EPT[Update p.28] Gretech - KeSPA/MBC negotiations break down…
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
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SultanVinegar
United States372 Posts
I'm interested to see exactly what will go down if KESPA doesn't settle with them. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On September 01 2010 00:59 Mellotron wrote: If i was a progamer, i might be secretly crossing my fingers for BW to finally be laid to rest. That way i could get a chance to play a new game for christs sake. No one ever wonders if the players themselves already stuck on proteams might be wanting a change, no matter what the financial risk. You think they are sitting around praising kespa for telling nada what he can and cant play? Humans dont work like that. WTF? You make no sense. Progamers aren't imprisoned and stuck to proteams, they can quit and play SC2 if they want, as some of them have. BW doesn't need to fade away for them to have the choice. Progamers in teams right now get a salary from their team/sponsor as well as the chance to win individual league prizes. If BW was "laid to rest" that disappears. Most progamers will no longer receive a salary and the ones that do won't receive anything close to what they would have under the current system. Right now the majority of SC2 players and competitors receive no salary, and the rare players who are sponsored don't get paid nearly as much as BW pros do. And with Gretech focusing the (Korean) scene on individual matches, it's highly likely that team sponsorship will not reach the level that it has in BW as there's no team league like the latter has. If someone can get a team league running outside of Korea I will be pleasantly surprised. Another reason why OGN might agree to relatively poor terms while MBC might not is that OGN and Gretech share the same parent company...so what's taken away by one hand is given back by the other. MBC on the other hand... | ||
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Claytor656
United States15 Posts
On September 01 2010 06:44 SultanVinegar wrote: Activision/Blizzard is a publicly traded company. As such they have an obligation to their stockholders to try to generate profit. Clearly the stance they are taking is going to generate the most profit for their stockholders. I can't blame them. I'm interested to see exactly what will go down if KESPA doesn't settle with them. This is ver-the-fuck-batim the kind of attitude that leads to this shit in the first place. I'm so tired of seeing this apathetic "Well they DO need money, they ARE a company after all" crap. I like that you're interested to see what's going to happen when a non profit company that was going along fine for over 10 years before suddenly needing to compensate a company who decided that it was time to enact Intellectual property rights gets completely shafted. You think with WoW alone, they don't have enough money to easily compensate and keep a very lucrative industry going? Kotick knows exactly what he's doing and has stated several times his intentions. This isn't anything more than corporate showboating and muscle flexing. It's so sad to watch as an American, a BW player and someone who actually looked forward to SC 2 before I saw what it turned into. You can blame them all day. Just because they're maximizing profits and doing the shareholder first and foremost policy doesn't even necessarily make them a good company. It makes them a very good short term monetary juggernaut. Long term is completely up in the air, because quite frankly there are so many "what ifs" at stake in this that no one can say for certain what's going to happen when this all hit the fan. | ||
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
Perhaps they didnt drink enough  Anyways i hope u kespa fanboys rot. How anyone can be convinced they are for the good of esports when they destoyed the last gom starleague cos gom wouldnt be tied by the same chains and submit to kespa over blizz. The irony that now goms in a position to dominate kespa by burning down their house of esports and everything with it. The whole idea of kespa blocking the intel classic is even more stupid considering gom has sponsored kespa sanctioned leagues before. this shows they have no interest in the growth of esports that doesnt have them as the master. frankly mbc would do well to stay at the table. Its not like kespa has anything to give them. | ||
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Xunaka
United States43 Posts
On September 01 2010 06:42 Mooncat wrote: I just hope MBC/OGN & KeSPA don't give a fuck about it and just keep broadcasting until Blizzard takes the whole thing to court. And hopefully then, Blizzard will lose. Greedy Motherfuckers... OGN and Blizz/Gretech have already come to a reasonable agreement so GSL and OSL will be maintained.. Blizzard doesn't want BW to die, they want GSL to move ahead and KESPA is trying to kill any chance of SC2.. If OGN and Gretech could figure something out its pretty clear who's trying to screw who.. MBC/KESPA went ahead and broadcast without any right to without trying to work things out with either company.. While OGN worked things out and OSL is going on right now.. It's very clear that KESPA is being the close minded tyrannical force we all know, where mistyping or PP isn't good enough.. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On September 01 2010 07:39 Xunaka wrote: OGN and Blizz/Gretech have already come to a reasonable agreement so GSL and OSL will be maintained.. Blizzard doesn't want BW to die, they want GSL to move ahead and KESPA is trying to kill any chance of SC2.. If OGN and Gretech could figure something out its pretty clear who's trying to screw who.. MBC/KESPA went ahead and broadcast without any right to without trying to work things out with either company.. While OGN worked things out and OSL is going on right now.. It's very clear that KESPA is being the close minded tyrannical force we all know, where mistyping or PP isn't good enough.. How is that very clear at all? KeSPA would happily broadcast SC2 if the situation remained the same as BW for the past 7 years. But it's not, and that's solely because of Blizzard. There would probably already be plans for official KeSPA SC2 proleague/starleagues with real sponsors if Blizzard had just let the scene naturally evolve and run its course. | ||
