EPTDespite Blizzards claims everything they seem to be doing including the new Bnet and now this seems to be completely against eSports.
[Update p.28] Gretech - KeSPA/MBC negotiations break down…
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
Despite Blizzards claims everything they seem to be doing including the new Bnet and now this seems to be completely against eSports. | ||
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Xunaka
United States43 Posts
On September 01 2010 14:04 palexhur wrote: I am sure SC2 community has some valuable people, why are only the clowns like xunaka, findingpride, I00I and a couple more coming to this thread when they dont even know what Kespa, e-sports and other important information mean?. Thats funny because, I never once said I wanted BW to die, nor did I say I'm Pro SC2? You seem to misconstrue quite a bit as I've been watching pro league for quite a long time.. It's sad that you're only valid point you could think to make is that you have to insult people. What I simply stated is that, I dislike KESPA for a lot of the things they've done in the past, and that blizzard isn't trying to kill off the BW scene.. Why would they kill off something that makes so much money? Infact I went out of my way to not make this a BW vs SC2 thread which is what most people intend to do, because they have some kind of issue with either game.. I don't see why people have to turn this into some kind of SC vs SC2 or personal attacks on each other, I respect your opinions on kespa and didnt write a post insulting you or them.. It's pretty childish I do not believe blizzard turned a blind eye to their IP being violated for 10 years either, more than likely KESPA and blizzard had many private contractual negotiations for many years as most companies do.. You never hear about those until there are issues, the same thing happens in the US with TV channels and broadcasters. Blizzard did not wake up one morning and say "We want to own and control esports" there was a long build up to it, resulting in money not being paid over periods of time.. You cannot take something someone else owns and then turn profit on it.. Without paying them royalties.. Blizzard tried to work with KESPA as well.. | ||
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ejac
United States1195 Posts
On September 01 2010 15:36 Scarecrow wrote: You can start laying the blame now. The negotiations are a sham. Ah yes, lets just accept one organizations biased statement over another organizations biased statements with no reasoning to back it up. Awesome. | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On September 01 2010 12:21 Bidouleroux wrote: Ignoring the law does not make you immune to it. Sure I can make money by selling someone else's property. I can also get arrested and put in prison after the fact. I fail to see how KeSPA does not end up in prison here. Edit @aru : I was responding to dybydx's interpretation of your post. This is korean law which is pretty ambiguous about this stuff. | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On September 01 2010 14:49 Nu11 wrote: I don't think this is as one sided as you all think. we all love brood war, It's still my favorite game of all time, even with SC2. I have been a spectator for BW for as long as I can remember. However, Starcraft belongs to Blizzard. No matter how much we may all wish it did not, it does. It is their IP, their game. Companies in the world, like KeSPA have been making a fortune off of blizzards IP. A lot of people scream a lot of negative things about blizzard here, but remember, blizzard created, made, refined, and provided us all with Starcraft. Not kespa, and not the pro gamers. Blizzard worked very hard on their new product, and did a fine job. It is absolutely a worthy successor to starcraft. Does that mean Brood war needs to end? of course not. Brood war will always be played. Blizzard is fine with that, but I feel they are tightening their grip over their rights. Why? It's their game. It's their IP, they own it. If you go to work every day and some random person is becoming a billionaire off of your product without purchasing licences or providing you with compensation that is not fair. You (Blizzard) should be a very important person in the direction of your own product. Now, not to say blizzard isn't being rude about it, but they have the right to be, not KeSPA or any broadcasting corporation. They must bow to blizzard and that is how it should be. We should be discussing ways in which blizzard can promote starcraft, and starcraft2 without ruining either of them. and @zenMaster your comments are pretty rude. KeSPA will not win because the IP is not theirs. and if it wasn't for Blizzard you'd of never had starcraft in the first place. SC2 is just as good a game, and it certainly isnt about balls of units rolling over balls of units. SC1 was like that as well when it first came out. The better players (mainly korean) are microing and attaining apms that are very close to BW. the games are also very