed or incorrect. I've used it myself. If you don't really want to get into it, don't call me a liar. If you're going to be a dick, at least back it up.
It's not as simple as you say unless you purposely buy 100% compatible parts, and while things may have gotten better since I used it, it is still a HACK that is against the terms of service, it takes more time and knowledge to use, and has no customer support (no doubt you will point out that the community will help you out, but the community is often quite unhelpful). You will also get updates slower.
I'm not saying it's evil or worthless or anything, but it is NOT for your average consumer.
1) You're right GTX 460 >> 5750 2) You're right about getting a MAC for $800, that's an awfully expensive computer to just youtube/email/wordprocess 3) But for $800 i can get a laptop that performs better. There are dozens of benchmarks that show that specs do matter when it comes to photoshop, etc. Don't even get me started on After Effects, do you know CPU intensive that is? There is no way anything at the apple store that costs under $2k will let you edit 1080p video with effects and render those effects in a decent amount of time. The fact is, Apple can't compete with Windows/PCs in terms of price:performance. 4) No, to build a PC that cheap you don't need to buy "shoddy parts". Look up slickdeals.net, profit, thank me later. 5) Don't pretend like Steve Jobs has a special manufacturer that manufactures shit for Apple. If it makes you feel better about overpaying for your stuff, sure assume that's the case, but its not. Apple uses that same mobo manufacturers that PC makes use. Asus, foxconn, msi, etc. They also use the same hard drive manufacturers (oh by the way, how does your butthole feel after paying $350 for a 128 gb SSD or $800 for a 256 gb SSD?). I think a 6 GBPS 256 GB SSD costs $400 on newegg? So you're paying like $400 to a "Genius" to swap out your hdd? cool story bro. Oh wait, you want 8 gb memory instead of 4 gb, can you open your butthole so i can take $400? the only thing that might be worth it on MACs is the damn RGD-LED screens. Seriously though, the only areas where MACs might differ, is the case, trackpad, keyboard, and screen (?). The rest of your crap is made by the same manufacturers of my desktop PC parts. I dare you to go open up your damn MBP or w/e and look inside. The HDD/ram/etc are probably available on newegg. 6) I have a MBP 13" that i bought last year, it can't play SC2 on medium settings. LOL. $1300 down the toilet. I could have bought any other laptop and it'd probably play SC2 fine...but not my MBP. Won't play L4D2 either, or a source game at higher than 20 fps. Which reminds me, the source engine came out in like 2005 or something. Damn. 7) No MAC can't do everything PC can. CAD software? Industry specific software? In science, we have very limited funding, so we don't go blowing off money on MACs, we buy PCs. As a result, software for our instruments is written for Windows. Simple.
Yourwhiteshadow, you're entitled to your opinion and you seem to have reached it at least partially logically (your Mac CAN play CS:S though, NATIVELY IN MAC OS X, and for the things that's not true of, you can still run Windows). Then you go off and call everyone who buys a mac a "fool" multiple times, despite listing a ton of reasons why Macs are better. That's not the way to have a constructive conversation.
On February 17 2011 18:42 telfire wrote: Yourwhiteshadow, you're entitled to your opinion and you seem to have reached it at least partially logically (your Mac CAN play CS:S though, NATIVELY IN MAC OS X, and for the things that's not true of, you can still run Windows). Then you go off and call everyone who buys a mac a "fool" multiple times, despite listing a ton of reasons why Macs are better. That's not the way to have a constructive conversation.
I've tried to play CS:S natively, it sucks. Its just really terrible, can't play L4D2 or TF2 either with decent settings. I mean, even on the lower settings, I can't get higher than 40 fps. My computer from 2004 was able to play CS:S at a decent resolution with decent settings. I just don't understand. If it makes you feel better, I'm a fool too for giving into the MAC hype. One of the main reasons I bought it was because my GF had one, and my best friend had one. I thought it'd be cool. But honestly, if we want to be constructive, we're better off buying faster hardware.
Also, for me this is a little touchy subject. I run a charity where I refurbish computers that are donated, and I donate them to kids who need them. I don't think people realize how blessed we are to even have computers. A lot of people just don't own their own computers, plain and simple. It hurts me to see people go get MACs, and then trash them later on because there isn't anything else to do with them. Yah, there are *nix distros for PowerPC, but the processors are like dinosaurs. I can't refurb those for kids. Even in 5 years, if I want to refurb an Apple computer, I'm going to have way more issues because of the EFI or w/e. But my main point, is that we have the option to choose, and yet we don't realize most people don't even have the option.
On February 17 2011 18:42 telfire wrote: Yourwhiteshadow, you're entitled to your opinion and you seem to have reached it at least partially logically (your Mac CAN play CS:S though, NATIVELY IN MAC OS X, and for the things that's not true of, you can still run Windows). Then you go off and call everyone who buys a mac a "fool" multiple times, despite listing a ton of reasons why Macs are better. That's not the way to have a constructive conversation.
I've tried to play CS:S natively, it sucks. Its just really terrible, can't play L4D2 or TF2 either with decent settings. I mean, even on the lower settings, I can't get higher than 40 fps. My computer from 2004 was able to play CS:S at a decent resolution with decent settings. I just don't understand. If it makes you feel better, I'm a fool too for giving into the MAC hype. One of the main reasons I bought it was because my GF had one, and my best friend had one. I thought it'd be cool. But honestly, if we want to be constructive, we're better off buying faster hardware.
Also, for me this is a little touchy subject. I run a charity where I refurbish computers that are donated, and I donate them to kids who need them. I don't think people realize how blessed we are to even have computers. A lot of people just don't own their own computers, plain and simple. It hurts me to see people go get MACs, and then trash them later on because there isn't anything else to do with them. Yah, there are *nix distros for PowerPC, but the processors are like dinosaurs. I can't refurb those for kids. Even in 5 years, if I want to refurb an Apple computer, I'm going to have way more issues because of the EFI or w/e. But my main point, is that we have the option to choose, and yet we don't realize most people don't even have the option.
There is no MAC, there is no reason to capitalize it, it is a Mac. It is short for Macintosh. It is and was never MAC. This is a minor issue, but a pet peeve of mine and just one example of how ignorant you are on the subject. Ignorance is not a crime, but having a loud pronounced opinion and stating that anyone who disagrees with it is a fool is just pure douchebaggery.
For one, 40FPS is fine, not even close to "really terrible"... The human eye can't distinguish beyond 30, so 40 is fine and while more obviously shows better performance, that is FINE to play games with. You can get Macs that will get way more than that. The point of a computer is WHAT IT IS CAPABLE OF, and artificial numbers being higher is meaningless to the average computer user. The important thing is how it behaves, and Mac OS X is far better than Windows IMO.
Anyways, if you RUN WINDOWS you will get 100% native performance on ANY game. Do you not even realize this? You can run Windows NATIVELY on any Intel Mac, and it will perform as good or better than equivalent speed PC. So you went from "can't even play it" to plays it "just terribly" and now I'm telling you that you can run it at 100% speed that a PC could. Care to change your story again?
If people are trashing their Mac they are losing out. The things resell MUCH better than PCs do. PCs do not even last nearly as long as Macs on average, in my experience a PC lasts till it dies and then you replace it. Rarely is an old PC worth repairing unless you just have the parts lying around anyway. A Mac will just keep on going, 15 years or so most of the time. Yes, the technology gets better and makes the old ones look pretty poor, this is every bit as true for PCs as well, a very old PC is going to be very slow trying to do any modern tasks. That's just how technology works, you can't hold it against Mac if you're not going to hold it against PC.
Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion as I said, but don't be a douchebag about it. I have an opinion to, and I am absolutely not a fool. My opinion is educated, and backed with tons of reasoning. I have used both types of systems extensively and I massively prefer this one.
As for your little anecdote about how fortunate we are, it's irrelevant. I know people will use their emotions instead of their brain and think me a horrible person for saying it, but there being poor people in the world has absolutely no bearing, affect, or relevance to my computer choice. And claiming you can't refurb a Mac is absolutely ludicrous, Macs are far far FAR better for that purpose as I have repeatedly stated... They hold their resale value for a good reason.
What would you rather have, a car that can go 500 miles per hour but doesn't pass safety, breaks after a while, and requires reading a manual to operate, or a car that can go 450 miles per hour and is drop dead simple to use, lasts a long time, and resells for more used? Chances are, you'll never max out the speed anyway. I wouldn't blame anyone who wanted the fast car, but for most people the slower one would be a much better choice because it is better designed in other ways. Speed is not even close to the only aspect people look at when buying a car. Likewise, Macs have many benefits that are not bleeding edge performance and 16 core processing, which is required by literally nothing, and very few programs even benefit slightly from.
On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote: Grats on building a cheap budget PC that will last you a year or two. I'm excited for you. Really. I hope nothing goes wrong with it though, it would really suck to have to deal with some idiot in India whose name is John (yeah, right) and can't speak much English.