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hellbound
United Kingdom2242 Posts
On September 01 2010 01:50 FindingPride wrote: story line is a joke and u havn't bought the game? out of curiosity since BW's story line is so wonderful have you played any game besides bw in the past 11 years? do you live in a cave? SC2 had a really really good storyline imo. but haters gonna hate.. slow down there cowboy, I haven't bought SC2 (never happen unless I'm the last person on the planet who wants to play BW, i.e. never happen) And I have personally experienced (us poor people have our ways) that the campaign is trash. Someone said somewhere that the Overmind's opening speech in the first Z campaign is better than, well everything in SC2 and I agree. No mayhap and no Fenix being able to throw down with the best of 'em or Kerrigan's last speech as human or whatever, just + Show Spoiler + some things are worth fighting for and time to kick this revolution into overdrive and the hero walking with his girl in his hands over the smoking battlefield into a sunset ending Back on topic: while the NDA means no hard facts are forthcoming and nothing is clear I personally pledge my (inconsequential) support to Kespa because fundamentally it depends on esports for its survival and it is meaningless without it, which means it will work to provide esport goodness (even in ways many may not like) despite anything and everything, it is its raison d'être. They are quite successful in their mission too. While, even though Blizz could care they don't really have to. And from the looks of things they don't, to me it seems the second they decide this cow is not worth milking they will throw everything out the window and go make another WoW expansion. | ||
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SirGlinG
Sweden933 Posts
On September 01 2010 02:01 Gregsen wrote: So what you're suggesting is that we shouldn't care about proteams getting disbanded and leagues forced to come to an end, and rather look how we can put bw out of the way as soon as possible to have a free road for sc2? Not at all. I'm speaking of how we shouldn't disagree with the growth of sc2 just because of bw being more difficult. I don't want any of the scenes to disband | ||
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Xunaka
United States43 Posts
On September 01 2010 06:42 Mooncat wrote: How is that very clear at all? KeSPA would happily broadcast SC2 if the situation remained the same as BW for the past 7 years. But it's not, and that's solely because of Blizzard. There would probably already be plans for official KeSPA SC2 proleague/starleagues with real sponsors if Blizzard had just let the scene naturally evolve and run its course. It's the same as when the GOM league first began and KESPA did a boycott/blackout of their events and basically made them fold.. KESPA is forbidding any progamer with a KESPA license from playing SC2. Why do you think IdrA and a few of the ex proleaguers are all staying clear away from KESPA and speak of their huge distaste? KESPA wants to be the dominate force in progaming in Korea, they have no control over SC2 thus they reject it. I firmly believe kespa coming out on top of this hurts everyone.. Where as Blizz/GOM proleague will continue maybe not under KESPA but thats really not that huge of a deal, BW proleague will exist until money cannot be made from it.. Blizzard never had the intention of killing BW for SC2.. Kespa forced that hand when they formally rejected SC2 making it a BW or SC2 only scene.. So the easiest and simplest sollution is KESPA = Gone life goes on | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On September 01 2010 08:11 Xunaka wrote: It's the same as when the GOM league first began and KESPA did a boycott/blackout of their events and basically made them fold.. KESPA is forbidding any progamer with a KESPA license from playing SC2. Why do you think IdrA and a few of the ex proleaguers are all staying clear away from KESPA and speak of their huge distaste? KESPA wants to be the dominate force in progaming in Korea, they have no control over SC2 thus they reject it. GOM run for 3 seasons (hardly close to 'first began' so get your facts right) with KeSPA players until teams gradually started pulling players out until the point where there was no point even running it, not that there was never any need for another individual league in the first place. At the end of the day the sponsors that make up KeSPA are the ones paying the players salaries, if they would prefer them not to play in other tournaments then they don't need to. I'm pretty sure it would be the same in other sports, the teams thought it was pointless and the players were not even practicing for it as much as they would the other leagues. Ex-proleague players is another thing you've just made up, who even has said anything of the sort? There is no point IdrA being on CJ simply for the fact it's not an SC2 team and no one else is playing it there, so what would be the point of him continuing his contract with them? He isn't part of the team if he's playing a different game. Sponsors can make their own SC2 teams if they wish, but they are not