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On August 14 2010 04:11 SpicyCrab wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 04:04 sikyon wrote:
IIRC western countries are democracies with laws regarding free speech.
If you don't like people saying the word rape that's your perogative and I respect that, but frankly everyone has a different opinion on everything (from swear words, racial slurs, and acts of violence). To attempt to impose your own viewpoint on a large community seems arrogant.
Free speech has nothing to do with my point whatsoever. Free speech refers to governments restricting your right to speak in a certain way. I am certainly not advocating that. I am not asking the moderation staff to 'crack down'', and I am not asking you to be banned for your words. I am pointing out to people why they shouldn't use a certain word and I am hoping that TL is smart enough to understand why I am right (and yes, I am 100% right.) I am asking people to be more mindful of the words they are using, that is all. (Also note that free speech has no bearing on TL whatsoever; it is a private organization and can moderate as it sees fit although I do not expect them to moderate according to my beliefs.) Edit: Also note, saying that "owned" is analagous to "slavery" is a stretch to say the least, saying "rape" is analagous to... "rape" is probably less of a stretch, no?
Yes actually free speech does. I can go around calling black people racial slurs and proclaiming white supremacy with protection under free speech if I wanted too (which would be weird since I'm asian). Of course such statements would be hurtful but they fall under the umbrella of my own opinions, as long as I am not attempting to incite violence.
Your post is directed towards "all of gaming" so you are not just addressing TL.
By saing you are 100% you are simply proving my point about you being arrogant.
And rape has many definitions. Raping the countryside doesn't mean I am going to go over to the nearest golpher hole and give'er.
The simple fact is that you are not right. Everybody percieves different words in different ways, and our opinions are protected. I feel sorry for your friend that she was raped, but frankly that doesn't preclude me from using the word rape or ever offending her ever again in that contect. Sure if I did it to her I might be a jerk, and if I did it intentionally I would definatly be a jerk, but not only is being a jerk a protected right but restricting my speech based on her experiences is a rediculous, overbroad premise.
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I can use whatever word I want. The last thing I want is politically correct feminists telling me what to do. So what, your feelings got hurt. Grow up, your feelings are going to get hurt many more times in life. Live with it.
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A great post which I think a lot of people should take a few minutes to reflect on.
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On August 14 2010 04:22 choboPEon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 04:21 travis wrote:On August 14 2010 04:17 choboPEon wrote:
This is nothing like the word niggardly being called racist because thats fucking stupid but associating the word rape with sexual assault is so completely understandable that it boggles the mind that someone would deny it. how is that at all understandable when you're watching a sc2 cast you have to purposely LACK understanding to not get that the word is being used differently Because niggardly means something completely different from nigger but rape means rape
and rape has more than one meaning...
that's the entire point of what we are talking about
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1. You don't mean actual physical rape, actually questioning someone's sexuality when you call them "gay" or "faggot", actually calling someone mentally deficient when you say "retarded". This is true.
However,
2. Consider just, I don't know, being polite? There's an attitude expressed here by some that it is incumbent on the listener, or reader, to get over their own feelings and just accept that the speaker intends something different. I fundamentally disagree. It's easy to avoid using those words and does no harm to the speaker/writer to not use them.
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United States43338 Posts
On August 14 2010 04:22 choboPEon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 04:21 travis wrote:On August 14 2010 04:17 choboPEon wrote:
This is nothing like the word niggardly being called racist because thats fucking stupid but associating the word rape with sexual assault is so completely understandable that it boggles the mind that someone would deny it. how is that at all understandable when you're watching a sc2 cast you have to purposely LACK understanding to not get that the word is being used differently Because niggardly means something completely different from nigger but rape means rape
Unfortunately rape does not simply mean rape.
–verb (used with object)
6.
to force to have sexual intercourse.
7.
to plunder (a place); despoil.
8.
to seize, take, or carry off by force.
