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On September 17 2010 04:22 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +No. Tried and true all the way. Gaming nerds are the target demographic, not hicks sitting on their couch in the front lawn with their 45'' standard def TV hanging out the window with a kiddie pool full of water, ice and Bud Light. Because clearly only rednecks like Football, Basketball or Baseball. Or, you know, not, given that something like 100 million Americans, or about 40% of the population, watch the Superbowl.
The superbowl is more akin to an event than a sport happening. It is a national thing, kind of like the eurovision song contest or the soccer world cup is here. It is something everybody watches, not something everybody is interested in.
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I just think its so immature, to get mad after losing and call your opponent a fag. How is that anything but immature and stupid?
Droping mules, emping probes or whatever, no problem cos thats more for fun than bad mannered. But when someone just tilts and says something stupid I lose so much respect for them.
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It was a lot to read but, yea I was super surprised too. Coming from playing FPS and Halo specifically, where half the fun is bad mouthing, it was weird to transition to this. I think the big difference is people who were raised playing Halo type games and people who grew up playing RTS. In Halo it literally just always happens so you get used to it. I think a lot of the hardcore starcraft gamers are/were in for a awakening (not saying good or bad) when all those non Starcraft gamers came into the scene.
As a wise philosopher once said "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."
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This is not Halo, this is a game for intelligent people and intelligent people do not BM because they know what it causes.
The best have the best manners. S**t talkers can only go so far.
EDIT: also people who BM are insecure, they have a need to flex their stuff in order to make them selves feel better. Most nerds are secure with themselves and we dont want this kind of stuff lowering the quality of the gameplay and community. The community and gameplay come first and your self esteem issues do nothing but lower the quality of this game and this community.
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Its all a joke and you people the jokers
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On September 17 2010 03:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:
At least in America, we *expect* our athletes to talk trash. We like it, and we idolize them for it.
Come on, don't make us all look bad. Not all amazing athletes in the United States talk trash.
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On September 17 2010 03:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:
At least in America, we *expect* our athletes to talk trash. We like it, and we idolize them for it.
In America, Wrestling is also considered a professional sport.
I think too much Showmanship distracts from the game itself.
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EDIT: I also personally beleive in being polite in general, there is no reason to act like a douche, if you win, you just won, your play just spoke for itself, if you lose, you were worse than the other player in that particular game, so deal with it. do unto others and all that jazz 
i agree. i dont see how having poor manners causes excitement for anyone. for me, it causes me to facepalm and feel embarassed for the guy talking out of his ass. theres no reason to be a bigot about a game.
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On September 17 2010 04:28 ETBPaul wrote:
It was a lot to read but, yea I was super surprised too. Coming from playing FPS and Halo specifically, where half the fun is bad mouthing, it was weird to transition to this. I think the big difference is people who were raised playing Halo type games and people who grew up playing RTS. In Halo it literally just always happens so you get used to it. I think a lot of the hardcore starcraft gamers are/were in for a awakening (not saying good or bad) when all those non Starcraft gamers came into the scene.
As a wise philosopher once said "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."
SC players don't *only* play Starcraft, you know? I've spent years playing CS1.6 and Source, one of the very worst PC communities right there. It was annoying in those games as well.
I really just don't understand why bad mouthing is supposed to be fun. Not for the player doing it, not for the player on the receiving end and certainly not for any spectators.
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On September 17 2010 04:28 ETBPaul wrote:
It was a lot to read but, yea I was super surprised too. Coming from playing FPS and Halo specifically, where half the fun is bad mouthing, it was weird to transition to this. I think the big difference is people who were raised playing Halo type games and people who grew up playing RTS. In Halo it literally just always happens so you get used to it. I think a lot of the hardcore starcraft gamers are/were in for a awakening (not saying good or bad) when all those non Starcraft gamers came into the scene.
As a wise philosopher once said "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."
you "got used to it" because Halo and the console it's played on is cheap compared to a computer required to run SC2... aka... more people can play it... and when have people serious enough to throw down a couple grand on a system THEN take the time to learn the game... no shit you'll have GM people... where as Halo is a game where it's pick up and play right outta the box (no install needed besides plugging up 360)
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I think a large piece is missing from this discussion: respect.
I think the OP is absolutely correct, trash talking can make a game much more fun and involving. Cultue is certainly part of it. Also (as discussed) timing can change the feel of the entire match for when a few words are said. Trash talk before the match is awesome - at the end, terrible. I lol'd at imagining Lebron calling Howard a faggot then running out screaming like a girl (that's at least how i pictured it), but if that actually happened IRL everyone would loose respect for him and not like him as much.
At the end of the day, after the match is over, all the players still respect the other team and everyone on it. Everyone knows they all tried their best and didn't cheat and the better team came out on top. At post-game interviews, no ever says "That guy sucks and doesn't know how to play the game!" What you mostly hear is "Our/Their team won because we/they played better." and iterations of that. A player may occasionaly say "We/They didn't play our/their best." or "...put on the best performace", but that's as close to true BM as it gets, and I've never heard someone say that without it being warranted and true. Fans can really get behind the trash talk and even trash talk fans of the other team because they know the teams respect each other and to some extent the fans respect each other.
There is no great rivalry without great respect.
In Starcraft ladder matches, it's ridiculous to expect every player on every occasion to be respectfull of a skillful player. Most players aren't known and there are no consequenses for BM other than some petty satisfaction. Even progamers develop and practice in this arena where BM is expected. I think thats where some of the more 'out there' rules originated; like no talking other than "ppp" to request a pause or to signifiy defeat (so a typed "pp" would result in an immediate loss). I think this affects how progamers play in tournaments and what they want from tournaments. I think this may influence them to be as good mannered as possible. So a normally nice person on ladder will be all smiles ( :DDDDD ) in a more professional setting.
