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On February 18 2011 16:05 jacen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 02:50 AyeH wrote:
stop attacking the arguer instead of his argument. and also, it's 60 fps for humans, not 30fps. get your "educated reasoning" right please. 30fps?! that's horrible... lol Don't wanna get involved into this mac thing, but had to comment here. You are wrong AyeH, since the human eye and the subsequent perception system does not know about "fps". This immediately obvious if you remember that cinema only has 24fps @ 72Hz (that is, each frame is usually displayed 3 times to reduce flicker). Digital cinema might have higher Hz numbers. Do you notice the "low" fps in Cinema? You don't, even if the 24fps there is below the 30fps threshold mentioned earlier. On the other hand, some people can identify aircraft types flashed to them only for the length of 1/200th of a second which is equivalent to 200fps. If you want to know more about how human visual perception works, start here: http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htmI personally noticed the difference between 85 and 125 fps on my old CRT screen in quake 3, not only because of the movement but it would also render much smoother.
In terms of gaming, you can definitely notice if the frames drop to 24fps. I wasn't talking about cinema.
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On February 19 2011 01:53 Cloud wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 17:38 yourwhiteshadow wrote:On February 18 2011 17:21 Cloud wrote:Yeah.. I guess the little app factory was dumb enough to not realize that there are more than 5 million people studying in a school or working in a company and make "real IT work", oh wait.. And what's that? You did not say that "people in the IT industry rarely look at MACs" you said and I quote: No one in the IT world even considers purchasing Apple crap. But it's good progress that you just changed no one for rarely. Maybe once you get your head out of your ass and realize that you didn't even have to navigate out of this page to find an example of a software company using Macs then you'll make an even more reasonable assumption. Also, your mac is too slow for what? Gaming? Or some actual work? The same cheap processors found in your average highschooler's comp were used 2-3 years ago to power up servers like yahoo's. Hardware advances way faster than software you know. Do you realize what I'm trying to say? I'm trying to say people in the IT industry that do IT work. I'm not taking into account their personal lives. Find me a legitimate handful of companies that have an IT department that rips ipod songs or w/e that program does. There isn't one. TheLittleAppFactory just writes software for personal use. Yeah they are an exception to my rule, but c'mon, someone has to write the software for MACs. I mean, Adobe brought CS5 to the MAC... You're counting the obvious software companies that write software FOR macs, I'm not. Also, I obviously checked out the little app factory's website, and how dumb do you think I am to not realize that there are independent vendors that write and sell software for MAC? My mac is too slow for tons of stuff. Have you ever tried making a 48"x36" poster with tons of scientific data in Adobe Illustrator on a MBP? Yeah, have fun with that. Have you tried rendering molecular models of proteins on a dual core for a publication? Let me know when you've done those things. Have you ever tried to do special effects in Adobe After Effects? Does that qualify for "actual work"? A ridiculous amount of computing intensive research takes place on Linux. Other stuff is pretty much more cost effective on "PCs". Oh hold up, my building's retina access database and badge access is done through a Windows machine...big surprise. I think you need to get out of your egocentric mindset and realize that the world does not revolve around you or any single person. MACs are essentially only good for one thing, and ironically that is for being a personal computer. Yeah, you can use it for work, like CS5, making music, etc, but you can use a "PC" for those things as well. I hope you hold Apple shares, otherwise you're just a pawn in their ridiculous moneymaking scheme. Of course the same processors in your average high schooler's comp were used to power up yahoo servers 2-3 years ago. That's because thanks to operating systems such as linux, you can cluster computers to provide ridiculous amounts of power. You keep mentioning Linux and for whatever reason I can't understand, you also compare it to a Mac. What does the OS have to do with anything? We're talking about computers here. And either way, Linux doesn't come bundled in almost any machine in the market. You either buy a Windows machine or a Mac OS machine and then install your flavor of Linux. The only explanation I can think of is that since you're assuming that Macs are sooo much more expensive than regular PCs then you absolutely must use their OS. But wait, the actual total cost of ownership of a Windows machine is higher than that of a Mac OS machine. Funny how you mention Adobe and Linux in the same breath. Adobe is notorious for not giving adequate support for anything that isn't Windows. Particularly if you're talking about Linux. Every program of theirs pretty much sucks ass is you're trying to use it on a Linux machine. And well, you assume that your company uses Windows for their retina access databases because it's the best choice? How did you come to that conclusion? Are you a programmer? - obviously not. Is the guy who decided to use Windows a programmer? You know in the IT world, standard practice is not best practice. For proof of that you only need to read any blog about a successful startup and you'll notice that not a single one of them ever used any proprietary technology (read: standard or popular technology). Oh and if you ask them what kind of computers they used? Well first off, laptops are an absolute must and macbooks are jut unparalleled, besides their cost when compared to an equivalent Windows laptop (in Hardware parts) is almost the same, but you get everything from design to superior customer support, and better support for other OSs that just doesn't come with Windows laptops. And you're calling me egocentric? Screw you dude, you're the one that claimed that no one in the IT world would ever consider using macs, you were proved wrong. You used phrases like "my rule" and "people in IT business who do IT work" to demean those who (in your opinion) don't, when you're obviously not a programmer. I don't even need to like Macs to tell you're completely wrong since you're so intent on dealing with absolutes.
