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I want to make a formula to compare new sc2 apm and old sc1 apm calculated by bwchart, i need data about players with the old and new apm, for example:
killerone sc1 apm: 80 sc2 apm: 50
gosureaver sc1 apm:160 sc2 apm 0
killermachine: sc1 apm: 230 sc2 apm: 160
me: sc1 apm: 180 sc2 apm: 100
need feedback! =) please post ur apms here.
I think many of the innecesary(spam) apm are not calculated, and becasue of less needings about hkey, many players are using more action in move instead of hkeys.
or sc2 players are playing slow?? =0
EDIT:
From your data, i made this graphic::
using a simplified lineal correlation the best way of compares the sc2 and sc1 apms seems:
APM SC1= APM SC2 * 1,8
Maybe with more data from users or more accuracy in those, the graphic would be fine, but seems good for me.
How u can explain that ? idk, maybe many actions doesnt count in the sc2 apm calculator program, and the time parameter are different in the "faster" speed of sc2 and "fastest" speed from sc1.
Any thoughts about it?
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at sc1 i was 240-280
at sc2 (according to the chart you see in a replay) im 150-170
i'm very curious how sc2's implemented system calculates apm too. i am more than certain i play faster than 150-170 in sc2.. (i would say im actually at 220 or something)
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I believe its a function of them having the game set on faster for playing...thus one minute of game time is actually occuring in less than one real minute. When i do the replay it looks like "fast" is the closest to matching teh game clock.
I believe this is a big part of why everyones APM reads as lower than SC1.
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Someone posted a thread saying something like you have to multiply your APM by a certain number to get your true APM. I can't find the thread atm though.. Was it a thread..?
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WC3 160-180
SC2 95-110 in SC2 time
It definitely counts all actions. I don't spam, but when I watch replays of good players they generally do and there apm for the first minute is like 350.
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i've seen it said alot that the APM chart is normalized to the Fast speed rather than Faster and to get your real APM you need to multiply by 1.4
i wasn't competitive at all in sc1 but assuming the above's true i've gone from 110 to 130ish
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no offence, but your idea is stupid.
It is a different game, there are new mechanics, new things in the ui, multicasting, MBS, unlimited control groups, etc etc.
People are unfamiliar with the game, I don't even know what you want to achieve with your "formula"
To the other people, multiple the APM the game says with 1,25 and you will know your real apm
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On April 04 2010 05:46 Yoren wrote:
I believe its a function of them having the game set on faster for playing...thus one minute of game time is actually occuring in less than one real minute. When i do the replay it looks like "fast" is the closest to matching teh game clock.
I believe this is a big part of why everyones APM reads as lower than SC1.
pretty sure it's around 35% ish or 37 somewhere around there
100 =~135
150=~200
200=~270
rough guesstimation of course
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I think its not just a multiplier, that why i want to collect more data, and maybe its stupid, but maybe not XD Its not a totally different game, and apm can say somethig about play sense, mobility, and tactics.
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United States4126 Posts
I posted this formula in another thread which no one responded to 
I'm not even that great at math so the logic behind this formula is probably wrong.
BW APM / 1.2 = SC2 APM x 1.38
Though the different UI should make it a little inaccurate.
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again, i'm not 100% sure on this, but i'm fairly certain that the game played on faster has a multiplier for apm/research/build times
look at the queens inject larvae description
puts a buff on the hatchery for 40 seconds costing 25 energy, however in faster you can spam the ability every 25 (26 i think actually) seconds
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On April 04 2010 05:53 Kinky wrote:I posted this formula in another thread which no one responded to I'm not even that great at math so the logic behind this formula is probably wrong. BW APM / 1.2 = SC2 APM x 1.38 Though the different UI should make it a little inaccurate.
that formula doesnt make me sense... u can use one multiplier instead:
BW APM= SC2APM x 1,66
but where u get this number? i wanna find it using basic statistics from tl.net users.
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i rly think apm isnt same then in bw ^^ i can spam as high as i want and i never get over 350 even with massive spam ^^
sc1 350-420
sc2 90-140
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Mine actually went up lol.
Sc1: 200
Sc2: 300.
This is with using the x1.35 multiplier because replays in SC2 show at Fast Speed.
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There is no way you are averaging 300 APM in SC2...
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Isn't it going on a lower speed.
