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Did anyone post Junkka's response on the GOM forums? I skimmed through and didnt see it
+ Show Spoiler +Author: [GOM]Junkka| Views: 1,001| Posted Dec. 01, 2010| IP: 211.234.***.***| Comments : 37
I am getting tired of being accused that we rig the maps. Here are some facts.
1) I know nobody will believe me but maps are picked randomly. I spent 20 minutes building this stupid box in which we put papers with map names and draw them out. We take turns to draw the papers and also make sure it is properly mixed after drawing. It is very dull process but we do not complain. Please do not mention math because chance of winning lottery is about same chance as getting struck by lightening few times yet in reality people still win lotteries.
2) Why not use custom maps? Because GSL is open tournament and people without team can only practice on ladder. Of course it is possible to distribute custom maps through homepage but sadly not all SC2 players watch GSL. I do not think Blizzard will approve it anyway.
3) Why did we get rid of veto system? I remember viewers including many of you here complaining it was boring to see matches played on same maps over and over again. Also in the final it is best out of 7 and best of 5 in ro8&4 so players will eventually have to get confident on maps they do not like.
Source: http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/forum/6367
Edit: It goes over their map selection, but doesn't cover how they make the brackets.
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![[image loading]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/3096163722_1b7877e424_z.jpg?zz=1)
As long as this guy is around casting, I'll endure it... Tis all about entertainment!
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It's not that different from standard seeding of matches, so that the best players are more likely advance far. if they're seeding by reputation (being that they have little else to go on) that doesn't really bother me - they'll have ACTUAL seeding rank come next year's tournaments.
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boxer doing well is good for the game and esports, as long as players are not being paid to lose to him i dont see i problem with it, sure it my not be the most ethical thing but if it helps sc2 get exposure in its infancy then im all for it
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+ Show Spoiler +[QUOTE]On December 01 2010 15:29 MusiK wrote:
[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/3096163722_1b7877e424_z.jpg?zz=1[/img]
That's some seriously awesome photoshop skills 
On topic, I find it hard to believe that GOM would fix the maps to favor a player... And about the map veto system, when it's on we have the same maps over and over, and when it's off we see crappy maps. And by crappy I mean maps that favors a race too much (JB for P, SS for Z etc...).
But the GSL is supposed to get big in 2011 (I find it big already ^^) so maybe the map pool will be overhauled by Blizzard themselves after season 3 wraps up... who knows
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I'll go with not rigged, here is why I think that:
- In season 2 after he qualified I don't think there is really a legitimate way to tell that we was good at Terran vs. Terran other than him saying it in an interview. I don't think his match history is a clear indicator at all.
- Many other players have gotten ridiculously easy wins in the GSL round of 64/32, regardless of how known they were.
- He had to qualify just like everyone else, no special treatment there.
- If you put a bunch of good/popular players in a bracket, eventually some will end up playing each other. Boxer vs. Nada was one of those, and if Boxer faces Moon it will be the same. Sure they wouldn't put this in the very first round, but I would hardly consider that rigging.
- GSL has been fairly random so far, any rigging would be random as well. We have seen unknowns beat knowns, we have seen people deemed among the best fail to even qualify, and we have seen a player who only knew how to make Zerlings/Roaches and knew nothing of creep tumors in season 1 dominate just a month later. There is no clear way to rig this thing.
- Boxer is legit. He beat Loner (who showed he was a good player placing second at Blizzcon) and NaDa. Boxer and only Boxer had to win these games, and he did.
Give the legend some credit for practicing, having passion, and wanting to win. It is a little bit disheartening to see a lot of people in here discredit one of the very best and a man who is someone all of us look up to.
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I said some silly things in previous posts.
I don't think it was rigged anymore, and it was stupid to think so without real evidence.
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Everybody likes to see Boxer play but people watch the GSL to see the best players in the world, whether boxer is in it or not. GSL is a professional setup and would not 'fix matches'. It's a theory but there is a reason why conspiracy theories are laughed at by the mainstream because they are almost never based on anything remotely substantial, afraid to say this one is no different.
