Bad manner is a sign of emotional weakness and poor character. If someone is saying something bad mannered, they are making a choice to vocalize themselves in a way that they know to be purely negative. If they are choosing to do so, they must have such poor control of their emotions to where their emotions trump their logic. Anyone who allows themselves to act that way is weak in my eyes.
So Muhammed "I Am the Greatest" Ali, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and all the other legendary athletes who were also famous trash talkers, are "weak"?
Clearly, you've got a different definition of "weak" than most Americans.
I think a bit of drama only helps attach more interesting storys to E-spots, a good guy like TLO is less compelling as a character (which is what he becomes) if he doesn't have a bad guy to overcome (like idra). A bit of BM is good for E-sports in my eyes.
On September 17 2010 03:23 Fa1nT wrote: They want SC2 to be a real sport.
Kinda odd, since in real sports, there is almost always a "the bad guy", that does stuff like headbutt people, punches people, rages hard at stuff .
wtf? what is good in all this things. maybe it would be entertaining for many people to see some sc nerds get laughed, trashtalked and kicked in the ass during the gym in school.
beeing entertained when someone gets bmed is just weak and a society where this kind of stuff is a ideal is a weak society imo. why we dont get back to the old rome and let some people slit their throat in a colosseum.. guess that would be entertaining for some guys too.
Honnestly I like the fact that overall the community is rather polite and mannered. It makes the eventual bm funnier and it's really great not to have everyone flaming and bming each other daylong. I'm from Wow and there everyone was being cocky and arrogant all the time, you get used to it but its pretty annoying nonetheless.
So, I would not encourage BM, I try to be well mannered most of the time, but it can be funny sometimes to see someone BMing as long as it is rare.
On September 17 2010 03:30 Deadlyfish wrote: If everyone was BM then the community would quickly degenerate into what WoW or Xbox Live is today, which is nerds talking trash. The Sc2 community is the most well mannered and high quality community of any game, and i like that. I cant see how anyone would prefer anything else.
I wouldnt compare it to sports, in sports BM is frowned upon aswell, atleast where i come from.
I'd turn it around and ask: why do people have a problem saying "gg" and glhf"? Takes you 0,5 seconds to write it, but for some reason you dont?
WoW actually had an awesome community until Blizz started handing out free epics and gearscore came out -_-. I hope SC never degenerates to that level. It gets kinda annoying when u have people in half ur scrims go on a rant about noobs and wallhackers (CS....lets not even get into public servers) or people in half ur instances rage about gear and ppl sucking when they're usually terrible themselves (Wotlk).
I don't get how people can say that athletes have a responsibility to kids/the younger generation/etc. They don't get paid to set a good example, they are paid to perform and cause revenue generating activities for their owners (ticket sales).
The fact is, professional athletes have no responsibility to set an example for the young people that look up to them. That is just your idealistic viewpoint - the athletes didn't choose or ask for people to look up to them.
Right, Charles Barkley had a famous ad where he just said, "I am not a role model. Just because I dunk a basketball doesn't mean I should raise your kids."
why do you think idra has as much attention as he does? because he plays solid? there are plenty of people who play absolutely solid and don't get half the attention he does or for that matter firebathero? i love FBH for the same reason everyone else does cuz he bms the fuck out of people and that causes people like much to bm him and its a lot more entertaining for the fans.
i bm people all the time when i'm in the mood. i'll just drop a hatch at their mined out nat after i destroy it. i wish you could chronoboost enemy buildings cuz that would be absolutely hilarious.
Bad manner is a sign of emotional weakness and poor character. If someone is saying something bad mannered, they are making a choice to vocalize themselves in a way that they know to be purely negative. If they are choosing to do so, they must have such poor control of their emotions to where their emotions trump their logic. Anyone who allows themselves to act that way is weak in my eyes.
So Muhammed "I Am the Greatest" Ali, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and all the other legendary athletes who were also famous trash talkers, are "weak"?
Clearly, you've got a different definition of "weak" than most Americans.
The american way of being cocky in sport isnt something to emulate...
On September 17 2010 03:12 awesomoecalypse wrote: At least in America, we *expect* our athletes to talk trash. We like it, and we idolize them for it.
The fact is, America is not Korea. In Korea,
Sooo your way is the right way? The pure fact is that we are all humans and that being bad mannered is simply inacceptable in sports. Sure the beerdrinker faction with an IQ of below 60 will cheer more for violence (trash talking and the WWF), but do not expect the rest of the world to sink to this standard without putting up a fight.