Meaning the APM is measured at a lower speed setting than you are playing at. So technically its not APM in actual minuets but in game minuets.
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bw:150-180
sc2:150-160
im pretty sure im actually faster in sc2 than bw O_o
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United States4126 Posts
On April 04 2010 05:55 No_eL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 05:53 Kinky wrote:I posted this formula in another thread which no one responded to I'm not even that great at math so the logic behind this formula is probably wrong. BW APM / 1.2 = SC2 APM x 1.38 Though the different UI should make it a little inaccurate. that formula doesnt make me sense... u can use one multiplier instead: BW APM= SC2APM x 1,66 but where u get this number? i wanna find it using basic statistics from tl.net users.
I read a thread a while ago saying Fastest on BW was 1.2x real speed and 1.38x was from http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Game_Speed
Btw, mine is 200 BW apm and 125 SC2 apm
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From what I noticed from my replays, (not sure didn't test it fully), is when you spam a button and u get "Not enough minerals" or something simulair like that, it won't count as a Action.
SC1: 120-140
SC2: 75-100
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sc1: 170 average
sc2: 120 average
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there is any program to see sc2 games apm?
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On April 04 2010 06:20 arew wrote:
there is any program to see sc2 games apm?
You can view APM in replays.
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On April 04 2010 06:13 Kinky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 05:55 No_eL wrote:On April 04 2010 05:53 Kinky wrote:I posted this formula in another thread which no one responded to I'm not even that great at math so the logic behind this formula is probably wrong. BW APM / 1.2 = SC2 APM x 1.38 Though the different UI should make it a little inaccurate. that formula doesnt make me sense... u can use one multiplier instead: BW APM= SC2APM x 1,66 but where u get this number? i wanna find it using basic statistics from tl.net users. I read a thread a while ago saying Fastest on BW was 1.2x real speed and 1.38x was from http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Game_SpeedBtw, mine is 200 BW apm and 125 SC2 apm
I think BWChart uses 1 minute real time on Fastest for its "minute" (all other timings in BWChart do this--check the build times in BWChart then go check them in a replay if you want to confirm) ... so BWChart APM is actually actions per minute on Fastest.
So the division by 1.2 shouldn't be there in Kinky's first formula.
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SC1 - 110-130
SC2 - 80-100
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On April 04 2010 06:26 crate wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:13 Kinky wrote:On April 04 2010 05:55 No_eL wrote:On April 04 2010 05:53 Kinky wrote:I posted this formula in another thread which no one responded to I'm not even that great at math so the logic behind this formula is probably wrong. BW APM / 1.2 = SC2 APM x 1.38 Though the different UI should make it a little inaccurate. that formula doesnt make me sense... u can use one multiplier instead: BW APM= SC2APM x 1,66 but where u get this number? i wanna find it using basic statistics from tl.net users. I read a thread a while ago saying Fastest on BW was 1.2x real speed and 1.38x was from http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Game_SpeedBtw, mine is 200 BW apm and 125 SC2 apm I think BWChart uses 1 minute real time on Fastest for its "minute" (all other timings in BWChart do this--check the build times in BWChart then go check them in a replay if you want to confirm) ... so BWChart APM is actually actions per minute on Fastest. So the division by 1.2 shouldn't be there in Kinky's first formula. He's right. One day I played a game on slow for shits and giggles, and we both had a zillion apm when we looked at the rep in BW chart. When the replay was sped up to fastest, we both looked so ridiculously pro. BWChart definitely uses a real minute, not a game minute. I have no idea about SC2.
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On April 04 2010 06:22 wooozy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:20 arew wrote:
there is any program to see sc2 games apm? You can view APM in replays.
Thanks =)
SC1 - 260-320
SC2 - 110
ROFL :D
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Ok I tested it...
"Not enough minirals" clicking doesn't count, even though you shouldn't get that many of this over the period of the game, apart from start, or just when you click twice your hotkey when training a unit, but that is what, max 5 APM less? but I guess i sums up with the lower APM from SC2
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updated with your numbers =)
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Your graph clearly does not pass the vertical line test.
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Nice idea with the graph, but I would suggest that you just plot the points, with no line.
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sc1 90-130
sc2 120-150
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On April 04 2010 07:24 synapse wrote:
Your graph clearly does not pass the vertical line test.
you are right, i think that we need more accurate data.
