EPTWhy are Starcraft fans so obsessed with BM - Page 18
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JudoChopper
England148 Posts
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JBright
Vancouver14381 Posts
On September 17 2010 07:26 zomgtossrush wrote: The difference is that when people bm, its at the end of the game. With your sports anaolgy, even teams that hate each other, like a yankees red sox playoff series, they still usually respectfully congrats and shake hands at the end, and equivalent to calling gg. You don't see any sports players at the postgame interview say "that other team sucks, we should have won." They say, "we got outplayed, and have to improve." I definitely agree with this. There are times when you can trash talk and times when you shouldn't. Many athletes get angry after a loss, but most don't lash out at their opponents. | ||
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Raevin
246 Posts
You're trying to say that because someone said Fuck You in a game: * The WoW pro scene collapsed * People have decided PvP isn't interesting * worldofming.com closed simply because of this Awesome logic there. You do realize that the amount of people who'd like to watch any kind of competitive video game is incredibly small given the size of this country, and those that do typically like FPS and not WoW? Or that the game has aged very much since two years ago, and therefore is likely less appealing... people grow up, move on, new blood does not come in as much. There are so many other halfway logical explanations for those declines, and none start with someone saying FUCK YOU on a MLG tournament. Jesus. It is amazing just how little you understand. The "Fuck you" is just a example of what the community has been like since it began. Which is why it never took off even 2 years ago when it was semi decent in Burning Crusade. It couldnt take off becuase of the douchebags playing the game, nobody wanted to watch that. The people who gave it a shot, left one by one, as they did worldofming.com Yes i know what your reply is "you just dont understand us americans brah, we need drama and BM, i wanna see a guy decapitaded on stage next MLG that would bring esport to the masses not all this "well mannered" s*** brah" | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
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Lysteria
France2279 Posts
But when I see things like : "lol hacker you noob" and worse, it's just frustration in my eyes, not BMing. For example, I'm a big fan of IdrA, he likes to trash talk some dudes sometimes, however, people on Bnet tends to hide with their anonymity to insult, and that's not the same thing. | ||
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Maand
326 Posts
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
On September 17 2010 07:37 Raevin wrote: Im not gonna give up on you, im gonna try to explain it AGAIN: If Flash was a trash talking BMer, most people in korea would not find that interesting nor want to watch his matches, regardless of how good he is. Do you understand that? Koreans do not tolerate bad behaviour in any aspects of their lives, this is not some exclusive online gaming thing, they dont tolerate that in their media, television, press anything. They find it disrespectful and lacking in honor and grace. By some yea, and yet they really werent BM, they were BM compared to the 100% positive and happy mode of others, if a player sneezed he was "BM" compared to others. BM are clear insults of others, im 100% convinced a player doing this in korea would be booted out of any league or tournament. Sadly you own americans dont all agree, if this was the case then Halo would be bigger in USA than BW is in Korea as the constant trash talk even amongst "pros" would propell the game to be bigger than NFL. I dont think most americans want to listen to the N word, the F word and the S word being said multiple times during a game. Maybe i give americans too much credit but i honestly dont believe that Halo is the biggest E-sport in America as far as I know. You argue against yourself. Obviously BM doesn't mean saying "FUCK U GO DIE POOPLICKER. MASS THOR? MORE LIKE MASSWHORE LOLOLOL" when you lose. I'd consider good BM something like, on game 2 after beating off a proxy in game 1, they proxy again, and in chat taking a moment to type "Really? You're going to try a fail proxy again? For shame." when you're confident you can smash it, of course. Also, stuff like Pylon Hearts, GG forcefields, etc kick ass. | ||
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Stark838
Philippines15 Posts
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VAR1ABLES
United States29 Posts
Boxer bunker rushing. Or saying "this is lot of tanks yes?" is what MADE him AMAZING. He was a really good player before, but those things made him go beyond starcraft and into gaming as a whole. zet,neo, and shaguar yelling things at their opposing teams in CS made them legends inside and outside the game. Half of the appeal of f0rest from fnatic is him changing his name to iZnoGooD in the finals or at any time, effectively berating his own team - and by extension yours when you're getting rolled by him. Cooller talking trash in quake and outside of game is what made him a legend along with his prodigious play. Basically - IF YOU ARE A BALLER AND YOU KNOW SHOW IT. TALK SOME TRASH IT MAKES ME LOL HARD. Although don't go to far - hostile's a dick because he opens his mouth too much. | ||
