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On September 02 2010 02:02 aru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 01:17 Furycrab wrote:
My point is... If we the viewers or the players lose anything, it won't be to Blizzard, it will be to Kespa I'm reasonably sure that if Blizzard left the BW scene alone, I wouldn't be worrying about the danger of no more Proleague or MSL right now. Are you really saying otherwise? Really?
If they decided to back off, they resign every player, make a schedule to compete with the GSL, get bolder over time, possibly attempt to run exibition matches of SC2, they invite players to play, hold em all to huge contracts where they can't play for anyone else, and eventually when Blizzard thinks they have had enough, they start a huge suit where the biggest point of contention becomes: Well you were cool with giving us rights to the Proleague. That's pretty much how most of the dispute started for BW a few years ago.
I love proleague, and the various star leagues... I don't like how Kespa is holding the players to play only for them, and ignore the IP rights.
Even the latest bit in the rumor mill to come out is fairly laughable:
" Oh we want to pay for the IP for proleague, how much do you want, btw Proleague doesn't make a dime *hides the huge executive bonuses*. If GOMtv ask for anything we turn around and take it out of the players and the prize pools and make a huge press release on how it's GOMtv's fault and Blizzard hates the players" mahahahahah.
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On September 02 2010 04:09 Furycrab wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 02:02 aru wrote:On September 02 2010 01:17 Furycrab wrote:
My point is... If we the viewers or the players lose anything, it won't be to Blizzard, it will be to Kespa I'm reasonably sure that if Blizzard left the BW scene alone, I wouldn't be worrying about the danger of no more Proleague or MSL right now. Are you really saying otherwise? Really? If they decided to back off, they resign every player, make a schedule to compete with the GSL, get bolder over time, possibly attempt to run exibition matches of SC2, they invite players to play, hold em all to huge contracts where they can't play for anyone else, and eventually when Blizzard thinks they have had enough, they start a huge suit where the biggest point of contention becomes: Well you were cool with giving us rights to the Proleague. That's pretty much how most of the dispute started for BW a few years ago. I love proleague, and the various star leagues... I don't like how Kespa is holding the players to play only for them, and ignore the IP rights. Even the latest bit in the rumor mill to come out is fairly laughable: " Oh we want to pay for the IP for proleague, how much do you want, btw Proleague doesn't make a dime *hides the huge executive bonuses*. If GOMtv ask for anything we turn around and take it out of the players and the prize pools and make a huge press release on how it's GOMtv's fault and Blizzard hates the players" mahahahahah.
what the eff are you talking about? so many random sc2 players come on here to defend blizzard
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@furycrab,
ur mislead by the situation.
kespa doesnt hold the players up for huge contracts. kespa help the teams to OFFER the players a contract. the contracts are beneficial to the players as they rather be paid a base salary with bonus for winning games rather than simply relying on tournament winnings. July (the zerg player, not the month) once left his team for another because the old team only offered him pay-for-win where as the new team offered him a base salary + bonus-for-win.
so ya, despite all the drama, the players know they needed kespa.
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On September 02 2010 04:11 iamho wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:09 Furycrab wrote:On September 02 2010 02:02 aru wrote:On September 02 2010 01:17 Furycrab wrote:
My point is... If we the viewers or the players lose anything, it won't be to Blizzard, it will be to Kespa I'm reasonably sure that if Blizzard left the BW scene alone, I wouldn't be worrying about the danger of no more Proleague or MSL right now. Are you really saying otherwise? Really? If they decided to back off, they resign every player, make a schedule to compete with the GSL, get bolder over time, possibly attempt to run exibition matches of SC2, they invite players to play, hold em all to huge contracts where they can't play for anyone else, and eventually when Blizzard thinks they have had enough, they start a huge suit where the biggest point of contention becomes: Well you were cool with giving us rights to the Proleague. That's pretty much how most of the dispute started for BW a few years ago. I love proleague, and the various star leagues... I don't like how Kespa is holding the players to play only for them, and ignore the IP rights. Even the latest bit in the rumor mill to come out is fairly laughable: " Oh we want to pay for the IP for proleague, how much do you want, btw Proleague doesn't make a dime *hides the huge executive bonuses*. If GOMtv ask for anything we turn around and take it out of the players and the prize pools and make a huge press release on how it's GOMtv's fault and Blizzard hates the players" mahahahahah. what the eff are you talking about? so many random sc2 players come on here to defend blizzard
Which part?
