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On August 14 2010 11:21 CharlieMurphy wrote:
you could say the same thing about the word owned. Anyone who was a slave is offended and reminded of when they were owned. Black people all over the US are turning in their graves.
So many people are saying this. Slavery was abolished hundreds of years ago and there are, I believe, very few people in the developed nations who were slaves in their lifetime.
There are thousands of victims of rape living in my country alone. You cannot compare the use of the words 'owned' and 'raped' for their impact. It makes no sense at all to me.
How many 30 page threads are there arguing the morality of using the word owned? That alone tells you that this is a much more charged issue and is trivialised by people saying 'owned isn't offensive so niether is rape' or 'people are offended by christmas, so should I stop saying that?'. Does Christmas devastate peoples emotional well being for their lifetime? Really?!?!
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On August 14 2010 11:19 RinoZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 11:13 howerpower wrote:
I'm so tired of people getting offended over everything, its childish and immature.
Yeah man, rape victims should just get over it. Sheesh. O_o
To be fair, that is a lot worse than it sounds. In this case it wouldn't be to "get over" the rape event, but rather get over being affected by simply hearing a term related to your traumatic incident, which is more reasonable.
I already stated my position, which is basically "try to avoid it out of politeness, but nothing wrong" , but just saying. Sometimes its too tempting to use the shock and sympathy factor in these debates.
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On August 14 2010 11:33 RinoZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 11:21 CharlieMurphy wrote:
you could say the same thing about the word owned. Anyone who was a slave is offended and reminded of when they were owned. Black people all over the US are turning in their graves. So many people are saying this. Slavery was abolished hundreds of years ago and there are, I believe, very few people in the developed nations who were slaves in their lifetime. There are thousands of victims of rape living in my country alone. You cannot compare the use of the words 'owned' and 'raped' for their impact. It makes no sense at all to me. How many 30 page threads are there arguing the morality of using the word owned? That alone tells you that this is a much more charged issue and is trivialised by people saying 'owned isn't offensive so niether is rape' or 'people are offended by christmas, so should I stop saying that?'. Does Christmas devastate peoples emotional well being for their lifetime? Really?!?!
No, but neither does the word rape. It is the act that cripple people, not the word. You point is mote, imo, but I do agree "owned" is totally different and nowhere near as emotionally laden.
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Here's the thing:
1. It's not that it's hard to use "rape" less. It's that "rape" isn't the only thing I say that offends someone. Every insult known to man is discriminatory by definition. It characterizes certain things as being inferior to others.
2. Now I can spend all my time just speaking rainbows and sunshine, but this, in truth, reduces my ability to communicate. Discriminatory speech is part of language. It is absolutely necessary.
3. Because of 1 and 2, I have a conundrum. What is absolutely necessary is also absolutely offensive. I must be offensive to someone. Accepting this, the choice then, is what language to use in what situation. If I knew it bothered someone I cared about? Sure, I'd tone it down (provided I wasn't trying to bother them) If it didn't? Why would I stop?
4. So far, nobody has informed me I am offending them by using the word rape. This includes females, rape victims, and etc.
What I will not do is pre-screen everything I say, cease to say some things that I wish to say, on the supposition that someone (a random someone) may be offended. If you are offended by something I do, you owe me at least a personal request to cease my offensive behaviour. If an agreement cannot be reached, then both parties have the right to take their conversation elsewhere.
I think this is both the polite and correct way to ensure that both parties interests are represented.
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Thank you for this thread to this day I will always say OWNED instead of RAPE 
damn you OOV from bringing rape up!
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Pretty much what ToxNub said.
Otherwise, we'll be considering words like "retard" and "idiot." Think of the children.. er, the actually retarded people, and the actual idiots! We're using the words, so that must offend them for some reason, although we are in no actual way insulting them or threatening to do anything to them.
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What a fucking shitty OP. Sorry, but that sounds like it's coming from one of those "you may not use foul words or else you will become dumb" idiots.
Yeah, the word rape might be special to some people. So what the flying fuck? So do the words "gay", "owned" (slavery) etc. It's ridiculous. In that context, people couldn't ever swear about anything becaues some people have mental problems with any word.
Flame away people! Nobody cares.
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So does the word fuck offend impotent people?
