EPTGomTV protecting Boxer? - Page 5
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On November 30 2010 13:40 DentThat wrote: The proportions for each race for season 3 Terran: 39.5% Protoss: 33% Zerg: 23.9% Random: 3.6% NO that's not right, that was people who tried to qualify. Zerg had 27 people (most out of everyone). | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
On November 30 2010 15:02 travis wrote: well, im also pretty disgusted by the amount of people that seem to think it would be ok (or are even supportive of) purposeful rigging of a competitive tournament, especially one with such a large prize pool. 10000% agree. Not saying GOMtv DID rig their tournament, but after reading like 3/4 of the posts here, many of which support a rigging of a tournament so early in the life of a competitive game, I am honestly shocked. Are people oblivious to the fact that the livelihood of the other players are also at stake in such a tournament? That they feel that it's okay to do it so that they can see the more popular players go at it in the later rounds. I mean yeah it's great for fans and it would be beneficial for GOMtv to have it that way too. But people forget that the true focus of e-sports should be supporting the players. And no I do not mean supporting the veterans/hyped players. Everyone needs to have a somewhat fair chance. From a GSL thread, On November 13 2010 22:22 Kluwn wrote: " I'm gonna be talking my own things now as there isn't anything important to translate. First of all I'd like to say I have a great respect for NesTea not just because he won the tournament but because this guy had the courage to do what he wanted to do and proved he was right.I'm saying this because too many people even in Korea consider playing games is a waste of time.I, myself, was unemployed for 2 years *laughs*, bout a year and a half before I joined GOM.All I did was play games at home and my friends would say that I'm wasting my life.Well...uhm..who's laughing now ?. I asked them " Can you honestly say that you like your job " and I asked them " Do you have a fan who draws a fanart just for you ? ". That shuts them up. So everytime you feel ashamed of being a nerd and your friends, teachers, neighbours and even parents think gaming is a waste of time you'll remember there's no such thing as wasting life as long as you have the courage to do what you like and be passionate about it.You'll remember , if NesTea listened to all those critics he wouldn't be standing there with a trophy and you'll remember that even if you feel nobody around you supports you that I, Jay, Artosis and Tasteless, everyone in GOM will support you.Why ? Because we believe in esports. *someone in the backgroud :"wow" * *Junkka laughs* .I actually prepared this" Sorry if I butchered any words. <3 If they did encourage participation of their tournament, but blatantly made it so top players were favored in either a map pool or in a choice of match-up, well, basically that is a slap in the face to the newcomers to the scene, at least in the opinion. Also, to me, this does not seem like the right way to promote e-sports. (Once again I'm not saying GOM rigged anything). Here's an example. You're  TurN, a really promising rookie (he's seriously 7-0 in PL) who just made it through to the Ro32 of OSL. Wow you're on your way to a Royal Road. Lets assume advancing through rounds increases your payout exponentially. OGN sets up their own Ro32 brackets (not based on Ro64).Grats, you're paired up against  Bisu, arguably #1 Protoss in BW, who was knocked out early last OSL and thus OGN wants him to advance to Ro16 this season to make the brackets more interesting.Okay not too bad. It's still possible that you might win. Then OGN removes the thumbs down feature on their Map pool. It ends up being: TurN vs BisuGame 1: Central Plains Game 2: Empire of the Sun Game 3: Central Plains (Really farfetched, but meh trying to illustrate a point I guess) Central Plains is a heavily Protoss favored map. 25ish PvPs so far. How would you feel? From what I understand for GSL, at least according to the thread I searched for here, Ro16 is worth 4 more times prize money than Ro32. It's one thing to get randomly matched up against someone really good (like OSL group selection etc), but if it wasn't, that's over $1000 USD that you just lost to a tournament wanting to showcase their star attractions in the final rounds. If you have read it up till this point, thanks for reading, I felt strongly compelled to voice my opinion regarding this. Edit: wow i totally screwed up using TLPD, fixed that LOL slightly embarassing | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
I think people always over-read the fixing of this and that and try to attribute to their own paranoia. Once a week i swear I see some poster claiming "fixed" or some ridiculous attribution to why this and this went on. I think we will never be able to prove they are fixing it and even if they are fixing the bracket they are obviously doing it in a very balanced way..... | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
On November 30 2010 16:36 adeezy wrote: I get the opinion you are saying IntoTheEmo, but regardless of bracket fixing.... if you deserve to win the tournament you win all of your matches it's that simple. Sure last season we could've saw fruitdealer run further if he didnt meet MarineKing earlier, or TLO could've had an easier match. However.... you can tell by the brackets that it's pretty much solid brackets, none of the ro64s are overtly close between two titans or two of the same people. Which the exception of Leenock vs Clide. I think people always over-read the fixing of this and that and try to attribute to their own paranoia. Once a week i swear I see some poster claiming "fixed" or some ridiculous attribution to why this and this went on. I think we will never be able to prove they are fixing it and even if they are fixing the bracket they are obviously doing it in a very balanced way..... But see that's the thing, every advancement through the rounds increases your prize money by a lot more. It's not just about winning the entire thing; not everyone expects to win, but every round counts. And if the newcomers/rookies get screwed by the tournament even during an earlier round, that's hundreds or thousands of dollars on line here, and if found guilty of doing it, well I guess that would be a huge turn off for new blood to participate -> bad for e-sports. Once again I stress that I'm not accusing GOM of rigging, just a "what if" followed by an opinion of such a situation and why I disagree with the support people are giving "if" they "did" do it. Everyone seems to be coming from the viewers point of view. Yeah more viewers are nice sure, but players should be the priority of any e-sport. | ||