The first? It's no secret players under Kespa are limited in what they can say or even what they can play. (Nada) That's how Kespa has kept any and all leverage in the negotiations with GOM.
The second? If I tell you I'm willing to pay for something if you just name a price, and then I tell you that I currently don't make any money, I am basically saying that I will have to take that money from something. Likely from the players and from Kespa history, it would involve a huge ton of press. So ya, that's pretty laughable.
I work around IP and I believe in IP and how it's what pushes people to make great games. So ya I'd rather side with the guys making the game, than the guys that are trying to turn it into a show by forcing the players to just play for them.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
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I have sent them a very polite email regarding the issue but I would be surprise if the respond.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On September 02 2010 04:54 Lebesgue wrote:I have sent them a very polite email regarding the issue but I would be surprise if the respond.
Yea... Thanks though. I think with enough voice we can make an impact. If we can't muster enough support, then it will show them how small we really are -_-;
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Pretty interesting that OGN took the terms but the theoretically "bigger" MBCgame didn't comply.
Might be because accepting the terms have longer term consequences for the entire MBC network's negotiations and positioning?
(only a conjecture ofc)
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On September 02 2010 05:20 thedeadhaji wrote:
Pretty interesting that OGN took the terms but the theoretically "bigger" MBCgame didn't comply.
Might be because accepting the terms have longer term consequences for the entire MBC network's negotiations and positioning?
(only a conjecture ofc)
Do you means MBC's positioning as a team sponsor? MBC has its own channel, but so does OGN, and both would still be making money (not necessarily MORE money.. more on this later) by switching to SC2. I think it's a reflection of the instability of the transition from BW -> SC2 since a corporation's hesitations are representative of their profit insecurity should the transition happen. The reason there would be profit insecurity is because of consumer-based evaluations. And the reason the evaluations would cause insecurity is because there isn't much enthusiasm about this change within the market, at least no unified movement, which I'm sure Blizzard was hoping for.
Does anyone see any faults with the above reasoning? I was just conjecturing.
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FUCK BLIZZARD!!!! WHERE's the BLIZZARD FORM THE 90's!!!! HUH!?????
User was warned for this post
But seriously, Bizzard needs to be easier on Kespa. Although Kespa being idiots themselves don't help...
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Okay.
In germany you cant patent computer software.
Let them host MSL / OSL in germany!
edit: and if the law is the same in korea, then what is the problem?
fuck the gretech/blizzard-shit and see what they can do by korean law if the just dont stop hosting and televising tournaments. i bet they can do nothing.
ps: is it now generally forbidden to host tournaments and broadcast the games? for everybody? are lan events forbidden? broadcasted lan events? is this a popularity thing? or is it only forbidden in korea? and does wcg have to pay to gretech/blizzard?
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On September 01 2010 23:48 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 20:21 Rekrul wrote:
gotta love a thread full of misinformed idiots who all think they know whats going on babbling amongst eachother! This is 95% of TL nowadays
Joined TL.net Thursday, 18th of March 2010
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God dammit. I know this is typical corporate bullshit, but still pisses me off. Pro SCBW is just so much better than SC2. Personally I think without BW, we're gonna see how average a game SC2 really is.
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On September 02 2010 08:46 Heimatloser wrote:
Okay.
In germany you cant patent computer software.
Let them host MSL / OSL in germany!
edit: and if the law is the same in korea, then what is the problem?
fuck the gretech/blizzard-shit and see what they can do by korean law if the just dont stop hosting and televising tournaments. i bet they can do nothing.
ps: is it now generally forbidden to host tournaments and broadcast the games? for everybody? are lan events forbidden? broadcasted lan events? is this a popularity thing? or is it only forbidden in korea? and does wcg have to pay to gretech/blizzard?
according to Blizz, ANY tournaments for BW or SC2, regardless it is broadcasted or not must receive permission from Blizz.
for SC2, the EULA specifically demands that you GIVE Blizz ownership of all material you send to them, including game play data, which is collected as stream and as replay. it also includes every map you have created and played.
also, if you bought a physical copy of SC2, the disk itself is property of Blizz. you merely got a license to use the disk. if you violate the EULA, your term of use becomes void. continuing to play the game constitute piracy because you do not OWN the disk itself.
