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Active: 4038 users

I cant win any single game vs toss or zerg

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AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 18:37:13
May 15 2010 18:34 GMT
#1
But i win almost all games with terran in platinum.

If u need prove heres replay pack of all my fucken games. (12.15 Mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/?ygwkhijtgkn

vs Toss
I treied everything.
1. Maraderz push? just defend with zealots till void ray come.
2. Mass rines? killed by all.
3. Banshee? Void ray killes my base faster then i kill his base.
4. Tankz? Immortalz and void ray pwn all.

vs Zerg
1. Mass rines? banelings
2. Banshee? Muta
3. RInes+ravens? banelings+muta
4. Marauders? mass zergling.

etc

BUT
i win any game with terran just by spamming banshee.

so i wanna say that TvT sure is balanced and there just skill decides. but tvz and tvp is broken cas TWO FUCKING UNITS

1. void ray. why is was strengthen? it was good before pacth. now its IMBA.
2. Muta and banelings too strong.


BUT BEFORE PATCH i hadnt any problem with toss cas void ray was not so imba.
sure i had trobles with zerg but at least i pwned toss and terrran so i had good position in platinum.

btw i m 50 th place in platinum now
Synwave
Profile Joined July 2009
United States2803 Posts
May 15 2010 18:37 GMT
#2
You seem to have forgotten the Viking and the Tank exist.
♞Nerdrage is the cause of global warming♞
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 18:42:41
May 15 2010 18:41 GMT
#3
Viking die to muta. ALL NOW THAT.
marines can defend is game start but useless later.
also if he dosnt build muta viking are useless cas they need to land to attack and landed its worst unit in game (dies to roaches and stalkerz and to lings and to any unit)

viking can defend vs void ray but then toss killez u by land cas u have USELESS viknig when he has very cool void ray. also void ray can kill vikingz some times. (even not heated)
Ryps
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Romania2740 Posts
May 15 2010 18:43 GMT
#4
watch some replays http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=112991
but some common strats are

vs protoss marauder/marine/ghost/dropship
vs zerg hellions/marauders or ghost/marine/marauder (ghost used for sniping)
Darthturtle
Profile Joined May 2009
United States718 Posts
May 15 2010 18:45 GMT
#5
Do you ever get ghosts?

EMP the protoss units, and snipe the banelings. Grats, you just solved both your problems.
Synwave
Profile Joined July 2009
United States2803 Posts
May 15 2010 18:47 GMT
#6
On May 16 2010 03:41 AeonFlux wrote:
Viking die to muta. ALL NOW THAT.
marines can defend is game start but useless later.
also if he dosnt build muta viking are useless cas they need to land to attack and landed its worst unit in game (dies to roaches and stalkerz and to lings and to any unit)

viking can defend vs void ray but then toss killez u by land cas u have USELESS viknig when he has very cool void ray. also void ray can kill vikingz some times. (even not heated)


Im sorry I cant follow your logic.
It consists of: Some units are better vs other units, therefore any unit I build is bad because he has a unit that is better than it.
Guess what, some of your units are better than others of his. So by your logic any unit he builds is bad because you have a unit that is better than it.

This is a shallow qq thread, I really shouldn't have replied to it.
♞Nerdrage is the cause of global warming♞
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 18:49 GMT
#7
WHAT?????? MARAUDER? when i make 5th marauder void ray alrdy come. how i kill void ray with 5 maraudez? sure i pushed him so i kill 4 zealots (not losing anything) but then void ray killed all my army.

helion marauder vs zerg is NOOBISH SHIT. muta just killez all.

okay i make EMP but then toss kileez me with 1/2 of his shield cas i lost all money for fucken ghost and ghost academy.

snipe banelings with ghosta?? AXAXAXAXAXA the most stuped advice i ever seen. they ll kill u before u time R two times
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9808 Posts
May 15 2010 18:49 GMT
#8
if you're looking for an all-around unit that kills every unit, you're going to have to change races...
boomer hands
Bair
Profile Joined May 2010
United States698 Posts
May 15 2010 18:50 GMT
#9
I am going to assume english is not your first language and pass on grammar comments.

Stop trying to build one unit comp to beat an entire race. It sounds like you are getting scouted and you are not scouting back. Aside from the marines + raven you mentioned, all those examples were your units getting killed by what counters them. It is meant to work this way.

In ZvT, put early pressure on with marauders/marines. If they get that expansion going and it is productive, you lose. Zerg is now a pure macro race, and the more you let the macro, the harder you get hit.

You need to scout more often and/or be more aggressive from the sounds of it. If I scout you going MMM and you give me 5 free minutes of building, I will have a nice mass of banelings to wipe out your investment. And since I have 2 bases and you have one, losing that ball puts you so far behind I can pretty much end the game how I want.
In Roaches I Rust.
TraumisT
Profile Joined April 2010
United States37 Posts
May 15 2010 18:53 GMT
#10
On May 16 2010 03:34 AeonFlux wrote:

BUT
i win any game with terran just by spamming banshee.

so i wanna say that TvT sure is balanced and there just skill decides. but tvz and tvp is broken cas TWO FUCKING UNITS

Skill is spamming 1 unit. seriously dude you can make a list for all of their units too and the counters you have for them
Ryps
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Romania2740 Posts
May 15 2010 18:55 GMT
#11
On May 16 2010 03:49 AeonFlux wrote:
WHAT?????? MARAUDER? when i make 5th marauder void ray alrdy come. how i kill void ray with 5 maraudez? sure i pushed him so i kill 4 zealots (not losing anything) but then void ray killed all my army.

helion marauder vs zerg is NOOBISH SHIT. muta just killez all.

okay i make EMP but then toss kileez me with 1/2 of his shield cas i lost all money for fucken ghost and ghost academy.

snipe banelings with ghosta?? AXAXAXAXAXA the most stuped advice i ever seen. they ll kill u before u time R two times


If you scouted protoss and he has 2 gas going for voidray just make a bunch of marines and tech to viking for long range or make 2 turrets. voidrays arent that hard to defend.

vs banelings if he is 1 base just make double wall in your base. late game you dont have a good counter except ravens missle or kite ( which is hard with infestors fungal on you)

Bair
Profile Joined May 2010
United States698 Posts
May 15 2010 19:01 GMT
#12
On May 16 2010 03:53 TraumisT wrote:

Skill is spamming 1 unit. seriously dude you can make a list for all of their units too and the counters you have for them


Making carriers is a useful skill toi have.
In Roaches I Rust.
Darthturtle
Profile Joined May 2009
United States718 Posts
May 15 2010 19:04 GMT
#13
On May 16 2010 03:49 AeonFlux wrote:
WHAT?????? MARAUDER? when i make 5th marauder void ray alrdy come. how i kill void ray with 5 maraudez? sure i pushed him so i kill 4 zealots (not losing anything) but then void ray killed all my army.

helion marauder vs zerg is NOOBISH SHIT. muta just killez all.

okay i make EMP but then toss kileez me with 1/2 of his shield cas i lost all money for fucken ghost and ghost academy.

snipe banelings with ghosta?? AXAXAXAXAXA the most stuped advice i ever seen. they ll kill u before u time R two times



Learn to make more SCVs. You can easily afford Ghost/Marine off one base. And then locate the shift key on your keyboard and learn how to queue up snipes.

And you sound like you're trying to win the game with just one single unit type. Get marines to back up your marauders. Get marines to back up your ghosts.

Learn to macro. You're allowed to build more than one or two barracks.
ramen247
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States1256 Posts
May 15 2010 19:05 GMT
#14
On May 16 2010 03:55 PaD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 03:49 AeonFlux wrote:
WHAT?????? MARAUDER? when i make 5th marauder void ray alrdy come. how i kill void ray with 5 maraudez? sure i pushed him so i kill 4 zealots (not losing anything) but then void ray killed all my army.

helion marauder vs zerg is NOOBISH SHIT. muta just killez all.

okay i make EMP but then toss kileez me with 1/2 of his shield cas i lost all money for fucken ghost and ghost academy.

snipe banelings with ghosta?? AXAXAXAXAXA the most stuped advice i ever seen. they ll kill u before u time R two times


If you scouted protoss and he has 2 gas going for voidray just make a bunch of marines and tech to viking for long range or make 2 turrets. voidrays arent that hard to defend.

vs banelings if he is 1 base just make double wall in your base. late game you dont have a good counter except ravens missle or kite ( which is hard with infestors fungal on you)




sry but against void rays what do i do if he cannons -> mass void ray spam?
i hate this ugly firebat. i want a marine.
yiff
Profile Joined April 2010
United States63 Posts
May 15 2010 19:08 GMT
#15
I'm assuming this is a troll thread from the sheer amount of times he swears and uses the nerd rage caps lock button. Seriously..if you're having this much trouble with this..SC2 is NOT the game for you.
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
May 15 2010 19:09 GMT
#16
You just listed the units and named a counter for it. That's fucking stupid every unit has a counter.
Mix units to cover for others weaknesses man.
If he has void rays and you have marauders then increase marine production and get ghosts.
MadJack
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Peru357 Posts
May 15 2010 19:11 GMT
#17
On May 16 2010 03:34 AeonFlux wrote:
BUT
i win any game with terran just by spamming banshee.

so i wanna say that TvT sure is balanced and there just skill decides. but tvz and tvp is broken


I "think" theres something wrong with those 2 sentences...

"Im terran. I lose to Protoss and Zerg, so those matches are imba, but since I can spam banshees and win in TvT, that match is totally balanced and full of skill"

lol
이제동 화이팅! / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26jjD3ro-Xk /
Darthturtle
Profile Joined May 2009
United States718 Posts
May 15 2010 19:13 GMT
#18
On May 16 2010 04:05 ramen247 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 03:55 PaD wrote:
On May 16 2010 03:49 AeonFlux wrote:
WHAT?????? MARAUDER? when i make 5th marauder void ray alrdy come. how i kill void ray with 5 maraudez? sure i pushed him so i kill 4 zealots (not losing anything) but then void ray killed all my army.

helion marauder vs zerg is NOOBISH SHIT. muta just killez all.

okay i make EMP but then toss kileez me with 1/2 of his shield cas i lost all money for fucken ghost and ghost academy.

snipe banelings with ghosta?? AXAXAXAXAXA the most stuped advice i ever seen. they ll kill u before u time R two times


If you scouted protoss and he has 2 gas going for voidray just make a bunch of marines and tech to viking for long range or make 2 turrets. voidrays arent that hard to defend.

vs banelings if he is 1 base just make double wall in your base. late game you dont have a good counter except ravens missle or kite ( which is hard with infestors fungal on you)




sry but against void rays what do i do if he cannons -> mass void ray spam?