You're viewpoints are so narrow-minded and limited. I suppose this is because you're too busy watching potheads on MAC commercials only mention Windows vs MAC. I know MAC users don't view any computer manufacturer except Apple as a legitimate company, but Dell for a long time has shipped computers with Ubuntu:
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&l=en&cs=19
Please try and dispute Dell as an illegitimate computer manafacturer. Also, check out HP if Dell isn't legit enough for you, here are some servers if you're interested:
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/servers/byos/linuxservers.html
Obviously my point is that the computer world doesn't revolve around Windows and OS X. You must be oblivious to the fact that major corporations around the world are completely switching to Linux. Take a look at Google for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goobuntu, that's their own Ubuntu distro that half the company uses. Google Chrome OS which has shipped out with prototype netbooks, is a Linux based machine. Oh hey, Android OS is a modified Linux kernel. Android's market share is no 53% making them the market leader. Do you want to argue with that?
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/01/31/npd-android-os-phones-now-outsell-everyone-else-in-us-combined/
You're viewpoints are so limited and one sided that its hillarious. You need to open up a little bit. I might sound like a Linux fan boy, but I don't really like it that much. I just know that its important to me as a web developer/programmer. The office software for Linux is sub-par and depending on which industry you are in, the software for that industry isn't that great either. The only reason I use Linux on my desktop at home is for eye candy and screen macros. I also have a server set up for media stuff, but aside from that I use Windows 7 on my desktop. I use all three operating systems. To be honest, each one has its own place and they are highly replaceable. I don't need any particular OS to get a certain job done, just some are better than others at doing a particular task.
Anyways, I'm surprised people use MACs, I suppose looking hip is a necessity. That's cool with me. And if those developers want to continue to have pink slip penny stocks, then that's cool with me too. I think we can all look at Google's ~$600 stock price as proof of efficiency, excellent decision making, and a mark of triumph. Of course Google probably uses MACs, but they're making an empire out of Linux. The computing world doesn't revolve around Windows and MAC obviously. They all have their place, if you're the awesome developer you say you are you will realize this. If you can't accept that, then good luck to you and the company you work for.
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Uh ok, two things. I never said I was a super awesome developer and I thought I made myself clear when I said that we weren't discussing OSs but computers? Especially Linux and co. shouldn't be included with PCs because you can install it anywhere and most of the time you have to do exactly that.
All that shit you're assuming when I never even dissed Linux? Yeah I said that it wasn't bundled in almost any computer in the market because it's true --that's not the same as saying that no one uses it, but the market doesn't care about tiny groups who can't settle on the technology they use. And i'm also not saying that it isn't bundled anywhere, you found 2 of the exceptions, mostly market research i dare think. I know IBM had this project a while ago trying to sell laptops with linux on them to rural china. It's still a very small market and Ubuntu is but only one of the many free unices.
But hey I'm always ok with humoring people. I never expected to have someone bitch at me about dissing linux. Since everyone keeps saying mac people must feel hip I guess it must be true.
Fun fact: I've never actually seen an entire Apple commercial, they're rarer in Mexico than you think.