going to at this point because it does not have the organization and proven track record that KeSPA and its league offers. If Blizzard had just left the eSports alone then this would have not even been a problem in the first place and an SC2 proleague with a proper sponsor could have probably almost immediately started. Edit: ok you added even more stupid uninformed stuff: On September 01 2010 08:11 Xunaka wrote: I firmly believe kespa coming out on top of this hurts everyone.. Where as Blizz/GOM proleague will continue maybe not under KESPA but thats really not that huge of a deal, BW proleague will exist until money cannot be made from it.. Blizzard never had the intention of killing BW for SC2.. Kespa forced that hand when they formally rejected SC2 making it a BW or SC2 only scene.. So the easiest and simplest sollution is KESPA = Gone life goes on How is it not a huge deal, do you even understand what KeSPA represents? The sponsors of the proteams... with those there is no teams and is no proleague and the hundreds of current gamers get completely screwed other. This is a pointless discussion until you educate yourself correctly on the situation. There's zero benefit to Blizzard getting involved, it just requires more money from sponsors in what is already a very niche interest. It's got more chance of sending SC eSports back to the total beginning than actually improving anything. | ||
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Xunaka
United States43 Posts
▲ I want to join a team not associated with KeSPA. I don't have a specific team yet. " http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=148143 So please do not tell me I'm making things up, I'm also not going to sit and argue because it's clear you believe that KESPA is the almighty and great organization of joy and happiness that spreads flowers throughout the world. And they never perpetuated and banned players from playing in GOM, or SC2.. Or had any impact on the IEM showmatch between TLO and Nada which abruptly ended after KESPA involvement. There have never been disqualifications for a mistype into chat.. Sponsors go where the money is, its pretty clear that Korean Air is willing to work with blizzard since they have planes wrapped in SC2 logos. So all KESPA represents, is greed the same thing you're hating blizzard for.. Except blizzard in the end owns all rights to their product. GOM and gretech being in charge can only lead to good things, if OGN already signed on.. Clearly they aren't thinking it's the doom of their times. | ||
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Woosung
65 Posts
On September 01 2010 08:11 Xunaka wrote: It's the same as when the GOM league first began and KESPA did a boycott/blackout of their events and basically made them fold.. KESPA is forbidding any progamer with a KESPA license from playing SC2. Well, the progamers all signed contracts. They could've just resigned and played in GOM instead, without a montly salary. Makes sense? No not really. Hence why they didn't, and thus GOM wasn't too interesting. On September 01 2010 08:11 Xunaka wrote: Why do you think IdrA and a few of the ex proleaguers are all staying clear away from KESPA and speak of their huge distaste? KESPA wants to be the dominate force in progaming in Korea, they have no control over SC2 thus they reject it. First and foremost, IdrA is a joke. Anyone quoting IdrA is looked down upon by me. KeSPA has no interest in SC2, the marketing value in Korea is close to 0, and their players would rather stick to Brood War. On September 01 2010 08:11 Xunaka wrote: I firmly believe kespa coming out on top of this hurts everyone.. Where as Blizz/GOM proleague will continue maybe not under KESPA but thats really not that huge of a deal, BW proleague will exist until money cannot be made from it.. Blizzard never had the intention of killing BW for SC2.. Kespa forced that hand when they formally rejected SC2 making it a BW or SC2 only scene.. So the easiest and simplest sollution is KESPA = Gone life goes on Except BW/GOM could just run their little shiny GSL without discussing IP rights concerning Brood War. Also, having to renegotiate the broadcasting contract for each season is really retarded, Blizzard can terminate SC:BW whenever they see fit. And if my expectations are right, BW will only be allowed to live for one season, after which they probably won't be interested in continuing. | ||
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SultanVinegar
United States372 Posts
On September 01 2010 07:26 Claytor656 wrote: This is ver-the-fuck-batim the kind of attitude that leads to this shit in the first place. I'm so tired of seeing this apathetic "Well they DO need money, they ARE a company after all" crap. I like that you're interested to see what's going to happen when a non profit company that was going along fine for over 10 years before suddenly needing to compensate a company who decided that it was time to enact Intellectual property rights gets completely shafted. You think with WoW alone, they don't have enough money to easily compensate and keep a very lucrative industry going? Kotick knows exactly what he's doing and has stated several times his intentions. This isn't anything more than corporate showboating and muscle flexing. It's so sad to watch as an American, a BW player and someone who actually looked forward to SC 2 before I saw what it turned into. You can blame them all day. Just because they're maximizing profits and doing the shareholder first and foremost policy doesn't even necessarily make them a good company. It makes them a very good short term monetary juggernaut. Long term is completely up in the air, because quite frankly there are so many "what ifs" at stake in this that no one can say for certain what's going to happen when this all hit the fan. Kespa is non-profit? That's news to me. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On September 01 2010 08:26 Xunaka wrote: "- Have you decided a new team to join? ▲ I want to join a team not associated with KeSPA. I don't have a specific team yet. " http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=148143 IdrA never even played in proleague and that is just one persons comment when you implied there was actually multiple. On September 01 2010 08:28 SultanVinegar wrote: Kespa is non-profit? That's news to me. If you think its not, where does the profit come from? I'm really interested in where people get this idea eSports is magically making tons of money from somewhere. | ||