But personally I want a computer that will last me 5 years and then resell for a good amount. I want a computer that runs a logical operating system. I want a computer that, if it breaks, I can get fixed for free by extremely helpful and friendly people. I want a computer that can run EVERY modern OS, WITHOUT hacks. I want a computer that is designed well. I want to NEVER worry about overheating. I want it to be very, very quiet. I want it to be all-in-one and extremely portable, but still have a huge monitor with an INSANELY good resolution. I want a computer that automagically backs my shit up, and makes every aspect of computer maintenance extremely easy or automatic. I want to never really worry about viruses, despite the fact that a few do exist for the platform, they are simply not an issue to the average consumer (conversely, Windows users MUST take precautions if they wish to remain malware-free). I want all of this without having to waste any of my own time constructing it. I am a designer, not a manufacturer or engineer, and my time is worth more than my money.
No offense but all your "why not"s are extremely ignorant. Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support. Why not buy a Mac case? Because you CAN'T. They aren't publicly available and most of them use extremely customized form factors, you can't just stuff PC parts in them. Hard to believe it's cooler looking? In my opinion, no PC case is even remotely close to as well designed, including looks, and cooling systems.
You checked the "Mac website" (it's the Apple website btw, Mac is just one product, but I am at least glad you didn't call it a MAC) at some random time point that was at least 10 years ago, and I doubt even then that was the case. Chances are you simply didn't actually do any research and are making a claim out of your ass. There are MANY macs below $2000 and have been for many years. In fact a $2000 Mac is very damn near the BEST Mac you can possibly buy, save for ridiculously high-end stuff intended for HD video editing or servers.
I HIGHLY doubt your $350 craputer performs better than my mac. Do you have ANY evidence to back that up or you just blowing more shit out your ass?
Everything you said is complete horse shit with nothing to back it up, but it's ok, because you said you're not here to bang Macs. Just to call the people who buy them stupid.
Bottom line, I've used both. Macs are better, period, inarguably. They are a little bit more upfront, and you will easily make that back when you sell it for a much higher price than you would ever get for a used PC. The OS is (in my opinion) hugely superior in most ways, and you can run Windows 100% natively if you need or want to (benchmarks have proven that the Mac is one of the fastest performing PCs for Windows). No amount of money you spend on a PC will make up for all of the things that are better about the Mac.
Yes, building your own PC is going to be somewhat cheaper. It's also going to take a lot of time, and unless you work at McDonald's that's going to push the price over the edge. And, unless you have been doing it for a while, your workmanship quality WILL be lower, and your PC will have a much shorter lifespan on average than if you buy from a reputable manufacturer.
It is insane how much ignorance people display about this topic. It is so very clear that the vast majority of you have made up your mind without ANY real information.
You can't tell people that they are being ignorant when you flat out state that Macs are better than PCs. Also, you can get the same specs that are on a Mac on a regular PC laptop and there will be no difference, except in the operation system. Building a computer takes less than an hour if you don't count installing the OS. For me, I can put together a computer in twenty minutes.
Also, you think Mac cases are cool? You don't know much about computers in general then. Check these out. Here
And cooling? You can't water cool a Mac last time I checked. It's just limited to fans. My sister has a MacBook Pro 17" from 2009 and she says her macbook burned her sheets because it got so hot..
Macs are good for designers/artists/casual users. PCs are good for gamers/programmers/casual users.
You like Macs mainly because you are a designer and that is understandable. Other people like me prefer PCs because they are gamers. But for you to state that Macs are inarguably better than Macs is ignorance it itself.
edit: Oh I forgot. You can't even pull out the batteries on a macbook pro. You have to pay for all your repairs after a year too unless you get lucky.
Just a comment: Mac is awesome for coding.
Mac may be awesome for coding but a PC can do the same job a bit better much cheaper! I just can't justify the price tags on the Macs.
Why do you assume that? Mac OS comes bundled with many more developing tools than Windows, from stuff like XCode which is just the best IDE for C/C++/Objective C in existence. and stuff like Vi, Emacs, etc. from its Unix nature. Not to mention that it makes a much more solid (web) server than any Windows could possibly wish.
Additionally, assuming "PC" refers to Windows OS (using PC and Mac for distinction is retarded btw, a Mac is also a personal computer): native terminal >> putty OSX >> cygwin
As for PC with some linux distro: Mac comes with relative bug free UIs for various IDEs, which is very nice.
Also, referring to the "cheaper" comment, my Lenovo ThinkPad costs just as much as a MBP with marginally better specs, but no webcam. It's just not fair to compare Mac against the cheapest notebook you can find online.
I have 3 win7 pc's and a win7 laptop. My company decided to buy me a Macbook Pro 15'', the 2.66Ghz version and I just love the fuck out of it.
- I love coding on it - My traktor scratch pro loves it - I love writing on that thing - I absolutely love the trackpad! - I love how fast it is up - I love the sexy unibody
Best laptop I ever owned by far. Whenever I'm on another laptop I'm like -_- meh... But keep in mind it's not for gaming. It's just designing and mixing. And for that it's simply awesome.
Macs use the parts they use. As a PC you have MANY choices of parts to use, some of them have good reputations, others are known to be poor quality. To say they all use the exact same parts is blatantly false. It doesn't mean the poor quality ones will always give everyone problems, but Apple DOES use parts that are considered high quality, and that would cost significantly more than the parts in your $350 PC if you were to make a PC out of them.
Yes they do, they all use the exact same parts from OEMs. Corsair, Antec, OCZ, g.skill, XFX, and other friends all source their parts from Samsung, Hynix, Seasonic, CWT, etc. They might tinker with it and make aesthetically different choices but the parts that matter operate near identically. A Corsair power supply with 80+ gold certification will be exactly the same as a 80+ gold certificated Seasonic because it literally is and if it has issues, it will be the exact same issues.
RAM in particular are all exactly identical. They are all some flavor of Samsung, Hynix, or Toshiba and for this reason its stupid to pay more than the bare minimum for these parts. For these reasons that $350 computer doesn't have worse parts than a iMac except in possibly the power supply (what is the iMac's power supply anyway?).
You are not paying $$$ for Apple's high quality internal hardware (Mac Pros are using 80+ Bronze power supplies for instance which is fairly standard in power supplies these days) you are paying for support, design, and the IPS screen (the fucker is $1000 alone, that is why they're so expensive). Notice I haven't said anything bad about Apple computers, it because I know exactly what they offer, what their target market is, and their purpose in the i device ecosystem.
Like hell you do. You pulled this out of your ass. I was running StarCraft 2 on my 5 year old iMac until I got this one. Stop even saying anything if you can't prove it, because EVERY SINGLE THING YOU HAVE SAID is either a flat out lie or completely irrelevant to any of the points I made.
Protip: Starcraft 2 is only one game out of hundreds of PC games out there. Also its more CPU bound than GPU bound so of course a iMac is doing to do fairly well at it.
Try playing something that is more GPU bound like Just Cause 2 (aka the best console port of this generation) or some FPS game without it performing worse or looking worse than the console version. You can't and its entirely due to the GPU, the HD5750 doesn't really cut it without turning settings down.
This isn't a bad thing, they're not designed for games and true PC gaming is essentially dead so it literally doesn't matter, I thought I made this clear.
I'm not misinformed or incorrect. I've used it myself. If you don't really want to get into it, don't call me a liar. If you're going to be a dick, at least back it up.
It's not as simple as you say unless you purposely buy 100% compatible parts, and while things may have gotten better since I used it, it is still a HACK that is against the terms of service, it takes more time and knowledge to use, and has no customer support (no doubt you will point out that the community will help you out, but the community is often quite unhelpful). You will also get updates slower.
I'm not saying it's evil or worthless or anything, but it is NOT for your average consumer.
As long at you buy a Gigabyte board and the same GPU architecture as Apple uses (which is currently Evergreen), it will basically run fine. There's Tonymac and Kakewalk and both options are fairly simple to do (Kakewalk in particular basically does everything for you). Community is great too, Tonymac's forums are probably one of the best ways to find solutions to issues.
If you just want to run OSX, which is the whole point of a Hackintosh, its perfectly fine and stable. I've tried it out and compared it with my Macbook Pro and there really isn't really any difference besides the fact the DVD drive is a bit buggy (probably because its not a slot loader). All programs work fine, updates work as they should, can use Time Machine, etc. The fact that Apple uses Intel processors makes everything so easy.
On February 17 2011 18:42 telfire wrote: Yourwhiteshadow, you're entitled to your opinion and you seem to have reached it at least partially logically (your Mac CAN play CS:S though, NATIVELY IN MAC OS X, and for the things that's not true of, you can still run Windows). Then you go off and call everyone who buys a mac a "fool" multiple times, despite listing a ton of reasons why Macs are better. That's not the way to have a constructive conversation.
I've tried to play CS:S natively, it sucks. Its just really terrible, can't play L4D2 or TF2 either with decent settings. I mean, even on the lower settings, I can't get higher than 40 fps. My computer from 2004 was able to play CS:S at a decent resolution with decent settings. I just don't understand. If it makes you feel better, I'm a fool too for giving into the MAC hype. One of the main reasons I bought it was because my GF had one, and my best friend had one. I thought it'd be cool. But honestly, if we want to be constructive, we're better off buying faster hardware.
Also, for me this is a little touchy subject. I run a charity where I refurbish computers that are donated, and I donate them to kids who need them. I don't think people realize how blessed we are to even have computers. A lot of people just don't own their own computers, plain and simple. It hurts me to see people go get MACs, and then trash them later on because there isn't anything else to do with them. Yah, there are *nix distros for PowerPC, but the processors are like dinosaurs. I can't refurb those for kids. Even in 5 years, if I want to refurb an Apple computer, I'm going to have way more issues because of the EFI or w/e. But my main point, is that we have the option to choose, and yet we don't realize most people don't even have the option.