Sports celebrities are idols for younger generations and thus they have responsibilities towards the next generation. Kids will behave as their idols show them to do, but without fully understanding the whole picture (i.e. that it is only for show). This will result in them using that BM-bullshit in their daily life and that is where it is NOT WANTED. If you dont recognize why this is bad I would suggest some real hard thinking.
I hate this argument so much. How about the parents teach their kids what's acceptable and whats not? If you don't realize personal morals are opinions than you need to do some real hard thinking.
EVERYONE is part of the teaching process and the parents are almost powerless compared to the media. So its not only the parents fault when the kids "go nuts" and start shooting other kids, but moreso the fault of the society which condones / idolizes violence as a way to solve problems.
On September 17 2010 03:31 Sl4ktarN wrote: What is the problem with a nice community?
There's nothing wrong a nice community, it's just that competition has the side effect of stirring strong emotion on both sides. Just because a player is extremely angry that he lost doesn't mean that he would shoot his (terran) opponent if given the chance.
The biggest difference I see between FPS (where shit talking is common) and SC gaming is that in an FPS, you can leave the game / server at any time and join another server. SC ladder you're stuck in the game with your opponent until it ends.
I am very happy that the SC community is so well mannered, it makes for a much better community overall then shooters where the entire community is viewed as raging 13 year olds screaming about eachother's mothers.
I enjoy a certain amount of entertaining BM before and after games, but I really don't want to see it become the norm and begin to spiral down.
for example FBH and idra are 2 of my favorite players, for completely different reasons then why I like Jaedong/Stork
On September 17 2010 03:12 awesomoecalypse wrote: At least in America, we *expect* our athletes to talk trash. We like it, and we idolize them for it.
The fact is, America is not Korea. In Korea,
Sooo your way is the right way? The pure fact is that we are all humans and that being bad mannered is simply inacceptable in sports. Sure the beerdrinker faction with an IQ of below 60 will cheer more for violence (trash talking and the WWF), but do not expect the rest of the world to sink to this standard without putting up a fight.
Sports celebrities are idols for younger generations and thus they have responsibilities towards the next generation. Kids will behave as their idols show them to do, but without fully understanding the whole picture (i.e. that it is only for show). This will result in them using that BM-bullshit in their daily life and that is where it is NOT WANTED. If you dont recognize why this is bad I would suggest some real hard thinking.
I hate this argument so much. How about the parents teach their kids what's acceptable and whats not? If you don't realize personal morals are opinions than you need to do some real hard thinking.
EVERYONE is part of the teaching process and the parents are almost powerless compared to the media. So its not only the parents fault when the kids "go nuts" and start shooting other kids, but moreso the fault of the society which condones / idolizes violence as a way to solve problems.
EVERYONE is part of the teaching process and the parents are almost powerless compared to the media. So its not only the parents fault when the kids "go nuts" and start shooting other kids, but moreso the fault of the society which condones / idolizes violence as a way to solve problems.
What the fuck does this have to do with anything? Are you seriously claiming that if Starcraft players act cocky and talk trash, its gonna lead directly to people shooting each other, and that this would somehow be the fault of those players and not of their parents?
I seriously hope you never have kids, if thats your attitude to a parents' responsibility.
Huh... didn't think people actually idolzied those who trash talked. I find it funny of course, but idolize it? Wish they did it(besides for laughs)? Heck no.
It's because people want to be nice, and want to be treated nice. If you lose, you have no reason to trash talk/bm them. You can be angry, but if you are that angry most likely they cheesed you, and you yourself could've easily won if you had scouted it.
It's because we're a nice community, and this thread makes me sad.
On September 17 2010 03:37 Arm4n wrote: why do you think idra has as much attention as he does? because he plays solid? there are plenty of people who play absolutely solid and don't get half the attention he does or for that matter firebathero? i love FBH for the same reason everyone else does cuz he bms the fuck out of people and that causes people like much to bm him and its a lot more entertaining for the fans.
i bm people all the time when i'm in the mood. i'll just drop a hatch at their mined out nat after i destroy it. i wish you could chronoboost enemy buildings cuz that would be absolutely hilarious.
They get attention because they're an anomaly...if everyone was BM then they'd get no attention because everyone does it. When someone talks shit in other games no one cares because 90% of other people are the same way. In SC most people are good manner so BM ppl stand out more. Personally I like it that way.
EPT
