EPTRock, Paper, Scissors; Zerg, Protoss, Terran
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Holywow
Canada34 Posts
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
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Shifft
Canada1085 Posts
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Holywow
Canada34 Posts
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
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storm44
1293 Posts
On August 10 2010 05:23 Sqq wrote: Let me explain it to you like this. Terran is Fritzl, and Protoss and Zerg are locked in the basement waiting to get raep. Wow I just looked that story up and that is just terrible.. | ||
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caldo149
United States469 Posts
This type of thing, coupled with your own personal skill and racial understanding could be why some matchups seem easier than others to you. BTW, If you didn't know, a lot of people are under the impression that Terran is overpowered, that it takes less skill than the other races to be good with, etc. and so right now it seems like T>Z, T>P, and Z>P i believe. | ||
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Holywow
Canada34 Posts
On August 10 2010 05:44 caldo149 wrote: I think you have this experience because you play random... people probably play a safer against random to avoid all ins or strategic plays and so, for example, in ZvT when T plays safer it lets Z get a stronger economy and then roll over T later. T>P, and Z>P i believe. Interesting. I'll try just playing as individual races instead of random and see if I still get the same results. Maybe terran are really powerful because they have better early builds against specific races and by not being able to know right away it robs them of what makes them overpowered? | ||
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Zacsafus
England255 Posts
On August 10 2010 05:39 storm44 wrote: Wow I just looked that story up and that is just terrible.. U didnt know about fritzl? suppose its more of a european event :S OT: I dont think that there will ever be a rigid rock, paper, scissors in starcraft yes imagine that some people will feel much more comfortable as one race against another, however if i remember correctly the win/loss ratio of all the races was around 50% give or take a % or so toward the end of the beta. Dont quote me on that but i remember seeing it somewhere.... maybe that google spread sheet thang? | ||
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fishball232
United States90 Posts
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Reason.SC2
Canada1047 Posts
Your play style/builds are just probably better geared to ZvT and TvP for whatever reason. I haven't seen the matchup stats recently but overall win ratios for all 3 races were within 0.6% of each other last time I checked | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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captive411
United States80 Posts
On August 10 2010 05:23 Sqq wrote: Let me explain it to you like this. Terran is Fritzl, and Protoss and Zerg are locked in the basement waiting to get raep. OMG | ||
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Melt
Switzerland281 Posts
On August 10 2010 05:44 caldo149 wrote: BTW, If you didn't know, a lot of people are under the impression that Terran is overpowered, that it takes less skill than the other races to be good with, etc. and so right now it seems like T>Z, T>P, and Z>P i believe. i think you misunderstood something. Terran isn't easy nor does it need no skill to play. Protoss is "the easy race". Statistics also proof that (Protoss is dominating lower divisions). But terran is just plain overpowered if you play them properly (They dominate diamond). Zerg is quite hard and a slight bit underpowered. Most of the imbalance cries of Zerg players come because they're so hard to play (it's not thats impossible to win against terran or protoss, it's just extremely hard and you aren't allowed to do many mistakes). My personal feel is that; PvZ is the most balanced matchup (if you learn to defend 4 or 5 Gate allins as Zerg). TvZ is quite heavily Terran favoured. PvT is a little Terran favoured if the Terran knows to abuse certain timing windows. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On August 10 2010 06:09 Melt wrote: i think you misunderstood something. Terran isn't easy nor does it need no skill to play. Protoss is "the easy race". Statistics also proof that (Protoss is dominating lower divisions). But terran is just plain overpowered if you play them properly (They dominate diamond). Zerg is quite hard and a slight bit underpowered. Most of the imbalance cries of Zerg players come because they're so hard to play (it's not thats impossible to win against terran or protoss, it's just extremely hard and you aren't allowed to do many mistakes). My personal feel is that; PvZ is the most balanced matchup (if you learn to defend 4 or 5 Gate allins as Zerg). TvZ is quite heavily Terran favoured. PvT is a little Terran favoured if the Terran knows to abuse certain timing windows. i think you are in the wrong game forum, protoss was the easy race in broodwar. they are the most micro intensive in sc2, not easy at all. | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
It is clearly the most balanced matchup right now by far (far, far, far..) when it comes to the higher ranked people (which is what the game should be balanced around). As for Z, they are just very very very macro and micro intensive, high risk --- high reward if executed properly though. (IMO) | ||
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equiNOX-LWF
44 Posts