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How do we know that bwchart and SC2 consider the same set of things as "actions" ?
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lag affects the apm quite a bit...even the slightest lag...i dont feel like i can go even CLOSE to what i had in sc1, which was pretty slow
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sc1: 200-220 APM
sc2: 130-150 APM
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game is still growing and so is the skills of its players. When the skill cap is raised, one of the reasons for that will be the speed of the players.
Of course, this might not account for everything. I'm guessing we'll see a decrease in apm from sc1 to sc2, but right now I think the margin is inaccurate.
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Keep in mind that the APM meter in replays is wrong when you play on faster.
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Spam APM is shown by the replay analysis dealy-bob 100% sure. It's really easy to test and confirm in about 60 seconds if you disagree. My APM was 230-270 in sc1 with a pretty uniform line. I do spam at the start of games, but my APM doesn't really dip, and usually spikes really high during big battles.
My apm dropped to 160-170ish in SC2. The first reason I think is because I spend a lot more time thinking about what I should do in SC2 and in SC1 I more instinctively play because I've put down a lot more SC1 games than SC2. The MBS system helps a ton because (especially in 2v2) it's common for me to have 15+ factory and 10+ barracks when i play terran. I would use a lot more APM to macro those in SC1 than SC2 for sure.
Also removal of spider mines i think dumped my apm a lot more... hellion take micro, but not nearly the same amount of apm to use full effective.
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MBS and automine are both big APM-savers.
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sc1: 180
sc2: 110
lawl?
edit: yea i agree with the above post, with automine, the ability to select multiple buildings, and "smart casting", you dont need as much apm.
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wc3: 120-150
sc2: ~90 (lower APM in the early game, cuz i dont spam^^)
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United States4126 Posts
On April 04 2010 09:12 DrivE wrote:
sc1: 180
sc2: 110
lawl?
edit: yea i agree with the above post, with automine, the ability to select multiple buildings, and "smart casting", you dont need as much apm.
They save APM which then goes to other things like micro, which would increase the apm overall.
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In Brood War you could fly all over the place with f1,f2,f3 and it was also 2d so it was easier to just move faster on the screen. In starcraft 2 it is abit more slow and you cannot use the f-keys to improve you apm alot.
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WC3: 90-100
SC2: 70-85
So my "actual" APM is already higher after only 1 week :D
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SC1- 120 (160 with terran)
SC2- 130
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oh boy here we go again, just play the game, ur apm's ur apm, much like naruto and chakra u must focus within to find your true potential, ep 89. g;'day
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On your graph, you should incorporate the correlation (r^2) of the data points to the line. Makes the data a little more useful.
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I'm willing to bet zerg players experienced a loss in APM seeing as how zerg players have more null actions than other players
every time we spam "S" to select larvae when there is no larvae left then we have a null action which was counted in bw charts (but was noted as a null action)
this is with the 1.38 multiplier
BW: 240
sc2: 200
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yeh, I am getting consistantly lower APM when playing zerg than I do as protoss.. like 30-40 lower.
Ive only played about 5 protoss 1v1s so far, but my APM hovers around 100-120.. where on BW it was like 130-150.
Interesting.
I still dont see how people are getting 200+, esp earlygame waiting for your drones to finish (in both games).. Must be really spamming hardcore. My apm is dead at the beginning, like 50, then doubles in the mid/lategame where theres actually stuff to do.
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How to increase your apm in SC2:
Step 1: Assign one of your worker to hotkey #1, and the command center to hotkey #2.
Step 2: Repeatedly press 1,2,1,2,1,2 etc
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!
Congratz, your APM should now be over 200, and you're a pro now.
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MBS factors in a HUGE difference in APM I believe. I also think a lot of different actions may be bundled instead of counted individually anymore
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mine goes like
SC1:220.
SC2: 190.
Small difference
I guess it's something to do with the EAPM (just a guess). I have a mediocre SC1 APM of 220, but the EAPM is above 150 mostly, meaning I do not earn APM by repeatedly clicking the ground or hotkey selecting, but rather necessary micros and alot macros. To my best knowledge, many players who easily have over 300 apm, do not pass 120 in EAPM, and their APM drop greatly from SC1 to SC2.
So I'm thinking of the EAPM theory. Anyone?