What would you rather have, a car that can go 500 miles per hour but doesn't pass safety, breaks after a while, and requires reading a manual to operate, or a car that can go 450 miles per hour and is drop dead simple to use, lasts a long time, and resells for more used? Chances are, you'll never max out the speed anyway. I wouldn't blame anyone who wanted the fast car, but for most people the slower one would be a much better choice because it is better designed in other ways. Speed is not even close to the only aspect people look at when buying a car. Likewise, Macs have many benefits that are not bleeding edge performance and 16 core processing, which is required by literally nothing, and very few programs even benefit slightly from.
Of course a Mac is a good product, but the issue here is if it´s worth paying more for less, so I feel that your metaphor is a bit off here. Plus you act like any laptop other than a Mac breaks and is really hard to use which is not true.
Biggest selling point for me would be the battery life, which is really good, but I´m not sure if I would pay for an overpriced product just for that. The arguments made here are more about the software, but windows is really fine if you know what you do. If you don´t like it, just get hackintosh, might be a bit harder to set up, but then you got the same product in another jacket with less money.
Most people do get Mac´s just because it´s ´cool´ though, but if you got some knowledge about pc's, why would you pay more for a Mac?
On February 18 2011 01:38 scBane wrote: Of course a Mac is a good product, but the issue here is if it´s worth paying more for less, so I feel that your metaphor is a bit off here. Plus you act like any laptop other than a Mac breaks and is really hard to use which is not true.
Nah I'm not saying that at all. I fear I may have used too many words to communicate my point, and caused some confusion. I just need to accept that there are some people who simply can't see the value, and that's fine. For some, PCs are the perfect tool for the job.
All I'm trying to say is that, for me personally, and in my opinion most consumers, the Mac is worth the upfront investment. I feel that the benefits I have listed in my prior posts far outweigh the initial investment, I also feel that the bulk of people in this thread are overestimating the difference in price between a Mac and a PC, and that when you re-sell a Mac you will almost certainly make up most of the difference.
Hackintosh, and building a PC, to most consumers, are not worth the hassle or time commitment, plus you sacrifice the world-class support and re-sale value.
To reiterate, I'm not trying to convince anyone that every single situation demands a Mac and PCs are worthless. I'm just tired of the attitude that the only people who buy Macs are ignorant, when in fact it's almost always the Mac-bashers who are extremely ignorant.
On February 17 2011 18:42 telfire wrote: Yourwhiteshadow, you're entitled to your opinion and you seem to have reached it at least partially logically (your Mac CAN play CS:S though, NATIVELY IN MAC OS X, and for the things that's not true of, you can still run Windows). Then you go off and call everyone who buys a mac a "fool" multiple times, despite listing a ton of reasons why Macs are better. That's not the way to have a constructive conversation.
I've tried to play CS:S natively, it sucks. Its just really terrible, can't play L4D2 or TF2 either with decent settings. I mean, even on the lower settings, I can't get higher than 40 fps. My computer from 2004 was able to play CS:S at a decent resolution with decent settings. I just don't understand. If it makes you feel better, I'm a fool too for giving into the MAC hype. One of the main reasons I bought it was because my GF had one, and my best friend had one. I thought it'd be cool. But honestly, if we want to be constructive, we're better off buying faster hardware.
Also, for me this is a little touchy subject. I run a charity where I refurbish computers that are donated, and I donate them to kids who need them. I don't think people realize how blessed we are to even have computers. A lot of people just don't own their own computers, plain and simple. It hurts me to see people go get MACs, and then trash them later on because there isn't anything else to do with them. Yah, there are *nix distros for PowerPC, but the processors are like dinosaurs. I can't refurb those for kids. Even in 5 years, if I want to refurb an Apple computer, I'm going to have way more issues because of the EFI or w/e. But my main point, is that we have the option to choose, and yet we don't realize most people don't even have the option.
There is no MAC, there is no reason to capitalize it, it is a Mac. It is short for Macintosh. It is and was never MAC. This is a minor issue, but a pet peeve of mine and just one example of how ignorant you are on the subject. Ignorance is not a crime, but having a loud pronounced opinion and stating that anyone who disagrees with it is a fool is just pure douchebaggery.
For one, 40FPS is fine, not even close to "really terrible"... The human eye can't distinguish beyond 30, so 40 is fine and while more obviously shows better performance, that is FINE to play games with. You can get Macs that will get way more than that. The point of a computer is WHAT IT IS CAPABLE OF, and artificial numbers being higher is meaningless to the average computer user. The important thing is how it behaves, and Mac OS X is far better than Windows IMO.
Anyways, if you RUN WINDOWS you will get 100% native performance on ANY game. Do you not even realize this? You can run Windows NATIVELY on any Intel Mac, and it will perform as good or better than equivalent speed PC. So you went from "can't even play it" to plays it "just terribly" and now I'm telling you that you can run it at 100% speed that a PC could. Care to change your story again?
If people are trashing their Mac they are losing out. The things resell MUCH better than PCs do. PCs do not even last nearly as long as Macs on average, in my experience a PC lasts till it dies and then you replace it. Rarely is an old PC worth repairing unless you just have the parts lying around anyway. A Mac will just keep on going, 15 years or so most of the time. Yes, the technology gets better and makes the old ones look pretty poor, this is every bit as true for PCs as well, a very old PC is going to be very slow trying to do any modern tasks. That's just how technology works, you can't hold it against Mac if you're not going to hold it against PC.
Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion as I said, but don't be a douchebag about it. I have an opinion to, and I am absolutely not a fool. My opinion is educated, and backed with tons of reasoning. I have used both types of systems extensively and I massively prefer this one.
As for your little anecdote about how fortunate we are, it's irrelevant. I know people will use their emotions instead of their brain and think me a horrible person for saying it, but there being poor people in the world has absolutely no bearing, affect, or relevance to my computer choice. And claiming you can't refurb a Mac is absolutely ludicrous, Macs are far far FAR better for that purpose as I have repeatedly stated... They hold their resale value for a good reason.
What would you rather have, a car that can go 500 miles per hour but doesn't pass safety, breaks after a while, and requires reading a manual to operate, or a car that can go 450 miles per hour and is drop dead simple to use, lasts a long time, and resells for more used? Chances are, you'll never max out the speed anyway. I wouldn't blame anyone who wanted the fast car, but for most people the slower one would be a much better choice because it is better designed in other ways. Speed is not even close to the only aspect people look at when buying a car. Likewise, Macs have many benefits that are not bleeding edge performance and 16 core processing, which is required by literally nothing, and very few programs even benefit slightly from.
stop attacking the arguer instead of his argument. and also, it's 60 fps for humans, not 30fps. get your "educated reasoning" right please. 30fps?! that's horrible... lol
On February 16 2011 23:04 telfire wrote:Why not install Hackintosh? Because it's a hack that barely works, takes hours to set up IF you know what you're doing, and has abysmal support.
You are misinformed and incorrect. All you have to know how to do is burn a CD, boot from it, insert your retail OS X disc and install from it. Then use 1 nicely written utility once the installation is done to install some kexts (basically drivers). Thats it, and everything works fine. There are also multiple large communities dedicated to it, so chances are any piece of hardware you have is supported, and any problems you run into can be solved by a forum search.
I'm not misinformed or incorrect. I've used it myself. If you don't really want to get into it, don't call me a liar. If you're going to be a dick, at least back it up.
It's not as simple as you say unless you purposely buy 100% compatible parts, and while things may have gotten better since I used it, it is still a HACK that is against the terms of service, it takes more time and knowledge to use, and has no customer support (no doubt you will point out that the community will help you out, but the community is often quite unhelpful). You will also get updates slower.
I'm not saying it's evil or worthless or anything, but it is NOT for your average consumer.
There's no need to insult me, and perhaps you just weren't speaking with recent experience. The only thing relevant to the discussion at hand is how simple it is to do now, not whenever you did it. As of today, it is extremely simple, almost any configuration of pc based on an i3/i5/i7 will work fine. You don't have to wait for updates since you can use the OS X updater.
As for the community support, all I know is that it can be very helpful to people that haven't done it before, but I've never had a problem doing it so I've never needed support. I've installed it on an i5 based laptop and on an i7 based desktop.
Yes its against the terms of service. Personally I don't care, since I'm not going to buy hardware at inflated prices to be able to use the iOS SDK.
On February 17 2011 17:13 telfire wrote: Mac can do EVERYTHING PC can do EXACTLY as well
On February 18 2011 02:50 AyeH wrote: stop attacking the arguer instead of his argument. and also, it's 60 fps for humans, not 30fps. get your "educated reasoning" right please. 30fps?! that's horrible... lol
You've got to be kidding me. I have offered logical explanations of my view point, I have tried very hard to address every single argument people have managed to muster. That is why my posts are so long, because I went through every single post and addressed every paragraph individually. I am not attacking anyone, but some of the things that are being said in here are straight up wrong.