exciting. I'm just saying, you shouldn't generalize. Give the game time. It's only a month old. I'd like to see SC1 a month after it came out. I never came in to play it until it was over a year old, but even then people were playing really oddly. and there was none of the fancy things you see today. If i was to critize blizzard of anything it would be the speed in which they are pushing sc2. It takes time to do this transition. Broodwar is still in its prime. The progamers from SC1 will all switch to SC2 eventually, simply because it will provide far more income for the teams, but i dont think killing brood war right now is a good idea. let it transition slowly. I do believe however that kespa is just as much in the wrong as blizzard is, though. @Obelisk8 Kespa as an organization cares about money. Remember that. Money first, starcraft second. They are just as much a tyrant as blizzard. Two sides to every coin. We're not talking about Canada here. We're talking about Korea. Different set of laws. Canadian law does not apply to Korea. Kinda like how you can't get sued for downloading music because of some tax in Canada. In the US its different. Same situation with Korea. | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
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Gregsen
Germany667 Posts
On September 01 2010 20:21 Rekrul wrote: gotta love a thread full of misinformed idiots who all think they know whats going on babbling amongst eachother! throw in some truth then! Actually I've awaited you 8 pages ago  | ||
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Nu11
Canada167 Posts
On September 01 2010 20:12 hacpee wrote: We're not talking about Canada here. We're talking about Korea. Different set of laws. Canadian law does not apply to Korea. Kinda like how you can't get sued for downloading music because of some tax in Canada. In the US its different. Same situation with Korea. Good point, I retract any statements I had with regards to IP rights in korea if that's not the case, but I would hope korea, being an established nation would at least have the general IP rights. I can't imagine they don't. How would any business prosper without IP.. seems like it would just be a long chain of theft to me. | ||
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torfteufel
Germany86 Posts
but after what happened with the showmatch at the IEM in cologne (calling to stop the match they have agreed on (while it was going on ffs!) and then denying they had anything to do with it, like a 5 year old kid) i have lost what little faith i had left in kespa. i do not believe anything coming from them as they have no dignity whatsoever and it is not the first time nor the second you can catch a glimpse of the disgusting policies kespa sticks to. lets hope kespa will be dead soon and players wont get abused and restricted as much any more in the future. i keep my fingers crossed those arrogant lying bitches are put out of business ASAP... as long as there is interest in BW, and yes there still is and rightfully so, there will be pros playing it for the audience. | ||
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Gregsen
Germany667 Posts
On September 01 2010 21:36 torfteufel wrote: hope dies last they say but after what happened with the showmatch at the IEM in cologne (calling to stop the match they have agreed on (while it was going on ffs!) and then denying they had anything to do with it, like a 5 year old kid) i have lost what little faith i had left in kespa. i do not believe anything coming from them as they have no dignity whatsoever and it is not the first time nor the second you can catch a glimpse of the disgusting policies kespa sticks to. lets hope kespa will be dead soon and players wont get abused and restricted as much any more in the future. i keep my fingers crossed those arrogant lying bitches are put out of business ASAP... as long as there is interest in BW, and yes there still is and rightfully so, there will be pros playing it for the audience. Way to simplify things...without kespa, chances are high that the progaming teams will be disbanded. I want to see how you still want to have professional Broodwar after that. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8064 Posts
On September 01 2010 20:21 Rekrul wrote: gotta love a thread full of misinformed idiots who all think they know whats going on babbling amongst eachother! Words words words... You have something to add to the whole thing, or you just want to show that you know the shit? That's funny, because I am pretty sure that yourself, on a certain extend has no idea at all about what is going on. Most probably there must be a couple dozen people in total who can really say that they are well informed on that matter: people who have participated to the negociations, who know the financial situation of the Kespa and the pro-scene, etc etc... I don't take a great risk by assuming that you have no idea about theses details, and therefore that you can't judge the situation much better than anyone of us. QED | ||
