On September 07 2010 07:55 ArvickHero wrote: KeSPA never killed off GOM, it was the teams and their lack of participation because they didn't want their players to have a distraction (GSL).
And what the fuck are you saying KeSPA didn't try hard enough to expand? They fucking basically created the IeSF, International eSports Federation, and they invited foreign players into team houses. It's not their fault that these foreigners basically failed on their own merits, unable to compete at all w/ the Koreans. Plus, KeSPA is for the KOREANS, so its not their responsibility to look over and nurture the growth of China's, Germany's or USA's eSports scene.
I think from the other thread... Kespa demanded money for broadcasting their players... but gomTV said they didn't have the rights. And then thats when the players pulled out. I don't know what you're talking about? (GSL????) And that led to gom being out of business. (sorry to repeat and making a history post)
I remember watching avertec intel classic season 3 effort vs jaedong, and jaedong just threw that game like it was nothing. He had a shot at finals too... so sad. check that game out, its almost as bad as a match fixing
On September 07 2010 07:55 ArvickHero wrote: KeSPA never killed off GOM, it was the teams and their lack of participation because they didn't want their players to have a distraction (GSL).
And what the fuck are you saying KeSPA didn't try hard enough to expand? They fucking basically created the IeSF, International eSports Federation, and they invited foreign players into team houses. It's not their fault that these foreigners basically failed on their own merits, unable to compete at all w/ the Koreans. Plus, KeSPA is for the KOREANS, so its not their responsibility to look over and nurture the growth of China's, Germany's or USA's eSports scene.
I think from the other thread... Kespa demanded money for broadcasting their players... but gomTV said they didn't have the rights. And then thats when the players pulled out. I don't know what you're talking about? (GSL????) And that led to gom being out of business.
I remember watching avertec intel classic season 3 effort vs jaedong, and jaedong just threw that game like it was nothing. He had a shot at finals too... so sad. check that game out, its almost as bad as a match fixing
Or maybe he's too tired and didn't have enough practice, he was a one man team and had the other 2 individual leagues to deal with.
Erm.. no, just teams pulled their support from GSL because they felt GSL was an unnecessary distraction. KeSPA gave their seal of approval in Season 2 I believe, but pulled it in Season 3 because not every team was participating. Even those who stayed in GSL Season 3, most progamers barely practiced for it at all because it was at the very last thing on their priority list (Iris being one of those exceptions).
On September 07 2010 07:48 Klive5ive wrote: Of course I know what KeSPA stands for but Starcraft isn't just about Korea anymore.
So you're saying that a korean entity formed by some of the largest korean sponsors shouldn't look out for korean interests... interesting.
You know, if SC isn't about Korea, then why the fuck doesn't your precious Blizzard try to create it into an esport outside of Korea? oh yeah because its not that simple. Artificially creating what has taken years to develop is insanely risky. To create a true esport (not just an individual league like GSL), you'll need to find players who will commit to contracts, find them sponsors to shell out big money for housing/food/equipment/uniforms/full-time coaching staff/transportation, negotiate with TV networks who will guarentee to provide airtime on a regular basis and find sponsors for those leagues. If any of those elements should fail, the entire structure collapses, and as such its very risky and very time consuming.
Blizzard has never (not once in the past 10 years) attempted to develop any sort of organized esport in Europe or the US. They let KeSPA build up in korea, get lots of fans, and then tried to push their way in. So if you like to complain so much about why KeSPA hasn't cared enough for foreign interests, why hasn't blizzard?
Yes! Proteams and sponsors boycotting Blizzard and SC2 together. That's what you get for trying to monopolize something that doesn't belong to you Blizzard. Now you will lose popularity for your inferior tournament along with SC2 sales.
On September 07 2010 08:11 ArvickHero wrote: Erm.. no, just teams pulled their support from GSL because they felt GSL was an unnecessary distraction. KeSPA gave their seal of approval in Season 2 I believe, but pulled it in Season 3 because not every team was participating. Even those who stayed in GSL Season 3, most progamers barely practiced for it at all because it was at the very last thing on their priority list (Iris being one of those exceptions).