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SC1: 220-250
SC2: 190-230 / 262-317 w/ 1.38 multi O_O
feels like i'm faster in sc2.
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Sc1: 175
Sc2: 100ish
This is based on the built in APM by blizzard... Also, this is just from one day of playing the beta. I have a long way to go
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On April 04 2010 11:24 madjerry wrote:
mine goes like
SC1:220.
SC2: 190.
Small difference
I guess it's something to do with the EAPM (just a guess). I have a mediocre SC1 APM of 220, but the EAPM is above 150 mostly, meaning I do not earn APM by repeatedly clicking the ground or hotkey selecting, but rather necessary micros and alot macros. To my best knowledge, many players who easily have over 300 apm, do not pass 120 in EAPM, and their APM drop greatly from SC1 to SC2.
So I'm thinking of the EAPM theory. Anyone?
yes, i really think that the apm its calculated in a different way by blizzard, but for the common of the people, the apm in sc2 its nearly 1,5-2,0 times slower than SC1
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SC1: 120 maybe?
SC2: 100
As Zerg. Was pretty slow in SC1, a long time ago though, but are certainly quite a bit faster in SC2.
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My APM in brood war was around 250 and now it's 200 in SC2
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SC1: 220-240
SC2: 120-150
WC3:140-160
I really don't like my apm in sc2. It feels like Im doing everything but still my apm is really low.
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On April 04 2010 14:44 G3nXsiS wrote:
SC1: 220-240
SC2: 120-150
WC3:140-160
I really don't like my apm in sc2. It feels like Im doing everything but still my apm is really low.
You're clearly not spamming enough. Remember, why use one click when seven will produce the same result. Anyway...
SC1: ~423
SC2: ~316
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On April 04 2010 06:11 Jlab wrote:
Isn't it going on a lower speed.
Meaning the APM is measured at a lower speed setting than you are playing at. So technically its not APM in actual minuets but in game minuets.
Yea, I think it has something to do with game seconds vs. real seconds
APM is calculated on game seconds, which is equal to real time only on the "fast" speed setting. But since all league games are played on "faster", i think your in game APM actually turns out to be Actions Per 45 seconds (ish) ?
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it would be nice if blizzard fixed this APM bug with a simple formula
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On April 04 2010 07:24 synapse wrote:
Your graph clearly does not pass the vertical line test.
HAW HAW I love math jokes :D:D
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scbw:180-200
warcraft3:180-210
sc2:160-180(without multiplier, so that would make it 210-240)
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I barely played SC1 when I was younger and I average games around 80 APM and I'm 4th plat in my league.
Different game.
Different animal.
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Sigh at that post.
Why are you trying to find the reasons for lower apm in the way the game calculates apm?
According to your "math" I would be doing 200+apm every game, wich is just blatantly wrong.
People have less apm because the game is new, and because of all the new mechanics.
This has been discussed so many times, you multiply it with (what was 1,25 or so) because of the faster speed setting, and there you have your apm.
If there was a difference in the way the game calculates apm, you are NOT gonna find it by comparing people their sc1 to their sc2 apm, but by doing actual testing (aka getting some sort of external program to test your apm).
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My apm actually went up.
sc1: 140
sc2: 180
I feel like I play alot better in SC2 though.
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wc3: 150
BW: 95
sc2: 90
these are my average apm. but the odd part is that i barley ever play wc3 and I don't really spam but still its by far my highest apm and BW witch i played for a pretty long time now I can't even break a hundred.
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On April 04 2010 06:13 Tiwo wrote:
From what I noticed from my replays, (not sure didn't test it fully), is when you spam a button and u get "Not enough minerals" or something simulair like that, it won't count as a Action.
SC1: 120-140
SC2: 75-100
If you're spamming "S" for scv for 10 seconds it won't count as an action indeed.(and not having the minerals that is)
SC1: 150
SC2: 110-125
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I've had about 220 APM in SC1 and I have about 250 in SC2 - I think you can definitely need high APM and it's equally as important as in SC1...
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On April 04 2010 06:01 Dia wrote:
sc1: 140-180
sc2: 100-120
same here ! maybe 150-190 sc1
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My APM went up in SC2
SC1: 150-180
SC2: 180-230
I have not multiplied anything, just raw data from replays.