On the contrary, I feel it's pretty clear that I am the one being attacked here. The guy called me a fool for having a different opinion, and there are others who have simply insulted, without offering any kind of logic. How you can say I am one of those people is beyond my comprehension...I was so clear and concise about why I actually feel the way I do, with logic, the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you're accusing me of. But then, you could only manage to address a single rather unimportant point while creating a quite insulting undertone, so I guess you're just a hypocrite.
As for the 30FPS argument, you're right about the human eye being able to perceive more. I had heard numerous times from numerous sources that 30FPS was the cutoff and adopted it without fully researching it, just looked it up and it turns out that is wrong. Grats.
On February 18 2011 02:50 AyeH wrote: stop attacking the arguer instead of his argument. and also, it's 60 fps for humans, not 30fps. get your "educated reasoning" right please. 30fps?! that's horrible... lol
You've got to be kidding me. I have offered logical explanations of my view point, I have tried very hard to address every single argument people have managed to muster. That is why my posts are so long, because I went through every single post and addressed every paragraph individually. I am not attacking anyone, but some of the things that are being said in here are straight up wrong.
On the contrary, I feel it's pretty clear that I am the one being attacked here. The guy called me a fool for having a different opinion, and there are others who have simply insulted, without offering any kind of logic. How you can say I am one of those people is beyond my comprehension...I was so clear and concise about why I actually feel the way I do, with logic, the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you're accusing me of. But then, you could only manage to address a single rather unimportant point while creating a quite insulting undertone, so I guess you're just a hypocrite.
As for the 30FPS argument, you're right about the human eye being able to perceive more. I had heard numerous times from numerous sources that 30FPS was the cutoff and adopted it without fully researching it, just looked it up and it turns out that is wrong. Grats.
Lol. The Mac is not superior to the PC, price wise, hardware wise, program wise, gaming wise, etc. Prices for the PC are MUCH more competitive and do not pay a ridiculous amount to buy a laptop with decent parts. Program wise, the Mac may come with more programs, but there are WAY more programs available to Windows than the Mac OS X. Gaming wise, Macs have nothing there. The pre-built GPUs in mac laptops are not that good. They can get you 20-40fps on full resolution most I bet. The desktops from apple are horrible compared to what you can buy with the same amount of money. the 2k you spend on a apple, you can spend on a pc that is water cooled with SLI gpu and a nice 25in screen. And it's nice to to know that anywhere you go, they'll be a PC that you are used to using. The only group of Mac users I know are designers and hipsters like college students that think having a Mac makes them cool.
1) 40 FPS is definitely not high enough. If it was, why the heck do have all the LCDs in the past 10 years been 60 Hz minimum (or 59 Hz PAL). I'm not gonna play CS:S, a game that was released over 5 years ago at 40 FPS. I've even tried it in Windows 7, and i get maybe 5 more FPS. The fact of the matter is, I bought a Honda Civic with 120 HP when I could have paid half and bought a Ford Mustang with 3x the horsepower. Anyways, my gaming is all done on my desktop anyways, I enjoy it much more on a big ass screen, but this is irrelevant to the argument. Actually, maybe its not. I guess having a MBP/MAC laptop isn't a bad idea if you have a desktop that does the majority of your work. After effects on my MBP is not even a choice. No way in hell I'm going to even try to render anything on that. I could have paid $650 for a laptop that can actually do stuff in After Effects. We won't even touch on other software like 3Ds max, or CAD software, or industry specific software. Can you imagine trying to show a client something, and you want to customize it, but it's gonna take 10 minutes to do a rough render? Maybe you photoshop only and don't use hardware intensive programs.
2) I actually run boot camp, but as you mentioned, MAC does everything my PC does. As such, I haven't ran my windows partition for 12 months on my MBP. In fact, the reason I run OS X on my MBP is because it is actually a little bit better than Windows 7. Mostly though, this is because bootcamp drivers annoy the hell out of me. For example, I can't turn off the keyboard backlight no matter how hard I try, it'll just come back on. Also, keyspacing is lulz. Try using a PC keyboard, then a MAC keyboard, then a MAC keyboard running Windows 7. Have fun. It takes some adjusting.
3) Back to windows native performance for a second. The source engine is native to OS X. Just, OS X sucks for games. Plain and simple. Developers don't want to use it.
4) I'm not sure the MACs last longer than PCs claim is valid. First, the PC market share is orders of magnitude larger than Apple's market share. Second, you'd have to find a hardware failure rate or "software" failure rate. However, again, you can't compare because when PCs are selling 10x more is it really fair to judge.
5) Yes, of course the resale value is better. That's like saying, hey look at the resale value of my Ferrari.
6) I don't want to refurb old PowerPC macs. And who in their right mind would give me an Intel based mac? I remember when Core 2 Duo came out, the cheapest configuration was like $2500. Haha. I doubt I'd ever give away anything that I initially bought for $2500.
7) 500 mph vs 450 mph? No, hardly that. Go look at what our friend Steve Jobs is selling right now.
Seriously, a Core 2 Duo is still the default CPU on a MBP 13"? A Core i5 is significantly better, and you can easily go grab a machine with an for half the price. In fact, you could have bought a machine with an i5 for half the price 6 months ago. If Apple wasn't a luxury brand, and they were the only available computer brand, it would be called price gouging. Fortunately, they're not the only computer brand. 500 mph vs 450 mph isn't even a valid argument. There are a plethora of benchmarks showing the i5 mobile architecture has made significant improvements, over 10-15% in some areas. I suppose if you like to buy old stuff for a high price MAC makes sense. Yeah, their CS is great, but they have the same 1 year warranty everyone else does. After that one year, your hardware isn't guaranteed to last a lifetime, which to be honest, I can't believe it sounds like that's what you're implying.
Bottom line: Apple sells overpriced PCs.
edit: Actually, on a further note. No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap. If you're a 'designer' you certainly know that your stuff is hosted on "PCs" running Linux. If the world ran on Apple's overpriced stuff, we wouldn't be going at 500 mph, 450 mph, or even 15 mph, we'd probably be doing something like 1 mph. The fact of the matter is that for a small amount of home users and a very small amount of professional users, MAC is attractive from a physical standpoint. If I'm a musician (as a hobby I am), I'm going to buy a PC that does the same stuff for less, and go spend another $500 on a high end condenser mic that is actually going to make my music sound good. Your view on MACs is from an extremely limited point of view as a 'designer'. I was doing research with a professor last semester, and one of his grad students had written a program for linux. Why? Well, they could set up their own cloud and get 50x the computing power for much less. I'm serious about this though, they spent roughly $10k for something like 14 quad core servers or something, all were running Linux. $10k at the apple store buys you something like 4-5 quad cores? Very few people actually NEED MACs, and in very few situations is buying Apple hardware actually ideal.
Let's just get this clear. Hardware wise (CPU, GPU, Case, PSU, RAM, HDD, DVD/CD DRIVE), Macs don't really compare to PCs because they just jack the prices up like no other and make consumers think they use "special" parts in their laptop that you can buy for 30% of the apple price on newegg. If you want to talk about Operating Systems, that's a different story altogether.
I buy Apple because they build their machines like brick shithouses, not out of plastic, on top of this, I get a *nix environment for any legitimate work I want to do. My desktop machine is a "self built" PC, and I'm perfectly happy with it, but I've had countless laptops and my MBP is the only one that stands the tests of time, I looked into buying an HP Envy but they're really built quite poorly, they just look slick, plus HP scrapped the hi-res screens on them, which is the only reason I wanted one in the first place. If money isn't a problem for you, there's essentially no reason not to buy Mac, plus you can irritate a ton of people with aspergers syndrome on the internet just by owning something.
I have a mac because I much prefer the mac versions of creative suite programs for work, as well as other things like final cut, and I also really like the Pages word processing program that comes with iWorks. I use a PC for anything that doesn't involve work.
I used to be a real elitist about owning a PC and thought macs were an expensive fashion statement. Then I got a job and I could afford owning both. A vast number of people dislike macs because they don't see the utility and don't feel like it appeals to their aesthetic, and they should just rest easy knowing that Apple's probably not trying to pitch a mac to them. It just seems odd to hate on the stereotypical mac user for financial irresponsibility and a lack of technological awareness, when you can hate them for so many better reasons.
On February 18 2011 05:28 yourwhiteshadow wrote: edit: Actually, on a further note. No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap.
Yet another huge assumption based on some weak rationalization without the slightest hint of research. I mean just looking at this site alone can prove you wrong. Look at the right side of the page and you will see a pretty big link to a site called "thelittleappfactory".
But it's always so easy to fall in love with one's own ridiculous ideas if it makes one feel smarter than everyone else.
On February 18 2011 05:28 yourwhiteshadow wrote: edit: Actually, on a further note. No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap.
Yet another huge assumption based on some weak rationalization without the slightest hint of research. I mean just looking at this site alone can prove you wrong. Look at the right side of the page and you will see a pretty big link to a site called "thelittleappfactory".
But it's always so easy to fall in love with one's own ridiculous ideas if it makes one feel smarter than everyone else.
