EPT[Update p.28] Gretech - KeSPA/MBC negotiations break down…
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TheMute
United States458 Posts
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moopie
12605 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:22 Klive5ive wrote: Because GOMTV has the rights and Kespa doesn't. It's as simple as that. That will be for a korean court to decide. On September 07 2010 07:22 Klive5ive wrote: They had no intention of developing SC2 as an esport or expanding to foreign markets like GOM is doing. Actually if it wasn't for the shit Blizzard pulled, and assuming good terms between the two I see no reason why KeSPA wouldn't have expanded to include SC2 as well. The teams (especially the richer ones like SKT and KT) would likely have added a SC2 team and a SC2 proleague/starleague could have been kicked off. The reason SC2 is being boycotted by KeSPA now is the result of the feud. On September 07 2010 07:22 Klive5ive wrote: And what happened? Kespa used its muscle to break the tournament apart. That was incredibly unreasonable. Ummm... What happened? a few of the teams pulled out because proleague is on 5 times a week and they preferred their players practicing for it. Face it, the GOMTV tournaments had such low audience in korea (they weren't even on TV ffs) that from a marketing perspective it wasn't as good of a time investment having your players worry about it as much. While you may have loved seeing Tasteless commentate, the teams don't really give a shit about him (teams that sponsor Korean cellphones for example don't really give a shit if they end up marketing to some schmuck in the US). The korean commentators for GOM were lousy as well. You forget that the korean esports structure is just that. The shit with KeSPA didn't actually hit the fan until 2009 (middle of season 3 of the GOMTV Intel Classic) when Blizzard interevened directly and became official sponsors of it. | ||
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Taku
Canada2036 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:26 darktreb wrote: No, the original GOMTV tournaments were fantastic for foreigners given that they had English commentary. Unfortunately we're the minority and they really weren't that good of tournaments from a Korean standpoint, which is the one that really matters. Second of all, Kespa is acting like pussies? Have you even read the thread? Bliz/Gretech potentially want to kill PL and the proteams so that GSL can run uncontested. Karma's a bitch so pro BW should just die? What? No, they don't want to kill PL they want the schedule changed. That is VERY different. And how do you know the GomTV tournaments were bad from a Korean standpoint? They had some fantastic finals. | ||
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mimikami
France77 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:15 T0fuuu wrote: i love how everyone suddenly starts caring abt proleague now that its threatened. even the players themselves admit they care more and practice harder for the indiv leagues. the only ppl that do care are managers cos PL is better selling power and the specialists that cant perform well in 2/3 matchups and need to worry more abt their place on the team then some ro16 qualifying hotshot. OR im completely wrong and PL actually gets a bigger audience than the indivs If you are not even sure, why made a post ? The Proleague is a joint venture between MBC, OGN, KeSPA and IEG ........ More games are played in the Proleague than all the other leagues combined, and the progamers themselves consider it to be the most important. Source : liquidpedia And in one of the OSL group selection, Flash clearly stated that he considers Proleague to be more important. Many SKT players (Fantasy, Bisu...) also said in the playoff last season that they only practiced for individual league in their spare time and focused only on Proleague. Individual leagues are only more important than Proleague when Proleague is in mid-season and their team is doing well. And yes, I have read somewhere from a translated Fomos article that PL has a bigger audience than individual leagues, but now I failed to find the article. But the difference is obvious if we compare the audience in a PL Grand Final and the audience in a SL final. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States8071 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:31 moopie wrote: Actually if it wasn't for the shit Blizzard pulled, and assuming good terms between the two I see no reason why KeSPA wouldn't have expanded to include SC2 as well. Well then why didn't they accept the deal that Gretech took? They got first chance to negotiate and failed miserably. On September 07 2010 07:31 moopie wrote: Ummm... What happened? a few of the teams pulled out because proleague is on 5 times a week and they preferred their players practicing for it. Face it, the GOMTV tournaments had such low audience in korea (they weren't even on TV ffs). Kespa refused to sanction the tournament from the start. They never even attempted to expand to the foreign markets with their MSL/OSL. Just to clarify I think Blizzard has been unreasonable from the start too. They should have left Broodwar alone and negotiated purely for SC2 rights. But now Gom has the rights they are entitled to negotiate and they probably already have bad blood with Kespa. | ||
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:34 Klive5ive wrote: No, they don't want to kill PL they want the schedule changed. That is VERY different. And how do you know the GomTV tournaments were bad from a Korean standpoint? They had some fantastic finals. I'm basing it off of what Korean friends have told me, and what posters like MrHoon and Milkis have written. People didn't care at all about GOM in Korea and the commentary was supposedly terrible relative to OGN/MBC. Personally I really enjoyed GOM and was sad to see the league die, but that doesn't affect the overall reality of it. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:34 Klive5ive wrote: No, they don't want to kill PL they want the schedule changed. That is VERY different. And how do you know the GomTV tournaments were bad from a Korean standpoint? They had some fantastic finals. Wanting SPL off primetime because they can't compete straight up is trying to muscle proleauge off (not to mention the rest of the demands). And we know because they had shitty live attendance in a tiny location, and poor viewing numbers from the korean community (which is where the focus is from the players, teams and sponsors). The players care for their home base, you will always come second. | ||