GSL as in... Global Starcraft 2 League?
I'm gunna assume you're saying gomTV star league then.
Well for one thing, I've never seen Jaedong like that, even if he had a lot on his plate. As you can see, he doesn't give up even when he has WCG final, MSL final, OSL ro4... Just neva thought that would happen to my favorite player.. And if they did pull out for that reason, thats like a major 'screw you' on the whole foreign scene as it was the only leagues that were in touch with english-speaking community.
Anyways, this is going to be terrible if the pro teams start boycotting? For one thing, we may lose SC2, and for another, it will be too late for BW. I guess scheduling a different time slot for PL might make too much of an impact on the whole scene
Lets just hope gomTV plays its cards right. I can't even tell if its just a bluff.. but kespa's threat is a high stake...
On September 07 2010 07:38 Klive5ive wrote: Kespa refused to sanction the tournament from the start. They never even attempted to expand to the foreign markets with their MSL/OSL.
KeSPA didn't actually force anything until mid-season 3 (hence no season 4). And do you even know what KeSPA stands for?? their number 1 priority is and will always be the korean fans and public. And they are working towards steps to go outside of Korea, as seen with the OSL finals being in Shanghai as well as the STX masters in China. China is the only other place in the world with a decent semi-pro bw community, so they are a logical choice for a partnership.
It all comes back to the point that they had chance to negotiate and didn't. They didn't try hard enough to expand. GomTV had intel and blizzard sponsoring their tournaments and they did well enough to continue for 3 seasons.
Of course I know what KeSPA stands for but Starcraft isn't just about Korea anymore.
Did you even follow the negotiations before Gretech signed the deal? The terms Blizzard had given to KeSPA were totally ridiculous. It's a given that those Blizzard offered to Gretech were much more lenient, as well as the fact that Gretech's aspirations weren't even half as big as KeSPA (remaining the governing body for BW esports in Korea and maybe even expanding to SC2). Gretech was given a 3 year contract just like that, while KeSPA were supposed to accept a 1 years contract so that it's not even beneficial for them to invest into SC2?
Face it, Gretech is comfortable with being a mere puppet, while KeSPA is not. Not to mention Gretech has no idea how to make SC2 esports work (as they obviously do not understand how crucial proteams are to esports).
This is good news. Pro-teams and their sponsors (many of whom are giant Korean companies) are united against Blizzard and Gom. Pro-teams, especially the pro league, are great advertising venue's for them, and at the point where Blizz/Gom not only want to kill BW and prevent teams from reforming in Sc2, they've got a strong incentive to win this battle. When this gets to court, there will be no contest between how much money and influence they can bring to bear. As far as i can tell, at least 5 of the pro teams are sponsored by Chaebol (SKT, KT, Samsung, STX, and CJ), another 2 are sponsored by major television companies (MBC and Hite), most of the rest are sponsored by large companies, and ACE is sponsored by the fucking government itself. Blizz and Gom are fighting out of their league.
On September 07 2010 08:29 deafhobbit wrote: This is good news. Pro-teams and their sponsors (many of whom are giant Korean companies) are united against Blizzard and Gom. Pro-teams, especially the pro league, are great advertising venue's for them, and at the point where Blizz/Gom not only want to kill BW and prevent teams from reforming in Sc2, they've got a strong incentive to win this battle. When this gets to court, there will be no contest between how much money and influence they can bring to bear. As far as i can tell, at least 5 of the pro teams are sponsored by Chaebol (SKT, KT, Samsung, STX, and CJ), another 2 are sponsored by major television companies (MBC and Hite), most of the rest are sponsored by large companies, and ACE is sponsored by the fucking government itself. Blizz and Gom are fighting out of their league.
Assuming these groups are united, Blizzard has no chance of taking this to court. Big companies have a lot of influence on the courts and politicians in Korea and it's more than likely that they will just tell Blizzard and Gretech to get lost. I wonder what Blizzard would do in this case though. Furthermore, I think Korean courts would lean towards favouring Korea corporations rather than American ones.