Void rays off one base, and he's going cannons? How's he going to push out to break a Marine contain? Just grab all the watchtowers and keep an eye on the edges of the map, then kill his rays mid-flight if he tries to go for your base. Void rays and cannons means he's probably broke and wont be able to tech colossus or templar too effectively.
Jugan
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1566 Posts
May 15 2010 19:14 GMT
#19
On May 16 2010 03:45 Darthturtle wrote:
Do you ever get ghosts?

EMP the protoss units, and snipe the banelings. Grats, you just solved both your problems.


Yes, you can EMP protoss units. However, getting ghost tech to "snipe banelings" is the worst idea ever lol. It's too expensive and too ineffective. It's better to just get tanks and make a slow push.
Even a Savior couldn't fix all problems. www.twitch.tv/xJugan
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
May 15 2010 19:17 GMT
#20
Why is anyone at all taking this mudak seriously lol
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
SiN]
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States540 Posts
May 15 2010 19:18 GMT
#21
Vs P
2 barracks -> Ghost academy -> Expand when your army consists of 2 marauders, 7 marines, and 1 ghost. Build more barracks and produce marine, ghost, and a few marauders. When the P gets HT, get tanks and hellions.

Vs Z
1 barracks -> reaper bunker rush the Zerg's expansion -> hellion + igniter -> expand. From here, get 2-3 thors, marines, marauders, and medivacs.

Also, if you win by just massing banshees then you might want to switch up your TvT because, when you start playing against good people, that won't work.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 19:19 GMT
#22
On May 16 2010 03:47 Synwave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 03:41 AeonFlux wrote:
Viking die to muta. ALL NOW THAT.
marines can defend is game start but useless later.
also if he dosnt build muta viking are useless cas they need to land to attack and landed its worst unit in game (dies to roaches and stalkerz and to lings and to any unit)

viking can defend vs void ray but then toss killez u by land cas u have USELESS viknig when he has very cool void ray. also void ray can kill vikingz some times. (even not heated)


Im sorry I cant follow your logic.
It consists of: Some units are better vs other units, therefore any unit I build is bad because he has a unit that is better than it.
Guess what, some of your units are better than others of his. So by your logic any unit he builds is bad because you have a unit that is better than it.

This is a shallow qq thread, I really shouldn't have replied to it.


U STUPID?

i just say zerg has HARD COUNTER to vikins and marines. when rines are SOFT counter to muta.

void ray is counter to ANY terran unit exept viking. and viking is SOFT counter to void ray (or even not counter).
Darthturtle
Profile Joined May 2009
United States718 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 19:20:44
May 15 2010 19:19 GMT
#23
On May 16 2010 04:14 Jugan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 03:45 Darthturtle wrote:
Do you ever get ghosts?

EMP the protoss units, and snipe the banelings. Grats, you just solved both your problems.


Yes, you can EMP protoss units. However, getting ghost tech to "snipe banelings" is the worst idea ever lol. It's too expensive and too ineffective. It's better to just get tanks and make a slow push.

Not if you're getting the ghosts to emp infestors anyway. Would I spend 25 energy to prevent huge damage to my bio troops? You bet your ass I would.

Are we talking about rushing for ghosts, though? Then no, I'd probably deal with banelings some other way. Ghosts get into your army when you need them to deal with other units too.
Engdrew
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States890 Posts
May 15 2010 19:20 GMT
#24
this thread is full of fail lolll

"50th place platinum"? first, to address the issue of ranking, it's a much more accurate description to put your ELO when people need to judge your skill level. for all we know you could have been placed in a brand new division for platinum. secondly, are you really platinum...? this really seems like a fat troll because i wouldnt identify the matchup problems you have as problems platinum players would have...

your spelling pisses me off too... "cas"? LOL
"I treied everything."
stop nerd raging in your posts...AXXAXAXAXAX? hahahaha

for some real advice...it's been mostly said already...work on your unit composition. i think the key to making that right composition means constant scouting, scanning, and predicting what your opponent will build. then have a good mix of units. next, SC2 shouldnt be a one attack vs one attack game, you can win battles on many fronts, so stop thinking about just the big battle. stick it through and try new things, thats the only way to get better
.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 19:24:31
May 15 2010 19:23 GMT
#25
what u say IS ALL SHIT have u watched EURO VS ASIA games when Check vs Strelok spammed Muta and Banelings and totally destroyed terran.

ELO is for noobz.. if i play 1 game in 3 days how could i have big elo? u shd learn theme which says that ELO raiting is shit.
Engdrew
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States890 Posts
May 15 2010 19:24 GMT
#26
if youre going to say "what u say IS ALL SHIT" then why post in these forums...?

im seriously just waiting for a mod now hahaha
.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 19:25 GMT
#27
On May 16 2010 04:24 thunddr wrote:
if youre going to say "what u say IS ALL SHIT" then why post in these forums...?

im seriously just waiting for a mod now hahaha


i just want blizzard to fix imbalance
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 19:25 GMT
#28
I agree with Aeon. Void Ray's are OP. Period.

Please, don't tell me to counter with Marines. It doesn't work. The only unit the Terrans have that can effectively counter Void Rays (WITH Micro, so not just straight up) are Vikings. Which leaves you open to a strong ground timing attack by Protoss.

Also, it is extremely hard to scout Protoss and see if they are going VoidRays. A lot of the players simply Proxy their Stargate somewhere on the map and go to down.

Turrets are quite expensive, and put you in a defensive position. 2 VoidRays also crush a Turret and will be able to exploit any weak spots with easy and literally MELT your entire army.

Finally, the threat of VoidRays is so great that it forces me to make Vikings, which is bad if Protoss switches to Ground Pounding units. Or, decided to simply hold back and pump 3-4 Void Rays and simply overwhelm me because I did not cont to pump more vikings. Its a real pain in the butt.

Again, Marines are trash against Void Rays (fully charged, which is easy to do btw).
Engdrew
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States890 Posts
May 15 2010 19:26 GMT
#29
regarding "imbalance"

please listen to day9 daily's...i think theyll do you wonders.
.
expendable
Profile Joined May 2009
United States17 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 19:35:38
May 15 2010 19:27 GMT
#30

U STUPID?

i just say zerg has HARD COUNTER to vikins and marines. when rines are SOFT counter to muta.

void ray is counter to ANY terran unit exept viking. and viking is SOFT counter to void ray (or even not counter).


Ok I'm having a hard time believing this isn't a troll, because obviously other terrans have successfully beat protoss/zerg (in fact they do it pretty close to 50% of the time). Your HARD COUNTER to muta is thor, which can kill 5+ muta by itself. 5 marines can kill a void ray so who cares about soft counter/hard counter BS anyway. Basically the problem is that you refuse to admit the reason behind your loses is not the terran race.

agree with Aeon. Void Ray's are OP. Period.

Please, don't tell me to counter with Marines. It doesn't work. The only unit the Terrans have that can effectively counter Void Rays (WITH Micro, so not just straight up) are Vikings. Which leaves you open to a strong ground timing attack by Protoss.

Also, it is extremely hard to scout Protoss and see if they are going VoidRays. A lot of the players simply Proxy their Stargate somewhere on the map and go to down.

Turrets are quite expensive, and put you in a defensive position. 2 VoidRays also crush a Turret and will be able to exploit any weak spots with easy and literally MELT your entire army.

Finally, the threat of VoidRays is so great that it forces me to make Vikings, which is bad if Protoss switches to Ground Pounding units. Or, decided to simply hold back and pump 3-4 Void Rays and simply overwhelm me because I did not cont to pump more vikings. Its a real pain in the butt.

Again, Marines are trash against Void Rays (fully charged, which is easy to do btw).


I used to think VR's were OP too, but they really aren't. They are quite easy to deal with, 5marine+1ghost counters them easily. The real problem in TvP is that P has so many options that lower level Ts have problems scouting and reacting accordingly; T is basically forced to open 3 rax most games (I have found starport+viking builds to be inefficient vs VR and terrible vrs 4gaterobo). All T players should learn to just use their second 50 energy to scan toss - if you don't see 3/4 gate or robo, it is very likely they are going VR.
juggurnot
Profile Joined May 2010
United States14 Posts
May 15 2010 19:29 GMT
#31
I think some one is trolling.
Thats all the ammunition we had!
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 19:33:21
May 15 2010 19:31 GMT
#32
On May 16 2010 04:27 expendable wrote:
Show nested quote +

U STUPID?

i just say zerg has HARD COUNTER to vikins and marines. when rines are SOFT counter to muta.

void ray is counter to ANY terran unit exept viking. and viking is SOFT counter to void ray (or even not counter).



Ok I'm having a hard time believing this isn't a troll


On May 16 2010 04:29 juggurnot wrote:
I think some one is trolling.


why? do you not think there are plenty of genuinely stupid people, such as this fine chap, all over the internet?
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
GoodCat1
Profile Joined May 2009
Israel266 Posts
May 15 2010 19:32 GMT
#33
go ask white-ra for advise in russian xD

cuz i can't understand your english
ZerO FAN~!~!~!
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 19:33 GMT
#34
day9? that noob who lost exebition friendly game to some toss (forgot his name) with 0-3 score? bxaxaxaxax..

terran has 50% win rate cas ZERG AND TOSS WITH WORSE SKILL GET HIGHER IN LADDER. where they meet much more skilled terrans which makes 50% in statistics.
thor is slow useless unit if i have to build it = i lose game cas lost of map control. muta can just fly around and kill everithng exept stupid thor (but when theres more muta they easily kill thor).


i agreew with Rathorne..
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 19:34 GMT
#35
5 Marines vs. 1 Void Ray?

LOL. That is hilarious. If its not charged, maybe. Once its charged your 5 marines mean nothing. Its not like the Protoss will simply allow the Void Ray to die to Marines. He'll move it back, hit/run and recharge shields.