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Haven't read the whole thread but I know for a fact that sc2 doesn't register certain forms of spam. For example if you just spam your "build scv"-button: sssssssssssssssssssssssssssss, you will have 0 apm during that time in the replay. And also the whole thing with faster/normal game speed but I don't know the exact numbers of that.
anyway.
BW: 160
SC2: 100
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I believe two things aren't counted:
- selections (they aren't action) so spamming through your control groups won't help
- "failed" actions, spamming a build command when you have only money to queue one unit will be counted as one command because all the other ones fail.
This severely lowers APM because it only counts effective in-game actions as opposed to sc1 actions which is anything.
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sorry to res here, but from the beginning, people here have been using random multipliers to their sc2 apm numbers to attest or to compare to their sc1 apm
if 45 seconds is to a minute in faster, then your apm is goign to be 25% slower
200 apm averaged over 15 minutes means you've done 3000 actions on average
to me, this sounds the most reasonable when thinking about the numbers
lke its been mentioned before though,
two different games, two different sets of values
i'd rather compare the APM between the players in the given game
you'll obviously see a difference between the play of a 150apm player and a 50apm player
but to what effect?
it feels like there's so many tools to help 'slower' players play just as well as the 'faster' ones
which isn't necessarily a bad thing at all
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SC: 120 apm
SC2: 150 apm
I was only C- in SC while I am top 10 platinum in SC2.
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On April 05 2010 09:34 wintergt wrote:
I believe two things aren't counted:
- selections (they aren't action) so spamming through your control groups won't help
- "failed" actions, spamming a build command when you have only money to queue one unit will be counted as one command because all the other ones fail.
This severely lowers APM because it only counts effective in-game actions as opposed to sc1 actions which is anything. spamming through ur control groups gets counted 100%
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well u can always test is it in game minutes or real minutes by going to play vs computer with speed fastest and spam for minute or 2 and check apm and then do same with speed slowest and see if theres big differense. and if ur apm is like 1-2k in second game u can also take SS and show of everybody that u have big apm ^^
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Sc1 apm: 110-120 Sc2 apm: 50-60
yeah bout half, then again I haven't played beta much, ran through placements, got silver, played about 3 more games.
I like sc1 atm more.
I'm relatively new to all this though, been playing sc1 for about 1.5 months
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What are you trying to find out?
How much SC2 APM is needed to do the same things that BW APM would require?
Or what your displayed SC2 APM would be in BW with the exact same amount of actions?
If it's the latter then that seems to just be the factor between game time and play speed, 1,4.
Just did a test where I clicked a counter and right clicked rally point at the beat of a 200 BPM metronome while timing it. In 1:00.14 I had done 200 clicks and the game showed me at 140-143 APM the entire time.
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man who gives a flying fuck? People are too focused on APM, play the god damn game and enjoy it. jesus christ.
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On May 11 2010 18:06 rAize wrote:
man who gives a flying fuck? People are too focused on APM, play the god damn game and enjoy it. jesus christ.
Agree.
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Never played SC: BW and I can't see my APM since my replays won't work So does anyone know how to fix that replay bug? But I guess it's around 100 or less (definitely not higher).
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On May 11 2010 17:56 Lobo2me wrote:
What are you trying to find out?
How much SC2 APM is needed to do the same things that BW APM would require?
Or what your displayed SC2 APM would be in BW with the exact same amount of actions?
If it's the latter then that seems to just be the factor between game time and play speed, 1,4.
Just did a test where I clicked a counter and right clicked rally point at the beat of a 200 BPM metronome while timing it. In 1:00.14 I had done 200 clicks and the game showed me at 140-143 APM the entire time.
This is APM-discussion the true TL-way, with graphs and excessive theorycrafting, and its AWESOME. I love that you actually did that with a metronome.
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SCbw 160-180
SC2 50-70.............
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I was ~200apm in SC1, I'm honestly not sure in SC2. I think my spamming early game affects it too much to tell. :c I guess it's probably around 160 or so though.
As a side note, I think playing SC2 has somehow increased my SC1 apm. Normally my peak is like 200 at the end of a game, but I played a match the other day and it was 230 instead. HMMMM.
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people say its just game speed that messes up apm, don't forget that you're not indivually clicking on 10 buildings and you're not constantly moving 4 control groups of units around, which makes a huge difference
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BTW, you need to multiply the in-game APM meter's APM by 1.333333 (repeating) get your true APM.