When you rape someones base then the logical application of the verb would be definition 7, to plunder or despoil. Choosing to misinterpret it with definition 6, despite it being clearly absurd when applied to a collection of buildings, is just bad english.
Words in english have multiple meanings in different contexts.
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On August 14 2010 04:15 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 04:12 Emon_ wrote:On August 14 2010 04:04 sikyon wrote:
IIRC western countries are democracies with laws regarding free speech.
If you don't like people saying the word rape that's your perogative and I respect that, but frankly everyone has a different opinion on everything (from swear words, racial slurs, and acts of violence). To attempt to impose your own viewpoint on a large community seems arrogant.
Free speech is great for having an argument and making a point, like OP is doing. Think about what you're gonna say for 2 days and make a topic - brilliant. More of this is welcome. But using a term that has such a negative meaning, and defending it with free speech isn't the same thing. It's mean and immature. People are being hurt by the usage of the term, and it sends very negative signals about the community. Though we can't change it everywhere, we can at least make an effort here on TL. Someone somewhere is hurt by just about everything. At some point you have to draw the line and say that no offense was intended and that they need to get over their own issues. As was pointed out earlier, owning someone could be conceivably misconstrued as a mocking reference to slavery.
I think at a certain level a person knows when something he says is going to offend someone else. I understand if the intent isn't to hurt, but to a traumatized person it still makes a difference if it's used or not. And since we can make a choice with our vocabulary, we should try and steer clear of being unnecessarily hurtful towards others.
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Calgary25990 Posts
On August 14 2010 04:25 hacpee wrote:
I can use whatever word I want. The last thing I want is politically correct feminists telling me what to do. So what, your feelings got hurt. Grow up, your feelings are going to get hurt many more times in life. Live with it.
I think the OP has an understanding, somewhat pleading tone. To respond with this aggressive bullshit is stupid.
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On August 14 2010 04:01 KwarK wrote:
He's slaughtering those zealots could be offensive to victims of genocide.
Words have meanings. In gaming to rape does not mean to sexually assault the unit or player in question. If anyone was in any way unclear about that then I can see why they might be shocked until the matter was cleared up. But I cannot understand why a word, which at this point is simply a homonym, should be banned because a tiny minority of people associate it with something other than the intended meaning.
In gaming culture rape is not an offensive word. I don't use it but this is almost as bad as people who claim the word niggardly is racist because it sounds kinda like nigger.
I completely agree with this post... People use other words that are offensive too... I personally see murder being worse than rape.. so why don't people get mad at the use of the word slaughter, or murdered ?
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Bro, what about owned? You never addressed what we should use because people, formerly victims of slavery, might feel. What about people who have been in a war zone, and actually have killed people or been shot at? Why should we continue to simulate MURDER?
This thread is dumb. Your girl friend has been traumatized and clearly has emotional issues. Of COURSE the word RAPE is going to make her freak out a bit. THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE ARE BAD.
You suggested we should be more intellectual or whatever about our word choice, why don't you learn about the other meanings for the word rape?
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On August 14 2010 04:26 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 04:22 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 04:21 travis wrote:On August 14 2010 04:17 choboPEon wrote:
This is nothing like the word niggardly being called racist because thats fucking stupid but associating the word rape with sexual assault is so completely understandable that it boggles the mind that someone would deny it. how is that at all understandable when you're watching a sc2 cast you have to purposely LACK understanding to not get that the word is being used differently Because niggardly means something completely different from nigger but rape means rape and rape has more than one meaning... that's the entire point of what we are talking about
all of you who are saying that the gaming meaning of rape has no connection the sexual assault rape are intentionally deluding yourself so that you don't have to go through the massive inconvenience of altering your behavior slightly
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I'm glad my first language isn't english so these kinds of things can't creep into my vernacular 
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(a) On a larger scale -- it is almost impossible to shift the entire gaming culture out of offensiveness. If it's a PR issue -- (what is the image of TL to the general public), then it should only apply to the people who claim to officially represent TL.
