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I don't get the obsession with "BM". It seems like every time a progamer does anything but keep their head down, say the "right" things at all times, and never ever talks trash or says anything cocky in any way, its "BM" and people get pissed off.
Maybe its just because I'm an American, but this makes no sense to me.
At least in America, we *expect* our athletes to talk trash. We like it, and we idolize them for it. When two football players get in each other's faces and start talking trash, you don't hear the commentators saying "oh, bad manners, this is disgraceful." Its more like, "some heated trash talk going on, but thats how you know they're competitors." In the recent Monday Night Football game between the Ravens and Jets, those guys were at each others' throats, and had been insulting each other and talking trash forever in the run up to the game. Did it "tarnish" the game? No, it made it more exciting and intense. And afterwards, when the Jets lost, all the Ravens fans and players got to rub their nose it, and the same would have happened if the reverse had come to pass.
Michael Jordan was famous for his trash talk. So was Larry Bird. Larry Bird, before the first ever 3 point contest, walked into the locker room, looked at everyone and said, "So which one of you ********s is coming in second?" Then he walked out and not only won, but when he took the contest-winning shot, before it even had gone through the net he'd turned around, stuck a finger in the air for "Number 1", and started swaggering away like a badass. Did people complaing about "BM". No. They said, "Larry Bird is the fucking man."
Well, you might say, thats regular sports, not e-sports. So lets compare it to something a bit closer: chess.
The biggest chess celebrity in the history of America was Bobby Fisher. Now, Bobby was a prodigy and super-genius, which definitely helped. But he was also incredibly cocky, and has no problem with insulting his opponents and telling everyone he was better than them. Did people hold that against him? No. He was super popular, at least until he went bugfuck crazy later in life.
The fact is, America is not Korea. In Korea, they may be horrified by someone acting cocky or insulting other people, but they sure don't over here. So, if people want progaming to take off in America, they can't just look at how Koreans do things and copy it exactly, they have to take into consideration what sort of behavior is popular over here.
TBH, The only "BM" that I find disgraceful is when someone loses, and then says that the guy they just lost too sucks. But thats not because of bad manners, it just because it seems like making excuses (looking at you, IdrA and Artosis). If you're gonna talk trash, do it before the game, and back it up.
But if someone, say, before a match in an interview was like, "I'm not really worried, because honestly, I'm waay better than this fool and I'm about to prove it." I would LOVE that. Or if someone at the start of the match, instead of saying glhf said something like "gl...cause you're gonna need it." I'd love that. if they backed it up it'd be badass, and if the opponent beat them, then they could rub their faces in it. The fact is, "BM" makes games more exciting, because they make it personal, and put pride on the line.
American progaming fans need to stop obsessing over how they do things in Korea, and look to American sports for inspiration. Americans don't care about "bad manners". They want drama and a sense that the competitors really want to destroy each other. Players with big personalities who celebrate and talk trash can only do good things for the future of the sport in America. In Korea, Firebathero was controversial, but over here he'd be like Chad Ochocinco, a guy who brings a sense of fun and celebration to the game and who gets himself a ton of fans.
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I agree with you ... but you're about to get flamed by 90% of the community 
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I used to not like bm but I've grown to like it although actually unlike yourself I actually like the Idra and Artosis BM because it speaks the truth so I'm fine with it. But there is also a different between friendly or joke bm and serious business bm.
I think most of your examples would be like friendly bm except maybe the Bobby Fisher one which actually makes him sound like an asshole so I probably wouldn't like him too much
Its true there is trash talking in American sports but actually I find that the athletes that don't trash talk are usually more popular than those that do (if they are good). For example like Fedor in MMA is one of the most popular fighters and people always say how he says the nicest and coolest things.
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I'm American and I don't idolize athletes for trash talking. I prefer people like Tim Duncan who are great and let their game do the talking. I'm fine with friendly trash talking that takes place, and I'd be OK with it in Starcraft, but to me bad manners are just that and I will never appreciate it.