So with that in mind, my avg apm in BW was ~ 140, and it's about 150-160 in SC2.
edit: and I spam a lot. I imagine if I had to individually macro from several buildings/hatcheries rather than hotkey them all to the same key it would be higher and if I had to use multiple control groups for movement (though I do so for attacking), it would definitely be higher.
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anyone compare with sc2gears? (http://sites.google.com/site/sc2gears/)
which is a starcraft 2 parser+analyser. So far it graphs/looks at apm, hotkeys and build order.
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sc1 - 175
sc2 - 140 (after multiplier)
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Perhaps Blizzard found away to get rid of useless spam and only calculate certain types of actions.
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah right. I would like to know how they calculate it too.
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Now that I have more experience in SC2, my SC2 APM is about the same as my SC1 APM:
SC1: ~225
SC2: ~220 in some of the recent games I've checked (is there an easy way to just look at the APM of a game without having to watch the replay to the end?)
Edit: This is without doing any multiplication on my end, just looking at the in-game SC2 apm meter.
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Didn't read the thread carefully, but this would be my explanation:
In SC1, high effective APM is not achieved by just clicking wildly, but by knowing the game so well that you always know where to click within a split second.
People are just not that familiar with SC2 yet. I predict that given some time, people will be just as fast in S2 as they are now in SC1. This APM will go to sick multitasking instead of clicking mass gateways.
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SC1: 180
SC2: 140
after multipilier its the same 
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Why not do something better? like creating a script that clicks 10 times every minute for 5 minutes, and running it in SC1 and SC2
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I get like 250 apm sc2, 350-370 sc1.
There seems like theres less to do, but I can't slow down now.
I think everyone thinks it's 1.35x or something right? or 1.5x?
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theres a program called "sc2gears" that shows you your apm, its like bwchart for sc2. anyways, my apm in bw was anywhere from 180-250 when i was at my best and depending on the matchup, and in sc2 it seems to be 100-120ish. I think the reason why everyone's apm is lower ATM is just because nobody has played the game for 1000 hours and mastered doing everything at top speed in the mid/late game, it seems that everyone over 150 apm right now is just spamming needlessly instead of actually trying to learn the game.
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LMFAO. 
People and their APM issues.
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On May 11 2010 21:48 danbel1005 wrote:LMFAO. People and their APM issues.
It helps people like to me get better at the game when there are a lack of people that actually give feedback when your sucking.
apm 60 - 70 SC2
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My average SC2 APM at the end of replays is around 70, but peaks at around 200 in battle (need to get better with my hotkeys for buildings / locations).
Never measured it in BW.
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Here is the math behind the APM difference. You can easily prove that this is correct by going into a game and choosing slower speed setting and easily getting over 1500 apm. If you have any questions or concerns post or pm!
![[image loading]](http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4052/001yfvy.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/2wr3sxh.jpg)
Inspiration.
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SC1 : 210
SC2 : 165
not exactly sure on sc2 one, changes every game lol
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90% of the difference comes from 'invalid' commands. 0p9p0p9p will not result in 6 actions if you don't have enough minerals. The other 10% is from the reduced number of clicks for macro 4d5d6d7d8d can be w shift d click click etc. 6sdddddd and so on. Despite this i think that sc2 is as challenging of a game for speed or even harder. The macro mechanics don't only require you to click now but to shift your focus for 2-3 seconds and then shift it back.. which despite the 4-6 actions is really hard.
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sc1 : 120
sc2 : 80
Play Terran only.
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bw~300
sc2~230
not using any multipliers, 230 is what the in-game apm bar shows
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i had 220apm in war3 average.. my average in sc2 is like 110
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On May 12 2010 02:54 LagLovah wrote:
i had 220apm in war3 average.. my average in sc2 is like 110
lies!~ your avg apm in war3 was like 110 as well
my war3 apm was 280.. sc2 apm... 150? no offence to this game.. but it almost seems like u do less... (definately less microing units in and out of battle) no surrounds... very seldom do u get a chance to "trip" units running away... yeah.. just a diff game with diff micro.. war3 also had smart-cast so nothing new there...
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I've played WC3 mostlyI could get round 200+ in broodwar as well last year when I tried it again, . Yet, in SC2 it is so hard to get high apm and it decreases so much the times you dont use much actions. Why does it decrease so much Ah well some good players still keep around 200.
