EPTI cant win any single game vs toss or zerg - Page 6
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Hier
2391 Posts
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pyr0ma5ta
United States458 Posts
Rauders + Thor vs Zerg. EMP all day long vs Toss. | ||
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Rathorne
United States20 Posts
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Uranium
United States1077 Posts
edit: I think I got trolled. | ||
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Darthturtle
United States718 Posts
On May 16 2010 05:17 Rathorne wrote: Sigh. OK, so I just checked the replays (only 2) that Darthturtle suggest I'd check out. I wonder how you could've gone to the page I linked, and then completely miss the stuff labeled TvP, and instead download an unrelated replay pack. | ||
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j3d
United Kingdom34 Posts
and for muta, thor is your answer, with hellions to back it up against lings. (dont forget you can repair them too...) but seriously, why hasn't this been locked yet? o.O | ||
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Rathorne
United States20 Posts
Only Darthturtle tried to help. No one else did anything, except complain at my pleas for a few good replays or practice games against Protoss as Terran. Please prove me wrong, and help if you wouldn't mind. | ||
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Talia
Germany64 Posts
On May 16 2010 03:41 AeonFlux wrote: also if he dosnt build muta viking are useless cas they need to land to attack and landed its worst If the Zerg doesn't build air units he is screwed because you can easily snipe his Overlords | ||
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Rathorne
United States20 Posts
Perhaps if I work on my base build, and make it harder for void rays to charge up on my buildings I can counter more effectively with Marines. | ||
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s031720
Sweden383 Posts
Always build a few marines when playing P. If you scout VR coming, then make sure to build even more and get Stim as quickly as you can. But you should be fine anyway.(remember, toss had to tech pretty hard to get VRs to start with, so can you hold it off you are pretty well off. Counteraggression is a good alternative so hit him with helions for instance. Be sure to scout first as he may have walled-off completely. Then just tech and prepare for expanding.) Have the marines positioned pretty central, away from the edges of the base. When the VR attack, run our marines up under them and focus them down. They will retreat. Then move your marines back to the middle again. Rince, repeat. Thats it. Keep doing this as long as it takes to get other stuff going for you. WIth EMP you will kill the VRs instead of scaring them away, so thats a good option. | ||
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AeonFlux
Ukraine101 Posts
If the Zerg doesn't build air units he is screwed because you can easily snipe his Overlords no, even queen can couner viking very easily. Perhaps if I work on my base build, and make it harder for void rays to charge up on my buildings I can counter more effectively with Marines. no. if u place buildings too close its worst u can do. the best way is to place buildings randomly (wide formation). cas it gives your marines more manuverability. right, i mean if they got roach muta, that changes things. Luckily it is a lot easier to scout Zerg and you have a lot more time to do so. If you see Roaches, make sure to make more Marauders. building 1-2 helions is waste. cas if theres muta i d could be betttre to have 4 rines instead of helion. the same with roach. so if terran has every game start with bad unit composition (building helion each game is bad if theres fast muta or roach). it means next: if zerg goes fast muta u can fight it and be a bit worse (cas viking too bad vs muta). BUT. when u built two heilons and theres fast myta u a in MUCH worse position cas u needed marines. it means u lose 100% games to fast muta and it means helion opening is not good. also this mean that u have less marauders and zerg can kill u even with roach against marauders (cas u lost time in game start not building maraduers when he can spam roach he needz just 1 building for it when u for mass marauder need 5 rax). | ||
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AeonFlux
Ukraine101 Posts
