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On July 07 2010 12:33 Noggin wrote: So my name goes to my email (which is half my bnet log-in info) and residence.
And I'm a douchebag both in real life and online. So I find this to be a real conundrum.
Even if I were to choose not to participate in the forums there may be a time where I the require tech support thread and then become google super star and it's only a matter of time before 4chan orders me pizzas.
Haha, my website's my actual name as well, so I'd be DOUBLY VULNERABLE!!!!! But if this was a concern I never would have registered that in my own name without getting a front company so. Who knows!
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On July 07 2010 12:52 Plethora wrote: There are many reasons I disagree with this vehemently, but just to add an anecdote.
I have a computer science master's degree. I asked a professor of mine before I finished about getting a job, how best to go about it, blah blah blah. He told me that I should avoid mentioning my interest in gaming, period. Reason being with gaming becoming an increasingly large industry a lot of "traditional" software development agencies will look at a fresh young computer scientist with an interest in gaming as someone who is going to jump ship as soon as a good job in gaming comes along. To be fair he said that most employers wouldn't see it that way, but he had spoken to some who do think that way, and why should I risk it?
So Blizz, why risk it?
My Comp Sci prof said a similar thing. Not about gaming, but just about privacy online in general. Be careful what you post, and how you present yourself, because it will come back to bite you in the ass in ways you probably don't even realize. He wasn't even talking about being an asshat, just about general stigmas and how people perceive you. This was is 1997. He was no dummy.
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On July 07 2010 12:16 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2010 11:09 StreetHeat wrote:+ Show Spoiler + In much the same way that pasting [Bullies' Names] on their chests in school somehow decreases their bullying?
A bully will continue to be a bully, a troll will continue to be a troll. There is no way any logical train of thought can result in the assumption that an undesirable poster will decrease their undesirable activity when they are still provided a certain degree of separation from their intended target.
Arguments against providing real life names aside (which are valid) - [Cairneey] still remains as anonymous to me as [Joe Schmo] - and [Joe Schmo] knows this and will continue to act accordingly.
In short - there are no more repercussions for undesirable posters with this new system than there are now, given the above.
In fact, just as much would be accomplished if all forum posters were relegated to posting on one and only one character, with the option to show (but not post on) other characters on their account with the click of a button on their avatar.
There is no need to use real-life names, even if creating a larger social network is what is intended. If someone sees me on the forums and wishes to talk with me in game, there is already an avenue for that. If things go well and we mutually decide to ramp up our relationship to exchange personal information - including real-life names - there's already an avenue for that.
So the challenge, I guess, is explaining to everyone just how having real-life names will offer any improvement at all to the system already in place. 'Lifting the veil of anonymity' is not an argument and is hollow at best. Providing a more social environment is also not an argument, seeing as how we have the ability to do so right now - at our own pace and at our own discretion.
¸..• '¨¨)) -:¦:- ¸.•' .•'¨¨)) Frejya -:¦:- ((¸¸.•' ...•' -:¦:- This is prob one of the most logical posts Ive seen on the subject posted by one of the wow forum MVPs Ugh that writing is like fingernails on a blackboard. I guess we should all try to be content with paragraphs, punctuation and capitalization. Any higher standards than those will guarantee disappointment. Lifting the veil of anonymity encourages people to behave consistently online and in person. I've never heard of anyone being mean in person but nice online. But of course there are many people who are nice in person but mean online. People are worried about their forum posts being in a public record because of job opportunities or academic opportunities or what friends/families would think of them. (Many of these people are against Blizzard's change because of this. They realize that if they continue to behave the way they do, which they like to do, they'd have negative consequences.) They would act more respectfully and politely or they wouldn't participate at all. They wouldn't automatically use a gaming forum as their outlet for being a disrespectful asshole. It does provide a more social environment for some people because using an alias and having a default state of anonymity are childish aspects of the gaming world. They deter people from having a normal social experience. Every respectable pastime involves people using real identities with each other. It's natural that a person who doesn't care about a thing like that, such as Frejya, needs someone to explain it to them.
I don't think people are worried about someone finding out their opinion on paladin balance, I think they are worried about someone finding out that they play World of Warcraft. I don't know what to tell people who say things like "No on googles your name," when it happens ALL the time.