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On August 14 2010 10:04 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 07:43 StarStruck wrote:On August 14 2010 07:34 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On August 14 2010 07:26 revy wrote:On August 14 2010 07:23 PanN wrote:
The English language is constantly evolving, not always for the best, but it is. A word like "rape" shouldn't be offensive when used in the terms of owning someone etc in a videogame, because thats what that word means in that setting. Multiple other examples but whatever. This. I can understand this argument, but why don't sports casters ever use words like retarded or gay? Are gamers less mature than sports fans? No, but the word was able to slip by because of the low restrictions we've had on online speech. I doubt we can remove words like "gay" used as "stupid" from everyday vernacular, but commentators at least, should not use them. Anyways, I find how this thread has grown kind of sad too, I'd rather some more entertaining thread were growing like this. I liked coming by TL to chill. Guess you missed my posts because I already addressed this. A simple search should suffice. I hate it when people act all arrogant like everything they say is absolute truth and therefore if I don't agree with what you've said, I've missed it. This is what you wanted me to find no? Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 06:18 StarStruck wrote:On August 14 2010 05:59 Phyrion wrote:
The main point I take away from the OP is this:
If we want to see ESports come to the West, we have to adhere to the same standards of language that is on public TV sports. I would love to see Starcraft II Tournaments shown on TV and make into the mainstream just like football or soccer or basketball.
I have never once heard a football commentator say "JESUS CHRIST did you see that pass?" Or a basketball commentator say "That was the longest fucking three pointer I have ever seen!" "GOD he is raping the other team all by himself!"
If we continue to use the words rape, faggot, Jesus Christ to commentate games, we will never move ESports to any major network ever. Having read this thread and seeing that most gamers don't care too much about others feelings and sensitivity to certain words and phrases, ESports will never make it in the West. Here's the problem with that. We're talking about amateur sport. What the caster's do on their own streams is their business. It isn't professional. Get that through your head. Sure, they might take it seriously, but the thing is many of us don't. It's something we do in our leisure time for shits, giggles and entertainment purposes. You are taking things out of context. It's purely situational. Many gamers here don't feel the necessity, correction. Let me rephrase that. Don't want, or need to be taken seriously. This whole crusade is ridiculous. Perhaps you've missed out on the point that commentators whether professional or not try to cater to as large a crowd as possible. As such they should try to be as politically correct as possible unless their stream is aimed at being politically incorrect. And maybe you should get through your head that the post you were addressing is focused on commentators and not what gamers do. Acting like he is talking about gamers is just taking things out of context. Day9 has sponsorships, do you think his sponsors would like hearing him use the word rape in every commentary? Do you think that if commentators ever did make it on TV outside Korea it would be ok for them to use vulgar language? I'm trying to be offensive here because I'm trying to show a point: your style of writing is rather condescending.
I addressed both you schmuck. Who is to say what a commentator can and cannot say in their own stream? Needless to say this changes when your paycheck comes from a network like NBC. Then they have the right to filter you. We're talking about amateurs! AMATEURS. Put it into perspective. The guy's post I was addressing pointed directly at Professional sport. You need a quick reality check. Sean Plott's cast started from the ground up. It's his baby boy and no one else owns it. Wow, some people.
-_-
Me = arrogant? Yeah, that's a good laugh. There's a difference between fact and fiction. Your ideas of ownership and freedom of speech are baffling.
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I'm sure that it's insensitive of me to post this but I disagree with the OP anyways. I thought it was interesting that they were talking about this subject at penny-arcade today too. I get the feeling that they are part of the "you're making too much of this" camp.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/dcVWZ.jpg)
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Meanings of words are always evolving and changing. Gay and rape for example. I'll keep using those words.
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On August 14 2010 11:22 LunarC wrote:The problem with using words like "own" or "beat" as an example for how the word "rape" is regarded in gaming culture is that "own" and "beat" are words with very general meanings while "rape" specifically means sexual intercourse without consent. Yes, words can change intrinsic meanings in different contexts. Two young African Americans calling each other "nigger" is more or less socially acceptable. If I called either one of them a "nigger" I'd probably get beaten to a pulp. However, "nigger" cannot be compared to "rape" because "nigger" possesses an enormous cultural scaffold to back it, while "rape" does not. Truly, the gamers are the minority in this sense. Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 11:21 CharlieMurphy wrote:
you could say the same thing about the word owned. Anyone who was a slave is offended and reminded of when they were owned. Black people all over the US are turning in their graves. "Own" is a word that can be applied to many things. I can "own" a desk lamp. The term CharlieMurphy is looking for is probably "enslaved". But gamers will never say that they "enslaved" some noob. Too many syllables.
The word rape does not originally refer to non-consensual sex. The origin of the word means to seize and was only rarely used sexually. It was frequently used to describe the plundering and destruction of warfare and thus, actually has context when describing starcraft and war games in general.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 14 2010 11:37 ToxNub wrote:
Here's the thing:
1. It's not that it's hard to use "rape" less. It's that "rape" isn't the only thing I say that offends someone. Every insult known to man is discriminatory by definition. It characterizes certain things as being inferior to others.
2. Now I can spend all my time just speaking rainbows and sunshine, but this, in truth, reduces my ability to communicate. Discriminatory speech is part of language. It is absolutely necessary.
