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On July 08 2010 04:01 Pandonetho wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I can't wait to see how this all turns out.
I just find it absolutely hilarious that all of TL a couple of days ago was jumping into the "TL got me a job!" thread and saying how absolutely awesome it is, TL being known as one of the biggest SC gaming and competitive gaming site on the internet.
Now everyone is scared shitless that an employer is going to search them up and associate their name with a game.
Yeah, I really needed the laugh.
Stop trolling.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 08 2010 03:59 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:57 Myles wrote:On July 08 2010 03:54 Klockan3 wrote:On July 08 2010 03:33 Orome wrote:On July 08 2010 03:09 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 03:06 TheYango wrote:On July 08 2010 02:58 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 02:56 Orome wrote:On July 08 2010 02:49 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 02:47 Archerofaiur wrote:
[quote]
Do you see how TL manages to do it without, you know, compromising privacy and security? That ignores the larger point I was making, namely that there's been groups and organizations in the real world, time out of mind, whose members have always been able to know the real names of other members, as thats how they communicate. Groups like this still exist, so it's not a huge jump to see that having strangers learn your real name can't be as apocalyptic as a lot of the posting on here would suggest. Except in real life, what you say isn't recorded and displayed for all eternity for anyone in the whole world to read. But what exactly is so wrong with accountability? "Accountability" is not that straightforward when involved with something so easily misinterpreted as written word on the internet. It's one thing to be accountable for things you actually said. It's another story when people take quotes out of context, can't see sarcastic tone as it's not expressed well in written form, or just plain misunderstand you. But this is no different then real life when people can twist what you say. If it acts as impetus for people to put more thought into what they're saying, then it's really hard to argue against. In real life you have a limited audience in front of you, you know who that audience is, you know exactly what you're sharing with whom. If you don't want someone to know something, you don't talk about it in his presence. The internet is a much more powerful medium. On the internet, your audience is potentially every single person who has access to a computer. That includes your family, all your friends, your teachers, the people at work, your future employers. It also includes criminals, thieves, crazies, etc., etc.. Even better, your message doesn't fade over time. Are you sure you want everything you write today to be associated with you 20 years from now? Do you really want just anyone in the world to be able to associate your post with a name and an address if he doesn't like what you write? Thinking this is going to turn the battle.net forums into a great forum where nobody posts unless they've got something important to say is naive. The general quality of posting will probably go up as a result, but having all real names exposed on a forum like that is just asking for trouble. But everything you post are potentially read by everyone in the world already! The only difference is that now people can associate those posts with the real you, aka it adds accountability. On July 08 2010 03:33 789 wrote:On July 08 2010 03:12 Bibdy wrote:
Why does accountability require your full name?
Why can't they just use any personalized unique identifier for your forum persona?
Seriously, this is just a damn online video game forum. Why is it so important that it needs to plaster something like your full name around in order to create that accountability? You would achieve the exact same effect of accountability by forcing people to post with a single identifier on the account. Whether its real or not, its still locked to that account and you can't change it without buying another one. Exact same effect as buying another account to generate a fake full name, only this time you did it to be a troll. Not to protect your identity.
One cannot fathom why they chose real name over any kind of unique identifier. They HAVE to know its important to a lot of people. They can't be THAT stupid.
Does anyone honestly think that it makes a difference to the CONTENT of your posts if you were forced to post everywhere on the internet with your current forumID on this site, than with your full name?