The poster you quoted says:
So the challenge, I guess, is explaining to everyone just how having real-life names will offer any improvement at all to the system already in place. 'Lifting the veil of anonymity' is not an argument and is hollow at best.
You say:
-Lifting the veil of anonymity encourages people to behave consistently online and in person. -It does provide a more social environment for some people because using an alias and having a default state of anonymity are childish aspects of the gaming world.
What makes you more correct? Neither of you have provided any cold hard data, and never will. I happen to agree with the former, but that doesn't make me wrong. Everyone values personal information on the internet differently.
It's obvious that there are pros and other positive results, just like there are cons and negative things that will come to the boards.
It might promote healthy discussion and lead to many new friendships. Or, it might become a place of shallow opinions (because no one wants to post about their thoughts on controversial topics) and become an even more meaningless place then it is now. It is impossible to calculate how 15 million users will handle this change. The only thing that is certain is that privacy is lost.
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On July 07 2010 12:32 Doko wrote: I don't get it, its almost like blizzard thinks there isn't people out there willing to make their life mission to talk shit about their company and products.
No one gives a flying fuck about their features, everyone wants a good game. period.
meh... love the game but as it stands I ain't buying it
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I honestly don't care about my full name. Why is it a big deal? So 40 year old guys posing as 12 year old girls can't post anymore? Oh no! I wouldn't care if anyone called me by my real name. You people are all crazy! :p
Speaking of which, hey all, I'm Johnathon Smith. Nice to meet you. Is that so hard??
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On July 07 2010 12:52 Mjolnir wrote:
So much of the way b.net 2.0 is being handled is just disappointing. This real-name-on-forums nonsense just adds to the disappointment.
As others have stated, the argument that it's being implemented to thwart trolling is specious. There's just too much similar crap involved in SC2 and B.Net 2.0 to make me think there isn't some other reason that the higher-ups at Activision have in mind.
Can't wait to see how the micro-transactions for premium maps and community-crafted maps play out (if there are any).
Blah. Poor Blizzard. How far the mighty have fallen.
Agreed. I am seriously reconsidering my pre order of SC2. After hearing Kotick's comments throughout the past year, I have not wanted to support ActiBlizz in anyway, but I kept telling myself that Blizzard was not directly effected by Activision. Nothing bad could come of their partnership. Then came Bnet 2 and all of the junk associated with that (no LAN or chat channels), questionable decisions with regards to game development (3D over AA. WTF???), and now this firm stance on privacy. If Blizzard wants to continue down the social network road, so be it. I just don't want to support such a company. Blizzard has been continually losing my respect for the past few year, but these recent events just solidified it.
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I don't think this is an effective measure to combat trolling. It is giving trolls an additional avenue. Instead of 'elitepwner666' trolling the forums, it will be 'Mike Litoris' trolling the forums.
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On July 07 2010 13:00 Bowdz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2010 12:52 Mjolnir wrote:
So much of the way b.net 2.0 is being handled is just disappointing. This real-name-on-forums nonsense just adds to the disappointment.
As others have stated, the argument that it's being implemented to thwart trolling is specious. There's just too much similar crap involved in SC2 and B.Net 2.0 to make me think there isn't some other reason that the higher-ups at Activision have in mind.
Can't wait to see how the micro-transactions for premium maps and community-crafted maps play out (if there are any).
Blah. Poor Blizzard. How far the mighty have fallen. Agreed. I am seriously reconsidering my pre order of SC2. After hearing Kotick's comments throughout the past year, I have not wanted to support ActiBlizz in anyway, but I kept telling myself that Blizzard was not directly effected by Activision. Nothing bad could come of their partnership. Then came Bnet 2 and all of the junk associated with that (no LAN or chat channels), questionable decisions with regards to game development (3D over AA. WTF???), and now this firm stance on privacy. If Blizzard wants to continue down the social network road, so be it. I just don't want to support such a company. Blizzard has been continually losing my respect for the past few year, but these recent events just solidified it. to be fair there probably will be little to 0 changes to the engine to do 3d. Nvidia is likely to do all the work for blizzard and just make sure it works as intended on the game.