The most success I've had against Protoss is trying to cheese them out by Reaper Rushing them. Otherwise, It's almost a for sure loss. (if they go Void Rays).
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 19:37:39
May 15 2010 19:35 GMT
#36
btw about 50% win of terran.. i thnik most of that wins are 2 proxy rax marine cheese

or probably terran win all games when toss dosnt make void ray (cas higher terran players skill) and lose all games when toss make void rays (u can remember 1st game of some toss vs bratok which he easily won on blisering vs void ray and lost all other games where he didnt use void rays).
yiff
Profile Joined April 2010
United States63 Posts
May 15 2010 19:36 GMT
#37
On May 16 2010 04:33 AeonFlux wrote:
day9? that noob who lost exebition friendly game to some toss (forgot his name) with 0-3 score? bxaxaxaxax..

terran has 50% win rate cas ZERG AND TOSS WITH WORSE SKILL GET HIGHER IN LADDER. where they meet much more skilled terrans which makes 50% in statistics.
thor is slow useless unit if i have to build it = i lose game cas lost of map control. muta can just fly around and kill everithng exept stupid thor (but when theres more muta they easily kill thor).


i agreew with Rathorne..



why is this guy not banned yet...
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
May 15 2010 19:37 GMT
#38
oh look more proof im right
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
May 15 2010 19:37 GMT
#39
On May 16 2010 04:25 AeonFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 04:24 thunddr wrote:
if youre going to say "what u say IS ALL SHIT" then why post in these forums...?

im seriously just waiting for a mod now hahaha


i just want blizzard to fix imbalance

go to battle.net forums, dont troll here :|

if you are asking for HELP, do it politely or no one would like to help you :|
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
splcer
Profile Joined October 2009
United States166 Posts
May 15 2010 19:37 GMT
#40
im sorry but learn how to play dont mass a unit just to counter one unit that u will lose to just put some more in and dont complain especially because there is no imbalance im sorry that your not good
That which grows fast, whithers as rapidly. That which grows slowly, endures
expendable
Profile Joined May 2009
United States17 Posts
May 15 2010 19:39 GMT
#41
On May 16 2010 04:34 Rathorne wrote:
5 Marines vs. 1 Void Ray?

LOL. That is hilarious. If its not charged, maybe. Once its charged your 5 marines mean nothing. Its not like the Protoss will simply allow the Void Ray to die to Marines. He'll move it back, hit/run and recharge shields.

The most success I've had against Protoss is trying to cheese them out by Reaper Rushing them. Otherwise, It's almost a for sure loss. (if they go Void Rays).


lol, the reason the only success you have is through cheesing is because you are too scared of using marine+ghost vs VR. I have made it to 1800+ plat playing only T, and 3rax vs VR is definitely in favor of the T (in fact, unless it is a map like Scrap Station, I think VR is one of the weaker toss openings).
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 19:41:00
May 15 2010 19:40 GMT
#42
There is some epic logic in the OP.

"I can't defend against Void rays, so obviously they must be broken, otherwise I would automatically be able to stop them!"

Wait what`


Also, this is a blog, not a strategic discussion.
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 19:40 GMT
#43
Sure, I can do that.

Can someone please show me a few replays of Platinum Level players, Terran vs. Protoss. Where the Protoss Player goes VoidRays early on and loses to a Terran player?

Perhaps there is something I am missing, but I need some help to find a way to beat Protoss Void Ray openings.

Thank You,
Rathorne
Synwave
Profile Joined July 2009
United States2803 Posts
May 15 2010 19:40 GMT
#44
Considering the number of people still replying to this troll I think Im not the only one bored at work waiting for an install to finish or what not
♞Nerdrage is the cause of global warming♞
Darthturtle
Profile Joined May 2009
United States718 Posts
May 15 2010 19:40 GMT
#45
On May 16 2010 04:25 Rathorne wrote:
I agree with Aeon. Void Ray's are OP. Period.

Please, don't tell me to counter with Marines. It doesn't work. The only unit the Terrans have that can effectively counter Void Rays (WITH Micro, so not just straight up) are Vikings. Which leaves you open to a strong ground timing attack by Protoss.

Also, it is extremely hard to scout Protoss and see if they are going VoidRays. A lot of the players simply Proxy their Stargate somewhere on the map and go to down.

Turrets are quite expensive, and put you in a defensive position. 2 VoidRays also crush a Turret and will be able to exploit any weak spots with easy and literally MELT your entire army.

Finally, the threat of VoidRays is so great that it forces me to make Vikings, which is bad if Protoss switches to Ground Pounding units. Or, decided to simply hold back and pump 3-4 Void Rays and simply overwhelm me because I did not cont to pump more vikings. Its a real pain in the butt.

Again, Marines are trash against Void Rays (fully charged, which is easy to do btw).



There's no kind way to break this to you. If voids are fully charged and in your base, you definitely fucked up somewhere.

I assume you scouted them going voids already. If not, then you've scouted them suspiciously missing tech while gassing hard or low on units. Or something. Because we're assuming you're making a token effort to see what they're doing, and not just waiting to lose.

So, seeing them going voids, you want to catch them before they can get a charge going, or kill them fast. The thing about Voids is that it's really hard to charge all the way to max just shooting marines. Engaging with a bunch of marines against uncharged void rays is so good for Terran. You don't need EMP or Stim or +1, even, but of course they help.

Now, damage control time.

Let's assume the rays are in your base and killing your good shit. This is terribad for you. You're essentially playing to split up all your buildings and float them in separate directions, so that after the voids kill off everything in one direction, they lose their charge moving on. Then you kill them with marines. Then you pray you can hold off the ground push that's coming for your expo. Make some bunkers, I guess.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 19:42 GMT
#46
i m not scared to to mass marines vs void rays cas i did it many times and it dosnt work. btw marine and banshee are my favorite units.
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
May 15 2010 19:43 GMT
#47
This is a horrible thread, and should not have received the attention it has...
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 19:43 GMT
#48
Ghost/Marine opening. I'll give that a try. Have not done that one too much.

Catch22. Come on bud. No reason to hate on me. I'm not just stating that Void Rays are OP because I lose to them. I just dont understand how to beat that P opening. Please help.

Also, I do at least 50% or better against T and I am able to beat Z about 80% of the time or more. Which is insane. In all honesty, I feel like T is too strong against Z, but perhaps I just haven't played against enough Z.

Currently I'm in the top 8, 1640 points.
Bensio
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom621 Posts
May 15 2010 19:44 GMT
#49
On May 16 2010 04:42 AeonFlux wrote:
i m not scared to to mass marines vs void rays cas i did it many times and it dosnt work. btw marine and banshee are my favorite units.


Thats cool, Whats your favourite food?

Seriously, if you want help, be polite.

AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 19:44:52
May 15 2010 19:44 GMT
#50
thats all stupid. void ray has 2.75 move speed and marine have 2.25 move speed so it cant catch void ray. also void ray has speed upgrade. also void ray can regenerate his shield when marine to regenerate need medivac.
yiff
Profile Joined April 2010
United States63 Posts
May 15 2010 19:45 GMT
#51
On May 16 2010 04:44 AeonFlux wrote:
thats all stupid. void ray has 2.75 move speed and marine have 2.25 move speed so it cant catch void ray. also void ray has speed upgrade. also void ray can regenerate his shield when marine to regenerate need medivac.


Seriously..SC2 is not for you.
Ryps
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Romania2740 Posts
May 15 2010 19:45 GMT
#52
On May 16 2010 04:44 AeonFlux wrote:
thats all stupid. void ray has 2.75 move speed and marine have 2.25 move speed so it cant catch void ray. also void ray has speed upgrade. also void ray can regenerate his shield when marine to regenerate need medivac.



There's something called stim that makes voidrays without speed crumble.
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 19:46 GMT
#53
Does someone have a replay or two? I think that would help me quite a lot.

Thanks
TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
May 15 2010 19:46 GMT
#54
On May 16 2010 03:34 AeonFlux wrote:
But i win almost all games with terran in platinum.

If u need prove heres replay pack of all my fucken games. (12.15 Mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/?ygwkhijtgkn
.......


You edit your post. You fix your spelling mistakes. You put some effort into proper style. Afterwards, I may consider helping you.

As my eyes scan through your minefield of misspellings, little explosions go off inside my head. ("treied" "i", "cas")

I don't care how English may not be your mother tongue. I've marked essays from impoverished Chinese grade schoolers whose writing, when contrasted with yours, reads like Shakespeare.
TL Android App Open Source http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=265090
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 19:47 GMT
#55
when marine has stim its too late cas u alrdy lost all map control.
also good toss never allow u to catch him with stim so u ll just kill his sheilds when your rines lose much hp for nothing.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 19:48 GMT
#56
On May 16 2010 04:46 TossFloss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 03:34 AeonFlux wrote:
But i win almost all games with terran in platinum.

If u need prove heres replay pack of all my fucken games. (12.15 Mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/?ygwkhijtgkn
.......


You edit your post. You fix your spelling mistakes. You put some effort into proper style. Afterwards, I may consider helping you.

As my eyes scan through your minefield of misspellings, little explosions go off inside my head. ("treied" "i", "cas")

I don't care how English may not be your mother tongue. I've marked essays from impoverished Chinese grade schoolers whose writing, when contrasted with yours, reads like Shakespeare.


learn russian and we can speak on very cool level
i can speak 2 languages when u can speak only one..
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 19:49 GMT
#57
Yes, but my English is decent enough, I think. Please help me Tossfloss.
yiff
Profile Joined April 2010
United States63 Posts
May 15 2010 19:50 GMT
#58
On May 16 2010 04:48 AeonFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 04:46 TossFloss wrote:
On May 16 2010 03:34 AeonFlux wrote:
But i win almost all games with terran in platinum.

If u need prove heres replay pack of all my fucken games. (12.15 Mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/?ygwkhijtgkn
.......


You edit your post. You fix your spelling mistakes. You put some effort into proper style. Afterwards, I may consider helping you.

As my eyes scan through your minefield of misspellings, little explosions go off inside my head. ("treied" "i", "cas")

I don't care how English may not be your mother tongue. I've marked essays from impoverished Chinese grade schoolers whose writing, when contrasted with yours, reads like Shakespeare.


learn russian and we can speak on very cool level
i can speak 2 languages when u can speak only one..


Can't count english in there..becuase you can't really speak it :O
Darthturtle
Profile Joined May 2009
United States718 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 19:51:21
May 15 2010 19:50 GMT
#59
On May 16 2010 04:46 Rathorne wrote:
Does someone have a replay or two? I think that would help me quite a lot.

Thanks


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123413

Gretorp goes in detail about ghosts in TvP. It covers all general protoss builds, including voids.
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
May 15 2010 19:51 GMT
#60
NO but mens u musting of realizes that make many maradaraers and he make dieing before he void ray go pop becoys lol maradireers are imbalancing very
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Raneth
Profile Joined December 2009
England527 Posts
May 15 2010 19:51 GMT
#61
is this a troll thread yeah?
tom: "dont you mean TWO g keys???" kwark: "nah, i'll probably just press it twice"
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 19:52 GMT
#62
On May 16 2010 04:50 Darthturtle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 04:46 Rathorne wrote:
Does someone have a replay or two? I think that would help me quite a lot.

Thanks


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123413

Gretorp goes in detail about ghosts in TvP. It covers all general protoss builds, including voids.


okay u mean i MUST build ghost vs toss or its auto lose? is it balance?
TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
May 15 2010 19:52 GMT
#63
On May 16 2010 04:48 AeonFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 04:46 TossFloss wrote:
On May 16 2010 03:34 AeonFlux wrote:
But i win almost all games with terran in platinum.