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On February 19 2011 04:46 Body_Shield wrote:
I know a guy who worked at Logitech in the call center (tech help), he said he got more calls from Macs crashing than he did Vista.
Logitech was also known for creating lousy software for OSX, including a Control Center that installs an input manager, a sort of hack that uses non-supported, deprecated APIs.
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On February 19 2011 13:50 Cloud wrote:
Uh ok, two things. I never said I was a super awesome developer and I thought I made myself clear when I said that we weren't discussing OSs but computers? Especially Linux and co. shouldn't be included with PCs because you can install it anywhere and most of the time you have to do exactly that.
All that shit you're assuming when I never even dissed Linux? Yeah I said that it wasn't bundled in almost any computer in the market because it's true --that's not the same as saying that no one uses it, but the market doesn't care about tiny groups who can't settle on the technology they use. And i'm also not saying that it isn't bundled anywhere, you found 2 of the exceptions, mostly market research i dare think. I know IBM had this project a while ago trying to sell laptops with linux on them to rural china. It's still a very small market and Ubuntu is but only one of the many free unices.
But hey I'm always ok with humoring people. I never expected to have someone bitch at me about dissing linux. Since everyone keeps saying mac people must feel hip I guess it must be true.
Fun fact: I've never actually seen an entire Apple commercial, they're rarer in Mexico than you think.
Oh so now we're discussing just computers? So are we just discussing laptops specifically or do cell phones not count? Ubuntu has been an offering on Dell's notebooks for quite a while now. Linux has been standard on many servers for quite a while. No one is going to pay for windows server when linux is free, and certainly no one is going to pay for Apple OS X Server because it is a joke. Do you want to pull the, popular software isn't the best software trick here? I suppose the thousands of servers running Linux don't count now. It isn't market research, its pure fact, linux is the server standard in these days. Even I run a home server to test applications, run my own file serve, and even run a few game servers on a Linux distro.
Why isn't Linux considered for "PCs"? You can definitely buy PCs with linux preinstalled, and you can most definitely install it onto any computer without breaking terms of service. I don't even like Linux because the third-party software support sucks ass; in fact, its almost non-existent because 99% of stuff on Linux has to be FOSS to even get downloaded. I don't know how you consider Linux small market but OS X isn't? Windows has a marketshare of approximately ~85%, OS X 7%, and Linux 1%. While Windows has over 12x the market share of OS X, its ok to compare the two, but you can't compare Linux vs MAC because of the 7x difference. That just doesn't make sense.
Also, what's wrong with installing Linux myself? I installed windows 7 myself too on a machine I built. The parts I picked probably rival in quality compared to Apple parts, and meanwhile I get to do immaculate wiring inside and even get to overclock my PC. Is that not allowed in the discussion because it is something I am in control of? That's something that keeps PC enthusiasts from switching to MAC. We can customize our hardware in dozens of ways. But wait, since it doesn't come standard from some manufacturer who buys simpleton parts but marks the shit out of them, its not allowed in this conversation right?
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I've already been banned for being an ass in these kinds of threads. I'm not giving in again. I don't think we're understanding each other here. Frankly I'm thinking I'm not getting my point across at all. So ima just stop posting here.
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On February 19 2011 14:42 Cloud wrote:
I've already been banned for being an ass in these kinds of threads. I'm not giving in again. I don't think we're understanding each other here. Frankly I'm thinking I'm not getting my point across at all. So ima just stop posting here.
Don't be an ass then and try harder to get your point across? Use sources that aren't biased and do a little bit more research too. As long as the thread remains an intellectual debate, I don't see any harm.
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I own a macbook because it is white and I am a white supremacist. The surging popularity of Apple Macs is more of a race related protest than a hipster trend crusade.
People buy macs (and anything else) for many different reasons. They might've seen the right commercial, not known enough about the alternatives, been told otherwise, preferred the cosmetics or just decided to on a whim. So many factors influence consumer choice that trying to figure out why people buy what they buy is ridiculous.
You can argue specifications, framerates, hardware, software and functionality but whose to say that the buy knew about all (or any) of these things?
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I find it hilarious that the OP was banned, and I declare this thread a raving success.
Posted from my Mac Mini (pre-nerf).