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On July 07 2010 13:00 TheAngelofDeath wrote: I honestly don't care about my full name. Why is it a big deal? So 40 year old guys posing as 12 year old girls can't post anymore? Oh no! I wouldn't care if anyone called me by my real name. You people are all crazy! :p
Speaking of which, hey all, I'm Johnathon Smith. Nice to meet you. Is that so hard??
John Smith. Yeah, no wonder you don't think it's a big deal.
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There are way too many pages and this thread is moving too quickly, with the well formulated posts too spread out, so could someone just answer my question, which is "what's the big deal?"
Are people like worried that their real life friends will see them on the forums and see that they are nerds or something?
I see that this is a hot issue, and I truly do not understand.
btw my name is elias paul miller. lul
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i happen to know Mike Litoris, hes a good guy.
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It does provide a more social environment for some people because using an alias and having a default state of anonymity are childish aspects of the gaming world. They deter people from having a normal social experience. Every respectable pastime involves people using real identities with each other. It's natural that a person who doesn't care about a thing like that, such as Frejya, needs someone to explain it to them. This is true NonY, however, I have a choice with the scope of my pastimes. If I decide to play in a Flea Market Soccer league my name may be known to a couple dozen people. If i decide to play for Man Utd. I choose to have my name known by millions (Not that a skinny nerd like me ever could). If I am a casual just looking for advice on a build order I don't find it fair my name be known to a few potential millions browsing a forum.
If I play against some cool people and find practice partners I am totally cool giving out my name one-on-one but I would still prefer that choice to be mine. If I decide to become a caster and try to get E-Fame out of SC then yes I would expect that many more people would have access to my name.(Not that a low apm illiterate nerd like me could)
P.S. XO Elliott Smith
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On July 07 2010 13:05 superman. wrote: There are way too many pages and this thread is moving too quickly, with the well formulated posts too spread out, so could someone just answer my question, which is "what's the big deal?"
Are people like worried that their real life friends will see them on the forums and see that they are nerds or something?
I see that this is a hot issue, and I truly do not understand.
btw my name is elias paul miller. lul Choice is the "big deal" you chose to share your name, I don't.
I like to chose things for myself and blizz is forcing me a change.
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On July 07 2010 13:00 TheAngelofDeath wrote: I honestly don't care about my full name. Why is it a big deal? So 40 year old guys posing as 12 year old girls can't post anymore? Oh no! I wouldn't care if anyone called me by my real name. You people are all crazy! :p
Speaking of which, hey all, I'm Johnathon Smith. Nice to meet you. Is that so hard??
Lol, brilliant.
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On July 07 2010 13:05 superman. wrote: There are way too many pages and this thread is moving too quickly, with the well formulated posts too spread out, so could someone just answer my question, which is "what's the big deal?"
Are people like worried that their real life friends will see them on the forums and see that they are nerds or something?
I see that this is a hot issue, and I truly do not understand.
btw my name is elias paul miller. lul
It is moving too fast. These are some of the issues.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5648910 + Show Spoiler +It's not a matter of pride or people hiding who they are. We don't have to deal with this anonymity problem generally in our real lives. Each place we go is compartmentalized generally with relatively little overlap.
For example, I can go out to the bar with friends and we have our conversations, our modes of speak, and a shared level of knowledge that we feel comfortable sharing. We may go to our therapist and have a different set of conversations and shared knowledge. We then go to work, to the gym, to a store, etc.
The issue with the internet is that these places aren't compartmentalized. They're cross-referenceable. A name is one of the ways to draw together all the threads. The anonymity on the Internet allows us to take back some of that privacy that the Internet is inherently not designed to provide. This doesn't mean that people should misrepresent themselves wherever they choose to associate, but it does mean that I shouldn't have to use information that unnecessarily connects my different associations online.
In a future Internet that behaves this way, should someone need to fear when they go post on some medical forum or legal forum for advice and guidance, and then that gets dredged up when someone posts on a discussion board or another gaming board?