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Stegosaur
Netherlands1231 Posts
The difference is that a big American Football player talking trash is a badass, while an SC2 player is sitting behind a computer screen while doing it, playing a videogame, making it awkward instead of badass.
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Coming from an FPS my mind blown at how thin skinned SC2 players are. Tastosis talked about it on the last GSL when the guy was dropping mules on the guys tanks, lol.
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If what somebody says is true, I don't really see the problem with it, even if it is BM.
Frankly, I agree that Starcraft players are WAY too uptight about the whole "manners" thing. Certain types of BM are just obnoxious, but I see no reason why gamers should be asked to maintain some stupid socially-constructed idea of propriety at the cost of speaking their minds.
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I think you already found an answer to your question: it's simply a difference in culture. American people tend to be very confident in themselves, maybe a bit too much. 'Trash talking' is not my idea of a fun game though. It shows a lack of patience and professionalism. Honestly I think anyone who goes around insulting their opponents is just making a fool of themselves.
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you can't understand because bm is a cultural aspect in america
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Might be because SC culture is heavily influenced by the Korean culture, where trash talk is not welcome.
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On September 17 2010 03:19 jdwashere wrote:
Coming from an FPS my mind blown at how thin skinned SC2 players are. Tastosis talked about it on the last GSL when the guy was dropping mules on the guys tanks, lol.
True....SC community is by far the best mannered one I've ever seen. After playing CS for a couple of years I just LoL at what the SC community considers BM. The things I've seen in that community would make baby jesus cry.
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On September 17 2010 03:18 Stegosaur wrote:
The difference is that a big American Football player talking trash is a badass, while an SC2 player is sitting behind a computer screen while doing it, playing a videogame, making it awkward instead of badass.
This is completely wrong. I hate it when people try to pull this "you're not as big as him, so you have no right to talk" bullshit. A pro football player talking trash is NO different than a pro-gamer talking trash. Both are the best at what they do, what gives one of them more right than the other? NOTHING.
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It's true, but the CS community is in no way anything anyone should ever hope to emulate.
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On September 17 2010 03:18 Stegosaur wrote:
The difference is that a big American Football player talking trash is a badass, while an SC2 player is sitting behind a computer screen while doing it, playing a videogame, making it awkward instead of badass.
this is a good point
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They want SC2 to be a real sport.
Kinda odd, since in real sports, there is almost always a "the bad guy", that does stuff like headbutt people, punches people, rages hard at stuff
But people LIKE that stuff, it spices up games.
But starcraft fans want everyone to emulate polite koreans and force out a "gg" from every match.
I'm sure Jook was having a "good game" getting reaper'ed in GSL Ro32 day 1.
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I've never been a fan of any kind of gloating, verbally, physically, what have you, which is why I dislike people like Chad Johnson. It's just the way I was brought up.
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I agree with your sentiment but I believe the resentment towards BM is simply due to the fact that starcraft revolves around Korea, and Koreans happen to have the attitude you described. Just as I believe that if a Korean were to watch American football, he would ignore his more respectful upbringing and go ape shit over trash talking from his favorite team.
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Im from the UK and i 100% agree with awesomoecalypse. It would be so much more exciting to see players "bullying" their opponents in the Game when winning or even at the start
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I cant disagree with this more, now i'm canadian not american so it's a little different, but I cant stand players like ochocinco, i mean seriously have a little class. its called being a bad winner/loser. Just look at wayne gretzky for a prime example, you'd never see him BM anyone, yet he is still the greatest hockey player of all time AND was extremely popular. The fact that americans love BM players has nothing to do with the BM, They love talent, and it just so happens the biggest talent is usually attatched to the biggest ego. Personally i quit xbox games because the BM is so horrific it actually ruins the experience for me, who wants to play MW2 with a 12 year old screaming profanities in your ear and teabagging you when he kills you, i know i dont.
TL;DR, BM ruins gaming
EDIT: I also personally beleive in being polite in general, there is no reason to act like a douche, if you win, you just won, your play just spoke for itself, if you lose, you were worse than the other player in that particular game, so deal with it. do unto others and all that jazz 
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EPT