If u need prove heres replay pack of all my fucken games. (12.15 Mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/?ygwkhijtgkn
.......


You edit your post. You fix your spelling mistakes. You put some effort into proper style. Afterwards, I may consider helping you.

As my eyes scan through your minefield of misspellings, little explosions go off inside my head. ("treied" "i", "cas")

I don't care how English may not be your mother tongue. I've marked essays from impoverished Chinese grade schoolers whose writing, when contrasted with yours, reads like Shakespeare.


learn russian and we can speak on very cool level
i can speak 2 languages when u can speak only one..


I speak 3 languages: French, English and Chinese.

In none of those languages would I go to an online forum asking for help without putting reasonable effort into the quality of my writing.
TL Android App Open Source http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=265090
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 19:52 GMT
#64
I'll check it out Darthturtle. Appreciate it.
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 19:56:32
May 15 2010 19:55 GMT
#65
On May 16 2010 04:48 AeonFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 04:46 TossFloss wrote:
On May 16 2010 03:34 AeonFlux wrote:
But i win almost all games with terran in platinum.

If u need prove heres replay pack of all my fucken games. (12.15 Mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/?ygwkhijtgkn
.......


You edit your post. You fix your spelling mistakes. You put some effort into proper style. Afterwards, I may consider helping you.

As my eyes scan through your minefield of misspellings, little explosions go off inside my head. ("treied" "i", "cas")

I don't care how English may not be your mother tongue. I've marked essays from impoverished Chinese grade schoolers whose writing, when contrasted with yours, reads like Shakespeare.


learn russian and we can speak on very cool level
i can speak 2 languages when u can speak only one..

except russian isnt spoken the world over
why the fuck would you expect someone to learn your native language to talk to you? that argument is retarded
in fact, let me call you retarded in the 3 languages i do know
you're an idiot
ti mudak
tui akta madar chod
are we speaking on a very cool level, dryjishee?
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 19:56 GMT
#66
pxaxaxa your rage is fun and u call me troll? Oo
The6357
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States1268 Posts
May 15 2010 19:56 GMT
#67
i thought they nerfed void rays not buffed...wtf is he talking about
and of course tvt is balanced since it is a fucking mirror...
2010 worldcup!! corea fighting!!!
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 19:58 GMT
#68
void ray had 2 damage 1st stage now it has 4 and instant attack switch.
so void ray got doble buff.
Darthturtle
Profile Joined May 2009
United States718 Posts
May 15 2010 19:59 GMT
#69
On May 16 2010 04:52 AeonFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 04:50 Darthturtle wrote:
On May 16 2010 04:46 Rathorne wrote:
Does someone have a replay or two? I think that would help me quite a lot.

Thanks


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123413

Gretorp goes in detail about ghosts in TvP. It covers all general protoss builds, including voids.


okay u mean i MUST build ghost vs toss or its auto lose? is it balance?


No, son. You must build more SCVs so you can afford to actually make an army. Your new motto is "Terran Expo is imba"
TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 20:00:46
May 15 2010 19:59 GMT
#70
On May 16 2010 04:49 Rathorne wrote:
Yes, but my English is decent enough, I think. Please help me Tossfloss.


Unfortunately, I have not faced TvP void rays since patch 11. Instead, I'm seeing phoenix plays (Nony style).
TL Android App Open Source http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=265090
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 20:02:49
May 15 2010 20:01 GMT
#71
On May 16 2010 04:59 TossFloss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 04:49 Rathorne wrote:
Yes, but my English is decent enough, I think. Please help me Tossfloss.


Unfortunately, I have not faced TvP void rays since patch 11. Instead, I'm seeing phoenix plays (Nony style).


paxaxax.. so u didnt face that strategy and u learn me how to counter it and also call me trol etc? (and how u didnt face it when i face it 75% of games?)
slowmanrunning
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada285 Posts
May 15 2010 20:05 GMT
#72
On May 16 2010 03:49 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:
if you're looking for an all-around unit that kills every unit, you're going to have to change races...


Yeah, your going to have to start spamming hydras or stalkers...
(by no means are these units invinceble, but they do decent against almost anything)
I aim to become a hydralisk and then stop posting, cause I don't wanna be a queen...
GoodCat1
Profile Joined May 2009
Israel266 Posts
May 15 2010 20:05 GMT
#73
cuz you're a low plat...
ZerO FAN~!~!~!
iounas
Profile Joined July 2008
409 Posts
May 15 2010 20:06 GMT
#74
How is this still not closed..
IdrA: stalkers actually do negative damage. when you shoot a marine with a stalker it gains health.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 20:08 GMT
#75
i m low plat cas play 1 game in 3 days.. i d be mych higher if played more.

BUT. i cant see way to counter void ray or muta.
Bensio
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom621 Posts
May 15 2010 20:10 GMT
#76
Heres some russian for ya mate, zatkroju zhopu..

Seriously, use ghosts vs Toss, scout scout and scout some more. VR are so easy to scout, its become the new banshee rush, tons of ppl do it, so its easy to practice vs and easy to scout.
Cloak
Profile Joined October 2009
United States816 Posts
May 15 2010 20:11 GMT
#77
You lack hatred.
The more you know, the less you understand.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 20:13 GMT
#78
i dont need scout. your advice scout. can u get what stupid advice is it?
toss make void rays 80% of games so rly i dont need scout i just know its void ray most of times.
Bensio
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom621 Posts
May 15 2010 20:14 GMT
#79
On May 16 2010 05:13 AeonFlux wrote:
i dont need scout. your advice scout. can u get what stupid advice is it?
toss make void rays 80% of games so rly i dont need scout i just know its void ray most of times.


Well if you know than its problem solved, 2 rax or 1 with reactor is more than enough to prevent any form of harrassment from VR.

Then tech to port for vikings if the toss persists heavy stargate play.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 20:19:14
May 15 2010 20:16 GMT
#80
okay so when toss go tech i have to mass infantry and i cant have tech opening when toss can?

is it balance?

and when i make viking i lack ground force (when muta or void ray are very good vs ground).
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 20:17 GMT
#81
Sigh.

OK, so I just checked the replays (only 2) that Darthturtle suggest I'd check out.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123413

Kulas Ravine (18)
Scrap Station (13)

Both were Protoss vs. Terran.

The Terran player (who wrote the article), lost both to Protoss. The 1st on Scrap Station was lost to Void Rays. The 2nd was lost to Stalkers/Sentries. However, had Protoss made VoidRays, he would have lost even worse.

I asked for replays, and I got them. Thank you. However, I am now further discouraged, because the guy lost the first 2 games I saw against Protoss, to the same stuff I lose to. Sigh. I'll cont looking, but this is not a good way to start off.
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 20:19 GMT
#82
AeonFlux

From "my" experience, your best bet is to make a Hellion, scout the map as best possible. Make Vikings (Because you have to), and then just hope for the best. Try to expand, bunker up at Natrual Expansion and go for broke.

That's what I'm going to try to do, because nothing else works to my knowledge.

If anyone has any other valuable advice or help, now is the time.
Ezreal
Profile Joined April 2010
United States7 Posts
May 15 2010 20:22 GMT
#83
Alright speaking from little experience here but I don't really see much of a problem with the match ups. As a Gold 1500 terran player, I have no problems with other races or even mirrors. In all honesty I feel that Terran as far as builds and versatility go exceed both the other races. I have a 90% win against Zerg and a 70%(give or take and never using a ghost) win against Protoss. In fact the only problem I'm having is the mirror match up, with a 50% win rate.

Again I am only a 1500 Gold player, who plays once or twice a week, but I do watch a lot of SC2 streams and I feel like I have learned everything I need in order to survive any kind of strategy/game-style the opposing player can possibly throw at me. When I lose there's really only one person to blame and that is me. I kinda hate to say it(not really) but I feel that you are just blaming the game for your own short comings and you should realize that other players are just better than you.

And yes you're a plat player and I'm a gold but we are both facing players with equal skill(again give or take). So bashing the fact that I'm in gold league is kinda pointless in this sense.

AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 20:25:17
May 15 2010 20:23 GMT
#84
Rathorne, okay, i have to make viking any game with toss and probably zerg (vs muta). So i m behind, cas viking is bad unit. But i have to use skill to win.. Its okay but i m just curious that i have to make bad BO every game just cas Blizzard decided to make void ray imba (which wasn't before some patch).

But the problem is also that stalker kills viking very easily when cost less. And stalker has more move speed and blink.
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 20:24 GMT
#85
I'm not going to bash Gold or any other Leagues.

Thanks for your input.

What do you do against a Protoss Void Ray opening, with a moderate ground threat level to boot?
TLOBrian
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States453 Posts
May 15 2010 20:24 GMT
#86
On May 16 2010 03:49 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:
if you're looking for an all-around unit that kills every unit, you're going to have to change races...


He already has that, it's called the Marauder.

Once you get a critical mass of Marauder/Viking, you basically are invincible.

Vikings are a straight counter to all air units, and can harass.

Marauders are a straight counter to all ground and once you get 16 of them, even lings are ineffective.

Immortals even melt to mass marauder, as their stimmed attack speed is too strong.

Banelings can just be kited to death by mass marauder.

Unless the opponent has a huge economic advantage over you, terran can beat any race really easily, but I don't expect blizzard to do anything about it.

I don't know why this QQ thread even exists, Terran players have no right to QQ, just like protoss players didn't have the right to at the start of the beta : P
Steven Bonnell II is the friggin man.
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 20:28 GMT
#87
Zerg matchup I do very well in.

I open with Factory/Reactor 2x Hellion. Scout/Attack Drones.
Build into Start Port, get 1 fast Banshee, 2 if needed and then hit Zerg main base.

If I see Zerg go Hydras I get a lot of Hellions with Pre-Igniter upgrade. backed up with a mix of Tanks/Marines (more Marines). If my opponent opted for Mutalisks/Zling. I still get Hellions with Pre-Igniter upgrade, Marines and Vikings.

I don't believe that strategy to be what most people do, but it has worked extremely well for me in the past and my win% against Zerg is outstanding.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 20:29:40
May 15 2010 20:28 GMT
#88
He already has that, it's called the Marauder.
Once you get a critical mass of Marauder/Viking, you basically are invincible.
Vikings are a straight counter to all air units, and can harass.


thats shit. if he masses muta and i mass viking FOR ALL MONEY then zerg killez me CAS MUTA'S BETTER THEN VIKING. so i cant make marauders and viking. i have to make viking and marine for all money and i dont see way how i can make marauder. also void rays fight good with viking too so viking isnt counter to void ray.
and also stalker is direct counter to viking
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
May 15 2010 20:29 GMT
#89
I don't even know why I'm replying to this thread but...
Void Rays:
You said if you build vikings, then you fall vulnerable to a Protoss ground push... Now, think about this. Maybe you could only build Vikings when you scout Void Rays? You have scan, you should be able to know if Void Rays are coming. If you don't see Void Rays, then don't build Vikings, and you can deal with the ground army push...