Also this thread is waaaay more good mannered than I thought it would be. I read the OP and thought it would result in people thinking being BM would be ironic and funny. Props to well put words OP!
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I don't know if this has been said or not because I haven't read the thread, but if you encourage bm and trash talking you progress to a stage where EVERYONE talks trash after EVERY loss and blames the matchup / their race / unit imbalance / whatever else for losing. See: Heroes Of Newerth
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I'm just have to "LOL" when I see people acting shocked at BM. A bunch of kids competing anonymously on the internet, I pretty much expect BM.
Yea, of course it would be nice to eliminate BM, but I'm not naive enough to think it ever will happen, so I just ignore the BM. If you actually get angry, you are doing what the BMer wants, so that's a pretty bad solution too. I just laugh at the children (and if it's not a child, even more reason to laugh.
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On September 17 2010 03:51 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +I don't know why you want to claim people are "obsessed with BM". I'm a fencer and in fencing there is a very strong level of courteousness and most fencers have good manners. To not act "manner" in fencing is regarded very bad in the community similarly to how some people act about StarCraft.
Nobody cares about fencing--and I fenced in college, so i actually like it. But ask 100 random people on the street to name a single fencer, and the closest anyone is gonna get is "Inigo Montoya". What sports are popular in America? Football - tons of trash talk Basketball - tons of trash talk Hockey - tons of trash talk Baseball - not quite as much as the others, but still a lot of trash talking Golf - before his downfall, Tiger Woods was the most popular golfer in America hands down, and he was famous for his "BM" and freaking out/cursing on the pitch Tennis - There's a reason Andre Agassi was more popular than Pete Sampras, even though Sampras was better. Agassi acted emotional, he said things he "shouldn't", he could get cocky, etc. Sampras always said the "right" thing and people called him a robot. MMA - tons of trash talk Boxing - tons of trash talk Nascar - tons of trash talk Face it, the American mainstream likes great athletes to be a little bit cocky, to show their emotions and, yes, to talk some trash from time to time. Remember when Usain Bolt slowed down during a sprint to show off how much faster he was than the other runners? People ate that up. Greatness will always make you famous, but greatness, with a dash of cockiness, will make you a legend.
Okay so to sum it up:
Nobody cares about fencing
then...
I fenced in college, so i actually like it
...What?
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And the more trash talk exists, the more reason why people shouldn't respectful? That's your argument?
I'm done with this thread. Go trash talk people, self-proclaimed "asshole".
Edit: + Show Spoiler +I don't actually know if this post is true, but this is why I said "self-proclaimed". Regardless of whether or not you actually said it, I feel you mean it. tofucake is still a jerk if he made this post up though On September 17 2010 03:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I'm an asshole who loves this game but still want to rage on people with no consequences so I made this big post about it to try to garner support for me.
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On September 17 2010 04:20 SageFantasma wrote:The difference between, say, football and Starcraft is the fact that football is so much more widely accepted. If you talk trash in football, you just seem cool because you are playing something that people think is cool. If you talk trash in Starcraft, you just seem like a spoiled nerd. Being professional is so much more important in Starcraft because it is frowned upon to play videogames as your job. By being well-mannered, you're giving off the impression that you are someone to be respected, and eventually, Starcraft will catch on. You can't tell me that if Starcraft continues to emphasize on being well-mannered, it won't catch on in America. That's fucking bullshit. Sure, you may not attract the audience that loves that stupid drama, but that isn't the whole population. Personally, I would be so unhappy if those douchebags who revel in that drama started plaguing the Starcraft scene. 
incoming jersey shore kids
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Aside from the already stated "Comes from Korea" comments, I like to relate SC2 to Golf. It's like the "gentleman's game" of e-sports. It's mannered, polite, self-enforcing, like Golf. Whereas a game like Halo is more like the NBA. Less mature, a lot more trash talking and such. Just my view. =]
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Sigh...the attitude of many of the Americans in this thread makes me sad. I think you're just making us look worse to rest of the world. But rather than argue, I'll just say that I am an American who does NOT watch WWF and is NOT in favor of trash talking/BM and who DOES think celebrities have a responsibility to be role models for youth. And I loved that game where Idra BMed Masq and Masq responded with "Well sir, I am honored to be the recipient of Idra rage." I thought that was so classy, and even funnier when he went on to demolish him again in the second game.
I guess when it comes down to it, you're right, "awesomoecylapse" - there's no point in trying to have good manners if you don't think that it's important. Respect for others and humility must be overrated.
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I'm with Tasteless on this. When I saw oGs.Top BMing his opponent in the Ro32 I was cracking up, and hearing about how he was getting revenge made just another TvT so much more exciting and fun. It's best in small doses though. The SC community tries to hard to be polite that when BM happens it makes it so much more special.
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I'm not a fan of trash talking, but I definitely loved watching Firebathero's ceremonies.
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I actually agree that most SC players seem way too sensitive, but I don't agree with the OP that all American's love shit-talk. We don't (all).
Since this inevitably gets linked to professional sports, I like athletes that are good, know it, and let their performance speak. I don't even mind somebody who is frank about their opinion. A pre-game show with an interview saying "I like my chances in this matchup" or "I think I play very strong against this player/team" is absolutely cool, and in fact, refreshing. I don't even mind a little bravado mixed in there. It's an entirely different thing when it gets personal, or you start making excuses after the game is played. Now you're just making excuses. Suck it up and move on.
Of course, I realize that not everybody is like me. And that's fine. You can like your trash-talking athletes...your prerogative. Just don't paint us all with your brush.
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EPT