Those whose who get 200+ in BW/WC3 are not making less. Actually you make more but the APM system of SC2 is weird. Go back to WC3 or BW you are likely to have more APM after playing SC2
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That JPEG is incorrect. Test this yourself but multiplying time shown for a game on a score screen by 1.33333 (etc). It will equal (rather, approximate quite closely) the time displayed for the replay. The modifier is 1.3333333.
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I sat in game, with a stop watch, and timed 5 minutes on the replay with time on the stop watch then averaged that and came up with 42.5seconds/game min
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Hm. Perhaps i misread my time, then.
Or hell, maybe the score screen is bugged too... not likely, but it wouldn't really surprise me.
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yeah i'm looking at the score screen right now and most of my games only have minutes and not even seconds..
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Very interesting ... Coz at SC BW my APM was avg 110 and in SC2 it shows as 120. Does that means that I'm faster in SC2 ?!
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SC1: 140
SC2: 80
Mind you, SC2 APM has to be multiplied, because Blizzard messed up with the game speeds.
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it definitely counts spam because i have like 500 apm in the beginning when spamming really hard.
SC1: ~140
SC2: ~100
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On May 12 2010 05:16 Issorlol wrote:
That JPEG is incorrect. Test this yourself but multiplying time shown for a game on a score screen by 1.33333 (etc). It will equal (rather, approximate quite closely) the time displayed for the replay. The modifier is 1.3333333.
I ran some tests and my results say you're wrong : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117215
let me quote myself for simplicity's sakes :
Well, they are not totally worthless, a unit that takes "20" seconds to build will be 2/3 as fast as a unit that takes "30" seconds - no matter what game speed you're on.
Said differently, as long as you stick to a relative comparison (you know, ratios and stuff), everything is just fine, but as soon as you need absolute values (such as APM, real build time, real DPS, etc.) or do some calculations and whatnot - just forget about it unless you're ready to make some conversions that are not perfectly exact.
On May 12 2010 05:28 kevin349 wrote:
yeah i'm looking at the score screen right now and most of my games only have minutes and not even seconds..
over 10 minutes, it stops displaying the seconds
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oops, sorry for double post
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kevin349 sent me this:
their maths are good, but the results are wrong.. the problem is how bwchart and actual blizzard's apm program are calculating APM. I think that "real apm" from sc:bw its more similar to actual apm, maybe many actions are just dont being considerated by blizzard software.
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The multiplier of 1.4 is somewhat close to the slope of your trend line at 1.8. I think that sc2 is recording all the actions, what I think people are not realizing is things take less clicks in sc2 than they did in sc1. Imagine a terran with 4 rax in sc1 and 4 in sc2 to build 1 unit from each would take 8 actions in sc1 but only 5 in sc2. Also, each worker doesn't need to be selected and then ordered to mine or harvest gas.
I am confident that the apm reported by sc2 replays reports the same actions that bw chart (minus the fact that bw chart didn't take the first 120 seconds into account for overall apm)
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SC1 = 200-230
SC2 = 140-160
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SC1 about 80
SC2 about 200..
Maybe I just got better? Idk
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SC1: 140 SC2: 170. My fingers are faster now and I honestly find SC2 zerg to require the same if not more APM.
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before you do your analysis first you must normalize SC2 APM to real time. That means taking the APM people give you and dividing by .75 . This will put both of the APM's in the same time domain :D
ooh .70XXXXX nice :D
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
i don't wanna read through this thread (don't follow my example!!) but i just want to say at the latest TL invitation to blizzard HQ dustin browder personally wrote down on his notepad to address sc2 displaying the wrong apm - he had no idea. due to game speed settings your 'true' apm would be ~1.3x what sc2 says.
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when i started the beta, i was at about 150on average, trying to do as much as i could.
then it got a lot more comfortable
and went around 180 at 30+minute games, but faster at shorter games due to spam and pace
same sort of number between bw and sc2, except BW was closer to 320 to 360apm range for me for all game lengths because of this drive to do as much as possible.
now in sc2 and in a recent game (40minutes) doing 188apm feels like a maximum i can't pass
it stays high in longer game lenths because it seems that every action counted is necessary to progress the game
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Uh, you call that a line? In my field of biology, we call that data "garbage." APM is calculated completely differently from SC1 to 2, and will vary from person to person. Certain events that 1 person will do a lot will be or not be counted, resulting in wide variation.