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hydraden
United States719 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:38 Klive5ive wrote: Kespa refused to sanction the tournament from the start. They never even attempted to expand to the foreign markets with their MSL/OSL. Never? Then why this OSL final will be held in Shanghai, China? Why they even hire idra, a noob from their points of view. And Nony. Several years ago, SKT1 hired Legend and PJ from China. But there is no success for these players. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:38 Klive5ive wrote: Kespa refused to sanction the tournament from the start. They never even attempted to expand to the foreign markets with their MSL/OSL. KeSPA didn't actually force anything until mid-season 3 (hence no season 4). And do you even know what KeSPA stands for?? their number 1 priority is and will always be the korean fans and public. And they actually are working towards steps to go outside of Korea, as seen with the OSL finals being in Shanghai as well as the STX masters in China. China is the only other place in the world with a decent semi-pro bw community, so they are a logical choice for a partnership. | ||
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DatTheMighty
Vietnam122 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:43 moopie wrote: KeSPA didn't actually force anything until mid-season 3 (hence no season 4). And do you even know what KeSPA stands for?? their number 1 priority is and will always be the korean fans and public. And they are working towards steps to go outside of Korea, as seen with the OSL finals being in Shanghai as well as the STX masters in China. China is the only other place in the world with a decent semi-pro bw community, so they are a logical choice for a partnership. It all comes back to the point that they had chance to negotiate and didn't. They didn't try hard enough to expand. GomTV had intel and blizzard sponsoring their tournaments and they did well enough to continue for 3 seasons. Of course I know what KeSPA stands for but Starcraft isn't just about Korea anymore. | ||
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prototype.
Canada4215 Posts
I'm worried about the future of esports =.= I'm an anti-killoffBW person so i hope blizzard+gretech loses. Even if it means the destruction of SC2. | ||
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
Or... did Kespa break another NDA? It's really frustrating hearing all these media and still not knowing what to think. I get a feeling I'm getting played by the media or something. Kespa pulled strings before, I don't like the feeling about Kespa being the kind of organization that can do this type of thing. I have yet to hear much from gomTV. I wish Kespa can keep things professional. But push comes to shove... sigh. Anyone know the impact of changing PL schedule? | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
And what the fuck are you saying KeSPA didn't try hard enough to expand? They fucking basically created the IeSF, International eSports Federation, and they invited foreign players into team houses. It's not their fault that these foreigners basically failed on their own merits, unable to compete at all w/ the Koreans. Plus, KeSPA is for the KOREANS, so its not their responsibility to look over and nurture the growth of China's, Germany's or USA's eSports scene. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:48 Klive5ive wrote: It all comes back to the point that they had chance to negotiate and didn't. While we're not privy to the exact negotiations over the years, Blizzard's demands (that did become public) were unreasonable, and pretty insane for a structure like KeSPA to agree to. Gretech/GOM agreed cause they are nobodys and have nothing to lose really. Blizz demanded a cut from league sponsors, team sponsors and broadcasters, the power to cancel leagues at will should they see it fit, power over player's contracts, the ability to reschedule players schedule around Blizzard's events, auditing KeSPA's finances, etc. Essentially, Blizzard wanted power over the entire structure while not actually contributing to it at all. Gretech on the other hand has GOM Player and GOMTV, and thats it. They have nothing to lose in the deal because they have nothing related to esports to begin with. They have no teams, no large korean sponsors, no player contracts. They can only stand to benefit of a deal, regardless of what it is. | ||
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Jerebread
Canada115 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:27 Noxide wrote: Players have always put PL first. Many players have said in interviews that if PL and Individual conflict, they will usually practice mostly for PL. I remember Effort remarking that Iris mostly practiced for GOM back when they played in the semis season 3 and not PL and he was a bit upset about it haha. I don't even think this is an issue, because who would come out in an interview and say, "hey, I look out for me first and not my team." Where do you think the majority of their practice partners come from? | ||
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hydraden
United States719 Posts
On September 07 2010 07:50 teamsolid wrote: I'm sure the players themselves value a PL win more than an individual league title, but when the fans judge the legacy/impact of a player MSL and OSL medals are what really matters. Yes, that's the culture differences we are talking about. They do not value as much as Americans for individual success. | ||
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