I'm willing to bet the content won't change. It only becomes a decision based on the desire to post at all. This is a very good point that this guy has made more than a few times. Why go with real names when you could get the job done with a single unique identifier for that account. It brings accountibility without the privacy concerns - if you're in the habit of being a bad poster/troll people will come to recognize your name. It will also help the moderators. They don't need to worry about IPs, cd keys, or any of that jazz. They can just simply hand out the punishment to the account tied to that name. It adds far less accountability, as the quote above notes people aren't afraid of what other people thinks about their ID but they are afraid of what they think about the real them. Basically what happens is that they don't post things that they wouldn't want people to know, if the only punishment against flaming is that they are now unable to post people would still flame. If however their friends and family can potentially find out about this behavior then it is an extremely strong deterrent. On July 08 2010 03:36 Graven wrote:
And again, if there was no danger in being harrassed then there'd be no prevention of flaming/trolling to begin with, which is what was intended. No, the danger is not about being harassed ffs, the danger is that someone you already know and cares about in real life finds out. Also the dangers of being harassed for posting on a forum will be no more than the danger of being harassed for walking down the street irl. Sure, more reads your posts, but there are also much more posts to be read. If you argue in a topic, there will be 20 others arguing in the same topic, why would he track down just you? The only reason celebrities have a problem with things like this is because they are known by everyone, just because people can see your name on a forum doesn't mean that they know you. It is just like how people on the street can see your face which is extremely intimate information but do anyone actually care about it? Names are not a big deal and since it doesn't even come with a picture it is even less intimate than what millions already have on facebook which is open to all. I bet that a stalker or harasser would more likely seek out people who live near them on facebook with a picture they like rather than attacking a random bnet poster which will be one in a million of faceless names. Except it only adds accountability for people with uncommon names. John Smith can post whatever the hell he pleases because there's a million others out there. It isn't perfect but it is the strongest accountability you can have.
Bullshit. It's false accountability since they still don't know who the hell you are. The only people significantly affected by it are people who have uncommon names. Accountability and the internet are incompatible. The fact that you're looking at a screen and not a person makes it so.
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On July 08 2010 03:54 Klockan3 wrote:
It adds far less accountability, as the quote above notes people aren't afraid of what other people thinks about their ID but they are afraid of what they think about the real them.
Basically what happens is that they don't post things that they wouldn't want people to know, if the only punishment against flaming is that they are now unable to post people would still flame. If however their friends and family can potentially find out about this behavior then it is an extremely strong deterrent.
So, essentially, you're asking for people to harass each other using that real name as a tool to allow harassment? In what way does it generate less accountability? The FEAR of being harassed? How is that even the SLIGHTEST bit ethical? Its akin to a terrorist organization. Using fear to get what they want.
If the ultimate goal is just to make less people post on the forums and reduce the numbers to a more manageable level, well they'll have certainly achieved that goal. They'll probably lose a lot of subscriptions in the process because its clear that Blizzard doesn't really care as much about their privacy and security as they do.
But, just the idea of using the threat of personal security as a weapon to keep people honest on a fricking video game forum is...just...I dunno. Its unprecedented.
If they just want accountability, a unique identifier will do the trick.
If they just want to cull the herd, this system is definitely going to do it, but it raises so many ethical concerns about the company in general.
I've been waiting on SC2 rabidly, but I am seriously tempted to cancel my pre-order (which went through this site...sorry!) and have nothing to do with them again. It leaves a bad precedent and horrid taste in my mouth.
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United States5162 Posts
On July 08 2010 04:02 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:54 Klockan3 wrote:
It adds far less accountability, as the quote above notes people aren't afraid of what other people thinks about their ID but they are afraid of what they think about the real them.
Basically what happens is that they don't post things that they wouldn't want people to know, if the only punishment against flaming is that they are now unable to post people would still flame. If however their friends and family can potentially find out about this behavior then it is an extremely strong deterrent.
So, essentially, you're asking for people to harass each other using that real name as a tool to allow harassment? In what way does it generate less accountability? The FEAR of being harassed? How is that even the SLIGHTEST bit ethical? Its akin to a terrorist organization. Using fear to get what they want. If the ultimate goal is just to make less people post on the forums and reduce the numbers to a more manageable level, well they'll have certainly achieved that goal. They'll probably lose a lot of subscriptions in the process because its clear that Blizzard doesn't really care as much about their privacy and security as they do. But, just the idea of using the threat of personal security as a weapon to keep people honest on a fricking video game forum is...just...I dunno. Its unprecedented.
For real. You're accountable to people you know because you care about their opinion and continued friendship, not because you're worried that they'll punch you in the face. Having unique names provides the same accountability without the safety issues.