If you played BW, think about it like this:
Late game PvT. You don't just build mass Goliaths on a whim in the off chance that he might be going Carriers. You pump Goliaths when you either see, or scout Carriers. Otherwise, you keep up your Tanks and Vultures to deal with the ground army.

Scouting is important. Reading what your opponent has is the best way to determine what you want to do yourself. There is no magical combination that kills everything.
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 20:30 GMT
#90
TLOBrian.

Thanks for not helping. Instead I'm apparently a QQ bitch. Sorry for asking help as to how I beat a Protoss Void Ray opening. My bad.
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 15 2010 20:30 GMT
#91
On May 16 2010 04:55 TheAntZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 04:48 AeonFlux wrote:
On May 16 2010 04:46 TossFloss wrote:
On May 16 2010 03:34 AeonFlux wrote:
But i win almost all games with terran in platinum.

If u need prove heres replay pack of all my fucken games. (12.15 Mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/?ygwkhijtgkn
.......


You edit your post. You fix your spelling mistakes. You put some effort into proper style. Afterwards, I may consider helping you.

As my eyes scan through your minefield of misspellings, little explosions go off inside my head. ("treied" "i", "cas")

I don't care how English may not be your mother tongue. I've marked essays from impoverished Chinese grade schoolers whose writing, when contrasted with yours, reads like Shakespeare.


learn russian and we can speak on very cool level
i can speak 2 languages when u can speak only one..


tui akta madar chod


that's a little stronger than "you're an idiot"...
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 20:31:11
May 15 2010 20:30 GMT
#92
On May 16 2010 05:28 Rathorne wrote:
Zerg matchup I do very well in.

I open with Factory/Reactor 2x Hellion. Scout/Attack Drones.
Build into Start Port, get 1 fast Banshee, 2 if needed and then hit Zerg main base.

If I see Zerg go Hydras I get a lot of Hellions with Pre-Igniter upgrade. backed up with a mix of Tanks/Marines (more Marines). If my opponent opted for Mutalisks/Zling. I still get Hellions with Pre-Igniter upgrade, Marines and Vikings.

I don't believe that strategy to be what most people do, but it has worked extremely well for me in the past and my win% against Zerg is outstanding.


and if he goes roach+muta? helions are useless here and muta killez vikings.
DarkChrono
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16 Posts
May 15 2010 20:30 GMT
#93
his units keep killing my units and I'm NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 20:32 GMT
#94
Archaic,

If you have read the previous posts, you'd understand the scouting does not fix the Void Ray problem.

A lot of Protoss players (the better ones), will proxy their stargate elsewhere on the map. Not in their base where I can easily scout it.

Please don't assume that I'm a complete newb just because I have trouble with the P Void Ray opening game. I scout very well I think, but I do have a problem finding Stargates because Protoss hides them. At least on my playing field they do.
aaaaaah
Profile Joined May 2010
45 Posts
May 15 2010 20:32 GMT
#95
I think looking at some replays of how other people play
=D
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 20:33 GMT
#96
On May 16 2010 05:29 Archaic wrote:
I don't even know why I'm replying to this thread but...
Void Rays:
You said if you build vikings, then you fall vulnerable to a Protoss ground push... Now, think about this. Maybe you could only build Vikings when you scout Void Rays? You have scan, you should be able to know if Void Rays are coming. If you don't see Void Rays, then don't build Vikings, and you can deal with the ground army push...


thats full shit. why should i waste 270 minz scan when i can just build viking for that money? its better just to build viking any time.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 20:34 GMT
#97
On May 16 2010 05:32 Rathorne wrote:
Archaic,

If you have read the previous posts, you'd understand the scouting does not fix the Void Ray problem.

A lot of Protoss players (the better ones), will proxy their stargate elsewhere on the map. Not in their base where I can easily scout it.

Please don't assume that I'm a complete newb just because I have trouble with the P Void Ray opening game. I scout very well I think, but I do have a problem finding Stargates because Protoss hides them. At least on my playing field they do.


and even if u scout VR what u gonna to do with it? vikings? i said all about them - useless stuped unit.
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 20:34 GMT
#98
Aeon Flux.

right, i mean if they got roach muta, that changes things. Luckily it is a lot easier to scout Zerg and you have a lot more time to do so. If you see Roaches, make sure to make more Marauders.

Its hard to scout Protoss Void rays because of the Proxy stuff. Same as with Terran and Proxy Reaper build. Thankfully, if Terran Proxies their Reaper build, it is painfully obvious that thats what their doing. Whereas a proxy Stargate is not always so obvious.
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 20:36 GMT
#99
Is anyone willing to play a few SC2 Beta games with me? Protoss vs. Terran matchups for practice. That would be very helpful and much appreciated.

Rathorne.gabranth

is the name.
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
May 15 2010 20:39 GMT
#100
I think we should just let Rathorne talk for AeonFlux.
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
May 15 2010 20:39 GMT
#101
How is this thread not closed yet?
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
pyr0ma5ta
Profile Joined May 2010
United States458 Posts
May 15 2010 20:39 GMT
#102
Successful troll is successful?

Rauders + Thor vs Zerg.

EMP all day long vs Toss.
"I made you a zergling, but I eated it." - Defiler
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 20:40 GMT
#103
EMP is devstating against Protoss. Yes, thank you, I think we all know that Pyro.
Uranium
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1077 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 20:44:20
May 15 2010 20:41 GMT
#104
I'm really bad at Terran but somehow I can win in TvP by going 1 rax -> ghost academy -> factory -> 2 more rax -> nuke -> 3 ghosts + marauders, EMP everything in sight and then nuke their base.

edit: I think I got trolled.
"Sentry imba! You see? YOU SEE??!!" - Sen | "Marauder die die!" - oGsMC | "Oh my god, she texted me back!" - Day[9]
Darthturtle
Profile Joined May 2009
United States718 Posts
May 15 2010 20:43 GMT
#105
On May 16 2010 05:17 Rathorne wrote:
Sigh.

OK, so I just checked the replays (only 2) that Darthturtle suggest I'd check out.


I wonder how you could've gone to the page I linked, and then completely miss the stuff labeled TvP, and instead download an unrelated replay pack.
j3d
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom34 Posts
May 15 2010 20:43 GMT
#106
honestly.. your having trouble with voids? marines are the answer, cost for cost, aslong as you have the awareness to intercept instead of letting them charge on your buildings. you can keep a toss with voids out of your base with those rines. Im a Toss player, i used to go voids all the time, until people started working out how to counter them. and nearly all terran i came across, countered with rines.

and for muta, thor is your answer, with hellions to back it up against lings. (dont forget you can repair them too...)

but seriously, why hasn't this been locked yet? o.O
www.j3d.net23.net
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 20:45 GMT
#107
Hier, why would this thread be closed. This is a legitmate issue to me. I don't know how to effectively play against a Void Ray opening as Terrans. Please help.

Only Darthturtle tried to help. No one else did anything, except complain at my pleas for a few good replays or practice games against Protoss as Terran.

Please prove me wrong, and help if you wouldn't mind.
Talia
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany64 Posts
May 15 2010 20:45 GMT
#108
On May 16 2010 03:41 AeonFlux wrote:
also if he dosnt build muta viking are useless cas they need to land to attack and landed its worst



If the Zerg doesn't build air units he is screwed because you can easily snipe his Overlords
Pandaaa
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 20:46 GMT
#109
J3D, thanks sir.

Perhaps if I work on my base build, and make it harder for void rays to charge up on my buildings I can counter more effectively with Marines.
s031720
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden383 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 20:56:57
May 15 2010 20:55 GMT
#110
OK. Counter:

Always build a few marines when playing P. If you scout VR coming, then make sure to build even more and get Stim as quickly as you can. But you should be fine anyway.(remember, toss had to tech pretty hard to get VRs to start with, so can you hold it off you are pretty well off. Counteraggression is a good alternative so hit him with helions for instance. Be sure to scout first as he may have walled-off completely. Then just tech and prepare for expanding.)

Have the marines positioned pretty central, away from the edges of the base. When the VR attack, run our marines up under them and focus them down. They will retreat. Then move your marines back to the middle again. Rince, repeat.

Thats it. Keep doing this as long as it takes to get other stuff going for you. WIth EMP you will kill the VRs instead of scaring them away, so thats a good option.
Just another noob
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 21:02 GMT
#111
If the Zerg doesn't build air units he is screwed because you can easily snipe his Overlords

no, even queen can couner viking very easily.

Perhaps if I work on my base build, and make it harder for void rays to charge up on my buildings I can counter more effectively with Marines.


no. if u place buildings too close its worst u can do. the best way is to place buildings randomly (wide formation). cas it gives your marines more manuverability.

right, i mean if they got roach muta, that changes things. Luckily it is a lot easier to scout Zerg and you have a lot more time to do so. If you see Roaches, make sure to make more Marauders.

building 1-2 helions is waste. cas if theres muta i d could be betttre to have 4 rines instead of helion. the same with roach. so if terran has every game start with bad unit composition (building helion each game is bad if theres fast muta or roach).
it means next: if zerg goes fast muta u can fight it and be a bit worse (cas viking too bad vs muta). BUT. when u built two heilons and theres fast myta u a in MUCH worse position cas u needed marines. it means u lose 100% games to fast muta and it means helion opening is not good. also this mean that u have less marauders and zerg can kill u even with roach against marauders (cas u lost time in game start not building maraduers when he can spam roach he needz just 1 building for it when u for mass marauder need 5 rax).
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 21:06 GMT
#112
On May 16 2010 05:55 s031720 wrote:
OK. Counter:

Always build a few marines when playing P. If you scout VR coming, then make sure to build even more and get Stim as quickly as you can. But you should be fine anyway.(remember, toss had to tech pretty hard to get VRs to start with, so can you hold it off you are pretty well off. Counteraggression is a good alternative so hit him with helions for instance. Be sure to scout first as he may have walled-off completely. Then just tech and prepare for expanding.)

Have the marines positioned pretty central, away from the edges of the base. When the VR attack, run our marines up under them and focus them down. They will retreat. Then move your marines back to the middle again. Rince, repeat.


PXAXAXAXAXA. so i see ONE void ray and must make tonne of marines just to survive and then die to any option toss choses (colosses or zealot/stalker/sentry push). and also i have to attack him with helions which just die to stalkerz xaxaxaxax omg..

