Entertainment =/= Gaming - Page 7

On June 17 2010 05:25 Misrah wrote:

Thank you for bringing up this point. While you yourself are not interested in monetary gains- the company you will be working for is. and in the case of activision blizzard- the board of directors is very very concerned with making money.

On June 17 2010 05:12 owenowens33 wrote:


I actually agree 100% on this, especially with regards to Melee's de-evolution into Brawl. Those of you who may believe that Brawl is some sort of competitive fighter did not witness or experience the incredibly competitive Melee scene. And Misrah is right, Melee was never meant to be a truly competitive fighter (it was made by nintendo, I mean, come on), but it became one because the players in the community found various advanced techniques that completely obliterated the envisioned skill ceiling. Becoming a competitive Melee player was one of the most difficult things to achieve in my gaming career, and its up there with getting to C- on Iccup for BW.

Then came the advent of Brawl. The sequel was highly anticipated by both the casual and the hardcore alike, until the hardcore realized that the game was being developing SOLELY for the casual market. The speed of the games was horribly nerfed. The advanced techniques that served as pillars for competitive Melee were instantly taken out and replaced with something no fighting game has even SEEN before: tripping, which randomly tripped players stunned them while running. It is hard to describe the transition from Brawl to Melee as anything but a complete abandonment of the hardcore gamer in favor of the massive, casual audience. And guess who won? Nintendo did. The game sold incredibly well; hell, IGN gave it a 9.5. But the release of Brawl introduced a gaping dichotomy in the Smash community, and most of the hardcore smash players continue to play Melee even now. The only losers in this equation are the hardcore gamers that did not receive a fully functioning sequel. Both the gaming companies and the casual gamers got exactly what they wanted.

The pull is undeniable, even for a hardcore gamer. My roommate used to play Counter Strike with me; in fact, he was the one who got me into it. I used to be amazed at his skills, and I just get practicing because I wanted to be good at the game. And trust me, if you have ever played Counter Strike before, you know that the first couple of weeks you play that game you are going to get owned. Over and over again. But I persisted because the competitiveness of the game and its steep learning curve drove me to keep playing, rather than pushing me away because it was too hard. I am now much better than my roommate at CS and continue to play in CEVO CSS leagues.

But the real point of the story is why my roommate stopped playing CS. He started to pick up other shooters like TF2, and eventually Modern Warfare. He started playing Modern Warfare and never looked back to CS because (he even said this to me) "I'm really good Modern Warfare, I love owning these kids". And so I started playing it, and within an hour I was getting the same KDR's as he was. It wasnt because I was some god like FPS gamer. It was simply because the guns have no recoil, the entire KDR is based upon Kill Streak rewards, and most of the community was 10-16 year old kids. It simply wasn't that compelling for me. But my roommate loved it. It was entertaining. However, MW2 came out and the community slowly got better and better. Soon my roommate hated the regular team deathmatch because he simply wasnt getting the KDR he wanted. So what did he do? Try and get better at the game so he could be more competitive? No. He now exclusively plays the Ground War playlist because "Its easier cause people who play Ground War are noobs". This is a classic example of someone who just wants to succeed, even if succeeding requires no effort.

However, I have to disagree with the OP on one thing: I still believe in SC2. I know that there have been some mechanics that make the game easier for the casual (MBS, smart cast, automine), but there exists a large discrepancy between the good players and the great players of the game. The skill ceiling, as it stands right now, is undoubtedly lower than the SCBW, but I still believe that Blizzard knows that SC2 must appeal to the hardcore gaming base that has built the SC community. Have faith in Blizzard, they really do deliver quality games.



I think you are missing the point. It is obvious that there can be a game that is easy to pick up but hard to master. SSBM was a game like that, tailored for the casual, but the hardcore drove the metagame until it was highly competitive. What Misrah is saying is that gaming developers now are consciously trying to limit the competitiveness of a game in order to attract a larger casual audience and generate more profit. For example, imagine a company that comes up with the game of Soccer. Then the company comes up with Soccer 2.0, and builds into the game rules that are specifically designed to make the game non-competitive, such as no running, the goals are bigger, etc etc.
Also, no pro goes out and challenges a 6 year to a soccer match, beats him badly, and then scars the kid for life. However, on an online platform, advanced gamers are matched up with noobs constantly; game companies are afraid of the noobs becoming wary of a game because he or she cannot play the game without being beaten badly by an experienced player online.

On June 17 2010 05:23 Misrah wrote:
Nope just enjoying that people are up in arms about the truth.

Entertainment is big bucks, and all of you are buying into it. That is what my OP was- that is my opinion and i am sticking with it.

On June 17 2010 05:26 Manilix wrote:
So Misrah, just to clarify, is your problem with SC2 that it is "entertaining" or the fact the Blizz will make money on it ?

Both of which are highly dependent on one another.

On June 17 2010 05:29 Misrah wrote:


My OP was about more than SC2 and Blizz- most probably did not care to read it.

But my problem right now is that games are not games anymore. they are simply entertainment. Games used to be challenging, and have clear lines of competitive skill. However now games are just made for the masses because it is easier and is more profitable. and it seems that i am the only person seeing this.

That annoys me- so i am letting my voice be heard here in the SC2 forum.

Thank you for proving my point.

Starcraft is competitive. The pros play on a competitive level. A 6 year old (or a copper player) will be playing the game for entertainment. But they are playing the same game.



Starcraft BW was fine, SC2 will be fine.

On June 17 2010 05:18 OpRaider wrote:


stop acting morally superior to everyone...by using this "APM technology" thing as your cover

On June 17 2010 05:33 Manilix wrote:



Well thats just BS my friend. I have been around sins the WAY early days. Running up a count of 28 old now. I have played on the pro scene of multiple games (inc CS 1.6) and nothing has changed.

What however has changed is how fast i learn new games now, based what i have done in previous games. But make no misstake, nony or Idea or any number of players will still own my ass head to head.

So saying the competetive aspect is gone is just not true