Copper - Silver is dominated by Protoss. Gold - Diamond is dominated by Terran. Professional tournaments are dominated by zerg. That was the jist of the chart. Basically when all three races are played at full potential (professional tournies) terran lost quit often. At lower levels Protoss was dominant due to their relatively simple gameplay, and in the middle ground Terran pulled ahead because theyre most effective with certain amounts of skill. However it appeared that among higher level players the races were near-perfectly balanced but a high percent of tournaments were won by zerg players. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On August 10 2010 06:28 equiNOX-LWF wrote: I forget exactly where i saw it but the statistic was something like: Copper - Silver is dominated by Protoss. Gold - Diamond is dominated by Terran. Professional tournaments are dominated by zerg. That was the jist of the chart. Basically when all three races are played at full potential (professional tournies) terran lost quit often. At lower levels Protoss was dominant due to their relatively simple gameplay, and in the middle ground Terran pulled ahead because theyre most effective with certain amounts of skill. However it appeared that among higher level players the races were near-perfectly balanced but a high percent of tournaments were won by zerg players. Just because Idra won a tournament doesnt mean that "Professional tournaments are dominated by Zerg". Also, if you notice, aside from Idra, there hasnt been very much "Zerg domination" at tournaments at all. Nearly 40% of the top 100 players globally are Terran. Source - http://sc2ranks.com/stats/all/1/100 Last time there was top 10 stats available (end of phase 2), 6/10 players were Terran. | ||
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whateversclever
United States197 Posts
According to your info at least. | ||
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Panoptic
United Kingdom515 Posts
On August 10 2010 05:23 Sqq wrote: Let me explain it to you like this. Terran is Fritzl, and Protoss and Zerg are locked in the basement waiting to get raep. Reductio ad Fritzelum? for reals? | ||
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anon195
15 Posts
On August 10 2010 05:23 Sqq wrote: Let me explain it to you like this. Terran is Fritzl, and Protoss and Zerg are locked in the basement waiting to get raep. do you by any chance browse any anonymous imageboards? | ||
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Chicodog
Denmark154 Posts
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
Personally I'm finding TvZ the easiest and TvP the hardest, ZvP the easiest and ZvT the hardest (matchup in the entire game) And for protoss i find PvZ easier (I love you collosi) than PvT | ||
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Prophecy3
Canada223 Posts
First off, i'm Terran, have been all broodwar, and all SC2. There are a couple things within terran that make it so much stronger then the other races right now. EMP - OP! Seriously. It is. instacast?... It should have stayed a dodgable shot, problem solved. Tech tree - Terran has the most efficient tech tree imo, since all tech can be built of 3.5 structures (.5 for techlab) which are available quite quickly, and fairly cheap. Range - ALL units have significant range, making certain areas "killzones". Also allows you to not worry about silly melee units, and having to get close into danger and commit units. Versatility and Army Coherence - Terran units support each other much more effectively then the other races, and mid to late game a properly built Terran deathball is pretty fearsome. Terran was once compared to a swiss army knife, in that it's got a tool for each job, and it comes together in such a perfect pacakge.. That being said.. Because the other races haven't learned to have cohesive and interdependent armies, Terran seems to be steam rolling the other races. In my personal experience TvZ is by far the easiest, basically every unit I have is good against most of zerg in some way. There are so many viable builds and exploitable timing windows I smile everytime I get a TvZ, because you can force zerg to play your game with your unit composition. Just having tanks on the field forces zerg to try and get air, because if it doesn't it will slowly be creeped and dominated. TvP however is to me the most fun because it's the most challenging, I feel like protoss has much more tools and options than zerg to threaten Terran play. However, I still feel that when all tools are out on the board and both races are felt out more, Terran will still have many advantages. PvZ is I think the most balanced matchup, the games are face paced and interesting with many many avenues for both races to go early on. Thus I feel there is a certain leaning of Racial power towards Terran. However once the other 2 races are felt out more that will change. T > Z T > P P v Z though.. Couldn't call that. No idea. =) | ||
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Zuxo
Sweden395 Posts
T>P P-Z Even matchup i would say Pretty much agree with everything that Prophecy3 wrote, especially about how the EMP slaughters Prottos with its instacast. Edit: Sqq, wow that was brutal | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
Terran not doing a very good job of being overpowered it seems. | ||
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Monkey5020
New Zealand24 Posts
TvZ yea thats in terrans favour right now. Again they are just a one unit monkey race massing speedlings but they arent anywhere near as op as stalkers. Agree Z v P is the most balance match up right now. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 10 2010 05:17 Shifft wrote: You're the only one that finds ZvT easy bro. ZvT is super easy and ZvP is my hardest matchup for this zerg player. | ||
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virgozero
Canada412 Posts