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Liveon
Netherlands1083 Posts
If there would be more exciting matchups at the start, they would have more viewers for RO64 matches. Now they postpone everything to later in the tournament, so that they have more viewers then. The amount of viewers stays the same, it's just another way of spreading them in the tournament. | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
On November 30 2010 16:40 IntoTheEmo wrote: But see that's the thing, every advancement through the rounds increases your prize money by a lot more. It's not just about winning the entire thing; not everyone expects to win, but every round counts. And if the newcomers/rookies get screwed by the tournament even during an earlier round, that's hundreds or thousands of dollars on line here, and if found guilty of doing it, well I guess that would be a huge turn off for new blood to participate -> bad for e-sports. Once again I stress that I'm not accusing GOM of rigging, just a "what if" followed by an opinion of such a situation and why I disagree with the support people are giving "if" they "did" do it. To be honest I'd rather see the smaller guys the new cormers and rookies lose int he earlier round than have the titans clash earlier. We didn't expect MarineKing to beat Fruit Dealer but he did. Upsets are what make it even more interesting. I bet they didn't expect Rainbow to lose this early (no one did of course), but this is what makes it all that much more interesting. That's how seeds work usually anyways... They make it so the bigger name players face each other in later rounds And to the post above. just wanted to respond real quick. I actually think this was the most entertaining round of 64 of all the GSLs. There was the rainbow game upset (GS HELL, tasteless made me laugh hardcore ont hat one). Clide vs Leenock, and there was also that really really entertaining protoss who went for chronoboosting to 20 probes and getting a fast nexus.... to a really awesome army comp. This GSL has been really enjoyable for me | ||
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Jarhead
United States53 Posts
Given a large enough set of data, you can always find coincidences. | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
On November 30 2010 16:45 adeezy wrote: To be honest I'd rather see the smaller guys the new cormers and rookies lose int he earlier round than have the titans clash earlier. We didn't expect MarineKing to beat Fruit Dealer but he did. Upsets are what make it even more interesting. I bet they didn't expect Rainbow to lose this early (no one did of course), but this is what makes it all that much more interesting. That's how seeds work usually anyways... They make it so the bigger name players face each other in later rounds And to the post above. just wanted to respond real quick. I actually think this was the most entertaining round of 64 of all the GSLs. There was the rainbow game upset (GS HELL, tasteless made me laugh hardcore ont hat one). Clide vs Leenock, and there was also that really really entertaining protoss who went for chronoboosting to 20 probes and getting a fast nexus.... to a really awesome army comp. This GSL has been really enjoyable for me That's what you (and arguably what most people) would want to see, but see, it's not a question of viewership/numbers. Is it right to send rookies out as sacrificial lambs to the big players? (Having a random selection is one thing, but fixing it to be so doesn't seem fair to the player to me). That's the point myself (and travis presumably) want to bring across. It's about the players, not the entertainment value, which people seem to want to put priority on to at the moment. | ||
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cablesc
United States1540 Posts
On November 30 2010 13:31 DentThat wrote: More facts: In the GSL3, RO64, theres only 2 TvT's, Boxer gets 1 In RO32, only 2 TvT's, Boxer gets 1 In the GSL2 RO16, there's only 1 TvT, Boxer gets it In the RO8, only 1 TvT, Boxer gets it! These aren't facts. They're statistical anomalies. The only way they could be rigged is if the players actually threw games. Otherwise, you can't guarantee which players will get through to each round. In GSL 2 for instance, Loner went 2-1 against a protoss and a zerg in the ro64 and ro32, one more loss in either set and he's gone. Nada played a tough 2-1 match vs Leenock, who is looking like he could be one of the top zergs in GSL 3. Two games that go another way and Boxer would have played only 1 TvT in the tournament. Also before GSL 2 Boxer said that his weakest match was TvP. In the ro32 he faced up against a protoss. If they're rigging things for Boxer, why give him his weakest matchup in the ro32 and risk him losing out of the tournament. | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