Thats it. Keep doing this as long as it takes to get other stuff going for you. WIth EMP you will kill the VRs instead of scaring them away, so thats a good option.

xaxaxa so u have to sit at base all game with marines in center of it very cool and balanced..
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
May 15 2010 21:08 GMT
#113
someone close this thread and ban the OP already T_T
beep boop
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
May 15 2010 21:09 GMT
#114
Proxy Stargate is no excuse to not scout VRs. If you see early double gas and there's no large pile of gateways, Stargates is really really likely.

The key to holding off VRs with Marines is not letting those VRs charge up. Static turrets work well for this, too. Even vikings will seriously struggle if those VRs have pre-charged to full power. Remember though, that 2 vikings is the cost of 1 VR - they're balanced appropriately.

Don't let those VRs charge up on your refinery/buildings. Don't be so close to the rocks that VRs can charge up on rocks and still be charged up when they

VRs might have decent full speed but they have terrible acceleration without the Flux Vanes upgrade.

Don't be afraid to put a reactor on your factory and switch your starport to it to get enough vikings fast enough to counter the heavy VRs, and you can land them after to help with the ground push - they do reasonably well vs protoss ground with their fixed 14 damage and pretty fast fire rate. (watch out for immortals though - but that's unlikely if they have vikings unless they're way outmacroing you.)

If your vikings win you air superiority, you've just nullified their entire stargate tech, and since your vikings can back up ground forces in a ground push, you're in a good position to sweep them.
TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
May 15 2010 21:11 GMT
#115
On May 16 2010 05:01 AeonFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 04:59 TossFloss wrote:
On May 16 2010 04:49 Rathorne wrote:
Yes, but my English is decent enough, I think. Please help me Tossfloss.


Unfortunately, I have not faced TvP void rays since patch 11. Instead, I'm seeing phoenix plays (Nony style).


paxaxax.. so u didnt face that strategy and u learn me how to counter it and also call me trol etc?


Oh god

You also asked for help in PvZ. I'm won't connect the dots for you.

(and how u didnt face it when i face it 75% of games?)

We're obviously playing different players *duh*.

Still waiting for that edit.
TL Android App Open Source http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=265090
Rathorne
Profile Joined May 2010
United States20 Posts
May 15 2010 21:12 GMT
#116
s031720

Thank you sir, that was helpful.

I think one of my big problems was the way my base was built and not being prepared for incoming Void Rays. Because once their charged...*shudders* they are mighty strong.
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 15 2010 21:19 GMT
#117
i'm F5 THIS thread...

in the meantime, how did you get to plat if you can't beat toss or zerg? cause i've never played 5 straight games vs terran.
Wire
Profile Joined July 2009
United States494 Posts
May 15 2010 21:20 GMT
#118
Um...you seem very aggressive mr. OP. don't get so angry its just a game...

Secondly, on topic..

Vs Zerg: There's a really nice build you can do that does involve good scouting but its very effective vs zerg. Essentially you do your 10 supply 12 rax 13 gas, then when ur rax is done u make 1 marine and start orbital, tacking on second gas at next 75 mins. of course get next supply and when u start factory you start reactor on rax. swap when done and u can pump dual hellions while you start your startport. when starport is half way one of two things needs to have occured, because you will have seen one of the 3 most likely following builds:

ling-baneling mass: ezpz. at this point your wall should be supply supply fac with rax right next to it and starport too. this is a very heavy wall and will not get demolished by banelings given good repair. if you have a hole tack on a ebay for good measure, continue making hellions and techlab your rax to swap with starport for banshees, this should lead to gg if not then expo.

roach mass: this is a little more difficult to deal with since neither marines nor hellions do good damage versus roach. you can either 1. techlab your rax but not swap after port is done, make marauders on that rax and delay your banshee on port by making techlab from scratch when port is done. the delay will still allow you to get two marauders and a banshee out in time to deal with roach rush. you should be able to hold it off with heavy wall (see above) and then continue banshee production, tacking on a second starport for dual banshees if this aggression continues.

hydra tech: this is much easier to deal with. get techlab on rax, swap with port, make a banshee while researching cloak, continuing hellion production. stop banshee production at 2 banshees if he starts getting overseers and spore colonies, start a second fact, move first fact to techlab on port and port to reactor. pump 2 vikings while getting hellion upgrades and making a tank. secure yourself on two bases because hellion really burn through hydras when critical mass, harass with your viking and banshee, harass with your hellion, and mech up.

muta tech: this puts you in a pinch. you need to scout this well, especially if you see lair tech then you need to constantly scan or scout because the minute you see a spire go down you need to put down an armory asap. swap your rax to your reactor, swap fact to the techlab you just made with rax. with your starport at completion, make 1 viking and pump some marines. even if your thor does not get out in time to deal with the initial 6 mutalisks, your marine and viking force should deter them long enough to get one thor out, by which time his muta harass will become moot. expo and mech up.

notice at each stage you need to 1. scout well and 2. be able to react. pure marauders gets you nowhere, this isn't patch 4 anymore.

As for v protoss, might i suggest the Gretorp build, also the ghost marine build. this build is a fast expand that counters immortal rush, 3 gate warp rush, and voidrays. look it up i'm not going to explain it all to you. the search button on the TL.net site should help

GL
"You sacced your ovie, which is great, but then you didn't watch it die, which is bad :("
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 21:23:59
May 15 2010 21:22 GMT
#119
On May 16 2010 06:20 Wire wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

Um...you seem very aggressive mr. OP. don't get so angry its just a game...

Secondly, on topic..

Vs Zerg: There's a really nice build you can do that does involve good scouting but its very effective vs zerg. Essentially you do your 10 supply 12 rax 13 gas, then when ur rax is done u make 1 marine and start orbital, tacking on second gas at next 75 mins. of course get next supply and when u start factory you start reactor on rax. swap when done and u can pump dual hellions while you start your startport. when starport is half way one of two things needs to have occured, because you will have seen one of the 3 most likely following builds:

ling-baneling mass: ezpz. at this point your wall should be supply supply fac with rax right next to it and starport too. this is a very heavy wall and will not get demolished by banelings given good repair. if you have a hole tack on a ebay for good measure, continue making hellions and techlab your rax to swap with starport for banshees, this should lead to gg if not then expo.

roach mass: this is a little more difficult to deal with since neither marines nor hellions do good damage versus roach. you can either 1. techlab your rax but not swap after port is done, make marauders on that rax and delay your banshee on port by making techlab from scratch when port is done. the delay will still allow you to get two marauders and a banshee out in time to deal with roach rush. you should be able to hold it off with heavy wall (see above) and then continue banshee production, tacking on a second starport for dual banshees if this aggression continues.

hydra tech: this is much easier to deal with. get techlab on rax, swap with port, make a banshee while researching cloak, continuing hellion production. stop banshee production at 2 banshees if he starts getting overseers and spore colonies, start a second fact, move first fact to techlab on port and port to reactor. pump 2 vikings while getting hellion upgrades and making a tank. secure yourself on two bases because hellion really burn through hydras when critical mass, harass with your viking and banshee, harass with your hellion, and mech up.

muta tech: this puts you in a pinch. you need to scout this well, especially if you see lair tech then you need to constantly scan or scout because the minute you see a spire go down you need to put down an armory asap. swap your rax to your reactor, swap fact to the techlab you just made with rax. with your starport at completion, make 1 viking and pump some marines. even if your thor does not get out in time to deal with the initial 6 mutalisks, your marine and viking force should deter them long enough to get one thor out, by which time his muta harass will become moot. expo and mech up.

notice at each stage you need to 1. scout well and 2. be able to react. pure marauders gets you nowhere, this isn't patch 4 anymore.

As for v protoss, might i suggest the Gretorp build, also the ghost marine build. this build is a fast expand that counters immortal rush, 3 gate warp rush, and voidrays. look it up i'm not going to explain it all to you. the search button on the TL.net site should help

GL

i love TL for the manner and dedication of people such as yourself. GJ

edit: added 2 spoiler tags, then removed 1
Smikis
Profile Joined April 2010
Lithuania117 Posts
May 15 2010 21:23 GMT
#120
terran got most hard counters in game.. while zerg got 0 hard counters.. .. plenty of soft.. but thats about it..

are you seriously loosing to mutas when going mass marines+ ravens.. which is very strong tactic if executed right.. ill take that ur off 1 base.. and zerg is 3 basing mutas.. cuz there is no way mutas can beat marines.. if ur going mass marines.. yes mutas are strong but you need a lot to beat a lot of marines.. and if you just fail so hard on mutas.. when running aa marines.. get 2 thors.. rapes mutas.. + banelings.. just keep your 1-2 thors infront and micro marines.. it will take over 10 banelings to kill 1 thor.. more like 15 banelings to kill 400 hp thor.. so yeh. thats counter too..
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
May 15 2010 21:33 GMT
#121
On May 16 2010 05:30 AeonFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 05:28 Rathorne wrote:
Zerg matchup I do very well in.

I open with Factory/Reactor 2x Hellion. Scout/Attack Drones.
Build into Start Port, get 1 fast Banshee, 2 if needed and then hit Zerg main base.

If I see Zerg go Hydras I get a lot of Hellions with Pre-Igniter upgrade. backed up with a mix of Tanks/Marines (more Marines). If my opponent opted for Mutalisks/Zling. I still get Hellions with Pre-Igniter upgrade, Marines and Vikings.

I don't believe that strategy to be what most people do, but it has worked extremely well for me in the past and my win% against Zerg is outstanding.


and if he goes roach+muta? helions are useless here and muta killez vikings.


If he goes Roach + Muta go Marauder + Viking....
gillon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden1578 Posts
May 15 2010 21:43 GMT
#122
I thought that this was a troll? Why is it being fed?

Really though, there are ways to handle both voidrays and mutas effectively, we all know this.
www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 15 2010 21:45 GMT
#123
but then there are genuine people having problems too.. do we feed the troll to help them? (moot point for me as i have little to contribute from my gold league spot!)
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 22:00 GMT
#124
Wire, sure i dont have problemz with roach or hydra. So i m saying that muta should be nerfed. I didnt said about nerf of roaches or hydra cas now this units are balanced. Just with muta. And tactics which u reccomend vs muta is pretty bad cas thor is useless dumb unit.

All tactics u reccomend are DEFENSIVE and GAY PASSIVE. U lose initiative = thats not way of pro.

Vs zerg i can reccomend tanks+rines+1 raven.

But vs toss i dont see any options..
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 15 2010 22:02 GMT
#125
there is a time for agression and a time for defense... otherwise you're just rushing all game, and the moment you lose momentum you just die.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 22:03 GMT
#126

If he goes Roach + Muta go Marauder + Viking....