Edit: it's obvious that Blizzard will know much more about this than me though.
On September 07 2010 08:12 moopie wrote: Blizzard has never (not once in the past 10 years) attempted to develop any sort of organized esport in Europe or the US. They let KeSPA build up in korea, get lots of fans, and then tried to push their way in. So if you like to complain so much about why KeSPA hasn't cared enough for foreign interests, why hasn't blizzard?
They do run tournaments for WC3 and WoW. Starting from Blizzcon, also SC2.
On September 07 2010 08:12 moopie wrote: Blizzard has never (not once in the past 10 years) attempted to develop any sort of organized esport in Europe or the US. They let KeSPA build up in korea, get lots of fans, and then tried to push their way in. So if you like to complain so much about why KeSPA hasn't cared enough for foreign interests, why hasn't blizzard?
They do run tournaments for WC3 and WoW. Starting from Blizzcon, also SC2.
Blizzcon is as far away from an esport as possible. Games at Blizzcon are more or less showmatches to generate interest in the game, and they occur once a year... Blizzards other tournaments like WoW's recent announcement of the $200,000 arena tournament, which btw costs $20 per applicant to register, so its actually going to make money for them in the longrun even after the prizepools are few and far between, and again have nothing to do with esports or professional gaming on any reasonable level. I expect the same shit to happen with the SC2 proleague ladder.
On September 07 2010 08:29 deafhobbit wrote: This is good news. Pro-teams and their sponsors (many of whom are giant Korean companies) are united against Blizzard and Gom. Pro-teams, especially the pro league, are great advertising venue's for them, and at the point where Blizz/Gom not only want to kill BW and prevent teams from reforming in Sc2, they've got a strong incentive to win this battle. When this gets to court, there will be no contest between how much money and influence they can bring to bear. As far as i can tell, at least 5 of the pro teams are sponsored by Chaebol (SKT, KT, Samsung, STX, and CJ), another 2 are sponsored by major television companies (MBC and Hite), most of the rest are sponsored by large companies, and ACE is sponsored by the fucking government itself. Blizz and Gom are fighting out of their league.
Assuming these groups are united, Blizzard has no chance of taking this to court. Big companies have a lot of influence on the courts and politicians in Korea and it's more than likely that they will just tell Blizzard and Gretech to get lost. I wonder what Blizzard would do in this case though. Furthermore, I think Korean courts would lean towards favouring Korea corporations rather than American ones.
Edit: it's obvious that Blizzard will know much more about this than me though.
How does IP rights come into play here? Isn't it an international law?
Also, this is just thoughts, but imagine Boxer giving a public speech "Please don't play SC2." I mean how jaw-dropping would that be? A guy that had no bias against games of sorts and always wanting to take e-sports world-wide. This is gunna be crazzzy.
On September 07 2010 08:12 moopie wrote: Blizzard has never (not once in the past 10 years) attempted to develop any sort of organized esport in Europe or the US. They let KeSPA build up in korea, get lots of fans, and then tried to push their way in. So if you like to complain so much about why KeSPA hasn't cared enough for foreign interests, why hasn't blizzard?
They do run tournaments for WC3 and WoW. Starting from Blizzcon, also SC2.
Blizzcon is as far away from an esport as possible. Games at Blizzcon are more or less showmatches to generate interest in the game, and they occur once a year... Blizzards other tournaments like WoW's recent announcement of the $200,000 arena tournament, which btw costs $20 per applicant to register, so its actually going to make money for them in the longrun even after the prizepools are few and far between, and again have nothing to do with esports or professional gaming on any reasonable level. I expect the same shit to happen with the SC2 proleague ladder.
There's prizes for the proleague once a year, so I guess it doesn't count as an e-sport by your logic. Play games + have prize money + broadcast = ESPORTS.
