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First off let me say that I am a Protoss player, and I don't think marauders are overpowered in PvT at all, but watching LZGamer's 3rd game against Ret on the HDH invitational was extremely frustrating for me! For those of you who haven't seen it, here are the videos:
+ Show Spoiler +
During the game LZ just continuously pumps more and more marauders. He gets a couple thors and some medivacs, but despite seeing that the zerg army consists of more than roaches, in fact the majority is hydra, he just keeps on pumping marauders. Ever since SC1 I've hated zerg so I always root for the other side, and as I'm watching this I'm bashing my head against the wall and thinking to myself WTF are you doing man build up some seige tanks or something to counter those hydra! He gets to 200/200 with just marauders, medivacs and 2 thor, and goes up against a 200/200 army of zerg with mostly hydra, roaches to tank the damage, and some infestors for fungal.
Then the battle happens, and LZ mistakenly runs his medivacs up front of his army where they are fungal growthed and taken out quickly, yet the fight isn't as one sided as it should have been. The marauders actually did a ton of damage to the army and probably would have won had his medivacs been in the back of his army instead of in the front!
As a Protoss player, I love it when Terrans go mass marauder because I have the available tools to counter them (immortals when low in numbers, colossi when the numbers build up). You would THINK that Hydras with roaches to tank damage and infestor support would demolish a pure marauder army, but ret caught a lucky break in catching his medivacs out of place and even then he had trouble finishing the army off.
Is this why Terrans have an easy time against Zerg but the numbers against Protoss aren't as strong since mass marauders is less effective against them? (Protoss have a 54% win rate against T according to Blizzard's latest numbers)
Can somebody explain this madness to me??
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marauders are a good vs all ground units unit. especially with the healing boost of medivacs. you throw in a few thor because they one shot hydra and get rid of the muta threat and your army is incredibly solid.
terrans need to be more diverse against protoss because protoss' choice for air to ground (voids) is armored which isn't directly countered by thors.
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Is this why Terrans have an easy time against Zerg but the numbers against Protoss aren't as strong? (Protoss have a 54% win rate against T according to Blizzard's latest numbers)
Lol bias.
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Marauder/thor/medivac is a very solid army composition against zerg, especially against hydra/roach. People might bitch about marauder spam or whatever, but it works and that's why people do it. I thought this was well known. The zerg generally needs to land good parasites or fungal growth to win the battle rather than just a moving, like you said ret did.
Or... make broodlords.
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I find that I have an incredibly tough time whenever I face Hydras. Building Thors in TvZ is just giving the unit to the Zerg thanks to the new Infestors, so that is out of the picture. Marines die horribly to Fungal Growth, so the bio-blob is all but dead as well. The hydras simply do so much damage that anything I throw at them melts. I tried a Hellion/Marauder build, but the Hellions are so fragile that they never get to shoot more than once in a fight. So far I haven't found anything that can beat Hydra+Infestor effectively.
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On May 04 2010 17:18 Nilaus wrote:
I find that I have an incredibly tough time whenever I face Hydras. Building Thors in TvZ is just giving the unit to the Zerg thanks to the new Infestors, so that is out of the picture. Marines die horribly to Fungal Growth, so the bio-blob is all but dead as well. The hydras simply do so much damage that anything I throw at them melts. I tried a Hellion/Marauder build, but the Hellions are so fragile that they never get to shoot more than once in a fight. So far I haven't found anything that can beat Hydra+Infestor effectively.
Siege tanks??
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Why don't you just play some Terran and see why Siege Tanks are a huge gamble?
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I stopped building hydras in ZvT a while back. From my expirience Marauders beat hydras for cost with stim, and if there's medivacs, they dominate. If you need Infestors for Hydra to work, you're probably better off with ling/bane/inf, aaannnd it's much easier to tech to Broods from that.
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Yes it does, and just shows why out of the super trio Roach/Immortal/Marauder, Marauder is easily the strongest unit and has to be nerfed imo tbh.
Mass Marauder with Stim and Medivac Support easily takes down a massive amount of Hydra. That are slower, and bigger. Marauders with Stim will nicely form a line or an arch quickly due to stim and small size, while Hydras stumble around in their big size and slow movement speed. (Some people might dis-agree with this, but this actually has happened to me quite often where a Marauder force is hurling rockets at me at full force in matter of seconds, while my Hydras are still trying to form an arch, and it makes a big difference.)
And dear god if couple of Hydras happen to start attacking a Marauder that is getting healed by 2-3 medivacs. It will stand there smiling.
And it's one of the reasons why Mech play is so ridicolously strong. You force a Zerg to go Hydras or Roaches which seem to suck against everything except Banshees. And the fact also is that when a Terran goes for Mech, it seems he can Tech switch easier then a Zerg can. (Hellion / Thor / Banshee opening into Mass Marauder / Medivac for example. Most likely still using 1 fac to pump Thors for anti-muta.)
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On May 04 2010 19:40 NonFactor wrote:
And dear god if couple of Hydras happen to start attacking a Marauder that is getting healed by 2-3 medivacs. It will stand there smiling.
Can units be healed by more than one medivac at a time? I'm pretty sure that I tested this long ago and that they can't.
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On May 04 2010 22:43 DeCoup wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 19:40 NonFactor wrote:
And dear god if couple of Hydras happen to start attacking a Marauder that is getting healed by 2-3 medivacs. It will stand there smiling.
Can units be healed by more than one medivac at a time? I'm pretty sure that I tested this long ago and that they can't.
You are correct.
What I typed out came out terribly wrong, what I meant was that ''When attacking marauders that are getting healed by 2-3 medivacs.''
My mind was set on single instead of plural for some reason.
Why I say is this because usually when you stim, the medivacs just pick up random damaged units to heal, but if they happen to start healing the ones in the front row that are attacking, they become insanely strong tanks. I'd like to know how many Hydras minium it takes to kill a Marauder getting healed and what time it takes. My guess would be two, but it would take a small awhile.
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Marauders dominate roach and hydra. Infestors, banelings, and speedlings dominate marauders. In addition, if you manage to unburrow roach on top of their army you'll be 3x as effective.
Vs pure mara/thor I'd just mass infestor/speedling.
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Personally, I think this is partly because Hydras have been nerfed so much. They lost 10 HP more recently, and a lot of DPS a few patches ago. I seem to recall them stacking up much better vs. marauders then; you really needed more marines in your ball, or tanks, or something.
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Recently I tried to go MmM + tanks against a zerg, I got raped... My marines and marauders got owned by banelings/zerglings, my tanks were neuralparasited by his infestors and a ton, i mean ton of hydras flanked my army. It is maybe my fault for bad placement, but im learning  .
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On May 04 2010 23:20 Floophead_III wrote:
Marauders dominate roach and hydra. Infestors, banelings, and speedlings dominate marauders. In addition, if you manage to unburrow roach on top of their army you'll be 3x as effective.
Vs pure mara/thor I'd just mass infestor/speedling.
A large number of lings is good vs small number of marauders but u need 4 zerglings to 1 marauder which in terms of supply isn't efficient and thats presuming no micro. The marauders could easily move shoot move shoot and then you would need alot more zerglings and completely surround on them
banlings are very efficient vs alot of marauders presuming they dont move and shoot or u can get them close to them quickly (overlord drop/burrow)
obviously presuming alot of stuff here but marauders are very stong vs zerg ground units. but then im new to sc and rts games so i could be wrong
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Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssss.
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Calgary25986 Posts
Terrible thread. OP is 900x longer than necessary. Nothing to discuss.
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EPT