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Raevin
246 Posts
Yea not much competition is there? And how many people tune in to watch these "superstars" play? Is it often shown on national television where millions tune in? Im not even being sarcastic, i honestly dont know, is there alot of interest for this where you can actually claim it has broken through and its something alot of americans care about? | ||
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pookychoo
New Zealand96 Posts
i wish there was more of this | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On September 17 2010 03:12 awesomoecalypse wrote: TBH, The only "BM" that I find disgraceful is when someone loses, and then says that the guy they just lost too sucks. But thats not because of bad manners, it just because it seems like making excuses (looking at you, IdrA and Artosis). If you're gonna talk trash, do it before the game, and back it up. Interesting post overall - quite well-written as well. I will disagree with the part I quoted though. While I think it is stupid to say a person sucks in general whether it's BEFORE OR AFTER a game, I think it's perfectly fine to say something like: "You played horrible that game but still won cause I made one or two smaller mistakes that just happened to have a bigger impact on the game (luck)." or in perhaps more common sentences "lucky %&#$er" or "lucky nooby" Anyone who doesn't believe that a worse player can eventually beat a better player has to be out of their mind. The reason they win isn't because they are better, or even that they played better(most likely at least), but that they essentially got lucky. Especially when you combine bad players with imbalanced races (or maps), you can get a substantial skill differential where one player flat out plays worse than another but still wins due to inherent advantages. This can also happen in Free For Alls. And that is why not being able to insult someone just because you lost is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. On September 17 2010 07:41 MythicalMage wrote: WHAT?! Are you trying to say that not GGing after a game is worse than trash talk? That is a sick joke. GG means good game... it's not some magic word that vindicates you from being BM or disliked, or that means anything other than what the words mean "Good Game". Don't say it if you don't mean it, and if you mean something else, say something else.The reason we don't like BM is that it shows a lack of respect for the other player. Trash talk is fine, but not saying gg is something much more than that. | ||
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Raevin
246 Posts
Basically - IF YOU ARE A BALLER AND YOU KNOW SHOW IT. TALK SOME TRASH IT MAKES ME LOL HARD. Although don't go to far - hostile's a dick because he opens his mouth too much. You are not a african american living in Brooklyn, using "baller" makes you look like Vanilla Ice is playing SC2 again. Sure you can use any word you want, but it really reflects badly on you. Just like those white guys in 1991 saying "its wack yo" Im sorry for "BMing" you, (how ironic) and apologise | ||
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Misanthrope
United States924 Posts
On September 17 2010 04:22 awesomoecalypse wrote: Because clearly only rednecks like Football, Basketball or Baseball. Or, you know, not, given that something like 100 million Americans, or about 40% of the population, watch the Superbowl. I was speaking in relation to professional wrestling, calm down. | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On September 17 2010 07:49 Misanthrope wrote: I was speaking in relation to professional wrestling, calm down. Great, now you're generalizing and offending those that watch and enjoy Professional Wrestling. Guys like me. | ||
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space_yes
United States548 Posts
On September 17 2010 07:45 VAR1ABLES wrote: You know what's made players great? When they win and talk crazy trash afterward. Boxer bunker rushing. Or saying "this is lot of tanks yes?" is what MADE him AMAZING. He was a really good player before, but those things made him go beyond starcraft and into gaming as a whole. zet,neo, and shaguar yelling things at their opposing teams in CS made them legends inside and outside the game. Half of the appeal of f0rest from fnatic is him changing his name to iZnoGooD in the finals or at any time, effectively berating his own team - and by extension yours when you're getting rolled by him. Cooller talking trash in quake and outside of game is what made him a legend along with his prodigious play. Basically - IF YOU ARE A BALLER AND YOU KNOW SHOW IT. TALK SOME TRASH IT MAKES ME LOL HARD. Although don't go to far - hostile's a dick because he opens his mouth too much. Even if you're a pale malnourished skinny little nerd you can be baller if you're bm. It makes you cool like Boxer. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32051 Posts