Yeah I suppose IT guys need to download YouTube videos, rip DVDs, make custom iPhone ringtones, and download music and movies from the web (all of the Little App Factory stuff). Oh hey look, Amazon's EC2 service is all about using The Little App Factory stuff and MAC software. Oh wait, its not. I suggest you do some research on what "IT" is, and since you're so lazy:
On February 18 2011 02:50 AyeH wrote: stop attacking the arguer instead of his argument. and also, it's 60 fps for humans, not 30fps. get your "educated reasoning" right please. 30fps?! that's horrible... lol
Don't wanna get involved into this mac thing, but had to comment here.
You are wrong AyeH, since the human eye and the subsequent perception system does not know about "fps". This immediately obvious if you remember that cinema only has 24fps @ 72Hz (that is, each frame is usually displayed 3 times to reduce flicker). Digital cinema might have higher Hz numbers. Do you notice the "low" fps in Cinema? You don't, even if the 24fps there is below the 30fps threshold mentioned earlier.
On the other hand, some people can identify aircraft types flashed to them only for the length of 1/200th of a second which is equivalent to 200fps. If you want to know more about how human visual perception works, start here:
I personally noticed the difference between 85 and 125 fps on my old CRT screen in quake 3, not only because of the movement but it would also render much smoother.
On February 18 2011 05:28 yourwhiteshadow wrote: edit: Actually, on a further note. No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap.
Yet another huge assumption based on some weak rationalization without the slightest hint of research. I mean just looking at this site alone can prove you wrong. Look at the right side of the page and you will see a pretty big link to a site called "thelittleappfactory".
But it's always so easy to fall in love with one's own ridiculous ideas if it makes one feel smarter than everyone else.
Yeah I suppose IT guys need to download YouTube videos, rip DVDs, make custom iPhone ringtones, and download music and movies from the web (all of the Little App Factory stuff). Oh hey look, Amazon's EC2 service is all about using The Little App Factory stuff and MAC software. Oh wait, its not. I suggest you do some research on what "IT" is, and since you're so lazy:
Pray tell me where in IT are there no software applications? I think you're the one that doesn't know anything about IT. Did you know there are a lot of programmers that wouldn't like to be called IT?
Oh hey, over 5 million downloads on one of the apps in that site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPodRip Maybe you'd like to drop your condescending tone?
On February 18 2011 05:28 yourwhiteshadow wrote: edit: Actually, on a further note. No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap.
Yet another huge assumption based on some weak rationalization without the slightest hint of research. I mean just looking at this site alone can prove you wrong. Look at the right side of the page and you will see a pretty big link to a site called "thelittleappfactory".
But it's always so easy to fall in love with one's own ridiculous ideas if it makes one feel smarter than everyone else.
Yeah I suppose IT guys need to download YouTube videos, rip DVDs, make custom iPhone ringtones, and download music and movies from the web (all of the Little App Factory stuff). Oh hey look, Amazon's EC2 service is all about using The Little App Factory stuff and MAC software. Oh wait, its not. I suggest you do some research on what "IT" is, and since you're so lazy:
Pray tell me where in IT are there no software applications? I think you're the one that doesn't know anything about IT. Did you know there are a lot of programmers that wouldn't like to be called IT?
Oh hey, over 5 million downloads on one of the apps in that site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPodRip Maybe you'd like to drop your condescending tone?
I didn't say there are no applications in IT. You're just assuming I said that. What I said was that people in the IT industry rarely look to MACs to for anything but personal use. Over 99% of MACs will always be used for personal use, that's simply it. Intensive computing, servers, etc will continue to be on "PCs" because of the cost effective scalability. Oh cool, 5 million downloads of some ipodrip program that's probably stored on a Linux server. I guess that's supposed to make a school or company's computers run faster... I'm not quite sure how thelittleappfactory is important for IT people to complete their job. But when loyal MAC users need to defend their crippled poodle they will do anything. While I love my MAC, its a built like a rock and all, its just too slow for what I need to do compared to other operating systems.
Unfortunately, if you design software that deals with data acquisition or databasing you are in IT.
Yeah.. I guess the little app factory was dumb enough to not realize that there are more than 5 million people studying in a school or working in a company and make "real IT work", oh wait.. And what's that? You did not say that "people in the IT industry rarely look at MACs" you said and I quote:
No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap.
But it's good progress that you just changed no one for rarely. Maybe once you get your head out of your ass and realize that you didn't even have to navigate out of this page to find an example of a software company using Macs then you'll make an even more reasonable assumption. Also, your mac is too slow for what? Gaming? Or some actual work? The same cheap processors found in your average highschooler's comp were used 2-3 years ago to power up servers like yahoo's. Hardware advances way faster than software you know.
On February 18 2011 17:21 Cloud wrote: Yeah.. I guess the little app factory was dumb enough to not realize that there are more than 5 million people studying in a school or working in a company and make "real IT work", oh wait.. And what's that? You did not say that "people in the IT industry rarely look at MACs" you said and I quote:
No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap.
But it's good progress that you just changed no one for rarely. Maybe once you get your head out of your ass and realize that you didn't even have to navigate out of this page to find an example of a software company using Macs then you'll make an even more reasonable assumption. Also, your mac is too slow for what? Gaming? Or some actual work? The same cheap processors found in your average highschooler's comp were used 2-3 years ago to power up servers like yahoo's. Hardware advances way faster than software you know.
Do you realize what I'm trying to say? I'm trying to say people in the IT industry that do IT work. I'm not taking into account their personal lives. Find me a legitimate handful of companies that have an IT department that rips ipod songs or w/e that program does. There isn't one. TheLittleAppFactory just writes software for personal use. Yeah they are an exception to my rule, but c'mon, someone has to write the software for MACs. I mean, Adobe brought CS5 to the MAC... You're counting the obvious software companies that write software FOR macs, I'm not. Also, I obviously checked out the little app factory's website, and how dumb do you think I am to not realize that there are independent vendors that write and sell software for MAC?
My mac is too slow for tons of stuff. Have you ever tried making a 48"x36" poster with tons of scientific data in Adobe Illustrator on a MBP? Yeah, have fun with that. Have you tried rendering molecular models of proteins on a dual core for a publication? Let me know when you've done those things. Have you ever tried to do special effects in Adobe After Effects? Does that qualify for "actual work"? A ridiculous amount of computing intensive research takes place on Linux. Other stuff is pretty much more cost effective on "PCs". Oh hold up, my building's retina access database and badge access is done through a Windows machine...big surprise.
I think you need to get out of your egocentric mindset and realize that the world does not revolve around you or any single person. MACs are essentially only good for one thing, and ironically that is for being a personal computer. Yeah, you can use it for work, like CS5, making music, etc, but you can use a "PC" for those things as well. I hope you hold Apple shares, otherwise you're just a pawn in their ridiculous moneymaking scheme.
Of course the same processors in your average high schooler's comp were used to power up yahoo servers 2-3 years ago. That's because thanks to operating systems such as linux, you can cluster computers to provide ridiculous amounts of power.
On February 18 2011 05:28 yourwhiteshadow wrote: edit: Actually, on a further note. No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap.
Yet another huge assumption based on some weak rationalization without the slightest hint of research. I mean just looking at this site alone can prove you wrong. Look at the right side of the page and you will see a pretty big link to a site called "thelittleappfactory".
But it's always so easy to fall in love with one's own ridiculous ideas if it makes one feel smarter than everyone else.
Yeah I suppose IT guys need to download YouTube videos, rip DVDs, make custom iPhone ringtones, and download music and movies from the web (all of the Little App Factory stuff). Oh hey look, Amazon's EC2 service is all about using The Little App Factory stuff and MAC software. Oh wait, its not. I suggest you do some research on what "IT" is, and since you're so lazy:
I'm a programmer for one of the largest companies in the world (You are using their product right now I bet), and I own a Mac. I'd much rather work in a *nix environment than a Windows one.
EDIT: Also, this is generally the case with most professionals, your anecdotal evidence is misleading and inaccurate.
I think there is no reason to get a MAC instead of a PC. You can install MAC on a PC, and PCs are cheaper anyway. So I agree with the OP, MAC is pretty redundant in comparison to PC.
I personally have been using macs since I was 6 years old. Back then they were just grey boxes like normal PCs, not "cool" looking in any way. I guess I just sticked to them because I knew them.
What I still like about my iMacs though, is that I never have any problems whatsoever with them. Sure, I payed a higher price than my room mate, who bought every piece at a different store and built it together himself. All I had to do was order the iMac I wanted online, and with my 20% student bonus that wasn't such a bad deal after all. My mate's PC crashes all the time, he tried to explain to me why, but I don't really care.
TL:DR: why would I not get a Mac if I can afford it, and don't know shit about how computers work?
On February 18 2011 17:21 Cloud wrote: Yeah.. I guess the little app factory was dumb enough to not realize that there are more than 5 million people studying in a school or working in a company and make "real IT work", oh wait.. And what's that? You did not say that "people in the IT industry rarely look at MACs" you said and I quote:
No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap.
But it's good progress that you just changed no one for rarely. Maybe once you get your head out of your ass and realize that you didn't even have to navigate out of this page to find an example of a software company using Macs then you'll make an even more reasonable assumption. Also, your mac is too slow for what? Gaming? Or some actual work? The same cheap processors found in your average highschooler's comp were used 2-3 years ago to power up servers like yahoo's. Hardware advances way faster than software you know.