On September 07 2010 08:12 moopie wrote: Blizzard has never (not once in the past 10 years) attempted to develop any sort of organized esport in Europe or the US. They let KeSPA build up in korea, get lots of fans, and then tried to push their way in. So if you like to complain so much about why KeSPA hasn't cared enough for foreign interests, why hasn't blizzard?
They do run tournaments for WC3 and WoW. Starting from Blizzcon, also SC2.
Blizzcon is as far away from an esport as possible. Games at Blizzcon are more or less showmatches to generate interest in the game, and they occur once a year... Blizzards other tournaments like WoW's recent announcement of the $200,000 arena tournament, which btw costs $20 per applicant to register, so its actually going to make money for them in the longrun even after the prizepools are few and far between, and again have nothing to do with esports or professional gaming on any reasonable level. I expect the same shit to happen with the SC2 proleague ladder.
There's prizes for the proleague once a year, so I guess it doesn't count as an e-sport by your logic. Play games + have prize money + broadcast = ESPORTS.
Tournament that lasts a few days vs tournament that is played 5 days a week (most weeks) for a year. Tournament with random people vs tournament with professional teams who train every day all year long. Online tournament vs live events with semis and finals hosted at very large televised venues.
On September 07 2010 08:12 moopie wrote: Blizzard has never (not once in the past 10 years) attempted to develop any sort of organized esport in Europe or the US. They let KeSPA build up in korea, get lots of fans, and then tried to push their way in. So if you like to complain so much about why KeSPA hasn't cared enough for foreign interests, why hasn't blizzard?
They do run tournaments for WC3 and WoW. Starting from Blizzcon, also SC2.
Blizzcon is as far away from an esport as possible. Games at Blizzcon are more or less showmatches to generate interest in the game, and they occur once a year... Blizzards other tournaments like WoW's recent announcement of the $200,000 arena tournament, which btw costs $20 per applicant to register, so its actually going to make money for them in the longrun even after the prizepools are few and far between, and again have nothing to do with esports or professional gaming on any reasonable level. I expect the same shit to happen with the SC2 proleague ladder.
There's prizes for the proleague once a year, so I guess it doesn't count as an e-sport by your logic. Play games + have prize money + broadcast = ESPORTS.
It seems to me that you didn't read his post at all and just replied randomly.
Electronic Sports, abbreviated e-Sports is used as a general term to describe the play of video games competitively.
... are we seriously going down this road? lol.
So every game with any PvP aspect is an esport now? so you want to use a definition according to which there are somewhere around 100,000 esports around?
You want to argue semantics on a forum where that term means a specific thing?
On September 07 2010 08:12 moopie wrote: Blizzard has never (not once in the past 10 years) attempted to develop any sort of organized esport in Europe or the US. They let KeSPA build up in korea, get lots of fans, and then tried to push their way in. So if you like to complain so much about why KeSPA hasn't cared enough for foreign interests, why hasn't blizzard?
They do run tournaments for WC3 and WoW. Starting from Blizzcon, also SC2.
Blizzcon is as far away from an esport as possible. Games at Blizzcon are more or less showmatches to generate interest in the game, and they occur once a year... Blizzards other tournaments like WoW's recent announcement of the $200,000 arena tournament, which btw costs $20 per applicant to register, so its actually going to make money for them in the longrun even after the prizepools are few and far between, and again have nothing to do with esports or professional gaming on any reasonable level. I expect the same shit to happen with the SC2 proleague ladder.
There's prizes for the proleague once a year, so I guess it doesn't count as an e-sport by your logic. Play games + have prize money + broadcast = ESPORTS.
Tournament that lasts a few days vs tournament that is played 5 days a week (most weeks) for a year. Tournament with random people vs tournament with professional teams who train every day all year long. Online tournament vs live events with semis and finals hosted at very large televised venues.
Try again.
all games start somewhere bubs. The future for sc2 Out weighs the future for BW. No one can deny how great bw is/was. But for esports to grow beyond a small niche.. sc2 needs to happen. and imo its a great successor
EPT