Just because someone knows your name, doesn't end your life. Clearly it doesn't. It doesn't guarantee that your identity gets stolen. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. But it's a lot more threatening than people give it credit for. It's just a sign of the time, perhaps. In an age where the day after someone like Joe the Plumber appears on the scene, Internet sleuths can find out if he owes back taxes, ever had any tickets, whether he's a real plumber, etc and cast serious aspersion on his character and his life, do we really want to turn a blind eye while companies like Blizzard help with this?
Think about the politicians who end up having to drop out of races because of something they wrote in college. Politicians and celebrities have to go through therapy and training to deal with the increased scrutiny and decreased privacy that they typically have. Attaching our personally identifiable information to things we do online is just one step towards making that the norm for everybody.
The answer to this is persistent aliases. Let me choose how I want to be called, but make me stick to it and not arbitrarily change that. That's fair. Now, I'm accountable for what I write, but I have no fear that what I say no matter how innocuous can be linked back to something else. If someone wants to write in a thread about Gay Gaming or something like that, they don't have to be worried that that gets traced back to their facebook, to their work, or wherever.
There're far larger philosophical and practical considerations to this than just the exact repercussions of Blizzard posting your name next to your whine about TvZ balance. Sometimes you have to look one step farther on these things.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5649022 + Show Spoiler +It's my business if I want to be proud of who I am to the extent of telling everyone about it, or if I want to create an internet persona and not attach my gaming habits to my real name. You may not be experiencing this yourself, but a GREAT many people are, in their own lives, connected to a lot of ignorant, selfish, volatile, presumptuous, and WORSE people, who we none the less love and don't want to have to cut ourselves off from.
This being the case, use at least 2% of your imagination and think about just a few of the myriad reasons you might want or even NEED to hide your real name on the public internet to avoid friction with your real life situation. Do you have any family members that google your name on a weekly basis looking for dirt, and then email you about it? Email your mom? Post on your facebook (I've long, long since disabled my facebook due to these behaviors)? Are you related to politically active fundamentalist christians who would be extremely angry about you playing and supporting "the devil's games?" Hey! All of the above are part of my situation. I don't post on the WoW boards, ever, and I certainly won't after this,
This is an extremely bad precedent for the internet as a whole for a vast number of reasons, and I really weep and face-palm at all the people without the imagination to think outside their own tiny little situation and see how this change might affect other people. So you sit around here defending this change with your little presumptions and party lines. Man, if only you could see yourselves as I see you.
Don't you get the feeling that you're being straight up dicked with like a little toy soldier? Like some corporate asshole is sitting in his office trying to solve problems he doesn't understand, from a bird's eye view with no connection to the problems the solution is causing? Are you really so naive as to think THERE'S NO DANGER in using your real name on the internet? Do you think that the countless places it's already being used changes the fact that using it in more places is a BAD IDEA? Don't you get that this a very bad precedent which needs to be vehemently opposed so it doesn't become the norm? When Activision and Blizzard do the same thing with the next game and the next game, and the game after that, and then EA and 2K do it too, will you just keep accepting it? Will you accept the idea that "well, I don't want to post my real name on the public internet, I guess I'm not allowed to post anywhere" one day, maybe less than a decade away?
http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?68744-RealID-Unethical-and-Dangerous + Show Spoiler +RealID -- Unethical and Dangerous
The RealID changes to Blizzard's official forums are unequivocally unethical and potentially dangerous. The community response on their official forums -- as well as nearly every fansite -- is huge and overwhelmingly negative.
Blizzard's stated goal is to help reduce trolling on the forums. The idea is that when a poster has an identity they can't escape, they're less likely to threaten their reputation. Their other, less-discussed goal is the creation of a Blizzard-owned Facebook which they can directly monetize and which can also provide an advertising platform for future games.
They're doing this entirely at the expense of your personal privacy. If you want to use a service you had used in the past, you now have to be willing to post your real name to the public alongside every post.
Here's where the problems are: Employment -- Posting to Blizzard's forums will now show up for any employer doing a search on your name. Given Blizzard's search engine rankings, you can bet this will be pretty high up on the list of results. No matter how unfair, many employers will look on this negatively.
Women -- Many women playing the game choose to conceal their gender to avoid harassment. Whether fair or not, posting publicly with their real name will not only be uncomfortable for some but could very well lead to direct sexual harassment in and out of game.