So to counter Muta i ll have unit which sux to muta and all know that? And roach are good with marauders cas they cast 2x less in minerals (having more hp).
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 22:05:19
May 15 2010 22:04 GMT
#127
On May 16 2010 07:02 kerpal wrote:
there is a time for agression and a time for defense... otherwise you're just rushing all game, and the moment you lose momentum you just die.


u have to rush all game to be the pro and if u fail then u can go defence. but if u go defence 1st then u are not pro.

i m not asking how to survive and expand (any noob can do it with turrets vikings and siege tanks). but i ask how not to lose initiative and dominte the game.
Tone_
Profile Joined May 2009
United Kingdom554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 22:06:54
May 15 2010 22:06 GMT
#128
To OP:

Are you seriously looking for a magical build or set of units that ***BEATS ZERG*** and one that ***BEATS TOSS*** well damn if you find this magical combo pls tell us?

All your listed builds are viable. The problem will be your execution. Void rays, lings and banelings aren't too powerful, you are the one that is below the norm it would seem. TvZ isn't broken, and TvT is balanced? Really? A mirror matchup? One teams thors arent twice as good as anothers?
Hasta La Victoria Siempre | 톤
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 15 2010 22:06 GMT
#129
On May 16 2010 07:04 AeonFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 07:02 kerpal wrote:
there is a time for agression and a time for defense... otherwise you're just rushing all game, and the moment you lose momentum you just die.


u have to rush all game to be the pro and if u fail then u can go defence. but if u go defence 1st then u are not pro.

i m not asking how to survive and expand (any noob can do it with turrets vikings and siege tanks). but i ask how not to lose initiative and dominte the game.

my man, you are impressively all-in here.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 22:08 GMT
#130

my man, you are impressively all-in here.

all-in with 80% win chance much better then turtle with 20% chance for win isnt it?
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 15 2010 22:09 GMT
#131
i wasn't talking about your game play.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 22:12 GMT
#132
On May 16 2010 07:06 Tone_ wrote:
To OP:

Are you seriously looking for a magical build or set of units that ***BEATS ZERG*** and one that ***BEATS TOSS*** well damn if you find this magical combo pls tell us?

All your listed builds are viable. The problem will be your execution. Void rays, lings and banelings aren't too powerful, you are the one that is below the norm it would seem. TvZ isn't broken, and TvT is balanced? Really? A mirror matchup? One teams thors arent twice as good as anothers?


vs zerg only marines+tanks+1raven are good. i just was trying other tactics but now i see they all useless (thats not good and not balanced but we cant fix it, only blizz can).

but vs toss.. i dunno what to do.

muta has range 3 and rine has range 5. but vr has range 7-9 and its very bad.
cas both muta and vr are faster then marine.

if unit is faster and have longer range its means theres's some inbalance if i have to counetr vr with marine. stimpack? then i need not only rines, but i nedd rines+medivacs just to counter one fucking unit. (and also i ll need viking btw). thats not balance.
j3d
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom34 Posts
May 15 2010 22:14 GMT
#133
On May 16 2010 07:00 AeonFlux wrote:
Wire, sure i dont have problemz with roach or hydra. So i m saying that muta should be nerfed. I didnt said about nerf of roaches or hydra cas now this units are balanced. Just with muta. And tactics which u reccomend vs muta is pretty bad cas thor is useless dumb unit.

All tactics u reccomend are DEFENSIVE and GAY PASSIVE. U lose initiative = thats not way of pro.

Vs zerg i can reccomend tanks+rines+1 raven.

But vs toss i dont see any options..



"thats not way of pro." imo, i would worry about winning, before worrying about what your doing is "pro" or not.

but seriously, thor is a stupid unit? i take it youve actually used it right? and not just seen it on some copper guys replays? you know that thor drop tactic... you really think it would be around if the thor was "useless" and "dumb".

if your opponent has mutas, thor is the best counter you will come across. and you also have a factory for hellions if he goes mutaling.

please, stop raging, stop and think about the many suggestions your getting. because if you did. you could be online right now, winning.
www.j3d.net23.net
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 22:20 GMT
#134
thor drop was used cas some noob thought that its cool to waste all your economics for such supid thing. probable terrans though that zergs are so dumb that can't do anything to one stupid drop of one stuped unit.
and all noobs liked that drop CAS WOW IT LOOKS SO COOl! But they cant calculate that damage which thor deal is too small and money u waste for that drop are too much.

thor is option but i think u saw very much pro games where thors and rines were easily destroyed by mutas+banelings. and some funny games where all terran slow thors shd move (on lost temple) back to base to defend it from muta. sure in such games terran has no chance cas lose of initiative and mobility.
Sublimis
Profile Joined May 2009
Sweden70 Posts
May 15 2010 22:20 GMT
#135
Banshee rushes never work out ofr me in TvT somehow...
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 22:24:24
May 15 2010 22:23 GMT
#136
thor vs banshee is even worse then thor vs muta (cas banshee makes 3x more dps then mutalisk and has invis). but bunshee is slower but it dosnt matter cas thor is slowest unit in game).
j3d
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom34 Posts
May 15 2010 22:25 GMT
#137
ok, i really think you need to get the terms "unit diversity" "scouting" and "preperation" registered. because when you can scout and prepare with unit diversity, you will be able to win some games.

anywayz, i cba to read this anymore, as you take no advice seriously. so gg to you sir. gg
www.j3d.net23.net
No_eL
Profile Joined July 2007
Chile1438 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 22:31:43
May 15 2010 22:28 GMT
#138
im really sick about sc2 strat section, but anyways his thread deserve some attention.. why?? becasue this guy have a point. You can say that he its just whinning, or he its not paying attention to the STUPID answers that many of posters here are doing, but he its a platinum player, he is terran... he put a pack of replays (that im sure no poster has watching before write), and he is arguing. But oh well.. a bunch of noobs are free raging against him, guys with less than 100 post and just 1 mont or less of forum activity.

Why i think that this guy have some part of the true??

Because im sure that the game is broken. The easy mechanics, the stupid smartcast.. and deep software issue its behind the actual gaming problems. Its not an easy balance issue. Stupid BOs including massing tier 1 units and no multitask, nor micro habilities are winning SO much games right now. Why wc3, wow and dota players are succesful and happy right now?

Because Blizzard its making a massive game for all kind of users. The speed of the game and IA are behind all of this shit, u dont need to micro, u dont need to expand, u dont need to do anymore than mass and "a-click" and get free wins.. its easier with zerg and toss, but u can do with terrans too.

This game its just a complex UMS map with nice graphics, but its dumb like hell.

Its pretty sad for sc:bw users, but entertainig for many noobs.

My suggestion: stop playing terran, or just stop playing sc2 like sc:bw, u just need to learn a couple of tricks, dont need apm, nor superb skills.

ps: I win like 400 points tonight playing in this way, now im 15 plat and ill be 1 in just a week. Im sure of that.
Beat after beat i will become stronger.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 22:29 GMT
#139
havent u see semi final of one of scbw leagues where flash didnt scout anything he just used his tactics (bunker rush/vultures) and destroyed toss?
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 22:33:43
May 15 2010 22:31 GMT
#140
On May 16 2010 07:04 AeonFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 07:02 kerpal wrote:
there is a time for agression and a time for defense... otherwise you're just rushing all game, and the moment you lose momentum you just die.


u have to rush all game to be the pro and if u fail then u can go defence. but if u go defence 1st then u are not pro.

i m not asking how to survive and expand (any noob can do it with turrets vikings and siege tanks). but i ask how not to lose initiative and dominte the game.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Flash pretty much only plays defensively and he's arguably the best Terran player in SC1, and won the OSL and got 2nd in the MSL. So I don't think playing defensive is "noob", and if you think playing a bit defensive and passive and letting your opponent make the first move so you can exploit it, you're the noob. You can't be on the offensive and winning 100% of the time in every game, there's no unit that can do that and there's no possible way to do that outside of Copper league. Stop thinking so. Change your mindset or go to another game. A good player knows how to play passive and aggressive.

You're declaring the correct counters to your issue "noobish", and are calling any and all reasonable ideas that EVERYBODY uses "noobish" So I guess everybody is a noob except you. And I highly doubt he's in Platinum. And if he is, so what? you can reach platinum just 1a'ing your way to victory. You win all 5 placement matches and you get to platinum. You know how easy it is to win all 5 placement matches? Plus his own words speak for themselves.

"I banshee spam TvT, and I win all the time. So that matchup is balanced and skillful. But in the matchups where I can't mass one insta-win unit, and I actually need to think, it's imbalanced."
No_eL
Profile Joined July 2007
Chile1438 Posts
May 15 2010 22:33 GMT
#141
On May 16 2010 07:29 AeonFlux wrote:
havent u see semi final of one of scbw leagues where flash didnt scout anything he just used his tactics (bunker rush/vultures) and destroyed toss?


after 10 year of game development, and with alien multitask skills, he its a pro... Now u can win making the same, with no experience nor brain...

Ask blizzard why.
Beat after beat i will become stronger.
Manbear
Profile Joined August 2008
Canada306 Posts
May 15 2010 22:33 GMT
#142
On May 16 2010 07:08 AeonFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +

my man, you are impressively all-in here.

all-in with 80% win chance much better then turtle with 20% chance for win isnt it?


says the guy who cannot win a single game vs toss and zerg
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
May 15 2010 22:36 GMT
#143
On May 16 2010 07:31 Fruscainte wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 07:04 AeonFlux wrote:
On May 16 2010 07:02 kerpal wrote:
there is a time for agression and a time for defense... otherwise you're just rushing all game, and the moment you lose momentum you just die.


u have to rush all game to be the pro and if u fail then u can go defence. but if u go defence 1st then u are not pro.

i m not asking how to survive and expand (any noob can do it with turrets vikings and siege tanks). but i ask how not to lose initiative and dominte the game.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Flash pretty much only plays defensively and he's arguably the best Terran player in SC1, and won the OSL and got 2nd in the MSL. So I don't think playing defensive is "noob", and if you think playing a bit defensive and passive and letting your opponent make the first move so you can exploit it, you're the noob. You can't be on the offensive and winning 100% of the time in every game, there's no unit that can do that and there's no possible way to do that outside of Copper league. Stop thinking so. Change your mindset or go to another game. A good player knows how to play passive and aggressive.

You're declaring the correct counters to your issue "noobish", and are calling any and all reasonable ideas that EVERYBODY uses "noobish" So I guess everybody is a noob except you. And I highly doubt he's in Platinum. And if he is, so what? you can reach platinum just 1a'ing your way to victory. You win all 5 placement matches and you get to platinum. You know how easy it is to win all 5 placement matches? Plus his own words speak for themselves.