On September 17 2010 07:37 Raevin wrote: Im not gonna give up on you, im gonna try to explain it AGAIN: If Flash was a trash talking BMer, most people in korea would not find that interesting nor want to watch his matches, regardless of how good he is. Do you understand that? Koreans do not tolerate bad behaviour in any aspects of their lives, this is not some exclusive online gaming thing, they dont tolerate that in their media, television, press anything. They find it disrespectful and lacking in honor and grace. By some yea, and yet they really werent BM, they were BM compared to the 100% positive and happy mode of others, if a player sneezed he was "BM" compared to others. BM are clear insults of others, im 100% convinced a player doing this in korea would be booted out of any league or tournament. Sadly you own americans dont all agree, if this was the case then Halo would be bigger in USA than BW is in Korea as the constant trash talk even amongst "pros" would propell the game to be bigger than NFL. Maybe i give americans too much credit but i honestly dont believe that What does Korean culture, which you even acknowledge as being totally and completely different, have to do with American gaming culture, which is what the entire op is about?? To boil it down to it's most simple form, the op said: Americans like their pros skilled and emotionally invested, and they would probably enjoy the game more if there was trash talking And jesus, all this talk about bigger than the NFL. A majority of Americans don't give a fuck about ANY competitive video games, good god. That whole last sentence just doesn't make any sense. On September 17 2010 07:40 Raevin wrote: It is amazing just how little you understand. The "Fuck you" is just a example of what the community has been like since it began. Which is why it never took off even 2 years ago when it was semi decent in Burning Crusade. It couldnt take off becuase of the douchebags playing the game, nobody wanted to watch that. The people who gave it a shot, left one by one, as they did worldofming.com Yes i know what your reply is "you just dont understand us americans brah, we need drama and BM, i wanna see a guy decapitaded on stage next MLG that would bring esport to the masses not all this "well mannered" s*** brah" You said it was successful two years ago. Your own words (emphasis mine, since reading doesn't seem to be your strong point) On September 17 2010 07:28 Raevin wrote: Did anyone catch MLG WoW Arena? At one point, a player from a team said "Hey (some name from other team), fuck you!" Do you know where WoW arena pro scene is now? People doing PvP is at all time low, several community websites have to be closed down such as worldofming.com, simply because people lost interest and nobody wants to watch such behaviour. That site lost viewership because the content by the "bloggers" was focused on trash talking and smearing others, yet it soared with success 2 years ago when it talked about the actual game, giving people tips on arena and just being a positive place to be. If Teamliquid decided to have people write blogs about how shitty [insert_player] is and how stupid they are while using stupid 4chan memes and other childish behaviour i can guarrantie you they lose alot of the community they have built up. | ||
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teekesselchen
Germany886 Posts
On September 17 2010 07:46 pookychoo wrote: + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXh1sKkcYb8 i wish there was more of this Oh my god that crappy staging really suits CGS, as it's been an utter failure ever since... That's just plain stupid and I hope it won't ever occur again in eSports... | ||
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Raevin
246 Posts
What does Korean culture, which you even acknowledge as being totally and completely different, have to do with American gaming culture, which is what the entire op is about?? To boil it down to it's most simple form, the op said: Americans like their pros skilled and emotionally invested, and they would probably enjoy the game more if there was trash talking And jesus, all this talk about bigger than the NFL. A majority of Americans don't give a fuck about ANY competitive video games, good god. That whole last sentence just doesn't make any sense. Perhaps they dont give a fuck because of the bad image of pro video game players who like speak like former KKK members, homophobes and generally BM people? Ever thought of that? Did that idea ever cross your mind that perhaps that is why nobody wants to watch it in america? You said it was successful two years ago. Your own words (emphasis mine, since reading doesn't seem to be your strong point) The site was successfull 2 years ago when it FOCUSED ON THE GAME, not the drama within the game, they lost viewers because of that. People came to the site to read the tips of pros, then it gradually turned into a BM site full of 4chan gags and garbage smearing, people left because of that. ...screw it, becuase its not going to sink it, becuase you simply refuse to think logically here. Your opinion is that HuK needs to beat up Day9 at the next MLG event, go to the commentator booth and cuss him out while stomping on him, that is what america wants! And you have totally failed to realise that you are ROOTING for bad manners in a videogame, yes you, you want this to go on, and to become even bigger. | ||
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