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Very entertaining. BUT!
I lived in China and just came back. There are many people who want democracy. There are many examples of how democracy works in China. This is clearly a government sponsored video. Of course they are going to say democracy doesn't work. No American government film is going to say communism works.
Oh and by the way, this video is fake. The kids were fed lines by the filmers and many of the scenes were staged. (You are going to tell me that they happened to have been filming the little girl at dance class while the "evil" canidate was spying on her through the window? Sure...)
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Lets me sum this documentary for those who do not want to waste 50 minutes of their lives like I did.
Summary
+ Show Spoiler +
They run a school election for monitors.
Three children are appointed as candidates, Xu Xiaofei, Cheng Cheng, and Luo Lei.
Xu Xiaofei is an introvert girl, she looks hardworking and talented in some arts but do not pose as a leader. She would make a charismatic leader, at best.
Cheng Cheng is confident and smart kid. He has the street smarts, quick wit and several tricks up his sleeve. He looks like some sort of leader by merit.
Luo Lei is a bit like Cheng Cheng, except maybe a bit more of a rebel or a bully. He lacks a lot of the qualities of his adversaries, but has some confidence. He wins the election by purchasing his electorate with gifts.
This happens not only in China but pretty much everywhere else in the world. Specially in developing countries where the majority of the candidates live around the poverty line. It is very easy to enchant the simple minded people. If the subject is their own benefits, their minds work quite similar to the those of school children, easily bribed and fooled. I guess this is why popular governments seem more likely to arise in low income countries.
Now, to answer the OP question. If I was in my early childhood days, I would have probably voted for Luo Lei. As an adult however, I think Cheng Cheng would make the best monitor, even though he has a lot of traits I disapprove. Most likely, I would have voted blank.
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i watched through the video and thought it was pretty interesting. i don't see why it supports the thread title though? can someone explain it to me
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On July 15 2010 11:42 Malgrif wrote:
Side note: fuk chinese idiosyncrasies sure are different than in western world, they can go to restaurants shirtless WTF!
Its standard because its so damn hot and nobody has air conditioning.
I don't think China will ever become a democracy because their culture will never accept individuality over the collectivism of the state. I don't see a reason why they would want to become a democracy anyway.
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If china were to become a democracy right now, th only other party capable of gaining power is an ultranationalist one.
Nobody want's that.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On July 15 2010 11:08 Romantic wrote:
It would be interesting to see a world where the Kuomintang won the Chinese Civil War and was at least to some degree democratic.
China would be very similar to India if this happened. Both China and India started out with a huge uneducated population in the 1950's. They had no heavy industry, all of their economic output consists of agriculture. The only difference is that one country followed liberalism principles and the other, communist principles.
By the 1980's, China had a 10% child malnutrition rate while India have a 50% malnutrition rate. China was also much better than India in literacy, poverty, and average life expectancy. The reason for such a big disparity is because China has redistributed land to the peasants. It has been shown that a dictatorship is more effective than a democracy in economic reforms. The initial part of economic reforms are usually tough, things get worse before they get better. Dictators do not have to worry about elections when planning economic reform. It seems like the opposite of what you learned at school, but it's true. Look at South Korea in the 1960's, they were run under a centrally planned economy.
Even though the Chinese people don't have a democracy right now, I believe that they will get one someday. Currently, the Chinese are only concerned about getting wealthy. As the Chinese people get more educated and wealthy, they will demand political reform.
About the Video, It's amazing how much education these kids get. Seems like the one child policy helped force parents to spend all their energy on raising their only child. I feel sorry for the kids though, they have two parents watching their every step making sure that they study all the time.
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On July 15 2010 11:53 T.O.P. wrote:
About the Video, It's amazing how much education these kids get. Seems like the one child policy helped force parents to spend all their energy on raising their only child. I feel sorry for the kids though, they have two parents watching their every step making sure that they study all the time.
Did the policy give them energy?
