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On November 21 2010 22:17 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 22:14 Kyuki wrote:On November 21 2010 22:12 Woony wrote:On November 21 2010 22:10 Kyuki wrote:On November 21 2010 21:58 IdrA wrote:On November 21 2010 21:56 Kyuki wrote:On November 21 2010 21:00 lol12tree wrote:On November 21 2010 20:58 Supamang wrote:On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote:On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats.
It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. I said the exact same things in Dimagas and Fruitdealers posts. It's imo disgusting and childish behaviour to cry out like this to the public. blizzard watches public opinion and the public is retarded, if you feel somethings unfair its only logical to try and swing public opinion your way. I agree it's logical, it does not make it more honerable to be crying, or whatever you wanna call it. Even though blizzard listens, they have shown several times with different patches that they do quite the oposite of what the crowd thinks is needed, and somehow that have made players change up their play and adapt to something that they did not think would work. So regardless of what people say about them I think they have more clue than most. Blizzard seriously deserve some cred even though they can't make fucking chatchannels... I mean is there no pride? Whine and cry by all means, but really, do it privately and then look back at your game and try harder? Everything is not figured out... I'm pretty certain that you would think different if you were trying to make a career off Starcraft. No? You have no clue who I am and what I do for a living. I put in the same type of mentality in whatever I do and that makes me improve upon what I'm doing. Why do people use this as a argument? "Buff me pls, so I can make moneEz!" Really? Grow up. Maybe not you, but most human beings would get an advantage if they can. It's not like he is killing people for it.
Well it's contradictive and lazy. If you beat the odds you will improve more than those that cry and eventually show more consistency. Humans are lazy though so I'm saying I dont understand this, but it's still stupid and ugly. Imo.
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On November 21 2010 22:16 Raiznhell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 21:31 Gudeldar wrote:
I think all the non-Protoss players will have to acknowledge there is a problem now when one of the very few top Protoss players is considering switching. And if the post about Inca and Tester considering switching is true then even Blizzard won't be able to ignore it and focus on something other than ladder wins. But that's just it i mean they are using race changing threats to scare blizzard into buffing protoss wether or not they need a buff or not. If blizzard can be scared into making balance changes based on top players threats of changing races then this game will never get perfectly balanced. If they want to help Protoss balance they should keep playing their race to the best of their ability and consistent loss to something imbalanced will lead to nerfs/buffs but being a whiny bitch and changing races isn't going to help at all.
Well it's a hard situation for Blizzard. If they really switch, Protoss is without top players and this will probably scare other people from Broodwar from picking Protoss in Starcraft 2.
And having practically only 2 races at the top again would be very bad for the game and the game as an e-sport.
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So just like how Fruitdealer made a post like this then won GSL1, is Genius going to win GSL3 because he's angry at his race now too? :p
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I find it funny how this guy wanted to be the toss hero at the last gsl, the sort of thing that fruitdealer did, and now he's changing his race and crying about imbalance.
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So what is it that separates ladder results from tournament results? I hate to make this comparison, but P is leading the pack in most of their T and Z matchups across the globe according to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169358.
P does seem to be struggling in korea in PvZ, though I'm not entirely convinced yet that it's a balance issue. Most of the Z's are being aggressive over there with roach/ling and mutas which are fairly new strategies and could use a little more time to be ironed out.
Against T though, P seems to be doing quite well, and T seems to be the main focus of Protoss complaints. So back to my original question. What is it that pros are doing compared to diamond ladder players, to turn a Protoss favored matchup into an imbalance fest?
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Change the bloddy mappool and get rid of maps like scrap station, steppes of war etc.
Create new, better, more macro oriented maps (bigger ones), and then we take another view
at the whole situation.
As far as im concerned, TvP early pressure on Shakuras for instance ins't that huge of a deal.
You can safely fast expand and after lock your natural with force fields while safely teching up.
I want to see Race % per map
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On November 21 2010 22:26 Tachion wrote:So what is it that separates ladder results from tournament results? I hate to make this comparison, but P is leading the pack in most of their T and Z matchups across the globe according to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169358. P does seem to be struggling in korea in PvZ, though I'm not entirely convinced yet that it's a balance issue. Most of the Z's are being aggressive over there with roach/ling and mutas which are fairly new strategies and could use a little more time to be ironed out. Against T though, P seems to be doing quite well, and T seems to be the main focus of Protoss complaints. So back to my original question. What is it that pros are doing compared to diamond ladder players to turn a Protoss favored matchup, into an imbalance fest?
In another thread calling into question how the stats swung so massively in just a few days from their previous posting that was removed a blue stated that the stats quite regulary vary as much as 10% like that from day to day. So Blizzard can pretty much choose a convenient day and then post the stats to prove a point.
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On November 21 2010 22:26 Tachion wrote:So what is it that separates ladder results from tournament results? I hate to make this comparison, but P is leading the pack in most of their T and Z matchups across the globe according to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169358. P does seem to be struggling in korea in PvZ, though I'm not entirely convinced yet that it's a balance issue. Most of the Z's are being aggressive over there with roach/ling and mutas which are fairly new strategies and could use a little more time to be ironed out. Against T though, P seems to be doing quite well, and T seems to be the main focus of Protoss complaints. So back to my original question. What is it that pros are doing compared to diamond ladder players to turn a Protoss favored matchup, into an imbalance fest?