Do you realize what I'm trying to say? I'm trying to say people in the IT industry that do IT work. I'm not taking into account their personal lives. Find me a legitimate handful of companies that have an IT department that rips ipod songs or w/e that program does. There isn't one. TheLittleAppFactory just writes software for personal use. Yeah they are an exception to my rule, but c'mon, someone has to write the software for MACs. I mean, Adobe brought CS5 to the MAC... You're counting the obvious software companies that write software FOR macs, I'm not. Also, I obviously checked out the little app factory's website, and how dumb do you think I am to not realize that there are independent vendors that write and sell software for MAC?
My mac is too slow for tons of stuff. Have you ever tried making a 48"x36" poster with tons of scientific data in Adobe Illustrator on a MBP? Yeah, have fun with that. Have you tried rendering molecular models of proteins on a dual core for a publication? Let me know when you've done those things. Have you ever tried to do special effects in Adobe After Effects? Does that qualify for "actual work"? A ridiculous amount of computing intensive research takes place on Linux. Other stuff is pretty much more cost effective on "PCs". Oh hold up, my building's retina access database and badge access is done through a Windows machine...big surprise.
I think you need to get out of your egocentric mindset and realize that the world does not revolve around you or any single person. MACs are essentially only good for one thing, and ironically that is for being a personal computer. Yeah, you can use it for work, like CS5, making music, etc, but you can use a "PC" for those things as well. I hope you hold Apple shares, otherwise you're just a pawn in their ridiculous moneymaking scheme.
Of course the same processors in your average high schooler's comp were used to power up yahoo servers 2-3 years ago. That's because thanks to operating systems such as linux, you can cluster computers to provide ridiculous amounts of power.
You keep mentioning Linux and for whatever reason I can't understand, you also compare it to a Mac. What does the OS have to do with anything? We're talking about computers here. And either way, Linux doesn't come bundled in almost any machine in the market. You either buy a Windows machine or a Mac OS machine and then install your flavor of Linux. The only explanation I can think of is that since you're assuming that Macs are sooo much more expensive than regular PCs then you absolutely must use their OS. But wait, the actual total cost of ownership of a Windows machine is higher than that of a Mac OS machine.
Funny how you mention Adobe and Linux in the same breath. Adobe is notorious for not giving adequate support for anything that isn't Windows. Particularly if you're talking about Linux. Every program of theirs pretty much sucks ass is you're trying to use it on a Linux machine.
And well, you assume that your company uses Windows for their retina access databases because it's the best choice? How did you come to that conclusion? Are you a programmer? - obviously not. Is the guy who decided to use Windows a programmer? You know in the IT world, standard practice is not best practice. For proof of that you only need to read any blog about a successful startup and you'll notice that not a single one of them ever used any proprietary technology (read: standard or popular technology). Oh and if you ask them what kind of computers they used? Well first off, laptops are an absolute must and macbooks are jut unparalleled, besides their cost when compared to an equivalent Windows laptop (in Hardware parts) is almost the same, but you get everything from design to superior customer support, and better support for other OSs that just doesn't come with Windows laptops.
And you're calling me egocentric? Screw you dude, you're the one that claimed that no one in the IT world would ever consider using macs, you were proved wrong. You used phrases like "my rule" and "people in IT business who do IT work" to demean those who (in your opinion) don't, when you're obviously not a programmer. I don't even need to like Macs to tell you're completely wrong since you're so intent on dealing with absolutes.
Here's what computers scientists/hackers think about the mac; hint: people with a bit more taste than angsty 15 year olds that think their self worth is being insulted by the mythical arrogant mac user.
On February 18 2011 17:21 Cloud wrote: Yeah.. I guess the little app factory was dumb enough to not realize that there are more than 5 million people studying in a school or working in a company and make "real IT work", oh wait.. And what's that? You did not say that "people in the IT industry rarely look at MACs" you said and I quote:
No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap.
But it's good progress that you just changed no one for rarely. Maybe once you get your head out of your ass and realize that you didn't even have to navigate out of this page to find an example of a software company using Macs then you'll make an even more reasonable assumption. Also, your mac is too slow for what? Gaming? Or some actual work? The same cheap processors found in your average highschooler's comp were used 2-3 years ago to power up servers like yahoo's. Hardware advances way faster than software you know.
Do you realize what I'm trying to say? I'm trying to say people in the IT industry that do IT work. I'm not taking into account their personal lives. Find me a legitimate handful of companies that have an IT department that rips ipod songs or w/e that program does. There isn't one. TheLittleAppFactory just writes software for personal use. Yeah they are an exception to my rule, but c'mon, someone has to write the software for MACs. I mean, Adobe brought CS5 to the MAC... You're counting the obvious software companies that write software FOR macs, I'm not. Also, I obviously checked out the little app factory's website, and how dumb do you think I am to not realize that there are independent vendors that write and sell software for MAC?
My mac is too slow for tons of stuff. Have you ever tried making a 48"x36" poster with tons of scientific data in Adobe Illustrator on a MBP? Yeah, have fun with that. Have you tried rendering molecular models of proteins on a dual core for a publication? Let me know when you've done those things. Have you ever tried to do special effects in Adobe After Effects? Does that qualify for "actual work"? A ridiculous amount of computing intensive research takes place on Linux. Other stuff is pretty much more cost effective on "PCs". Oh hold up, my building's retina access database and badge access is done through a Windows machine...big surprise.
I think you need to get out of your egocentric mindset and realize that the world does not revolve around you or any single person. MACs are essentially only good for one thing, and ironically that is for being a personal computer. Yeah, you can use it for work, like CS5, making music, etc, but you can use a "PC" for those things as well. I hope you hold Apple shares, otherwise you're just a pawn in their ridiculous moneymaking scheme.
Of course the same processors in your average high schooler's comp were used to power up yahoo servers 2-3 years ago. That's because thanks to operating systems such as linux, you can cluster computers to provide ridiculous amounts of power.
You keep mentioning Linux and for whatever reason I can't understand, you also compare it to a Mac. What does the OS have to do with anything? We're talking about computers here. And either way, Linux doesn't come bundled in almost any machine in the market. You either buy a Windows machine or a Mac OS machine and then install your flavor of Linux. The only explanation I can think of is that since you're assuming that Macs are sooo much more expensive than regular PCs then you absolutely must use their OS. But wait, the actual total cost of ownership of a Windows machine is higher than that of a Mac OS machine.
Funny how you mention Adobe and Linux in the same breath. Adobe is notorious for not giving adequate support for anything that isn't Windows. Particularly if you're talking about Linux. Every program of theirs pretty much sucks ass is you're trying to use it on a Linux machine.
And well, you assume that your company uses Windows for their retina access databases because it's the best choice? How did you come to that conclusion? Are you a programmer? - obviously not. Is the guy who decided to use Windows a programmer? You know in the IT world, standard practice is not best practice. For proof of that you only need to read any blog about a successful startup and you'll notice that not a single one of them ever used any proprietary technology (read: standard or popular technology). Oh and if you ask them what kind of computers they used? Well first off, laptops are an absolute must and macbooks are jut unparalleled, besides their cost when compared to an equivalent Windows laptop (in Hardware parts) is almost the same, but you get everything from design to superior customer support, and better support for other OSs that just doesn't come with Windows laptops.
And you're calling me egocentric? Screw you dude, you're the one that claimed that no one in the IT world would ever consider using macs, you were proved wrong. You used phrases like "my rule" and "people in IT business who do IT work" to demean those who (in your opinion) don't, when you're obviously not a programmer. I don't even need to like Macs to tell you're completely wrong since you're so intent on dealing with absolutes.
ROFL. You use a bias source to prove your point? Look at the heading about what OpenSurge is. LOL. "We are big mac fans and love helping fans avoid the microsoft tax" Wow dude. Seriously? Nice try.
On February 18 2011 02:50 AyeH wrote: stop attacking the arguer instead of his argument. and also, it's 60 fps for humans, not 30fps. get your "educated reasoning" right please. 30fps?! that's horrible... lol
Don't wanna get involved into this mac thing, but had to comment here.
You are wrong AyeH, since the human eye and the subsequent perception system does not know about "fps". This immediately obvious if you remember that cinema only has 24fps @ 72Hz (that is, each frame is usually displayed 3 times to reduce flicker). Digital cinema might have higher Hz numbers. Do you notice the "low" fps in Cinema? You don't, even if the 24fps there is below the 30fps threshold mentioned earlier.
On the other hand, some people can identify aircraft types flashed to them only for the length of 1/200th of a second which is equivalent to 200fps. If you want to know more about how human visual perception works, start here:
I personally noticed the difference between 85 and 125 fps on my old CRT screen in quake 3, not only because of the movement but it would also render much smoother.
In terms of gaming, you can definitely notice if the frames drop to 24fps. I wasn't talking about cinema.
On February 18 2011 17:21 Cloud wrote: Yeah.. I guess the little app factory was dumb enough to not realize that there are more than 5 million people studying in a school or working in a company and make "real IT work", oh wait.. And what's that? You did not say that "people in the IT industry rarely look at MACs" you said and I quote:
No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap.
But it's good progress that you just changed no one for rarely. Maybe once you get your head out of your ass and realize that you didn't even have to navigate out of this page to find an example of a software company using Macs then you'll make an even more reasonable assumption. Also, your mac is too slow for what? Gaming? Or some actual work? The same cheap processors found in your average highschooler's comp were used 2-3 years ago to power up servers like yahoo's. Hardware advances way faster than software you know.