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On July 15 2010 11:49 ShadeR wrote:
th only other party capable of gaining power is an ultranationalist one. I read that as ultralisktionlist, I was like "that can't be right" and sure enough it wasn't LOL. i play too much starcraft
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There is a big scandal in France atm because some millionaires gave a lot of money illegally to sponsor Sarkozy's electoral campaign.
Chinese goverment is clearly not perfect, but not as evil as medias are trying to make it look. You need some control over a 1.4 billion population. There is a very important need for continuity in their policy, and it can't be done if you change the Parliament every 4 years and the President every 4 or 5 years.
On a side note, this documentary is garbage. Sorry OP.
@The Storyteller : I worked for Temasek holdings and yeah there is a lot of corruption in Singapore (fyi Temasek is a huge investment company, and the CEO who as been elected as the 3rd most powerful women in the world is Prime Minister's wife lololol)
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I don't want democracy in the united states! democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding whats for dinner. Democracy is not what has made america the way it is, america established a constitutional republic with a strict set of guidelines and boundries in order to avoid those wolves from deciding the law. For example, All humans have a right to free speech. The founding fathers saw this as a fundamental human right, not a right established by the government. In a good republic, local governments will have certain rights to govern lives such as taxes to make parks, law enforcement, etc. However, environments in different geographical area are too different to govern as a single entity. Different areas have different concerns. In oakland, more money should be spent on policing, whereas maybe in salt late, more money should be spent on city infrastructure. One thing should be constant though and that is human rights should be equal for all humans regardless of any condition. Finally, government should never be involved in things that it has no right interferring in. Anything not considered an externality should be avoided. Government should not legislate morality or economics. Politicians should meet once every six months at most, not given any pay and there should be very strict laws against politicians engaging in business. As mel gibson put democracy. "Should i trade 1 tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants 1 mile away?" The answer for government is to remove the ability for individuals to infringe upon other individuals liberties. This includes denying laws which infringe upon others liberties.
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As far as predicting whether or not china will become a democracy, I think they will become psuedo-facist in the next 50 years. But indeed, they are becoming more free every day. Whereas countries like france and great britain are becoming more facist or socialist every day. I imagine the day when the freedom index for china surpasses france and most european countries most likely in the next 50-100 years.
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On July 15 2010 12:01 endy wrote:
There is a big scandal in France atm because some millionaires gave a lot of money illegally to sponsor Sarkozy's electoral campaign.
Chinese goverment is clearly not perfect, but not as evil as medias are trying to make it look. You need some control over a 1.4 billion population. There is a very important need for continuity in their policy, and it can't be done if you change the Parliament every 4 years and the President every 4 or 5 years.
On a side note, this documentary is garbage. Sorry OP.
@The Storyteller : I worked for Temasek holdings and yeah there is a lot of corruption in Singapore (fyi Temasek is a huge investment company, and the CEO who as been elected as the 3rd most powerful women in the world is Prime Minister's wife lololol)
I had the same thought about the documentary initially.
However, I realized later on it is quite interesting, but not as a criticism to China. It provides a good perspective about elections in general.
Narrowing these occurrences to China alone would be too much of a blunder.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On July 15 2010 11:58 Yurebis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2010 11:53 T.O.P. wrote:
About the Video, It's amazing how much education these kids get. Seems like the one child policy helped force parents to spend all their energy on raising their only child. I feel sorry for the kids though, they have two parents watching their every step making sure that they study all the time. Did the policy give them energy?
The policy made parents love their only kid even more. Because they know they will only have one kid in their life. That's why they force their kids to study, play the flute, and run for class monitor. They have high expectations of their kid and they want their kid to live a better life than they lived.