On May 16 2010 05:55 s031720 wrote: OK. Counter: Always build a few marines when playing P. If you scout VR coming, then make sure to build even more and get Stim as quickly as you can. But you should be fine anyway.(remember, toss had to tech pretty hard to get VRs to start with, so can you hold it off you are pretty well off. Counteraggression is a good alternative so hit him with helions for instance. Be sure to scout first as he may have walled-off completely. Then just tech and prepare for expanding.) Have the marines positioned pretty central, away from the edges of the base. When the VR attack, run our marines up under them and focus them down. They will retreat. Then move your marines back to the middle again. Rince, repeat. PXAXAXAXAXA. so i see ONE void ray and must make tonne of marines just to survive and then die to any option toss choses (colosses or zealot/stalker/sentry push). and also i have to attack him with helions which just die to stalkerz xaxaxaxax omg.. Thats it. Keep doing this as long as it takes to get other stuff going for you. WIth EMP you will kill the VRs instead of scaring them away, so thats a good option. xaxaxa so u have to sit at base all game with marines in center of it very cool and balanced.. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
The key to holding off VRs with Marines is not letting those VRs charge up. Static turrets work well for this, too. Even vikings will seriously struggle if those VRs have pre-charged to full power. Remember though, that 2 vikings is the cost of 1 VR - they're balanced appropriately. Don't let those VRs charge up on your refinery/buildings. Don't be so close to the rocks that VRs can charge up on rocks and still be charged up when they VRs might have decent full speed but they have terrible acceleration without the Flux Vanes upgrade. Don't be afraid to put a reactor on your factory and switch your starport to it to get enough vikings fast enough to counter the heavy VRs, and you can land them after to help with the ground push - they do reasonably well vs protoss ground with their fixed 14 damage and pretty fast fire rate. (watch out for immortals though - but that's unlikely if they have vikings unless they're way outmacroing you.) If your vikings win you air superiority, you've just nullified their entire stargate tech, and since your vikings can back up ground forces in a ground push, you're in a good position to sweep them. | ||
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TossFloss
Canada606 Posts
On May 16 2010 05:01 AeonFlux wrote: paxaxax.. so u didnt face that strategy and u learn me how to counter it and also call me trol etc? Oh god  You also asked for help in PvZ. I'm won't connect the dots for you. (and how u didnt face it when i face it 75% of games?) We're obviously playing different players *duh*. Still waiting for that edit. | ||
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Rathorne
United States20 Posts
Thank you sir, that was helpful. I think one of my big problems was the way my base was built and not being prepared for incoming Void Rays. Because once their charged...*shudders* they are mighty strong. | ||
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
in the meantime, how did you get to plat if you can't beat toss or zerg? cause i've never played 5 straight games vs terran. | ||
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Wire
United States494 Posts
Secondly, on topic.. Vs Zerg: There's a really nice build you can do that does involve good scouting but its very effective vs zerg. Essentially you do your 10 supply 12 rax 13 gas, then when ur rax is done u make 1 marine and start orbital, tacking on second gas at next 75 mins. of course get next supply and when u start factory you start reactor on rax. swap when done and u can pump dual hellions while you start your startport. when starport is half way one of two things needs to have occured, because you will have seen one of the 3 most likely following builds: ling-baneling mass: ezpz. at this point your wall should be supply supply fac with rax right next to it and starport too. this is a very heavy wall and will not get demolished by banelings given good repair. if you have a hole tack on a ebay for good measure, continue making hellions and techlab your rax to swap with starport for banshees, this should lead to gg if not then expo. roach mass: this is a little more difficult to deal with since neither marines nor hellions do good damage versus roach. you can either 1. techlab your rax but not swap after port is done, make marauders on that rax and delay your banshee on port by making techlab from scratch when port is done. the delay will still allow you to get two marauders and a banshee out in time to deal with roach rush. you should be able to hold it off with heavy wall (see above) and then continue banshee production, tacking on a second starport for dual banshees if this aggression continues. hydra tech: this is much easier to deal with. get techlab on rax, swap with port, make a banshee while researching cloak, continuing hellion production. stop banshee production at 2 banshees if he starts getting overseers and spore colonies, start a second fact, move first fact to techlab on port and port to reactor. pump 2 vikings while getting hellion upgrades and making a tank. secure yourself on two bases because hellion really burn through hydras when critical mass, harass with your viking and banshee, harass with your hellion, and mech up. muta tech: this puts you in a pinch. you need to scout this well, especially if you see lair tech then you need to