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Xunaka
United States43 Posts
On September 01 2010 08:27 Woosung wrote: First and foremost, IdrA is a joke. Anyone quoting IdrA is looked down upon by me. KeSPA has no interest in SC2, the marketing value in Korea is close to 0, and their players would rather stick to Brood War. I'm curious where these figures come from, or where people generate this blanket statement.. They aren't even given the choice or option. There are a lot of EX progamers playing SC2 right now, Sure you can hate on IdrA but he still was on CJ even if B team and still was in the scene and probably has a lot more input on the subject.. But players like Tester, JulyZerg, Nada, The oGs team.. All of them ex BW players clearly Sc2 has 0 potential.. Korean air having SC2 marketing on their planes.. 0 Potential.. Gretech and OGN signing on .. 0 Potential Starcraft 2 has been out for a month total time, the game hasn't even had time to evolve into anything, What makes the BW games interesting to watch isnt even the game(some of the time), its the players and the commentary.. because frankly I regret staying up till 9am EST watching a 50min TvT because it is pretty boring... the excitement is from the fans/players and commentators.. Its the atmosphere built around the game.. all of this can be done without KESPA and in another game.. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On September 01 2010 08:11 Xunaka wrote: It's the same as when the GOM league first began and KESPA did a boycott/blackout of their events and basically made them fold.. KESPA is forbidding any progamer with a KESPA license from playing SC2. Why do you think IdrA and a few of the ex proleaguers are all staying clear away from KESPA and speak of their huge distaste? KESPA wants to be the dominate force in progaming in Korea, they have no control over SC2 thus they reject it. KeSPA didn't shun GOM when the league 'first began'. The GOMTV Intel Classic ran for 2 seasons just fine (as did 4 seasons of GOM MSL before that). It was when Blizzard was trying to stick their foot in (during season 3, in 2009) that KeSPA pulled out of support for GOM. KeSPA is staying away from SC2 now because they have no rights to it, so its not fair to say they are shunning it when Blizzard is equally shunning them. This also stands for any player switching to SC2, which atm means they are forced to leave KeSPA teams (because KeSPA teams are BW teams). IdrA leaving CJ is only logical being a SC2 player, CJ has no use for him as a practice partner, and he has no use for them as practice partners. As it stands right now, CJ has no need of SC2 players (nor can they officially endorse that title as of now). | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On September 01 2010 08:40 Xunaka wrote: I'm curious where these figures come from, or where people generate this blanket statement.. They aren't even given the choice or option. There are a lot of EX progamers playing SC2 right now, Sure you can hate on IdrA but he still was on CJ even if B team and still was in the scene and probably has a lot more input on the subject.. But players like Tester, JulyZerg, Nada, The oGs team.. All of them ex BW players clearly Sc2 has 0 potential.. Korean air having SC2 marketing on their planes.. 0 Potential.. Gretech and OGN signing on .. 0 Potential Starcraft 2 has been out for a month total time, the game hasn't even had time to evolve into anything, What makes the BW games interesting to watch isnt even the game(some of the time), its the players and the commentary.. because frankly I regret staying up till 9am EST watching a 50min TvT because it is pretty boring... the excitement is from the fans/players and commentators.. Its the atmosphere built around the game.. all of this can be done without KESPA and in another game.. Do you think players will practice 3 years straight 12 hours a day just to be at Jaedong or Flash level if there is no money involved? Kespa is the sponsors. The money. Until Blizzard starts sponsoring 11 pro-gaming teams with SALARIES that reach up to 150+K a year, Kespa>Blizzard in terms of Esports. What is GSL? 85k for one person? Thats about half of what Bisu makes without winning anything. | ||
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Woosung
65 Posts
Marketing value = 0. Not game potential = 0. Korean Air are only displaying SC2 logos because they get paid by Blizzard to do so. Gretech is only running GSL because they get paid by Blizzard. OGN was forced into it. Samsung/SK Telecom/Korea Telecom/Hwaseung on the other hand, aren't getting any payment from Blizzard, they're insisting on throwing out millions of won each year for a televised billboard that probably don't even pay back what they have to spend. Oh and if you mean the fact that the players "don't have a choice, and are forced to stick with BW", I really don't see why they can't break their contracts, leave their teams, get a full time job and start playing SC2. Maybe it's not as tempting? | ||
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