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United States22883 Posts
On July 15 2010 12:04 darmousseh wrote:
I don't want democracy in the united states! democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding whats for dinner. Democracy is not what has made america the way it is, america established a constitutional republic with a strict set of guidelines and boundries in order to avoid those wolves from deciding the law. For example, All humans have a right to free speech (except black people and women). The founding fathers saw this as a fundamental human right, not a right established by the government. In a good republic, local governments will have certain rights to govern lives such as taxes to make parks, law enforcement, etc. However, environments in different geographical area are too different to govern as a single entity. Different areas have different concerns. In oakland, more money should be spent on policing, whereas maybe in salt late, more money should be spent on city infrastructure. One thing should be constant though and that is human rights should be equal for all humans regardless of any condition. Finally, government should never be involved in things that it has no right interferring in. Anything not considered an externality should be avoided. Government should not legislate morality or economics. Politicians should meet once every six months at most, not given any pay and there should be very strict laws against politicians engaging in business. As mel gibson put democracy. "Should i trade 1 tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants 1 mile away?" The answer for government is to remove the ability for individuals to infringe upon other individuals liberties. This includes denying laws which infringe upon others liberties.
Let's not get into an absurd originalist debate on American democracy in a thread about Chinese democracy.
As you said, different areas and cultures require variations on the democratic model. Thinking that an American ultra ultra ultra libertarian model can be supplanted onto China is just... well it's a waste of thought. :|
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there have certainly been some experiments in China about democracy that have done well. The results are fairly certainly to go in both directions.
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Philosopher King > Representative Republic > Chinese Communism > Pure Democracy
A little opinionated, but in a representative republic, at least the leaders are held directly accountable for their actions.
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China is not a Communist country, so don't claim that it is.
Just throwing that out there, not directed at anyone.
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It would be interesting to see a world where the Kuomintang won the Chinese Civil War and was at least to some degree democratic.
Their would be no assurances that the Nationalists would become democratic had they not lost the war. The Nationalists were (almost) just as cruel and inhumane during the war as communists
Also
Go China! :p.
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United States22883 Posts
On July 15 2010 12:09 Ichabod wrote:
Philosopher King > Representative Republic > Chinese Communism > Pure Democracy
A little opinionated, but in a representative republic, at least the leaders are held directly accountable for their actions.
Philosopher Kings? You mean like Mao, Stalin, Khomenei, etc.? Because in their minds, they were.
I'm not sure that The Republic is really applicable to anything anymore.
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On July 15 2010 12:08 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2010 12:04 darmousseh wrote:
I don't want democracy in the united states! democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding whats for dinner. Democracy is not what has made america the way it is, america established a constitutional republic with a strict set of guidelines and boundries in order to avoid those wolves from deciding the law. For example, All humans have a right to free speech (except black people and women). The founding fathers saw this as a fundamental human right, not a right established by the government. In a good republic, local governments will have certain rights to govern lives such as taxes to make parks, law enforcement, etc. However, environments in different geographical area are too different to govern as a single entity. Different areas have different concerns. In oakland, more money should be spent on policing, whereas maybe in salt late, more money should be spent on city infrastructure. One thing should be constant though and that is human rights should be equal for all humans regardless of any condition. Finally, government should never be involved in things that it has no right interferring in. Anything not considered an externality should be avoided. Government should not legislate morality or economics. Politicians should meet once every six months at most, not given any pay and there should be very strict laws against politicians engaging in business. As mel gibson put democracy. "Should i trade 1 tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants 1 mile away?" The answer for government is to remove the ability for individuals to infringe upon other individuals liberties. This includes denying laws which infringe upon others liberties. Let's not get into an absurd originalist debate on American democracy in a thread about Chinese democracy. As you said, different areas and cultures require variations on the democratic model. Thinking that an American ultra ultra ultra libertarian model can be supplanted onto China is just... well it's a waste of thought. :|
Yes, but even within china thoughts and environments are different. Collectivism on a national scale cannot survive forever. Even china knows this and thats why there are many rich businessman in china now. The seeds of individualism are being spread in china. Chinese culture is highly dependant on collectivism, however, that collectivism has been the direct cause for poverty in many parts of china. For china to really become a major economic competitor it will eventually be forced into individualism. The powers that are in china will always try to retain their power, but it won't last forever. Individualism vs collectivism is not a western thing, it is a human thing.
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EPT
