PVT unbalance in diamond league - Page 3
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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m3rciless
United States1476 Posts
On May 28 2010 00:40 Inori wrote: Been there done that. I own my main race as a Terran. Can i look forwards to some #1 finishes, since terran is so ezmode? | ||
Slunk
Germany768 Posts
The key is to keep unit numbers low and gain an early economy advantage. As soon as he gets 10 tanks and 50 marines with upgrades there is nothing you can do because against marines you need splash damage in form of templar or colossus and both get eaten alive by tanks. the only way I found to win vs. this style is getting 6 bases, 30 gateways and recalling the shit out of him. Not cost effective at all, but it works. The keys is obviously to abuse the immobility of tanks. Like recall your army in his main to kill his production buildings and at the same time blink some stalkers into another base of his. | ||
Driveby
Canada16 Posts
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Almtom
Sweden132 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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MezmerizePLZ
United States30 Posts
I'm really curious how things will change when the maps start being created by competitive players for competitive players. blizzard has done great but LOL at some of the maps. I mean, go play on some of the sc1 maps that have been converted, every one of them is bigger than any map in the 1v1 pool As a terran player i acutally find TvP tougher than TvZ on alot of the maps. P has alot of abusive/annoying/potentially early game win options but as the game progresses any toss ground army just MELTS in any confrontation. Hellion drops are also ridiculously damaging and good. For me the hardest part of TvP is making sure I don't fall behind from anything in the early stages and to keep an eye out for toss tech switches. I don't really use MM much in this matchup, unless my opponent opened with a starport build. So yea, I do think Terran currently has the advantage on the blizzard map pool in high level games, but I have a lot of Terran friends that would disagree... | ||
HalfAmazing
Netherlands402 Posts
p.s. lulz. | ||
arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On May 27 2010 23:06 gh0st- wrote: Hello there! I am also a Protoss player and top 5 in the diamond league. I would like to give you some advice versus the match-up against Terran but first let me tell you something. Starcraft 2 boils down to the basics! Its not about unit vs unit while it surely does matter to an extent. Take my friend for example, he plays Starcraft 2 casually and I could sure beat him with only my stalkers versus his immortals. I said no rush 15 minutes let him pump his immortals while my stalkers, who take 50 damage from Immortals, are also being pumped and I beat him. It goes down to the old saying that "Take a rich man and strip all his money, he will eventually get it back. Take a poor man and give him millions, he will eventually lose it all". To answer your question lets first go back to the basics. At the start of every match I want you to emphasize on your build. Are you doing the same build every game? If you are not, why not? When you build your pylon do you have 40 minerals? Make that pylon so that after you build it, you have 0 minerals. Do you get supply blocked sometimes? Do you build units and harass with your probe? These are just a few questions that you should pay careful attention to. You have to be consistent on your builds because these small things are the things that separate the PROS and the AMATEURS. How do you think top players in the world consistently stay on top? If these guys are PROS, how come copying exactly their strategy doesn't put you in the #1 Diamond League? It boils down to the basics. These small difference turn into something big over time. Strategy: IN ALL 1v1 MAPS (only 2 base location spawns), always get a 10-gate. ** I justify this because you want to open up with a fast stalker harass or defense against reaper. BUILD ORDER - 9 Pylon (send probe to build pylon at about 70 minerals near your nexus) ** send this pylon probe to scout for enemy. If he has a barracks building, then he is going reapers or fast marauders with concussive shells. If he has a supply depot and building a barracks that means he is NOT going reapers anytime soon. Just check his base if he has any barracks in it or if its building. If there is not, then he is rushing reapers near your base or marauders. Both are deadly as they can kite all your units. Also if he doesn't have any vaspene geysers, that means you can rule out reapers/marauders early-game. - 1 Probe - 10 Gateway - 2 probes (chrono boost) - 13 Assimilator - 2 probes (chrono boost; yes do it again) - Cybernetics whenever Gateway is up - 1 probe - 16 Pylon - 2 probes (chrono boost) We want to summon our stalker (chrono boost) ASAP along with researching Warp Gates ASAP. Depending on your scouting of your 9 pylon probe, you will do one of the following: 1) Rally your gateway (summoning a stalker) to enemy base. Do this if no early vaspene or early barracks. 2) Rally your gateway to your mineral line. Do this if you suspect reaper harass. As soon as stalker builds, build another stalker and chrono boost it. Your stalker will see one of the following. You will either see a Barracks with Tech Lab or a naked Barracks. Sometimes you might even scout a factory or another barracks. DO THE FOLLOWING: If you see a barracks that is naked, send another stalker into his base and keep pumping units. Harass his supply depots/marines that come out to defend. Kill the SCVs that repair. Try to bust in his base. In the mean time you will be transitioning to a 4-gate Warp. Focus your chrono to your Warp Gate research now. When its about 70%, build 3 more Gateways. ** ITS CRUCIAL TO ALWAYS BUILD PROBES AT YOUR NEXUS. AT LEAST (1) PROBE MUST BE BUILDING AT ALL TIMES. Proxy pylon near his base. Send a volley of stalkers. If there are some marauders, match 1 zealot vs his marauder to tank the damage so your stalkers don't get demolished. Keep pressuring his front. Get a few sentries if you are in excess