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On December 01 2010 06:39 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 05:34 MementoMori wrote:
There we go! Somebody who actually did the effort and has some numbers to back him up. Nice job Zocat. The numbers are actually kind of interesting outside of this discussion as well. Thanks  And since I am bored (and sick QQ): I assigned a strength value to each player. Not qualified: 0 RO64 appearance: 1 RO32 appearance: 2 RO16 appearance: 4 RO08 appearance: 8 RO04 appearance: 16 I believe anyone in Top4 could take the tournament - therefore I dont think I should give finalists / winner more strength (you could discuss this decision) So someone like Rainbow would have for GSL3: GSL1 RO02 + GSL2 RO04 = 16 + 16 = 32 Boxer would have: GSL 1 NQ + GSL2 RO04 = 0 + 16 = 16 Playertable (layout broken and I'm not going to fix it^^) + Show Spoiler +
name GSL1 GSL2 total
Players in GSL3 from GSL2:
Fruitdealer 16 2 18
ButterFlyEffect 0 1 1
MarineKing 0 16 16
Baby 0 1 1
Apple 0 1 1
Phoenix 0 2 2
TLO 2 1 3
SangHo 0 4 4
choya 0 1 1
Rain(T) 0 2 2
Ensnare 16 4 20
Suzy 0 1 1
Ace 0 2 2
KYumer 0 1 1
HongUn 8 1 9
Kyrix 0 8 8
Rainbow 16 16 32
Flint 0 1 1
Pippi 0 2 2
Cezanne 1 1 2
Hyperdub 4 1 5
san 4 2 6
Garnet 0 1 1
Check 4 4 8
InCa 8 4 12
Aya 0 1 1
Tankboy 2 2 4
Clide 4 1 5
Genius 1 8 9
rain(Z) 0 1 1
Sync 0 2 2
jookToJung 2 1 3
SlayersBoxer 0 16 16
Happiness 0 1 1
Core(JJang) 0 2 2
Bless(Lyn) 0 1 1
Bleach 2 1 3
Loner 0 4 4
Terious 0 2 2
Polt 2 1 3
LegalMind 4 1 5
Leenock 0 4 4
Suhoshin 0 2 2
FreeDSL 0 1 1
Cargo 0 1 1
Nada 0 8 8
ParkJongHyuk 0 2 2
Chief 0 1 1
Idra 2 4 6
Chickencombo 0 1 1
RexzanDarke 2 1 3
Gon 0 2 2
Sound 0 1 1
mvp 0 2 2
Jjakji 0 1 1
Zenio 2 8 10
Nestea 1 16 17
KangJiYoung 0 1 1
Overthezero 0 1 1
MC 1 2 3
LoveRip 0 1 1
TheWind 2 4 6
Maka 8 2 10
Banbanssu 0 1 1
Players in GSL3 & GSL1 (not GSL2):
anypro 4 0 4
JSL 1 0 1
Junwi 1 0 1
Everyone else has 0 strength. (Remark: I dont know if cOre is the same person as CoreJJang - I treated them as the same person) This leads to the following bracket strengths: For GSL2:Bracket A: 42 Bracket B: 46 Bracket C: 8 Bracket D: 18 For GSL3:using only GSL2 strength: Bracket A: 33 Bracket B: 28 Bracket C: 34 Bracket D: 30 using total strength: Bracket A: 47 Bracket B: 64 Bracket C: 46 Bracket D: 38 Take those numbers for what you want Boxer bracket was C in GSL 2 and is D in GSL3. Bracket D also looks interesting in GSL2. Maybe because of IdrA (only fan favourite I can see there)? Also keep in mind some players who placed very high in GSL1 (sSKS, TOP, LiveForever) didnt play in GSL2. If you place LiveForever & TOP in C and sSKS in D it looks pretty even suddenly. Only 3 16point amd 3 8point persons were in GSL2. So we're missing ~24points for 2 slots.
Did people not see this post? I think a lot of this post gives some food for thought, especially the GSL2 relative strengths per bracket.
It's not just about the matchup, it's more about the names around the bracket. Just look at the GSL2 Bracket C and look how many big names there are, now look how many big names are in the other brackets. Is it a coincidence that most of the unknown players except Boxer and Nada were in bracket C? Obviously it's impossible to 100% rig an outcome (unless you're match fixing), but there are ways to encourage an outcome, and this is one of them. Food for thought.
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Sorry but your post is blatant bullshit. You should be banned for even considering they RIG the GSL for viewers when you have HUGE UPSETS in the GSL...
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On November 30 2010 13:34 Whole wrote:
since GSL is new, i don't mind if they use these little cheats to support ESPORTS, but once the scene stabilizes, I hope they stop this if they are doing it on purpose.
I agree with this!
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On November 30 2010 14:18 DentThat wrote:
Your findings don't really correlate here Grebliv...
Cmon now, 8 out of 10 (including the upcoming Ro32) is TvT for Boxer.
Does 80% TvT, 10% TvP, 10% TvZ over 2 seasons not seem suspicious?
Here's the proper approach setup before we even start looking at your chosen data points: + Show Spoiler +Our goal is to find statistical evidence suggesting that GOM is trying to help Boxer thru to at least Ro8. (Something I agree with you that they are doing btw, but your arguments are weak. You're arguing it like people try to argue that a certain religion is true. They might be right but their logic sucks.)
Using the scientific method, we must use the converse of this to have something to start with:
Hypothesis: GOM is not trying to help Boxer through.
If we can find ANY evidence to the contrary, then the entire analysis will be support that GOM is trying to help Boxer thru the tourney.
For a sample to be statistically relevant and admissible for evidentiary support, these are minimum requirements:
Size of 40
Random
Let's examine:
Size of 40
25% there
Random
The later stages are not random, and while can be influenced slightly, are not determined by GOM. So we can eliminate 8 of your 10 series.