Do you realize what I'm trying to say? I'm trying to say people in the IT industry that do IT work. I'm not taking into account their personal lives. Find me a legitimate handful of companies that have an IT department that rips ipod songs or w/e that program does. There isn't one. TheLittleAppFactory just writes software for personal use. Yeah they are an exception to my rule, but c'mon, someone has to write the software for MACs. I mean, Adobe brought CS5 to the MAC... You're counting the obvious software companies that write software FOR macs, I'm not. Also, I obviously checked out the little app factory's website, and how dumb do you think I am to not realize that there are independent vendors that write and sell software for MAC?
My mac is too slow for tons of stuff. Have you ever tried making a 48"x36" poster with tons of scientific data in Adobe Illustrator on a MBP? Yeah, have fun with that. Have you tried rendering molecular models of proteins on a dual core for a publication? Let me know when you've done those things. Have you ever tried to do special effects in Adobe After Effects? Does that qualify for "actual work"? A ridiculous amount of computing intensive research takes place on Linux. Other stuff is pretty much more cost effective on "PCs". Oh hold up, my building's retina access database and badge access is done through a Windows machine...big surprise.
I think you need to get out of your egocentric mindset and realize that the world does not revolve around you or any single person. MACs are essentially only good for one thing, and ironically that is for being a personal computer. Yeah, you can use it for work, like CS5, making music, etc, but you can use a "PC" for those things as well. I hope you hold Apple shares, otherwise you're just a pawn in their ridiculous moneymaking scheme.
Of course the same processors in your average high schooler's comp were used to power up yahoo servers 2-3 years ago. That's because thanks to operating systems such as linux, you can cluster computers to provide ridiculous amounts of power.
You keep mentioning Linux and for whatever reason I can't understand, you also compare it to a Mac. What does the OS have to do with anything? We're talking about computers here. And either way, Linux doesn't come bundled in almost any machine in the market. You either buy a Windows machine or a Mac OS machine and then install your flavor of Linux. The only explanation I can think of is that since you're assuming that Macs are sooo much more expensive than regular PCs then you absolutely must use their OS. But wait, the actual total cost of ownership of a Windows machine is higher than that of a Mac OS machine.
Funny how you mention Adobe and Linux in the same breath. Adobe is notorious for not giving adequate support for anything that isn't Windows. Particularly if you're talking about Linux. Every program of theirs pretty much sucks ass is you're trying to use it on a Linux machine.
And well, you assume that your company uses Windows for their retina access databases because it's the best choice? How did you come to that conclusion? Are you a programmer? - obviously not. Is the guy who decided to use Windows a programmer? You know in the IT world, standard practice is not best practice. For proof of that you only need to read any blog about a successful startup and you'll notice that not a single one of them ever used any proprietary technology (read: standard or popular technology). Oh and if you ask them what kind of computers they used? Well first off, laptops are an absolute must and macbooks are jut unparalleled, besides their cost when compared to an equivalent Windows laptop (in Hardware parts) is almost the same, but you get everything from design to superior customer support, and better support for other OSs that just doesn't come with Windows laptops.
And you're calling me egocentric? Screw you dude, you're the one that claimed that no one in the IT world would ever consider using macs, you were proved wrong. You used phrases like "my rule" and "people in IT business who do IT work" to demean those who (in your opinion) don't, when you're obviously not a programmer. I don't even need to like Macs to tell you're completely wrong since you're so intent on dealing with absolutes.
You're viewpoints are so narrow-minded and limited. I suppose this is because you're too busy watching potheads on MAC commercials only mention Windows vs MAC. I know MAC users don't view any computer manufacturer except Apple as a legitimate company, but Dell for a long time has shipped computers with Ubuntu:
Please try and dispute Dell as an illegitimate computer manafacturer. Also, check out HP if Dell isn't legit enough for you, here are some servers if you're interested:
Obviously my point is that the computer world doesn't revolve around Windows and OS X. You must be oblivious to the fact that major corporations around the world are completely switching to Linux. Take a look at Google for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goobuntu, that's their own Ubuntu distro that half the company uses. Google Chrome OS which has shipped out with prototype netbooks, is a Linux based machine. Oh hey, Android OS is a modified Linux kernel. Android's market share is no 53% making them the market leader. Do you want to argue with that?
You're viewpoints are so limited and one sided that its hillarious. You need to open up a little bit. I might sound like a Linux fan boy, but I don't really like it that much. I just know that its important to me as a web developer/programmer. The office software for Linux is sub-par and depending on which industry you are in, the software for that industry isn't that great either. The only reason I use Linux on my desktop at home is for eye candy and screen macros. I also have a server set up for media stuff, but aside from that I use Windows 7 on my desktop. I use all three operating systems. To be honest, each one has its own place and they are highly replaceable. I don't need any particular OS to get a certain job done, just some are better than others at doing a particular task.
Anyways, I'm surprised people use MACs, I suppose looking hip is a necessity. That's cool with me. And if those developers want to continue to have pink slip penny stocks, then that's cool with me too. I think we can all look at Google's ~$600 stock price as proof of efficiency, excellent decision making, and a mark of triumph. Of course Google probably uses MACs, but they're making an empire out of Linux. The computing world doesn't revolve around Windows and MAC obviously. They all have their place, if you're the awesome developer you say you are you will realize this. If you can't accept that, then good luck to you and the company you work for.
Uh ok, two things. I never said I was a super awesome developer and I thought I made myself clear when I said that we weren't discussing OSs but computers? Especially Linux and co. shouldn't be included with PCs because you can install it anywhere and most of the time you have to do exactly that.
All that shit you're assuming when I never even dissed Linux? Yeah I said that it wasn't bundled in almost any computer in the market because it's true --that's not the same as saying that no one uses it, but the market doesn't care about tiny groups who can't settle on the technology they use. And i'm also not saying that it isn't bundled anywhere, you found 2 of the exceptions, mostly market research i dare think. I know IBM had this project a while ago trying to sell laptops with linux on them to rural china. It's still a very small market and Ubuntu is but only one of the many free unices.
But hey I'm always ok with humoring people. I never expected to have someone bitch at me about dissing linux. Since everyone keeps saying mac people must feel hip I guess it must be true.
Fun fact: I've never actually seen an entire Apple commercial, they're rarer in Mexico than you think.
On February 19 2011 04:46 Body_Shield wrote: I know a guy who worked at Logitech in the call center (tech help), he said he got more calls from Macs crashing than he did Vista.
Logitech was also known for creating lousy software for OSX, including a Control Center that installs an input manager, a sort of hack that uses non-supported, deprecated APIs.
On February 19 2011 13:50 Cloud wrote: Uh ok, two things. I never said I was a super awesome developer and I thought I made myself clear when I said that we weren't discussing OSs but computers? Especially Linux and co. shouldn't be included with PCs because you can install it anywhere and most of the time you have to do exactly that.
All that shit you're assuming when I never even dissed Linux? Yeah I said that it wasn't bundled in almost any computer in the market because it's true --that's not the same as saying that no one uses it, but the market doesn't care about tiny groups who can't settle on the technology they use. And i'm also not saying that it isn't bundled anywhere, you found 2 of the exceptions, mostly market research i dare think. I know IBM had this project a while ago trying to sell laptops with linux on them to rural china. It's still a very small market and Ubuntu is but only one of the many free unices.
But hey I'm always ok with humoring people. I never expected to have someone bitch at me about dissing linux. Since everyone keeps saying mac people must feel hip I guess it must be true.
Fun fact: I've never actually seen an entire Apple commercial, they're rarer in Mexico than you think.
Oh so now we're discussing just computers? So are we just discussing laptops specifically or do cell phones not count? Ubuntu has been an offering on Dell's notebooks for quite a while now. Linux has been standard on many servers for quite a while. No one is going to pay for windows server when linux is free, and certainly no one is going to pay for Apple OS X Server because it is a joke. Do you want to pull the, popular software isn't the best software trick here? I suppose the thousands of servers running Linux don't count now. It isn't market research, its pure fact, linux is the server standard in these days. Even I run a home server to test applications, run my own file serve, and even run a few game servers on a Linux distro.
Why isn't Linux considered for "PCs"? You can definitely buy PCs with linux preinstalled, and you can most definitely install it onto any computer without breaking terms of service. I don't even like Linux because the third-party software support sucks ass; in fact, its almost non-existent because 99% of stuff on Linux has to be FOSS to even get downloaded. I don't know how you consider Linux small market but OS X isn't? Windows has a marketshare of approximately ~85%, OS X 7%, and Linux 1%. While Windows has over 12x the market share of OS X, its ok to compare the two, but you can't compare Linux vs MAC because of the 7x difference. That just doesn't make sense.
Also, what's wrong with installing Linux myself? I installed windows 7 myself too on a machine I built. The parts I picked probably rival in quality compared to Apple parts, and meanwhile I get to do immaculate wiring inside and even get to overclock my PC. Is that not allowed in the discussion because it is something I am in control of? That's something that keeps PC enthusiasts from switching to MAC. We can customize our hardware in dozens of ways. But wait, since it doesn't come standard from some manufacturer who buys simpleton parts but marks the shit out of them, its not allowed in this conversation right?