Minors -- Any parent will need to be far more concerned about their children's activities on Blizzard sites than they currently are. This is especially true in any case where a child's real name can be found or their address can be tracked.
Uncommon Names -- Anyone with an uncommon name can much more easily be tracked.
Security & Hacked Accounts -- Blizzard is not doing a good job safeguarding accounts. If they have another breach in their account system, it won't matter how clean your own computer is -- a malicious user could be posting under your name, leaving a permanent and damaging trail. This move probably will get rid of trolls. It is certain to get rid of a lot of good posters, too. Unfortunately, the forums are also one of their main avenues for both customer and technical support, and users are often redirected to them even while on the phone w/ those departments.
You will never see another post from me on their forums. I've already given my name out via other platforms, but those were my choice, and those were done in a setting where I can completely control how a potential employer views it. I know a number of other good users who are being faced with this same decision and coming to the same conclusion.
You don't need to be a security or privacy rights advocate to understand how bad this can be for you or your friends on a personal level.
Just a smattering. I apologize for the great posts I've missed. This thread is moving fast, I've likely read them all, but I can't remember them offhand at the moment.
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On July 07 2010 13:10 miltondtf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2010 13:05 superman. wrote: There are way too many pages and this thread is moving too quickly, with the well formulated posts too spread out, so could someone just answer my question, which is "what's the big deal?"
Are people like worried that their real life friends will see them on the forums and see that they are nerds or something?
I see that this is a hot issue, and I truly do not understand.
btw my name is elias paul miller. lul Choice is the "big deal" you chose to share your name, I don't. I like to chose things for myself and blizz is forcing me a change.
but why do you not want to share you name? I seriously don't get it.
edit: thanks takkara I'll read those links
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On July 07 2010 13:04 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2010 13:00 TheAngelofDeath wrote: I honestly don't care about my full name. Why is it a big deal? So 40 year old guys posing as 12 year old girls can't post anymore? Oh no! I wouldn't care if anyone called me by my real name. You people are all crazy! :p
Speaking of which, hey all, I'm Johnathon Smith. Nice to meet you. Is that so hard?? John Smith. Yeah, no wonder you don't think it's a big deal.
And what exactly would your name have to be for it to be a big deal? Its just your name. People should be proud of who they are.
Btw, you're one of those 40 year old guys aren't you?
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On July 07 2010 13:11 superman. wrote:
but why do you not want to share you name? I seriously don't get it.
edit: thanks takkara I'll read those links
You don't really need to get it, you just need to know that there are legitimate reasons to not want to share your name. Because Blizz is forcing the issue, it's a bad idea, regardless of whether you don't mind sharing *your* name.
People really need to separate themselves from what is good for them individually and take a look at the bigger picture more often.
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well i guess if you want the game and community to be taken more seriously, this might not be bad for esports, considering esports will run through blizzard this time. It's definitely different and idk what the effects are gonna be, but treating this game in this more serious way rather than a little game could be a step in the right direction. For anyone who isn't very competitive this is probably not a good thing for you, but then again, why would u wan't to post if you're not into the game as much? I think this will make it so that less people will troll and post bull, seeing as how everyone will know who you are. Besides, if you wan't to troll u can just post in one of the other millions of SC2-related forums.
Good or bad in the end? idk
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On July 07 2010 13:11 superman. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2010 13:10 miltondtf wrote:On July 07 2010 13:05 superman. wrote: There are way too many pages and this thread is moving too quickly, with the well formulated posts too spread out, so could someone just answer my question, which is "what's the big deal?"
Are people like worried that their real life friends will see them on the forums and see that they are nerds or something?
I see that this is a hot issue, and I truly do not understand.
btw my name is elias paul miller. lul Choice is the "big deal" you chose to share your name, I don't. I like to chose things for myself and blizz is forcing me a change. but why do you not want to share you name? I seriously don't get it. edit: thanks takkara I'll read those links Cos its mine, its personal and I just don't want to. I don't like onions either but some ppl do. But forget the name, that's not the biggest issue, the problem is that it sets a base were a company starts forcing you to release you personal info to the hole world to access all the features you are already paying for..
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