/facepalm
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On December 01 2010 11:44 DentThat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 11:10 Wetty wrote:Have you thought to look at any of the other terrans who got a fair way? Its possible they played more TvT's than BoxeR did  Yes, as stated in my first post, in the GSL3, RO64, only 2 TvT's, Boxer gets 1 In RO32, only 2 TvT's, Boxer gets 1 In the GSL2 RO16, there's only 1 TvT, Boxer gets it In the RO8, only 1 TvT, Boxer gets it! There is a surprisingly low number of TvT's and Boxers in the vast majority of them
Just because there were a low number of TvTs doesn't mean anything.
I already made a post where I said how many matches could have been TvTs, hint: it's almost every single match beyond the RO32.
Just because Boxer did get TvTs just means that in his part of his bracket, lots of Terrans were winning.
The only way you can rig it so Boxer gets lots of TvTs while they don't appear elsewhere, the ONLY WAY, is to rig the games by paying off players to lose and let Terrans through.
9 of 16 RO32 matches could have been TvT. Boxers was NOT
7 of 8 RO16 matches could have been TvT, Boxers was.
4 of 4 RO8 matches could have been TvT
2 of 2 RO4 matches
And the final could have been TvT.
The fact is that ANY Terran in ANY bracket could have got almost all TvTs, so no matter where Boxer was, he could have got a lot of TvTs in GSL2.
The fact that he therefore did is either due to chance through his bracket results going that way, or it's because GOM didn't rig the brackets, the rigged the MATCHES.
You aren't accusing GOM of favouring/protecting Boxer by setting up the brackets/groups so that he gets a lot of TvTs, you are accusing them of rigging matches so it occurs.
I repeat, WHEREVER HE WAS in the RO64 in GSL2, he could have had the same run of TvTs to the final. The ONLY part that is possibly "protection" is having a TvT in RO64. EVERYTHING ELSE is due to the way the results went and could have happened to ANY TERRAN.
I repeat, the ONLY WAY to ensure Boxer got lots of TvTs is to fix the matches in his bracket. Otherwise it's due to chance, and no matter where Boxer was, he could have got a whole line of TvTs, potentially, if previous results went the right way.
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GSL Spoilers
+ Show Spoiler +
Can we close the thread now? Sure, Boxer was always the last match, and perhaps he was given an easy Ro64, but there are so many variables in the brackets that you can't argue that everything is fixed.
Should we question every player's bracket and then come to the conclusion that it is all rigged? No, that isn't a reasonable conclusion.
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United States5657 Posts
I think you're ignorantly disregarding a lot of the good arguments in this thread
just because he played badly doesn't mean the rest of what was discussed here doesn't have merit
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England504 Posts
On December 01 2010 22:20 mOnion wrote:
I think you're ignorantly disregarding a lot of the good arguments in this thread
just because he played badly doesn't mean the rest of what was discussed here doesn't have merit
+ Show Spoiler +You're absolutely right that just because he played worse than polt doesn't mean it wasn't rigged but at the same time, most of what was discussed in this thread doesn't have any merit. And it certainly wasn't rigged.
You can find conspiracies in anything, whether they are true or not. You'll refuse to believe the answer given to you, because that's the nature of a conspiracy.
EDIT - Spoiler.
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United States5657 Posts
On December 01 2010 22:26 Shirolol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 22:20 mOnion wrote:
I think you're ignorantly disregarding a lot of the good arguments in this thread
just because he played badly doesn't mean the rest of what was discussed here doesn't have merit + Show Spoiler +You're absolutely right that just because he played worse than polt doesn't mean it wasn't rigged but at the same time, most of what was discussed in this thread doesn't have any merit. And it certainly wasn't rigged. You can find conspiracies in anything, whether they are true or not. You'll refuse to believe the answer given to you, because that's the nature of a conspiracy. EDIT - Spoiler.
what are you going on about? no one thinks the polt v boxer game was rigged its the entirety of his matchups and where he was seeded thats suspicious
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England504 Posts
I think you need to re-read what was said, you just typed out exactly what I said - in a different way.
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On December 01 2010 08:09 cablesc wrote:
The idea that Gomtv is rigging brackets to help boxer is such an insult to the players in the tournament. In GSL 2 Loner won 2-1 vs a zerg and a protoss in order to face boxer, and nada had to beat leenock (also 2-1), who's turning out to be one of the best zergs in sc2. People are devaluing their victories by saying that it's a "rigged bracket", and that's just shameful.
And look at the upcoming match-up Jinro vs Moon. If Jinro wins, then it's rigged for TvT. If Moon wins, then it's rigged for a star matchup. Gom can't win. No matter what happens, there will be people complaining and looking for conspiracies.
+ Show Spoiler +If Boxer loses.......
Oh well, Gom can't win.
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EPT