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5930 Posts
On February 19 2011 14:13 VManOfMana wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 04:46 Body_Shield wrote:
I know a guy who worked at Logitech in the call center (tech help), he said he got more calls from Macs crashing than he did Vista. Logitech was also known for creating lousy software for OSX, including a Control Center that installs an input manager, a sort of hack that uses non-supported, deprecated APIs.
Yeah pretty much. OSX or Windows 7 it doesn't matter, Logitech stuff that requires specific drivers will crash your computer sooner or later. Normally both operating systems are so stable that you'll never encounter a kernel panic or error screen but it seems its pretty easy to force one of these if you play around with a Logitech webcam for an hour.
Awful hardware, only good thing they've ever made are keyboards and mice and even then Microsoft does a better job IMHO.
You are wrong AyeH, since the human eye and the subsequent perception system does not know about "fps". This immediately obvious if you remember that cinema only has 24fps @ 72Hz (that is, each frame is usually displayed 3 times to reduce flicker). Digital cinema might have higher Hz numbers. Do you notice the "low" fps in Cinema? You don't, even if the 24fps there is below the 30fps threshold mentioned earlier.
You can notice the difference between 30 to 60 to even 120 FPS assuming the hardware can render every single frame. Compare a modern day documentary with a cinema movie and you can tell the difference between the two...24 FPS is still around due to legacy, hardware, post-processing and aesthetic reasons.
You don't care about the 24 FPS because its a bloody film, and would probably look better at 24 FPS instead of 60 anyway, but if you play a game at 24 FPS, it plays and feels like ass because its not smooth and you're actually interacting with the medium instead of simply sitting there and watching.
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I operate a company bought macbookpro. The best computer I ever used. Great screen, large touch pad with gesture support (thinkpad, your clit sucks), nice keyboard, more than 1 hour battery power, a few seconds from closed to operational, no inevitable performance degradation (windows, you suck), sit on the couch and code. 2250$. Seriously considering getting one for myself.
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Only reason to buy Mac is for some of the softwares that only work on mac. If you bought one for any other reason then you're either delluded, a poor shopper in general or a dumbass that installs every god dam thing you find on the internet.
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I probably wouldn't buy a mac. But where I work you get the choice of a MacbookPro or Lenovo Thinkpad.... I took the MBPro.
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On February 15 2011 13:17 Catch]22 wrote:
Not good with computers (and got no reason not to spend silly amounts of money on a computer?)
Get a Mac
Decent with computers?
Get a PC
Got no life?
Get Linux
linux isnt for the incompetent. you can use linux and still be socially active, if you cant deal with being a computer illiterate then it's your problem.
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On February 21 2011 08:48 limonovich wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2011 13:17 Catch]22 wrote:
Not good with computers (and got no reason not to spend silly amounts of money on a computer?)
Get a Mac
Decent with computers?
Get a PC
Got no life?
Get Linux linux isnt for the incompetent. you can use linux and still be socially active, if you cant deal with being a computer illiterate then it's your problem.
Linux has come a LONG LONG way. 10 years ago I made fun of my friend for using it because all it had was command line (although I'm sure GUIs were available, just no one used them). seriously, i thought he was a super nerd. now, with distros like ubuntu, you have ALL of your social media crap, tons of messaging options, and all sorts of other things available. the only things that suck are openoffice and lack of games. otherwise, it's an excellent choice. pop it in, install, watch endless amounts of porn from sketch ass sites w/o having to worry about viruses.
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openoffice is fine. if you want games - dual boot with windows
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It's just funny to see how every single PC laptop I see becomes crap after a year and something in it dies.
I've owned my first MBP since they switched to Intel, which is 5 years. I am playing SC2 on low settings, but I am playing it and it works fine. Try to find a PC laptop which is 5 years old and plays SC2. The only thing that is not working that great anymore is the battery which was a problem with the constant charging, that's fixed by now.
Ever seen and used an iMac? Take out of box, plug in power cord, run. Works. Will always work. Helping parents with their virusses and spyware? Get a Mac. Never a problem again.
The problem with Macs is when to buy them. Buy when they get released, you'll be fine and get similar prices on similar performances PC/Mac wise.