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PanzerDragoon
United States822 Posts
On September 01 2010 20:21 Rekrul wrote: gotta love a thread full of misinformed idiots who all think they know whats going on babbling amongst eachother! This is 95% of TL nowadays | ||
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On September 01 2010 23:14 Biff The Understudy wrote: Words words words... You have something to add to the whole thing, or you just want to show that you know the shit? This. Though some people have definitely been too hasty to jump to conclusions, that kind of comment seems completely unnecessary. | ||
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_awake_
196 Posts
On September 01 2010 23:14 Biff The Understudy wrote: Words words words... You have something to add to the whole thing, or you just want to show that you know the shit? That's funny, because I am pretty sure that yourself, on a certain extend has no idea at all about what is going on. Most probably there must be a couple dozen people in total who can really say that they are well informed on that matter: people who have participated to the negociations, who know the financial situation of the Kespa and the pro-scene, etc etc... I don't take a great risk by assuming that you have no idea about theses details, and therefore that you can't judge the situation much better than anyone of us. QED he got more contacts than artosis, yo. | ||
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Furycrab
Canada456 Posts
This is an Ongoing battle for years between Blizzard who doesn't like Kespa ignoring it's IP rights and Kespa who thinks they don't owe nothing to Blizzard (since they helped put BW on Tv so to speak) From what I understand Blizzard effectively lost that battle a few years ago over BW because Kespa threatened to cut off any player who decided to go play for anything not affiliated with Kespa. (See GOMtv) However now since the money (Audience/Supply) is quickly shifting towards a new game, the hold Kespa has over the players is going to become tenuous at best, and while I'm fairly certain we will here some more bad press from Kespa on how this is horrible for the players, or that SC2 is the worst game ever... blah blah blah... eventually they will have to release the players to play whatever they want... Looking forward to SC2 fantasy leagues though. | ||
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Furycrab
Canada456 Posts
On September 01 2010 22:22 Gregsen wrote: Way to simplify things...without kespa, chances are high that the progaming teams will be disbanded. I want to see how you still want to have professional Broodwar after that. The progaming teams exist because of Kespa, no doubt. However Kespa is still alive and running despite legal and negotiating disputes because it can force it's teams to play only in Kespa approved leagues. All of that is basically run by us, namely the audience and what we want to watch. If most of us want to watch Sc2, eventually there will be more money playing for GOMtv. If Kespa decides to start a SC2 league, they get sued by another Korean corporation (Blizzards partner). If they decide to force the players to just play BW, eventually contracts will end and players might be offered bigger contracts to play for GOMtv... Heck once Kespa loses its grip on the players... you could see a BW league but with another partner. My point is... If we the viewers or the players lose anything, it won't be to Blizzard, it will be to Kespa trying one last attempt to flaunt the grip it has over the teams and the players... and to be honest... that will only last for as long as the players contracts will last. (Any player with a good manager shouldn't be tied into Kespa for that much longer less some seriously bad decisions were made) | ||
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aru
183 Posts
On September 02 2010 01:17 Furycrab wrote: My point is... If we the viewers or the players lose anything, it won't be to Blizzard, it will be to Kespa I'm reasonably sure that if Blizzard left the BW scene alone, I wouldn't be worrying about the danger of no more Proleague or MSL right now. Are you really saying otherwise? Really? | ||
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Neo7
United States922 Posts
And I'm pretty sure the Progamers knew the risks when they took a progaming career. Progaming isn't exactly a long-term career (look at BoxeR, that guy is barely hanging on and he just turned 30). It wouldn't be too hard for them to transition if the worst happens. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8064 Posts
Great. Doesn't change much from what I said, yo. | ||
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dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
it is expected that OGN had an easier deal because CJ owns both OGN and Gretech. while Gretech may claim both OGN and MBC are offered "the same deal", there are many ways to interpret "same". | ||
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