On August 10 2010 05:17 Shifft wrote: You're the only one that finds ZvT easy bro. tons of people find ZvT easy , in fact my friend as T finds Z hard. People that do find the other way will complain, peole that don't wont. So of course you dont see them on forums. They are going to make a thread "oh haii i like playing againts T ^_^ tyvm" cocky much? | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
It's probably because Z requires a different mindset to play for me. | ||
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Taniard
United States114 Posts
On August 10 2010 05:17 Shifft wrote: You're the only one that finds ZvT easy bro. Yeah pretty much, even IdrA has been complaining about ZvT. Watch one of his series with Silver. Lol i would give a lot to find ZvT easy. | ||
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Zuxo
Sweden395 Posts
On August 10 2010 08:52 Monkey5020 wrote: Plus the stalker is far too good both outranging and having higher movespeed than anything terran can build and with the sick out of combat regen protoss can pull far ahead before medivacs arrive. I believe that maraduers have the same range as the stalker and "concussive shell"? Just pawns stalkers. Edit: | ||
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InSpiReZerG
United States159 Posts
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Torture
Canada221 Posts
As a random player I've noticed a personal rock, paper, scissors trend were each of my matchups are strong against another. Like as a zerg I find terran easy and protoss hard and as a terran I find protoss easy and zerg hard. I've read a lot about a slight ballance issue in brood war where zerg>protoss>terran>zerg. Could SC2 have the same issue but in the opposite direction or is this just my personal abilities? I'm a Diamond Protoss player and I find Terran to be one of my easiest matchups. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that Paper beats Scissors. I believe that maraduers have the same range as the stalker and "concussive shell"? Just pawns stalkers. Chargelots owwwwwn Marauders. ForceField is your friend when you're waiting for charge. The only thing that Husky's video showed is that when 100 supply of Marauders are shooting the entire time they're better than Zealots because Zealots can't get through to attack. I'd like to see the result of that on a smaller scale where the Zealots could all attack. | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
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Torture
Canada221 Posts
On August 10 2010 08:58 Taniard wrote: Yeah pretty much, even IdrA has been complaining about ZvT. Watch one of his series with Silver. Lol i would give a lot to find ZvT easy. Even IdrA? IdrA is perhaps the most vocal that Terran is overpowered. IdrA HAAAAAAAAAAATES Terran. Probably more than TLO hates Drones - "I don't play Terran because I have self respect" IdrA is the focal point for most of the zerg complaints. Lower level Zerg players see IdrA complaining and remember that when they lose to a Terran player (perhaps legitimately, perhaps because of balance issues) so then they come to the forums and whine about it. I don't play Zerg or Terran, so maybe he is right, I'm just saying that IdrA complaining basically incites more Zerg complaining It would be the same way if TLO said that Void Rays were imbalanced, or if WhiteRa (DuckLoad!) said ghosts were overpowered. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On August 10 2010 10:07 Torture wrote: Even IdrA? IdrA is perhaps the most vocal that Terran is overpowered. IdrA HAAAAAAAAAAATES Terran. Probably more than TLO hates Drones - "I don't play Terran because I have self respect" IdrA is the focal point for most of the zerg complaints. Lower level Zerg players see IdrA complaining and remember that when they lose to a Terran player (perhaps legitimately, perhaps because of balance issues) so then they come to the forums and whine about it. I don't play Zerg or Terran, so maybe he is right, I'm just saying that IdrA complaining basically incites more Zerg complaining It would be the same way if TLO said that Void Rays were imbalanced, or if WhiteRa (DuckLoad!) said ghosts were overpowered. Did you notice that even TLO stopped playing Zerg in tournaments in favor of Terran? Even though he has talked about his enjoyment of Zerg in recent interviews? TLO is one of the most knowledgeable, creative, and respected players out there. That should say something about the states of the races at the very top levels. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On August 10 2010 08:49 Yaotzin wrote: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/all/1/all Terran not doing a very good job of being overpowered it seems. i counted the Terrans in top 100 EU and NA, i dont remember the exact number but it was close to 50 in Europe yesterday, and it was 46 in NA just recently. So if we exclude the random players it's safe to state that at the highest level more than 50% are terrans atm, at least on those 2 servers. Unfortunately rts-sacntuary's servers are busy atm so i canot provide perfect numbers but that's abut it. | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On August 10 2010 18:27 Spyridon wrote: Did you notice that even TLO stopped playing Zerg in tournaments in favor of Terran? Even though he has talked about his enjoyment of Zerg in recent interviews? TLO is one of the most knowledgeable, creative, and respected players out there. That should say something about the states of the races at the very top levels. He occasionally plays zerg, mostly terran, but never protoss. That must mean that Protoss is the weakest race, right? IdrA, one of the best sc2 players, plays Zerg, so that must mean that Zerg is the best, right? No, because you cant just use 1 example out of a million to prove a point : / | ||
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
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