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Motherfuckers deleted it. Been up for about 5 hours, probably reached critical mass and they thought it would damage them. Feel free to repost a new thread there, I better not.
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On July 08 2010 04:02 Bibdy wrote:
But, just the idea of using the threat of personal security as a weapon to keep people honest on a fricking video game forum is...just...I dunno. Its unprecedented.
Quoting this because it makes a good point.
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On July 08 2010 04:05 ta2 wrote:Motherfuckers deleted it. Been up for about 5 hours, probably reached critical mass and they thought it would damage them. Feel free to repost a new thread there, I better not.
Fuck it, I'll repost... it's only my SC1 account anyway.
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On July 08 2010 04:05 ta2 wrote:Motherfuckers deleted it. Been up for about 5 hours, probably reached critical mass and they thought it would damage them. Feel free to repost a new thread there, I better not.
Eh, that is complete bullshit. Your thread was fine. They should've banned posters if it was getting out of control, not deleted the post. Mods are probably trigger happy atm though...
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They should make a southpark episode about this IMO.
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On July 08 2010 04:00 Santriell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:54 Klockan3 wrote:
Names are not a big deal and since it doesn't even come with a picture it is even less intimate than what millions already have on facebook which is open to all. I bet that a stalker or harasser would more likely seek out people who live near them on facebook with a picture they like rather than attacking a random bnet poster which will be one in a million of faceless names. WHICH IS PRECISELY THE REASON. With a username, all people can flame is a username. As a teenager I know I want to great lenghts at that time (quake 1&2 :p) to flame certain people I didn't like and usually stopped after sending them a raging e-mail which was never read anyway because nobody cared about emails... Nowadays ? Oh great I have their name... And with facebook/myspace now I have their photo... And hobbies... And home address/phone number with little to no effort... Oh and I even have the contacts of their friends/ex girlfriends who will gladly help me reach "a lost friend"... WONDERFUL ! You're awfully blind if you don't see how it can degenerate into an absolute nightmare...
I don't think that you understand how many will post on these forums... Have you been in any wow discussion? There are like way way way way more people discussing than here, you wont recognize people at all unless they are famous formers and those are just a few and you wont be alone when you discuss things.
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From a satirical perspective, it's a great idea.
Most facebook users are underage.
Most gamers are underage.
Real names are now attached.
Think there are no pedophiles playing video games ? Guess again !
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On July 08 2010 03:59 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:57 Myles wrote:On July 08 2010 03:54 Klockan3 wrote:On July 08 2010 03:33 Orome wrote:On July 08 2010 03:09 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 03:06 TheYango wrote:On July 08 2010 02:58 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 02:56 Orome wrote:On July 08 2010 02:49 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 02:47 Archerofaiur wrote:
[quote]
Do you see how TL manages to do it without, you know, compromising privacy and security? That ignores the larger point I was making, namely that there's been groups and organizations in the real world, time out of mind, whose members have always been able to know the real names of other members, as thats how they communicate. Groups like this still exist, so it's not a huge jump to see that having strangers learn your real name can't be as apocalyptic as a lot of the posting on here would suggest. Except in real life, what you say isn't recorded and displayed for all eternity for anyone in the whole world to read. But what exactly is so wrong with accountability? "Accountability" is not that straightforward when involved with something so easily misinterpreted as written word on the internet. It's one thing to be accountable for things you actually said. It's another story when people take quotes out of context, can't see sarcastic tone as it's not expressed well in written form, or just plain misunderstand you. But this is no different then real life when people can twist what you say. If it acts as impetus for people to put more thought into what they're saying, then it's really hard to argue against. In real life you have a limited audience in front of you, you know who that audience is, you know exactly what you're sharing with whom. If you don't want someone to know something, you don't talk about it in his presence. The internet is a much more powerful medium. On the internet, your audience is potentially every single person who has access to a computer. That includes your family, all your friends, your teachers, the people at work, your future employers. It also includes criminals, thieves, crazies, etc., etc.. Even better, your message doesn't fade over time. Are you sure you want everything you write today to be associated with you 20 years from now? Do you really want just anyone in the world to be able to associate your post with a name and an address if he doesn't like what you write? Thinking this is going to turn the battle.net forums into a great forum where nobody posts unless they've got something important to say is naive. The general quality of posting will probably go up as a result, but having all real names exposed on a forum like that is just asking for trouble. But everything you post are potentially read by everyone in the world already! The only difference is that now people can associate those posts with the real you, aka it adds accountability. On July 08 2010 03:33 789 wrote:On July 08 2010 03:12 Bibdy wrote:
Why does accountability require your full name?