of gas. Guardian shield up. Forcefield only if you can block his untis from running away. This will destroy anyone who is teching to tanks. Now lets rewind back in time to the first stalker. Lets say your first stalker arrives at his base and HE DOES have a marauder or two. This is a signal to send about 2-3 more stalkers and dance around his supply depots. This will force him to go more marauders. Perfect. We transition to a 3-gate and 1-robo build. Lets say you weren't able to scout his 3-4 barracks with tech labs with mass marauders because you thought he was going tanks and your stalker volley gets demolished. Lets say we already made a 4-gate without a robo. Don't BUILD a robotics. You cannot upkeep 4 gateways pumping constant units, probes in nexus and another robotics bay. Build a Twilight Council instead and research Hallucination at your Cybernetics. This allows you to blink stalkers and use hallucinated phoenix to scout. Also get Charge from zealots. Basically same build as above except we are not going to be as aggressive. Always keep your resources to 0 minerals and 0 vaspene. Pump up zealots and sentries at the same time. Then stalkers. Then zealots and sentries. Your first robo should be an observer chrono boosted. I mean really this is the general idea of the build. Always assume drops with MMM. Always assume banshees. Always assume reapers in your base. Its pretty much common sense as far as the game goes. If you can't penetrate his front, get a gold expansion as "bait" for him to get out. If you lose it then you can hit his base or at least tell him to come out. If by any means he is outproducing you with a "bigger" force then you are doing wrong with your macro. ive been goign 13 gate and mostly blaming terran imbalance, and i just did this and wow i had enough units to hold off like every push he made thats pretty great | ||
Wayem
France455 Posts
As I don't want to make another topic about PvT, I just post here so I can get help about it. I usually go 10 gate robo and I have A LOT of problems against terran since the beginning of the beta. Here is my last game on battle net. I know i made a blunder at the beggining with the stalker and I should not have push. My micro is not good and I try hard to split my army against EMP but it is so so hard... I am in diamond league, currently 7/1 due to this game but I am not very good as you will see. Tanks for any feedback, I would really appreciate it. | ||
AlliNPreFlop
59 Posts
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starcraft911
Korea (South)1263 Posts
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
On May 28 2010 00:22 m3rciless wrote: A) Then play terran and go pro, you crybaby B) HT. The vikings are wasted resources if the P doesn't go air, so i would even say chargelot sentry stalker would work, but with HT, its pretty much guaranteed. C) Oh and yeah, The biggest imbalance since the start of the beta has been P >> T, from the mouth of blizzard's stats. I doubt that reducing stim and shields by 50/50 swung it so far in the other direction. A)He probably would, you terran noob. B)High templar are too much of an investment, and fragile, Plus emp takes them out. Marauders stop zealots from being as effective, and their higher HP allows the high DPS of the marines to be more effective, especially against zealots that have 80HP. C)Protoss versus Terran was slightly imbalanced at the beginning of beta, but by patch 6-7 Protoss was perfectly balanced with Terran. D)I'm a random player, and you just enjoy the easy wins. Play Warcraft 3 if you want to have unfair advantages. | ||
Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
Not sure what my win rate is against Terran, but the aggressive ones always stomp me. The ones that bunker down and camp let me tech to whatever I want, and then it feels like I'm in for a good match. | ||
bargaw
Poland36 Posts
Storm have shitty range, he'll just move back and you'll be left with oom Templars. | ||
Shizuru~
Malaysia1676 Posts
On May 28 2010 00:28 Duelist wrote: So i took the liberty of picking two great players, and a battle between a protoss and a terran army. And used the SC2 unit tester map to calculate costs of the units involved. I chose TLO vs NonY of the HDH invitationals, the battle can be seen here. It will skipp right to the middle of the game, so if you didn't see the game don't watch it ![]() TLO's army: 17 marines, 11 Marauders, 3 ghosts total cost: 2400m / 725 g / 45 supply NonY's army: 12 Zealots, 3 immortals, 7 stalkers, 3 sentries total cost: 2975m / 950g / 56 supply Results? 10 Marines, 6 marauders and 1 ghost left, all but 1 immortal and 2 stalkers almost dead survived. and your point is? | ||
Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On May 28 2010 01:37 bargaw wrote: GL teching to HT. Storm have shitty range, he'll just move back and you'll be left with oom Templars. Its got a range of 9. How is that shitty? | ||
Lunares
United States909 Posts
Something I see a lot of toss players do that they shouldn't is have all their immortals next to each other. Yes I will probably have enough ghosts to spam emp over your entire army but still don't make it easy for me. If I am going extremely heavy on marauder/tank then go void rays. Without marines vikings will melt to void rays if you micro them correctly, i.e. charge them somehow (either off of a tank or rocks or a building or your own unit). Pheonix are also very useful if they don't have a lot of AA to graviton beam tanks and then move more stalkers in. if they are bio heavy with just a few tanks then you should be going colossi or HT. Terran armies are definitely defeatable as toss. If they are just turtling and massing then you should have 3-4 bases to their 2. You have warpgates you can just insta spawn an army if you lose your first battle and then his ghosts won't have much energy now. A toss with a macro advantage over a terran shouldn't lose to much besides a timing push. | ||
arb
Noobville17920 Posts
The fact that terran shit is so strong that nony lost a much much higher cost army while terran was left with most all of his units still alive? did you even read the post? | ||
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