3. Because of 1 and 2, I have a conundrum. What is absolutely necessary is also absolutely offensive. I must be offensive to someone. Accepting this, the choice then, is what language to use in what situation. If I knew it bothered someone I cared about? Sure, I'd tone it down (provided I wasn't trying to bother them) If it didn't? Why would I stop?
4. So far, nobody has informed me I am offending them by using the word rape. This includes females, rape victims, and etc.
What I will not do is pre-screen everything I say, cease to say some things that I wish to say, on the supposition that someone (a random someone) may be offended. If you are offended by something I do, you owe me at least a personal request to cease my offensive behaviour. If an agreement cannot be reached, then both parties have the right to take their conversation elsewhere.
I think this is both the polite and correct way to ensure that both parties interests are represented.
1. While most insults may have started as being highly offensive, I would say there are now only a few categories which really fit that bill. Mental handicaps, gay jokes, rape, and ethnic slurs. Possibly some others. Yes it could be argued that retard, idiot and moron all once meant the same thing, but I think most of us know which word would stand out, and which words truly have a different meaning in this day and age.
2. This is kinda silly. No one anywhere, NEEDS to call someone a fag, or to say they raped someone, in order to get a point across clearly. If anything it could obscure the real meaning. I go every day of my life without calling someone a fag, derogatorily calling something Jewish or gay, or casually using the word rape. There is just no reason to do this.
I wonder how many people in this thread arguing for the usage of rape know anyone who's been raped? I'd guess not many, because most of those people stop using the word rape, because they have an idea of what it really means.
I used to use the word retarded all the time. I'd never think twice. Except now I have several friends who work with people who have developmental disabilities, and I'd be absolutely ashamed to say retarded in a derogatory context around them.
Really what we're talking about here, is people making a conscious effort to control their speech, and to speak appropriately. This is a good thing! Realizing that words are hurtful to other people and avoiding saying those words, is a good thing. We can all afford to be a little more considerate to the people around us.
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Rape and such words are foul language. It is intended to offed someone. Foul words have an original meaning and context but they can always be used to just curse at someone in a general way. Asking to stop using the word rape in a gaming context because women might be offended is sexist in my opinion. Women shouldn't be offended, and probably aren't. If a rape victim (there's a better way to describe that btw.) is playing then the context changes and the person that uses the word is a jerk or oblivious.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 14 2010 11:57 buhhy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 11:22 LunarC wrote:The problem with using words like "own" or "beat" as an example for how the word "rape" is regarded in gaming culture is that "own" and "beat" are words with very general meanings while "rape" specifically means sexual intercourse without consent. Yes, words can change intrinsic meanings in different contexts. Two young African Americans calling each other "nigger" is more or less socially acceptable. If I called either one of them a "nigger" I'd probably get beaten to a pulp. However, "nigger" cannot be compared to "rape" because "nigger" possesses an enormous cultural scaffold to back it, while "rape" does not. Truly, the gamers are the minority in this sense. On August 14 2010 11:21 CharlieMurphy wrote:
you could say the same thing about the word owned. Anyone who was a slave is offended and reminded of when they were owned. Black people all over the US are turning in their graves. "Own" is a word that can be applied to many things. I can "own" a desk lamp. The term CharlieMurphy is looking for is probably "enslaved". But gamers will never say that they "enslaved" some noob. Too many syllables. The word rape does not originally refer to non-consensual sex. The origin of the word means to seize and was only rarely used sexually. It was frequently used to describe the plundering and destruction of warfare and thus, actually has context when describing starcraft and war games in general.
While that may be true, you surely agree that rape basically only has one meaning in this day and age.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 14 2010 12:02 Cloud wrote:
Rape and such words are foul language. It is intended to offed someone. Foul words have an original meaning and context but they can always be used to just curse at someone in a general way. Asking to stop using the word rape in a gaming context because women might be offended is sexist in my opinion. Women shouldn't be offended, and probably aren't. If a rape victim (there's a better way to describe that btw.) is playing then the context changes and the person that uses the word is a jerk or oblivious.
Would you also advocate racial slurs as well? I mean in a general way, not targeted at someone who actually is black, or jewish or whatever. Are these also part of your standard foul word vocab?
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I wonder how many more circles we can go in.
Someone have anything new to add because I really cannot think of anything that hasn't been said one way or another.
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The same word has different meanings. It's as simple as that.
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I only hear kids on xboxlive say rape and my immature friend.
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I have a traumatic experience I'd like to share.
I was once raped at a dark alley in a pile of rubble. It all happened because I was too greedy. I shouldn't have gone there at that time, and I knew it. He pressured me at the start, but I wasn't sure what his intentions were. Soon he came full force into my backdoor.
I'll link the replay to this pvz on scrapyard when I find it.
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EPT