Why can't they just use any personalized unique identifier for your forum persona?
Seriously, this is just a damn online video game forum. Why is it so important that it needs to plaster something like your full name around in order to create that accountability? You would achieve the exact same effect of accountability by forcing people to post with a single identifier on the account. Whether its real or not, its still locked to that account and you can't change it without buying another one. Exact same effect as buying another account to generate a fake full name, only this time you did it to be a troll. Not to protect your identity.
One cannot fathom why they chose real name over any kind of unique identifier. They HAVE to know its important to a lot of people. They can't be THAT stupid.
Does anyone honestly think that it makes a difference to the CONTENT of your posts if you were forced to post everywhere on the internet with your current forumID on this site, than with your full name?
I'm willing to bet the content won't change. It only becomes a decision based on the desire to post at all. This is a very good point that this guy has made more than a few times. Why go with real names when you could get the job done with a single unique identifier for that account. It brings accountibility without the privacy concerns - if you're in the habit of being a bad poster/troll people will come to recognize your name. It will also help the moderators. They don't need to worry about IPs, cd keys, or any of that jazz. They can just simply hand out the punishment to the account tied to that name. It adds far less accountability, as the quote above notes people aren't afraid of what other people thinks about their ID but they are afraid of what they think about the real them. Basically what happens is that they don't post things that they wouldn't want people to know, if the only punishment against flaming is that they are now unable to post people would still flame. If however their friends and family can potentially find out about this behavior then it is an extremely strong deterrent. On July 08 2010 03:36 Graven wrote:
And again, if there was no danger in being harrassed then there'd be no prevention of flaming/trolling to begin with, which is what was intended. No, the danger is not about being harassed ffs, the danger is that someone you already know and cares about in real life finds out. Also the dangers of being harassed for posting on a forum will be no more than the danger of being harassed for walking down the street irl. Sure, more reads your posts, but there are also much more posts to be read. If you argue in a topic, there will be 20 others arguing in the same topic, why would he track down just you? The only reason celebrities have a problem with things like this is because they are known by everyone, just because people can see your name on a forum doesn't mean that they know you. It is just like how people on the street can see your face which is extremely intimate information but do anyone actually care about it? Names are not a big deal and since it doesn't even come with a picture it is even less intimate than what millions already have on facebook which is open to all. I bet that a stalker or harasser would more likely seek out people who live near them on facebook with a picture they like rather than attacking a random bnet poster which will be one in a million of faceless names. Except it only adds accountability for people with uncommon names. John Smith can post whatever the hell he pleases because there's a million others out there. It isn't perfect but it is the strongest accountability you can have.
Do you really need to bring in that level of accountibility? It's the forum of a game. Do you really need to be held accountible in real life for the things you say there? If you think so, you need to take GAMES a little less seriously.
What's wrong with the accountibility of a unique name? Sure it isn't as much as tieing posts about a GAME to their real life repuation ... which I think is a step over the line. You have a habit of flaming and trolling? Your account gets banned from posting in any forum tied to it. You want to post in a forum again ... you have to buy a new game. That's far enough imo.
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On July 08 2010 04:11 Santriell wrote:
Most gamers are underage.
Oh really? I advise you to actually go and research that instead of spouting bullshit.
I'll even give you a hint at what you need to do, google: average gamer age.
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On July 08 2010 04:14 Shirolol wrote:Oh really? I advise you to actually go and research that instead of spouting bullshit.