On November 30 2010 16:49 IntoTheEmo wrote: That's what you (and arguably what most people) would want to see, but see, it's not a question of viewership/numbers. Is it right to send rookies out as sacrificial lambs to the big players? (Having a random selection is one thing, but fixing it to be so doesn't seem fair to the player to me). That's the point myself (and travis presumably) want to bring across. It's about the players, not the entertainment value, which people seem to want to put priority on to at the moment. Sure! That's why we have possible upsets. Upsets are incredibly enjoyable to the party who roots for the underdog. I for one love em! Even if it's against a player I root for. The entertainment value seems to be a dice roll and can come from anyone or anything (as long as its not overly cheesy or repetitive). At this stage of the game anyone go from rookie to star. Remember ro64 MarineKing performance? Or even... Do you remember ZergBong's performance in GSL1... It's arguable who are the definite "big players" and who are the "sacrificial lambs" because apparently a star can come from anywhere | ||
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DarkRise
1644 Posts
The only opponent that boxer went up against that is fairly good was loner before nada vs boxer and the fact that hes a foreigner season 3 boxer vs moon perhaps? 2 most anticipated match probably, well if its a ploy to get more viewers then business is business!! I know its unfair but its reality =/ also there were 27 zergs and out of all that boxer had to go against a nameless terran in RO64 I'm still a fan though lol | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
If not, I'm not sure how it could be rigged...it's just Terrans getting farther. | ||
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zak
Korea (South)1009 Posts
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necmon
194 Posts
At least from the legends you know that they were good in the past. From the rookies you know nothing at all. So you use your limited knowledge to create the best brackets possible. And yes, the best brackets possible are the ones where the legends at a later point of time. | ||
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dormer
United States1314 Posts
On November 30 2010 16:52 cablesc wrote: These aren't facts. They're statistical anomalies. The only way they could be rigged is if the players actually threw games. Otherwise, you can't guarantee which players will get through to each round. In GSL 2 for instance, Loner went 2-1 against a protoss and a zerg in the ro64 and ro32, one more loss in either set and he's gone. Nada played a tough 2-1 match vs Leenock, who is looking like he could be one of the top zergs in GSL 3. Two games that go another way and Boxer would have played only 1 TvT in the tournament. Also before GSL 2 Boxer said that his weakest match was TvP. In the ro32 he faced up against a protoss. If they're rigging things for Boxer, why give him his weakest matchup in the ro32 and risk him losing out of the tournament. Totally agree - you can't just look at how many TvTs he's played and say "must have been set up." The only round where Gom would directly control the matchups is the round of 64, after which who advances and who doesn't is impossible to predict. And who knows what method Gom used to set up the Ro64 brackets after the qualifiers - presumably they'd try to make each group fairly even in terms of difficulty, but how you figure that out can be highly subjective. I really don't think it's okay to accuse them of purposefully giving one player special treatment without any real evidence to support it. | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
On November 30 2010 16:55 adeezy wrote: Sure! That's why we have possible upsets. Upsets are incredibly enjoyable to the party who roots for the underdog. I for one love em! Even if it's against a player I root for. The entertainment value seems to be a dice roll and can come from anyone or anything (as long as its not overly cheesy or repetitive). At this stage of the game anyone go from rookie to star. Remember ro64 MarineKing performance? Or even... Do you remember ZergBong's performance in GSL1... It's arguable who are the definite "big players" and who are the "sacrificial lambs" because apparently a star can come from anywhere Note that my point isn't about whether rookies are able to beat the top players, and once again you're talking about yourself the viewer's point of view. Pretty much - my point: Is it right for a tournament to jeopardize the chances of a lesser-known player to earn more prize money by pitting him up against a more popular player on purpose, so that they have a better chance at advancing, via either maps or brackets favoring a certain match-up. Ro16 from Ro32 is 1.7k dollars from $400, keep that in mind. On November 30 2010 17:01 necmon wrote: You pair up Rookies versus Legends in earlier round because it's fair. You know that the legends already achieved something while the rookie has to prove himself still. It does NOT make ANY sense to put legends randomly against each other in early rounds. At least from the legends you know that they were good in the past. From the rookies you know nothing at all. So you use your limited knowledge to create the best brackets possible. And yes, the best brackets possible are the ones where the legends at a later point of time. Yeah in the qualifying rounds of course you wouldn't do it, that is also the purpose of seeds (I realize GOM doesn't have seeds yet). If you follow BW you'd know that past the very first qualifying round, the brackets are left as they are - whereas in GSL, they do the qualifiers, then sort out the Ro64 brackets - leaving room for speculation. Also, map pool is pretty standard in BW, whereas from what Plexa said earlier about Moon, it is sorta suspicious that he would get Zerg-favored maps when others did not, could be coincidence, but once again there's room for speculation. | ||
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AT_Tack
Germany435 Posts
On November 30 2010 13:38 PartyBiscuit wrote: [/b]First of all, I think it's pretty obvious that the Ro64 matches are planned and indeed not random (no foreigners killing one another, no legends killing one another, and Boxer gets the TvT). *cough* Boxer eliminated Nada in Season 2... | ||
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