There are people out there who just need a computer which they plug in and use. Where they don't have to visit a store 5 times because the hardware they got from 10 different stores is not compatible. A OS that's installed and will work forever and doesn't get slow after a while.
Most importantly, professionals don't care if the computer costs 3K. For someone who is only willing to spend 500 on something to play SC2 with, stick to that, but once you enter the professional world you'll see why anyone would ever buy a Mac.
My power supply failed once btw. I went to the Apple Store the same evening and got a new one. For free although my warranty was expired for at least 3 years. Try that with an online bought product.
Oh, and installing OSX on anything else than a Mac is illegal. There has been cases where companies went down because of illegal software.
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you're deluded. ignorance really IS bliss, i wont waste my time arguing with teenage hipster kids who sit in starbucks with their MBPs thinking they're professional "artists."
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On February 21 2011 21:32 Xax wrote:
It's just funny to see how every single PC laptop I see becomes crap after a year and something in it dies.
I've owned my first MBP since they switched to Intel, which is 5 years. I am playing SC2 on low settings, but I am playing it and it works fine. Try to find a PC laptop which is 5 years old and plays SC2. The only thing that is not working that great anymore is the battery which was a problem with the constant charging, that's fixed by now.
Ever seen and used an iMac? Take out of box, plug in power cord, run. Works. Will always work. Helping parents with their virusses and spyware? Get a Mac. Never a problem again.
The problem with Macs is when to buy them. Buy when they get released, you'll be fine and get similar prices on similar performances PC/Mac wise.
There are people out there who just need a computer which they plug in and use. Where they don't have to visit a store 5 times because the hardware they got from 10 different stores is not compatible. A OS that's installed and will work forever and doesn't get slow after a while.
Most importantly, professionals don't care if the computer costs 3K. For someone who is only willing to spend 500 on something to play SC2 with, stick to that, but once you enter the professional world you'll see why anyone would ever buy a Mac.
My power supply failed once btw. I went to the Apple Store the same evening and got a new one. For free although my warranty was expired for at least 3 years. Try that with an online bought product.
Oh, and installing OSX on anything else than a Mac is illegal. There has been cases where companies went down because of illegal software.
You start out by saying PC laptops become crap after a few years and something int it dies. Then at the end of your argument, you state something that has failed you but you make very little of it. It is still something that has failed you isn't it? I would say the power cord is definitely still very important to a laptop.
The parts inside an apple laptop are NO DIFFERENT than those of other laptops. Please don't be delusional into thinking that the extra hundreds of dollars people spend on an apple product makes the parts sparkle more or run faster. A i7 920 processor in an apple will be the exact same in a pc. No difference.
Also, professionals don't care if a computer is 3k? In any profession, professional means being really good at something. In order to be good, you need to be efficient and not waste your resources and assets such as cash. If you can be just as, if not more professional with a PC computer, it is logical to purchase a PC since it is much cheaper and upgradeable. Also, PCs have more variety. You don't see Apple Tablets (or at least I don't think so) that performs just like a computer. It has the same interface as the itouch and iphone and is severely limited, while on a PC Tablet, you can do anything you can on a regular PC. And it doesn't cost an arm and a leg..
Also, I own a sony AR laptop from the beginning of my high school years (~6 years ago) and it still runs SC2 on low just as well as any Mac that is out right now (Most macs can only run SC2 normally on low).
And also, the reason OSX is limited in use is because they can only be used on the overpriced hardware of apple computers. If they supported all different types of hardware, the OSX would be much better. But why limit the hardware ability of the computer? I don't understand. It probably all goes back to Apple trying to make more money (sure, other corps do that too).
edit:
fixed a sentence
also, i had a netbook for two years that was really efficient, had literally 8 hours of battery life, and only broke when my sister stepped on the screen. it still worked afterwards, i just couldn't see the other half of the screen. try not to over generalize the PC laptop category or it makes your argument invalid and ludicrous. if pc laptops died after a year, people with any common sense would all be buying apple laptops for the ridiculous prices. that's not the case since more than 90 percent of computers are pc's and more than 90 of those run windows.
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because logic > pro tools
also hackintosh confuses the hell out of me
random stuff is better on macs, like trackpads and stuff. and they look cool, i'll admit it
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EPT