(b) On a prescriptive level -- it is offensive to some that we are trying to restrict their vocabulary because public Bnet games are so anonymous we never know who we can offend.
(c) On a personal and interpersonal level that's where this matters. I think the strength of the OP's admonishment is to remember our friends around us. If my brother is gay and doesn't care if I say "faggot", then fine. But, if I know that he has a real problem with the word (not in a sensitive asshole way, but in a real, personal way), then this post is a reminder that, if I care for his perspective, then I should care for my words.
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On August 14 2010 04:27 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 04:25 hacpee wrote:
I can use whatever word I want. The last thing I want is politically correct feminists telling me what to do. So what, your feelings got hurt. Grow up, your feelings are going to get hurt many more times in life. Live with it. I think the OP has an understanding, somewhat pleading tone. To respond with this aggressive bullshit is stupid.
Actually the OP's pleading tone turned into one of arrogance, I think it's right that people reply in kind. Anyway, gonna log on to bnet and rape some noobs
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prepare to be offended:
+ Show Spoiler +
i don't really care much about shocking, scaring, or offending grown ups with my words. when you grow the fuck up, and are an adult, you should be able to confront things like words without curling up into a fetal position. if words bother you so much then you have a problem that needed to be pointed out to you anyways, and it's something you need to address. callous, maybe. but true.
this is generally my approach. like, in places like forums and when i can just be honest with people. of course there are times for politeness and respect(though generally i can take an approach somewhere inbetween). but when im playing a game, for example, i'd rather just be honest and straightforward - not pandering to other people's flaws.
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On August 14 2010 04:27 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 04:25 hacpee wrote:
I can use whatever word I want. The last thing I want is politically correct feminists telling me what to do. So what, your feelings got hurt. Grow up, your feelings are going to get hurt many more times in life. Live with it. I think the OP has an understanding, somewhat pleading tone. To respond with this aggressive bullshit is stupid.
I am pointing out to people why they shouldn't use a certain word and I am hoping that TL is smart enough to understand why I am right (and yes, I am 100% right.)
OP seems abit full of himself, tbh.
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You don't call a retard, retard....it's bad taste. You call your friends retard when they are acting retarded.
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People need to understand that CONTEXT is what matters, not the word itself.
The word "nigger" isn't offensive. It's the context that makes a word offensive or not offensive. Calling my black friend "mah niggah" isn't offensive to anyone, but people who don't know me may frown a little because I use the word "nigga" and that I am white. But if I were to shout "you fucking nigger piece of shit," people would go absolutely bat-shit crazy because in that context the word "nigger" is offensive.
The word "cock" has two different meanings, and you are not allowed to say the word "cock" on TV or on Radio if you are referring to the male sexual organ. However, when referring to a Rooster, the word "cock" is fine.
Saying that I raped some noob in a videogame isn't offensive, because it's the context that matters.
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On August 14 2010 04:29 LoliKuma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 04:27 Chill wrote:On August 14 2010 04:25 hacpee wrote:
I can use whatever word I want. The last thing I want is politically correct feminists telling me what to do. So what, your feelings got hurt. Grow up, your feelings are going to get hurt many more times in life. Live with it. I think the OP has an understanding, somewhat pleading tone. To respond with this aggressive bullshit is stupid. Actually the OP's pleading tone turned into one of arrogance, I think it's right that people reply in kind. Anyway, gonna log on to bnet and rape some noobs
How can a simple change in language that will make the whole community look more professional be met with such resistance?
I really wish that more people would act like they would irl online, seriously grow up.
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On August 14 2010 04:23 SpicyCrab wrote:
Hawk; perhaps it is worth considering other peoples feelings even when it does not serve to benefit you in any way?
There's a limit to how much I care to walk on eggshells for people, especially ones that I do not know.
Cursing offends people. Cheesing offends newbies. People get offended over stupid shit. Where do you draw the line?? It's not like spamming NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER in a chat to intentionally upset someone.
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EPT