The only thing Blizzard should read from ladder data is that their ladder matchmaker is good at putting people of equal skill together.
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Didn't he say like less than a month earlier than he thinks protoss is the strong race ... ? t_t
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Did Genius suggest the specifics of the weaknesses? Grack atleast did that.
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wtf? Genius 
You are one of the last hopes of Aiur.
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On November 21 2010 22:32 Ramble wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 22:26 Tachion wrote:So what is it that separates ladder results from tournament results? I hate to make this comparison, but P is leading the pack in most of their T and Z matchups across the globe according to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169358. P does seem to be struggling in korea in PvZ, though I'm not entirely convinced yet that it's a balance issue. Most of the Z's are being aggressive over there with roach/ling and mutas which are fairly new strategies and could use a little more time to be ironed out. Against T though, P seems to be doing quite well, and T seems to be the main focus of Protoss complaints. So back to my original question. What is it that pros are doing compared to diamond ladder players to turn a Protoss favored matchup, into an imbalance fest? The only thing Blizzard should read from ladder data is that their ladder matchmaker is good at putting people of equal skill together.
They supposedly remove the matchmaking results and only compare of equal level, how they do that well only they know how accurate it is and if they actually bother to note map and position percentages too.
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On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats.
It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit.
The worst thing of it all may just be that people actually logon to TL and use the opinion of these players to support their balance whines, even though it's pretty damn obvious none of these players actually have a clue about balance and just want their own race to be better.
In a way I'm glad it's a Protoss doing it now because now if I yell at him I won't be attacked by angry Zerg and Terran players saying that it isn't my race that is underpowered.
I hope people that don't read the whole thread will read this. Took the words right out of my mouth.
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Okay let's think about it with a small amount of logic from start to finish.
If you play a game professionally and are good at it but consistently get under-par results then I'd imagine it does get frustrating. This may cause you to put the occasional rant on a forum or something (Fruitdealer, Boxer). These are some of the highest level players so until you are at their level I don't see how people can compare their own, or any other "whiners" situations to theirs.
Secondly he is posting a fairly calm, question based post within his own community. Nazgul and othe mods, tbh if it pisses you off then why do you have this stuff on the forums. Did he come to TL and post it? No. So what's happening is we're taking something that wasn't even posted to TL, and bitching about how he's shoving his complaining down our throats?
</logic>
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I'll bet my sc2-key that he won't switch.
General rule of thumb: if somebody wants to switch, they just fckin do it (Morrow, TLO) and don't create a public hassle all around it. If somebody "announces" he is going to switch, he won't. I'm Protoss for the record.
Although I'd agree on some balance issues (many terran timing attacks STILL work even 4 months after release, which makes you wonder...), it's so painfully obvious that all these "announcements" are nothing but giant QQs directed at blizzard, like "hey, dudes, my race is UP, fix it already will ya?"
So annoying, I don't understand how a fan could give any player who does that any credit for it.
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this is just the way pros blow off steam. everyone has a bad day and rages for a bit... im sure most of us do. its just bad that he decides to make it public and recruits the public which is just a horde of fanboys. even if he does proceed and switches his race.. its his choice and people should just accept it and move on. what i do agree with is that there definitely needs to be more maps in the pool..
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wait, how did the "general consensus" in Korea go from PvZ being P favored (zomg even worse than TvZ some say!) to it being Z favored? maybe ive been an idiot all along for believing people when they say "well koreans say *blah* so it must be true"
On November 21 2010 22:10 ace246 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 21:46 Metalwing wrote:
IdrA always had talks about balance. But instead of saying "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", he said "I don't play Terran because I have self respect". I'd expect the same from the Protoss players. But they just don't care. They just QQ like the little kids do. Terran suits Genius better. He should play Terran definitely. Are you implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch"? If so, thats kinda stupid isn't it? I mean saying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is pretty much BM to all the other terrans. Whereas "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch" isn't really offensive to anyone.
If Metalwing was implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", then I completely agree with him. At least Idra has self-respect, and not because he doesn't play terran. its because he believes in himself and his own abilities to the end and keeps his head up high despite going against the odds. I am no Idra lover either. Ive always disliked his BM and how much of an asshole he can be when losing, but I respect him as a strong player and a strong personality.
People look up to the progamers because of their ability and drive. People who make it to the top in anything should have confidence in their own abilities. How pathetic is it that tons of people respect Genius as a pro Protoss player when he himself doesnt have self-respect as a Protoss player?
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you're all missing the most important thing: we can pick his race
~the people's progamer~
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Thats the last straw! As an average diamond level protoss that plays about half an hour a day I'm officially announcing that i might or might not switch races. I know this may come as a shock to some of you guys and all my loyal fans, but its just something i might or might not have to do.........
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Problem with toss is the lack of flexibility you're so vulnerable to tech switches. And that we can't really threaten them. Our air is absolutely useless now. Storm take for ever to get. DTs take forever and are really risky. Only thing we can do really is to choose between 4 gate or a robo build. So easy to predict what we're going to do and we must play perfectly to win against equal opponents.
I will admit however that our late game is the strongest. Although zerg is arguably stronger with their macro on 5 hatches. It's the path up to late game that is a bitch for toss. But if we can get to 200/200 our armies are the strongest in game imo.
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EPT