constantly scan or scout because the minute you see a spire go down you need to put down an armory asap. swap your rax to your reactor, swap fact to the techlab you just made with rax. with your starport at completion, make 1 viking and pump some marines. even if your thor does not get out in time to deal with the initial 6 mutalisks, your marine and viking force should deter them long enough to get one thor out, by which time his muta harass will become moot. expo and mech up. notice at each stage you need to 1. scout well and 2. be able to react. pure marauders gets you nowhere, this isn't patch 4 anymore. As for v protoss, might i suggest the Gretorp build, also the ghost marine build. this build is a fast expand that counters immortal rush, 3 gate warp rush, and voidrays. look it up i'm not going to explain it all to you. the search button on the TL.net site should help GL | ||
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
On May 16 2010 06:20 Wire wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Um...you seem very aggressive mr. OP. don't get so angry its just a game... Secondly, on topic.. Vs Zerg: There's a really nice build you can do that does involve good scouting but its very effective vs zerg. Essentially you do your 10 supply 12 rax 13 gas, then when ur rax is done u make 1 marine and start orbital, tacking on second gas at next 75 mins. of course get next supply and when u start factory you start reactor on rax. swap when done and u can pump dual hellions while you start your startport. when starport is half way one of two things needs to have occured, because you will have seen one of the 3 most likely following builds: ling-baneling mass: ezpz. at this point your wall should be supply supply fac with rax right next to it and starport too. this is a very heavy wall and will not get demolished by banelings given good repair. if you have a hole tack on a ebay for good measure, continue making hellions and techlab your rax to swap with starport for banshees, this should lead to gg if not then expo. roach mass: this is a little more difficult to deal with since neither marines nor hellions do good damage versus roach. you can either 1. techlab your rax but not swap after port is done, make marauders on that rax and delay your banshee on port by making techlab from scratch when port is done. the delay will still allow you to get two marauders and a banshee out in time to deal with roach rush. you should be able to hold it off with heavy wall (see above) and then continue banshee production, tacking on a second starport for dual banshees if this aggression continues. hydra tech: this is much easier to deal with. get techlab on rax, swap with port, make a banshee while researching cloak, continuing hellion production. stop banshee production at 2 banshees if he starts getting overseers and spore colonies, start a second fact, move first fact to techlab on port and port to reactor. pump 2 vikings while getting hellion upgrades and making a tank. secure yourself on two bases because hellion really burn through hydras when critical mass, harass with your viking and banshee, harass with your hellion, and mech up. muta tech: this puts you in a pinch. you need to scout this well, especially if you see lair tech then you need to constantly scan or scout because the minute you see a spire go down you need to put down an armory asap. swap your rax to your reactor, swap fact to the techlab you just made with rax. with your starport at completion, make 1 viking and pump some marines. even if your thor does not get out in time to deal with the initial 6 mutalisks, your marine and viking force should deter them long enough to get one thor out, by which time his muta harass will become moot. expo and mech up. notice at each stage you need to 1. scout well and 2. be able to react. pure marauders gets you nowhere, this isn't patch 4 anymore. As for v protoss, might i suggest the Gretorp build, also the ghost marine build. this build is a fast expand that counters immortal rush, 3 gate warp rush, and voidrays. look it up i'm not going to explain it all to you. the search button on the TL.net site should help GL i love TL for the manner and dedication of people such as yourself. GJ edit: added 2 spoiler tags, then removed 1 | ||
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Smikis
Lithuania117 Posts
are you seriously loosing to mutas when going mass marines+ ravens.. which is very strong tactic if executed right.. ill take that ur off 1 base.. and zerg is 3 basing mutas.. cuz there is no way mutas can beat marines.. if ur going mass marines.. yes mutas are strong but you need a lot to beat a lot of marines.. and if you just fail so hard on mutas.. when running aa marines.. get 2 thors.. rapes mutas.. + banelings.. just keep your 1-2 thors infront and micro marines.. it will take over 10 banelings to kill 1 thor.. more like 15 banelings to kill 400 hp thor.. so yeh. thats counter too.. | ||
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