I've already been banned for being an ass in these kinds of threads. I'm not giving in again. I don't think we're understanding each other here. Frankly I'm thinking I'm not getting my point across at all. So ima just stop posting here.
On February 19 2011 14:42 Cloud wrote: I've already been banned for being an ass in these kinds of threads. I'm not giving in again. I don't think we're understanding each other here. Frankly I'm thinking I'm not getting my point across at all. So ima just stop posting here.
Don't be an ass then and try harder to get your point across? Use sources that aren't biased and do a little bit more research too. As long as the thread remains an intellectual debate, I don't see any harm.
I own a macbook because it is white and I am a white supremacist. The surging popularity of Apple Macs is more of a race related protest than a hipster trend crusade.
People buy macs (and anything else) for many different reasons. They might've seen the right commercial, not known enough about the alternatives, been told otherwise, preferred the cosmetics or just decided to on a whim. So many factors influence consumer choice that trying to figure out why people buy what they buy is ridiculous.
You can argue specifications, framerates, hardware, software and functionality but whose to say that the buy knew about all (or any) of these things?
On February 19 2011 04:46 Body_Shield wrote: I know a guy who worked at Logitech in the call center (tech help), he said he got more calls from Macs crashing than he did Vista.
Logitech was also known for creating lousy software for OSX, including a Control Center that installs an input manager, a sort of hack that uses non-supported, deprecated APIs.
Yeah pretty much. OSX or Windows 7 it doesn't matter, Logitech stuff that requires specific drivers will crash your computer sooner or later. Normally both operating systems are so stable that you'll never encounter a kernel panic or error screen but it seems its pretty easy to force one of these if you play around with a Logitech webcam for an hour.
Awful hardware, only good thing they've ever made are keyboards and mice and even then Microsoft does a better job IMHO.
You are wrong AyeH, since the human eye and the subsequent perception system does not know about "fps". This immediately obvious if you remember that cinema only has 24fps @ 72Hz (that is, each frame is usually displayed 3 times to reduce flicker). Digital cinema might have higher Hz numbers. Do you notice the "low" fps in Cinema? You don't, even if the 24fps there is below the 30fps threshold mentioned earlier.
You can notice the difference between 30 to 60 to even 120 FPS assuming the hardware can render every single frame. Compare a modern day documentary with a cinema movie and you can tell the difference between the two...24 FPS is still around due to legacy, hardware, post-processing and aesthetic reasons.
You don't care about the 24 FPS because its a bloody film, and would probably look better at 24 FPS instead of 60 anyway, but if you play a game at 24 FPS, it plays and feels like ass because its not smooth and you're actually interacting with the medium instead of simply sitting there and watching.
I operate a company bought macbookpro. The best computer I ever used. Great screen, large touch pad with gesture support (thinkpad, your clit sucks), nice keyboard, more than 1 hour battery power, a few seconds from closed to operational, no inevitable performance degradation (windows, you suck), sit on the couch and code. 2250$. Seriously considering getting one for myself.
Only reason to buy Mac is for some of the softwares that only work on mac. If you bought one for any other reason then you're either delluded, a poor shopper in general or a dumbass that installs every god dam thing you find on the internet.
On February 15 2011 13:17 Catch]22 wrote: Not good with computers (and got no reason not to spend silly amounts of money on a computer?) Get a Mac
Decent with computers? Get a PC
Got no life? Get Linux
linux isnt for the incompetent. you can use linux and still be socially active, if you cant deal with being a computer illiterate then it's your problem.
On February 15 2011 13:17 Catch]22 wrote: Not good with computers (and got no reason not to spend silly amounts of money on a computer?) Get a Mac
Decent with computers? Get a PC
Got no life? Get Linux
linux isnt for the incompetent. you can use linux and still be socially active, if you cant deal with being a computer illiterate then it's your problem.
Linux has come a LONG LONG way. 10 years ago I made fun of my friend for using it because all it had was command line (although I'm sure GUIs were available, just no one used them). seriously, i thought he was a super nerd. now, with distros like ubuntu, you have ALL of your social media crap, tons of messaging options, and all sorts of other things available. the only things that suck are openoffice and lack of games. otherwise, it's an excellent choice. pop it in, install, watch endless amounts of porn from sketch ass sites w/o having to worry about viruses.
It's just funny to see how every single PC laptop I see becomes crap after a year and something in it dies.
I've owned my first MBP since they switched to Intel, which is 5 years. I am playing SC2 on low settings, but I am playing it and it works fine. Try to find a PC laptop which is 5 years old and plays SC2. The only thing that is not working that great anymore is the battery which was a problem with the constant charging, that's fixed by now.
Ever seen and used an iMac? Take out of box, plug in power cord, run. Works. Will always work. Helping parents with their virusses and spyware? Get a Mac. Never a problem again.
The problem with Macs is when to buy them. Buy when they get released, you'll be fine and get similar prices on similar performances PC/Mac wise.
There are people out there who just need a computer which they plug in and use. Where they don't have to visit a store 5 times because the hardware they got from 10 different stores is not compatible. A OS that's installed and will work forever and doesn't get slow after a while.
Most importantly, professionals don't care if the computer costs 3K. For someone who is only willing to spend 500 on something to play SC2 with, stick to that, but once you enter the professional world you'll see why anyone would ever buy a Mac.
My power supply failed once btw. I went to the Apple Store the same evening and got a new one. For free although my warranty was expired for at least 3 years. Try that with an online bought product.
Oh, and installing OSX on anything else than a Mac is illegal. There has been cases where companies went down because of illegal software.
you're deluded. ignorance really IS bliss, i wont waste my time arguing with teenage hipster kids who sit in starbucks with their MBPs thinking they're professional "artists."
On February 21 2011 21:32 Xax wrote: It's just funny to see how every single PC laptop I see becomes crap after a year and something in it dies.
I've owned my first MBP since they switched to Intel, which is 5 years. I am playing SC2 on low settings, but I am playing it and it works fine. Try to find a PC laptop which is 5 years old and plays SC2. The only thing that is not working that great anymore is the battery which was a problem with the constant charging, that's fixed by now.
Ever seen and used an iMac? Take out of box, plug in power cord, run. Works. Will always work. Helping parents with their virusses and spyware? Get a Mac. Never a problem again.
The problem with Macs is when to buy them. Buy when they get released, you'll be fine and get similar prices on similar performances PC/Mac wise.
There are people out there who just need a computer which they plug in and use. Where they don't have to visit a store 5 times because the hardware they got from 10 different stores is not compatible. A OS that's installed and will work forever and doesn't get slow after a while.
Most importantly, professionals don't care if the computer costs 3K. For someone who is only willing to spend 500 on something to play SC2 with, stick to that, but once you enter the professional world you'll see why anyone would ever buy a Mac.
My power supply failed once btw. I went to the Apple Store the same evening and got a new one. For free although my warranty was expired for at least 3 years. Try that with an online bought product.
Oh, and installing OSX on anything else than a Mac is illegal. There has been cases where companies went down because of illegal software.
You start out by saying PC laptops become crap after a few years and something int it dies. Then at the end of your argument, you state something that has failed you but you make very little of it. It is still something that has failed you isn't it? I would say the power cord is definitely still very important to a laptop.
The parts inside an apple laptop are NO DIFFERENT than those of other laptops. Please don't be delusional into thinking that the extra hundreds of dollars people spend on an apple product makes the parts sparkle more or run faster. A i7 920 processor in an apple will be the exact same in a pc. No difference.
Also, professionals don't care if a computer is 3k? In any profession, professional means being really good at something. In order to be good, you need to be efficient and not waste your resources and assets such as cash. If you can be just as, if not more professional with a PC computer, it is logical to purchase a PC since it is much cheaper and upgradeable. Also, PCs have more variety. You don't see Apple Tablets (or at least I don't think so) that performs just like a computer. It has the same interface as the itouch and iphone and is severely limited, while on a PC Tablet, you can do anything you can on a regular PC. And it doesn't cost an arm and a leg..
Also, I own a sony AR laptop from the beginning of my high school years (~6 years ago) and it still runs SC2 on low just as well as any Mac that is out right now (Most macs can only run SC2 normally on low).
And also, the reason OSX is limited in use is because they can only be used on the overpriced hardware of apple computers. If they supported all different types of hardware, the OSX would be much better. But why limit the hardware ability of the computer? I don't understand. It probably all goes back to Apple trying to make more money (sure, other corps do that too).
edit: fixed a sentence
also, i had a netbook for two years that was really efficient, had literally 8 hours of battery life, and only broke when my sister stepped on the screen. it still worked afterwards, i just couldn't see the other half of the screen. try not to over generalize the PC laptop category or it makes your argument invalid and ludicrous. if pc laptops died after a year, people with any common sense would all be buying apple laptops for the ridiculous prices. that's not the case since more than 90 percent of computers are pc's and more than 90 of those run windows.
EPT
or you're loaded and you don't mind blowing 1k 
.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Gdq61.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/5775288/yo-can-i-use-ur-pc-installs-bonzi-buddy.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Scumbag-Steve)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DqoIX.jpg)
even linux is better at gaming. to game on a mac, you want to put windows os onto the mac ><.