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I love proleague, and the various star leagues... I don't like how Kespa is holding the players to play only for them, and ignore the IP rights.
Do you think Real Madrid let Cristiano Ronaldo to play in random exhibition matches too ?
No, he plays only for them. It's the same with every professional everywhere. They represent their clubs and their leagues and can't play anywhere and for anybody without their permission.
Kespa protects their right to teams and image of pros because kespa pays for and organize the whole thing.
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according to Blizz, ANY tournaments for BW or SC2, regardless it is broadcasted or not must receive permission from Blizz.
for SC2, the EULA specifically demands that you GIVE Blizz ownership of all material you send to them, including game play data, which is collected as stream and as replay. it also includes every map you have created and played.
also, if you bought a physical copy of SC2, the disk itself is property of Blizz. you merely got a license to use the disk. if you violate the EULA, your term of use becomes void. continuing to play the game constitute piracy because you do not OWN the disk itself.
The situation is retarded. People should really become more aware and just ignore every company who tries to sell their products with such license. I hope one day it will come back to bite Blizz in the ass.
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To people pissed about Nada being removed: I see no problem with it. He may be a starcraft player, but that's not why he's paid. He gets paid for being positive PR for WeMade. KeSPA represents the teams and validates BW, so if they're doing something that wouldn't be beneficial to the company that pays the player for being good PR, then they have the responsibility to stop it.
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On September 02 2010 05:20 thedeadhaji wrote:
Pretty interesting that OGN took the terms but the theoretically "bigger" MBCgame didn't comply.
Might be because accepting the terms have longer term consequences for the entire MBC network's negotiations and positioning?
(only a conjecture ofc)
OnMedia, their parent company, is pretty darn big though... plus everything they do is cable-based, so they get actual $$$ for their products as well as advertising dollars. MBC is like the poor bastard child of the major TV stations; it's not as popular for its programming like KBS/KBS2 is, and it doesn't have SBS's sports muscle (exclusive winter olympics + yuna kim, exclusive world cup).
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On September 02 2010 04:09 Furycrab wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 02:02 aru wrote:On September 02 2010 01:17 Furycrab wrote:
My point is... If we the viewers or the players lose anything, it won't be to Blizzard, it will be to Kespa I'm reasonably sure that if Blizzard left the BW scene alone, I wouldn't be worrying about the danger of no more Proleague or MSL right now. Are you really saying otherwise? Really? If they decided to back off, they resign every player, make a schedule to compete with the GSL, get bolder over time, possibly attempt to run exibition matches of SC2, they invite players to play, hold em all to huge contracts where they can't play for anyone else, and eventually when Blizzard thinks they have had enough, they start a huge suit where the biggest point of contention becomes: Well you were cool with giving us rights to the Proleague. That's pretty much how most of the dispute started for BW a few years ago. I love proleague, and the various star leagues... I don't like how Kespa is holding the players to play only for them, and ignore the IP rights. Even the latest bit in the rumor mill to come out is fairly laughable: " Oh we want to pay for the IP for proleague, how much do you want, btw Proleague doesn't make a dime *hides the huge executive bonuses*. If GOMtv ask for anything we turn around and take it out of the players and the prize pools and make a huge press release on how it's GOMtv's fault and Blizzard hates the players" mahahahahah.
If you owned a major company with thousands of workers, would you just allow them to work for a rival company? Damn you people with your retarded arguments!
On September 02 2010 09:03 Mobius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 23:48 PanzerDragoon wrote:On September 01 2010 20:21 Rekrul wrote:
gotta love a thread full of misinformed idiots who all think they know whats going on babbling amongst eachother! This is 95% of TL nowadays Joined TL.net Thursday, 18th of March 2010
Doesn't change the fact, actually
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EPT