"I banshee spam TvT, and I win all the time. So that matchup is balanced and skillful. But in the matchups where I can't mass one insta-win unit, and I actually need to think, it's imbalanced."

AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 22:37 GMT
#144
i got top10 plat sometime with marine push abuse but now its not so simple cas toss dosnt make fast immortal now.. and zerg dosnt make fast expand..

mby i should switch to toss or zerg (and porbably i will do) but i think i can pwn even with terran but i hops blizzard will fix void ray.
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
May 15 2010 22:40 GMT
#145
So you're saying because Protoss and Zerg aren't doing what your build is designed to counter, but instead doing what counters your early-push the race is somehow imbalanced? "Waahhhh, people aren't FE'ing when I'm all in rushing, obviously imba races!"

And void ray is fine FFS. Stim Marines, tada, dead VR's.
KawaiiRice
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2914 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 22:44:00
May 15 2010 22:43 GMT
#146
On May 16 2010 07:37 AeonFlux wrote:
i got top10 plat sometime with marine push abuse but now its not so simple cas toss dosnt make fast immortal now.. and zerg dosnt make fast expand..

mby i should switch to toss or zerg (and porbably i will do) but i think i can pwn even with terran but i hops blizzard will fix void ray.


+ Show Spoiler [flame] +

"top 10 plat" Get over yourself. top 10 is horrible in 99% of all cases.

Honestly after so many pages of replies I don't think I can say anything that hasn't been said already (and if I did you'd call it noobish. P.S.: #1 plat before you wave your horrible english around).
Edit: AND I play Terran
@KawaiiRiceLighT
j3d
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom34 Posts
May 15 2010 22:43 GMT
#147
[image loading]
www.j3d.net23.net
No_eL
Profile Joined July 2007
Chile1438 Posts
May 15 2010 22:43 GMT
#148
u read my post??

with terran u can do the same stupids rush bos.. a little harder, but u can..

play in a smart way, get eco, scouting, multitask, high apm, etc... just doesnt make sense right now. Are deep problems in the programming dimension of the game.. all its too fast, the units and buildings die before u can do nothing.. when u micro u are just messing things and u are dangeously leaving macro mode.
Beat after beat i will become stronger.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 22:43 GMT
#149
You're declaring the correct counters to your issue "noobish", and are calling any and all reasonable ideas that EVERYBODY uses "noobish" So I guess everybody is a noob except you. And I highly doubt he's in Platinum. And if he is, so what? you can reach platinum just 1a'ing your way to victory. You win all 5 placement matches and you get to platinum. You know how easy it is to win all 5 placement matches? Plus his own words speak for themselves.


cant u get that THING THAT EVERYBODY USES CANT BE GOOD CAS EVERYBODY CANT BE TOP1 IN WORLD. top1 is one player and he useses his own tactics and DONT CARE WHAT EVERYBODY USES.
i m stable about 40-50 place in platinum.. its not only 5 games. btw u can watch my replay pack where i totally destroy terrans and cant win zerg or toss.

tvt is balanced cas its mirror.
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
May 15 2010 22:46 GMT
#150
Again, getting to Platinum is nothing special. I won all 5 of my 1v1 placement matches too, I went against total freaking retards every game. I won my first game at rank 60 in Platinum, and I got bumped up to rank 48. It's not freaking hard, stop acting like it. The summing up of every one of your arguments:

"I can't spam units and win, so it's imba"
"People aren't deliberately doing things that my build counters, obviously the race is imba"
"I spam in TvT"
"I'm in Platinum, therefore I'm l337"
"Playing passive or defensively is only for noobs, even though top players do it"
Gregsen
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Germany667 Posts
May 15 2010 22:48 GMT
#151
why isn't this shit closed already?
Boycott Activision whenever, wherever you can.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 22:49 GMT
#152
pts dosnt show skill. it just shows the time u play.
expendable
Profile Joined May 2009
United States17 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-15 22:53:56
May 15 2010 22:50 GMT
#153
On May 16 2010 05:45 Rathorne wrote:
Hier, why would this thread be closed. This is a legitmate issue to me. I don't know how to effectively play against a Void Ray opening as Terrans. Please help.

Only Darthturtle tried to help. No one else did anything, except complain at my pleas for a few good replays or practice games against Protoss as Terran.

Please prove me wrong, and help if you wouldn't mind.


Sweet jesus, are you serious? Every third post in this thread tells you how to deal with them as terran. There's a bunch of threads specifically (Gretorp's is especially good) devoted to countering Void Ray as T. Since you adamantly refuse to put any work in to this here is an easy counter: rax/gas/rax/ghost aca/rax/tech ghostcloak. Make 1 reactor and 2 tech labs, if you scan and see gateway timing push then go heavy marauder, if void ray go heavy ghost. It's really that easy.
k20a
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada412 Posts
May 15 2010 22:52 GMT
#154
this has got to be a troll
"It's like that one time Luke Skywalker threw the ring in to Mordor to kill Hitler, or something" - Tasteless
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 22:54 GMT
#155

Sweet jesus, are you serious? Every third post in this thread tells you how to deal with them as terran. There's a bunch of threads specifically (Gretorp's is especially good) devoted to countering Void Ray as T. Since you adamantly refuse to put any work in to this I will give you an easy counter: rax/gas/rax/ghost aca/rax/tech ghostcloak. Make 1 reactor and 2 tech labs, if you scan and see gateway timing push then go heavy marauder, if void ray go heavy ghost. It's really that easy.


pxaxaxaxa why would u ever need HEAVY ghost? what means heavy? u mean several? so i have to make unit with dps of marine to make several emps? isnt 1 ghost enough to make emp? or i need 5ghosts to be totally destroyed by mass void rays or land push?
also toss can make void ray and fast expand and he will laugh about your ghost.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 22:55 GMT
#156
On May 16 2010 07:52 k20a wrote:
this has got to be a troll

why dont u check my replays and u ll see that i lost all my last games to toss and zerg (and won almost all games vs terran)
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
May 15 2010 23:03 GMT
#157
That's because you spam Banshee's against Terran, and you think that cheesing all the time should win all the time.
AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 23:14 GMT
#158
its not cheese i just use game mechanics as best as possible.
btw terran can counter my tactics at least by mirror tactics. (if he smart enoug).

but how i mirror void ray? u tried (theres replay) but vr kill my base faster then my banshee kill toss's base.
Rogueleader89
Profile Joined April 2010
United States27 Posts
May 15 2010 23:14 GMT
#159
Since you will not accept the counters proposed here my suggestion for you is that you go play protoss or zerg and copy whatever is beating you now. See how your opponents counter it when you do it, then if you still want to play terran you will know the counters you are looking for.
Yasser
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany27 Posts
May 15 2010 23:18 GMT
#160
1st: Please edit your profil and give yourself a birthday my guess is something like 31.12.2001.

2nd: vs protoss I play: normal opening - 10 depot 12 rax 15 OC...
into 2 rax(first teclab only for updates second rafinery) 1 fact
i push with 4 tanks(siege) and only marins (update stim and shield)

worked for me vs plat and gold(no 4 gate push though)



AeonFlux
Profile Joined March 2010
Ukraine101 Posts
May 15 2010 23:19 GMT
#161
push with 4 tanks and graded rines its about 20 mins when toss has 5 expos?

User was banned for this post.
IrT4nkz
Profile Joined May 2010
229 Posts
May 16 2010 00:09 GMT
#162
Wow lol, this guy has
1. Bad grammer (can you even comprehend what he's trying to tell us?)
2. Rageeeeeee, lots of caps and expects people to help him
3. Utter failure
cant u get that THING THAT EVERYBODY USES CANT BE GOOD CAS EVERYBODY CANT BE TOP1 IN WORLD. top1 is one player and he useses his own tactics and DONT CARE WHAT EVERYBODY USES.

4. No respect for the people on TL

It really doubts me that he is even in platinum which he claims he is....
Lastly, if you think this game is unbalanced, you are welcome to stop playing the beta and not buy the game :D, one less troll

Bair
Profile Joined May 2010
United States698 Posts
May 16 2010 00:24 GMT
#163
On May 16 2010 07:55 AeonFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 07:52 k20a wrote:
this has got to be a troll

why dont u check my replays and u ll see that i lost all my last games to toss and zerg (and won almost all games vs terran)


We will just see that you gave us some replays of you winning some TvT matches. With the level of skill you are likely to have with that grammar, I think you just cheese against copper leaguers and it works because they are in copper.

I might watch the replays, but you are so disrespectful that I do not see the point. If you wanted help you might listen to some of the people on here, not just state they are all wrong because you are not good enough to pull off what they are talking about.
In Roaches I Rust.
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 16 2010 00:33 GMT
#164
On May 16 2010 09:09 IrT4nkz wrote:
Wow lol, this guy has
1. Bad grammer (can you even comprehend what he's trying to tell us?)
2. Rageeeeeee, lots of caps and expects people to help him
3. Utter failure
Show nested quote +
cant u get that THING THAT EVERYBODY USES CANT BE GOOD CAS EVERYBODY CANT BE TOP1 IN WORLD. top1 is one player and he useses his own tactics and DONT CARE WHAT EVERYBODY USES.

4. No respect for the people on TL

It really doubts me that he is even in platinum which he claims he is....
Lastly, if you think this game is unbalanced, you are welcome to stop playing the beta and not buy the game :D, one less troll


congrats... you have spotted that he is trolling.
zomgzergrush
Profile Joined August 2008
United States923 Posts
May 16 2010 00:39 GMT
#165
Use more than one unit at a time?
Bronze skipping straight to Diamond in 40 games retail release. Bnet 2.0 ladder really takes it's sweet time to think about that league placement.
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 16 2010 00:43 GMT
#166
seriously though, is there a way to report this thread to a mod?
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
May 16 2010 00:48 GMT
#167
On May 16 2010 08:14 AeonFlux wrote:
its not cheese i just use game mechanics as best as possible.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Manbear
Profile Joined August 2008
Canada306 Posts
May 16 2010 01:01 GMT
#168
On May 16 2010 09:43 kerpal wrote:
seriously though, is there a way to report this thread to a mod?


I am actually really amazed that it hasn't been closed yet this guy is shitting on any advice given to him and is being a very obvious troll
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 16 2010 01:07 GMT
#169
On May 16 2010 10:01 Manbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2010 09:43 kerpal wrote:
seriously though, is there a way to report this thread to a mod?


I am actually really amazed that it hasn't been closed yet this guy is shitting on any advice given to him and is being a very obvious troll

pm'd a mod. doesn't seem like the kinda thread that would continue this long. if i'm wrong i guess they'll let me know in their own special way!
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
May 16 2010 01:40 GMT
#170
Why did it take 9 pages for someone to call in back up? Brb calling mortars
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