Obviously mr genius here overlooked the word "satirical".
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On July 08 2010 04:14 Shirolol wrote:Oh really? I advise you to actually go and research that instead of spouting bullshit. I'll even give you a hint at what you need to do, google: average gamer age.
Most money is spent by the 18-24 and 24-30 categories, you'll find.
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On July 08 2010 04:15 Santriell wrote:
Obviously mr genius here overlooked the word "satirical".
No you were just wrong, satire doesn't even come into it.
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This is great. I've been opposed to idiotic kids playing cool behind a fake identity since the internet began. If you don't have balls enough to say what you want to say in public, then don't say it at all. Blizzard is doing this to prevent trolling and abusive behavior. Well worth it imo.
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On July 08 2010 04:14 789 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:59 Klockan3 wrote:On July 08 2010 03:57 Myles wrote:On July 08 2010 03:54 Klockan3 wrote:On July 08 2010 03:33 Orome wrote:On July 08 2010 03:09 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 03:06 TheYango wrote:On July 08 2010 02:58 See.Blue wrote:On July 08 2010 02:56 Orome wrote:On July 08 2010 02:49 See.Blue wrote:
[quote]
That ignores the larger point I was making, namely that there's been groups and organizations in the real world, time out of mind, whose members have always been able to know the real names of other members, as thats how they communicate. Groups like this still exist, so it's not a huge jump to see that having strangers learn your real name can't be as apocalyptic as a lot of the posting on here would suggest. Except in real life, what you say isn't recorded and displayed for all eternity for anyone in the whole world to read. But what exactly is so wrong with accountability? "Accountability" is not that straightforward when involved with something so easily misinterpreted as written word on the internet. It's one thing to be accountable for things you actually said. It's another story when people take quotes out of context, can't see sarcastic tone as it's not expressed well in written form, or just plain misunderstand you. But this is no different then real life when people can twist what you say. If it acts as impetus for people to put more thought into what they're saying, then it's really hard to argue against. In real life you have a limited audience in front of you, you know who that audience is, you know exactly what you're sharing with whom. If you don't want someone to know something, you don't talk about it in his presence. The internet is a much more powerful medium. On the internet, your audience is potentially every single person who has access to a computer. That includes your family, all your friends, your teachers, the people at work, your future employers. It also includes criminals, thieves, crazies, etc., etc.. Even better, your message doesn't fade over time. Are you sure you want everything you write today to be associated with you 20 years from now? Do you really want just anyone in the world to be able to associate your post with a name and an address if he doesn't like what you write? Thinking this is going to turn the battle.net forums into a great forum where nobody posts unless they've got something important to say is naive. The general quality of posting will probably go up as a result, but having all real names exposed on a forum like that is just asking for trouble. But everything you post are potentially read by everyone in the world already! The only difference is that now people can associate those posts with the real you, aka it adds accountability. On July 08 2010 03:33 789 wrote:On July 08 2010 03:12 Bibdy wrote:
Why does accountability require your full name?
Why can't they just use any personalized unique identifier for your forum persona?
Seriously, this is just a damn online video game forum. Why is it so important that it needs to plaster something like your full name around in order to create that accountability? You would achieve the exact same effect of accountability by forcing people to post with a single identifier on the account. Whether its real or not, its still locked to that account and you can't change it without buying another one. Exact same effect as buying another account to generate a fake full name, only this time you did it to be a troll. Not to protect your identity.
One cannot fathom why they chose real name over any kind of unique identifier. They HAVE to know its important to a lot of people. They can't be THAT stupid.
Does anyone honestly think that it makes a difference to the CONTENT of your posts if you were forced to post everywhere on the internet with your current forumID on this site, than with your full name?
