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I play as Zerg & just played a platinum level match and got DOMINATED by siege tanks.
I watched the replay I had 128 APM, he had 43 APM.
I was on 4 bases (1 gold), he was on 3.
I had 166/200 supply, he had 154/200 supply.
My army was speedling, roach, and hydras with +1 attack, +2 range, +1 armor.
His army was siege tanks, marines, and a couple vikings with no upgrades.
He sieged outside of my natural on Kulas Ravine (I had 3 spine crawlers right there also).
Tanks range is soooo crazy he killed my entire army while I managed to kill 4 of his marines!!! I couldn't get into attack range because the tanks range is just so large. And yes I pressed attack, not just move! I probably shouldn't have run in to attack, and instead just watch him take out my natural?
The only things I think I could have done differently is use overlords and drop my units onto his tanks (but I didn't have the upgrade) or use neural parasite with infestors (didn't have upgrade either). I also could have gone ultras but I didn't even have a hive.
But would those have made much of a difference?
Can someone please tell me what to do next time because I've lost like every ZvT match? Because it seems very hard for upgraded tier 1-2 units to kill tier 1-2 Terran units.
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I use speedlings early game, then in the mid game I mostly go mutalist and late game either mutaling or mass roach, with a few exceptions ofcourse.
You should always try to avoid being in the tank's range if they are sieged, try to attack him before he sieges and you can pretty much wipe the flood with him.
Watch KOTB QXC vs Idra and you'll get the idea.
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WTB better unit positioning/air units (mutas) sniping the tanks.
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But he had marines and vikings.
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If you can't end it before he gets too many tanks, you have to get brood lords or ultralisks. it is the only way. That or, if he never gets detection, you can stop him with a good roach burrow. The roach burrow will only fool him once if at all, though.
The idea of ZvT is to expand so much and spawn so much larva that you can build an entirely new army instantaneously as soon as the siege tanks rip it to shreds. that way you can pick off one siege tank per army and eventually whittle him down.
I know, it's stupid that a terran can just a-move across the map with siege tanks off of one or two bases,and to beat it the zerg has to have the entire map, tons of larva, and hive tech. but that's the way terran is in starcraft 2.
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On August 03 2010 10:53 leeznon wrote:
But he had marines and vikings.
and a couple vikings
a couple wont do any good versus 15-20 or even more mutas lol
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Don't go head on with siege tanks. Bottom line, you need to wait until they un-siege and then attack head on or do a counter-attack in their main. If you let them siege you are out of luck in most cases especially if they have 200 psi. Try hurassing more with air to keep them from building ONLY siege tanks, that way they need to stay in their base even longer and build marines or thors to protect their ass. Also if they build Thors off of two base then they have less gas for their tanks and such. Just practice and watch pro replays, especially ones from Artosis' replay pack were he does baneling drops with overloards on to tank lines.
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I love the use of infestors vs. mech and especially seige. Get burrow with infestors (energy up is helpful too) and whenever they start to leapfrog with their tanks, as soon as they seige send a few ITs right next to the tanks. Either the splash will kill them from other tanks, or the ITs will kill them. At the very least, it forces them to use a scan.
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You don't. Terran makes them and you lose. In all seriosness though i use roach/ling and try to get a flank on them but even then its really hard. Maybe i drone to much but IDK.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 03 2010 10:54 tfmdjeff wrote:
I know, it's stupid that a terran can just a-move across the map with siege tanks off of one or two bases,and to beat it the zerg has to have the entire map, tons of larva, and hive tech. but that's the way terran is in starcraft 2.
A 1 base advantage was never enough to cut it vs mech, not even in SC1.
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On August 03 2010 10:58 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 10:54 tfmdjeff wrote:
I know, it's stupid that a terran can just a-move across the map with siege tanks off of one or two bases,and to beat it the zerg has to have the entire map, tons of larva, and hive tech. but that's the way terran is in starcraft 2. A 1 base advantage was never enough to cut it vs mech, not even in SC1.
Tell me when I said one base.
I said the entire map. That generally means about 5 or 6, at least 4 actively mining.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 03 2010 11:01 tfmdjeff wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 10:58 TheYango wrote:On August 03 2010 10:54 tfmdjeff wrote:
I know, it's stupid that a terran can just a-move across the map with siege tanks off of one or two bases,and to beat it the zerg has to have the entire map, tons of larva, and hive tech. but that's the way terran is in starcraft 2. A 1 base advantage was never enough to cut it vs mech, not even in SC1. Tell me when I said one base. I said the entire map. That generally means about 5 or 6, at least 4 actively mining.