I'm willing to bet the content won't change. It only becomes a decision based on the desire to post at all. This is a very good point that this guy has made more than a few times. Why go with real names when you could get the job done with a single unique identifier for that account. It brings accountibility without the privacy concerns - if you're in the habit of being a bad poster/troll people will come to recognize your name. It will also help the moderators. They don't need to worry about IPs, cd keys, or any of that jazz. They can just simply hand out the punishment to the account tied to that name. It adds far less accountability, as the quote above notes people aren't afraid of what other people thinks about their ID but they are afraid of what they think about the real them. Basically what happens is that they don't post things that they wouldn't want people to know, if the only punishment against flaming is that they are now unable to post people would still flame. If however their friends and family can potentially find out about this behavior then it is an extremely strong deterrent. On July 08 2010 03:36 Graven wrote:
And again, if there was no danger in being harrassed then there'd be no prevention of flaming/trolling to begin with, which is what was intended. No, the danger is not about being harassed ffs, the danger is that someone you already know and cares about in real life finds out. Also the dangers of being harassed for posting on a forum will be no more than the danger of being harassed for walking down the street irl. Sure, more reads your posts, but there are also much more posts to be read. If you argue in a topic, there will be 20 others arguing in the same topic, why would he track down just you? The only reason celebrities have a problem with things like this is because they are known by everyone, just because people can see your name on a forum doesn't mean that they know you. It is just like how people on the street can see your face which is extremely intimate information but do anyone actually care about it? Names are not a big deal and since it doesn't even come with a picture it is even less intimate than what millions already have on facebook which is open to all. I bet that a stalker or harasser would more likely seek out people who live near them on facebook with a picture they like rather than attacking a random bnet poster which will be one in a million of faceless names. Except it only adds accountability for people with uncommon names. John Smith can post whatever the hell he pleases because there's a million others out there. It isn't perfect but it is the strongest accountability you can have. Do you really need to bring in that level of accountibility? It's the forum of a game. Do you really need to be held accountible in real life for the things you say there? If you think so, you need to take GAMES a little less seriously. What's wrong with the accountibility of a unique name? Sure it isn't as much as tieing posts about a GAME to their real life repuation ... which I think is a step over the line. You have a habit of flaming and trolling? Your account gets banned from posting in any forum tied to it. You want to post in a forum again ... you have to buy a new game. That's far enough imo.
When you discuss with other people it is no longer just a game.
I think that this will revolutionize internet forums to the better. Why was facebook so successful? Because it made people use their real names. Real names makes people take it much more seriously, and it only works as long as everyone do it which is why Blizzard needs to do it this way.
If it becomes a huge problem they will most likely change it to only include WoW, but in WoW it will work perfectly. Hopefully in the end people will realize that it isn't such a huge deal to reveal your name on the net.
My name is Johan Strååt if anyone wonders. You can probably dig up a picture with that, but who cares really...
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With just a first and last name it is simple to find someone's addressl, phone number, and other information on the internet. If you pay money you can find credit reports, and if they aren't a government employee you can get even more information on them from the Federal government.
All you really need is their name if it isn't common and if you have their state or province (which likely won't be hard to get) then you're good to go. An internet noob can do this, I'm sure people with ill intentions can do it as well, whether it be to harm someone or blackmail them. People can think that everyone is overreacting about this and stuff but for those of us who have grown up on the internet and seen some of the crazy shit people will do I can tell you right now that I will never post on the B.net forums as long as this policy is in place and I'd advise anyone else to do the same.
edit: Oh, and by the way Blizzard, my B.net account doesn't have my full name registered to it. So uh, how exactly is this going to raise accountability? Can't someone just make an account and put the name "Silly Troll?" Or are you just expecting people to be honest?
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There have been social scientists arguing for this for a while for the reasons blizzard describes. Trying to remove people's sense of anonimity makes they act less like assholes. However this is a bad idea for several reasons.
Gains:
People will be slightly more civil on a forums people will now flock from. Makes social networking slightly easier to do in their terrible system.
Losses:
Every possible result of people having access to my legal name information is unacceptable. From pranks, to phone calls, even to harassment. The odds are low, but they should be zero.
Prediction: unofficial forums will rise exponentially in popularity for both WoW and SC. The moderation will be lightyears better as well.
The SA forums for SC are better than bnet anyway.
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EPT