Probably should have quoted the OP instead, but yeah, I do agree with that. My point was that needing a fuckton of bases to beat mech TvZ was never something unique to SC2.
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we rollup in a fetal position when the tanks come rolling out...and pray for a disconnection or that he leaves the game.
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On August 03 2010 10:58 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 10:54 tfmdjeff wrote:
I know, it's stupid that a terran can just a-move across the map with siege tanks off of one or two bases,and to beat it the zerg has to have the entire map, tons of larva, and hive tech. but that's the way terran is in starcraft 2. A 1 base advantage was never enough to cut it vs mech, not even in SC1.
He said he also had gold which was not a factor in sc1. sc1 and sc2 cannot be compared in that same sense because tanks were different in sc1 and there are no goliaths. also consider the pathing, ai, group an entire army in one (or very few hotkeys as compared to sc1), etc. probably more preferred that you move onto tier 3 tech too. a lot of zergs don't seem to like to go to tier 3 tech. well gosu zergs use the entire arsenal but i mean a majority of struggling zergs
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Some problems here:
"I had 166/200 supply, he had 154/200 supply."
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"My army was speedling, roach, and hydras with +1 attack, +2 range, +1 armor.
His army was siege tanks, marines, and a couple vikings with no upgrades."
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"I was on 4 bases (1 gold), he was on 3."
Considering the army mixes you probably had quite a lot less money invested in your army than him, especially with 4 bases to his 3, which likely meant you had more supply invested in drones as well, since terran usually has less workers compensating with MULEs.
So you started right off at an army disadvantage, next there is this:
"He sieged outside of my natural on Kulas Ravine (I had 3 spine crawlers right there also). "
Don't ever let a Terran walk right up to you and siege before you engage him, thats half the game lost right there, you need to scout him coming (overlord, ling, etc) and get your army ready to engage BEFORE he gets to your natural and sieges, once his tanks are sieged up and in position you need to wait for him to unsiege, which might be too late if he is already positioned close enough to your base!
And finally, not really too much of an issue but still, you say:
"And yes I pressed attack, not just move!"
But actually moving up to his army is the best thing to do with the kind of army you had, especially at big supplies, you probably had only half or less of your army attacking at any given time while he had all the tanks and infantry destroying you from afar, taking no friendly siege damage even..the closer you can get to him the better, especially with roaches you should always move up to his army before shooting or you will have half your roaches running around doing nothing most of the time!
Hope this helps 
PS: Oh yeah, burrowed roaches destroy any terran ground if there is no detection around, and are very easy to use, plus not many terrans actively use ravens against Zerg so you can probably have quite a bit of success with those, just remember to scout him coming so you can get yourself burrowed and positioned in time and just unburrow on top of him before he sieges = massacre!
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I use infestors and roaches to beat mech
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-134622.jpg)
Here is what happens when they dont bring a raven when they move out
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from my personal experience muta bane ling is way superior to roach hydra.
Depending on the amount of anti air in his army more muta or more banelings.
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On August 03 2010 10:54 tfmdjeff wrote:
If you can't end it before he gets too many tanks, you have to get brood lords or ultralisks. it is the only way. That or, if he never gets detection, you can stop him with a good roach burrow. The roach burrow will only fool him once if at all, though.
The idea of ZvT is to expand so much and spawn so much larva that you can build an entirely new army instantaneously as soon as the siege tanks rip it to shreds. that way you can pick off one siege tank per army and eventually whittle him down.
I know, it's stupid that a terran can just a-move across the map with siege tanks off of one or two bases,and to beat it the zerg has to have the entire map, tons of larva, and hive tech. but that's the way terran is in starcraft 2.
+10000 on that last part. just the way it is right now ^^
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Your unit composition didn't seem to be optimal, that is true.
Another interesting & effective tactic would be Baneling drops onto the tanks. Requires both overlord upgrades but these two are anyway always a good thing to have if you are going to late game. Also your best bet is to strike when the terran army in a bad position/moving/unable to defend his base/whatever. You have to abuse the limited mobility of siege tanks. Plus remember that you can re-build a zerg army in no time. Just don't let people convince you that Terran is OP vs. Zerg because this is not the case. That myth has been disproved many times.
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On August 03 2010 11:06 Woah wrote:
Don't ever let a Terran walk right up to you and siege before you engage him, thats half the game lost right there, you need to scout him coming (overlord, ling, etc) and get your army ready to engage BEFORE he gets to your natural and sieges, once his tanks are sieged up and in position you need to wait for him to unsiege, which might be too late if he is already positioned close enough to your base!
Yeah my army was out of position because I was destroying rocks to his base when he sieged up outside of mine. That's why he had time to siege up.
Forgot to mention that.
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EPT