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my apm in sc1 was like 190-200 and my apm in sc2 is like 90 ><
I macro with 1 SD instead of 1sd2sd3sd4sd5sd, so ez.
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On May 14 2010 05:17 pyr0ma5ta wrote:
Uh, you call that a line? In my field of biology, we call that data "garbage." APM is calculated completely differently from SC1 to 2, and will vary from person to person. Certain events that 1 person will do a lot will be or not be counted, resulting in wide variation.
u can take the garbage and redo the process with new data taken from the forum if u want, but i think that doesnt deserve time. Seems that the vast majority of users DOWN their APM from SC1 to SC2,. Why? some people say that u need less apm, others (like me) think that bwchart calculate in a different way the apm AND the speed changed from sc1. my theory its just an aproximation to the problem, its not an answer nor a serious study.
ps: I studied biology too, i have studies in maths, ecology and economy, ur being so arrogant!!
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On May 14 2010 05:58 No_eL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 05:17 pyr0ma5ta wrote:
Uh, you call that a line? In my field of biology, we call that data "garbage." APM is calculated completely differently from SC1 to 2, and will vary from person to person. Certain events that 1 person will do a lot will be or not be counted, resulting in wide variation. u can take the garbage and redo the process with new data taken from the forum if u want, but i think that doesnt deserve time. Seems that the vast majority of users DOWN their APM from SC1 to SC2,. Why? some people say that u need less apm, others (like me) think that bwchart calculate in a different way the apm AND the speed changed from sc1. my theory its just an aproximation to the problem, its not an answer nor a serious study. ps: I studied biology too, i have studies in maths, ecology and economy, ur being so arrogant!!
It depends on what you want to find out. If you want to do a census on if SC2 is a less APM intense game than BW then that's fine. But if you want to find what your displayed APM actually translates to with the same actions in BW then you're doing it wrong, and the answer has already been given.
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Guess you're not taking data anymore but I'll just add mine anyway:
SC: ~150
SC2: ~100
I was shocked when I first saw my APM in starcraft 2 as I expected it to be around 150. When I thought more about it, it seemed reasonable that it should be lower. All those clicks of selecting workers and sending them to the minerals etc. I'm not slower than I was before, it's just that I haven't managed to find things to do in sc2 that would require more clicks thought I am sure there are lots!
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80 in bw... 70 in sc2.
I guess with the new multiplier that means I'm actually getting faster.
The OP is garbage though, that data says nothing.
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![[image loading]](http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7228/apm.jpg)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Ok... I input all the data in this thread to a spreadsheet and added the trendline.
the r^2 is somewhat low, but it doesn't really matter for this data.
The key thing to note is my trendline slope is 1.36 which is very close to my calculated value of 1.4.
I think this is more evidence that apm is calculated by sc2 replays the same way as bw chart calculated apm.
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BW: 140-200
SC2: 80-150 (average ~100)
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WarCraft 3: 200-250 Apm
StarCraft 2: 130-160 Apm
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On May 15 2010 00:20 kevin349 wrote:Uploaded with ImageShack.us Ok... I input all the data in this thread to a spreadsheet and added the trendline. the r^2 is somewhat low, but it doesn't really matter for this data. The key thing to note is my trendline slope is 1.36 which is very close to my calculated value of 1.4. I think this is more evidence that apm is calculated by sc2 replays the same way as bw chart calculated apm.
interesting, nice work, but the associated error its still so high and the data source its not very accurate, buy yes, you have a point.
Maybe many problems around sc2 could be a direct result in the change of speed (low life of buildings and units, less micro options, fast battles, inhabilites for reaction, etc.)
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the r^2 is somewhat low, but it doesn't really matter for this data.
I don't understand why it doesn't. Isn't the r squared value the crux of the whole study? If the fit is only 20%, then aren't you saying that this trendline is more incorrect than correct?
I hate statistics...
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The error is easily accounted for alot of factors: people getting better, probably some false/inaccurate data, the fact that this isn't exactly sc1 ( mbs, 255 unit slection, auto-mine... all of this reduce quite a bit)
If i throw out the outliers i get about a .5 r^2 which is a bit better.. and the slope gets even closer to 1.4...
On May 15 2010 00:57 DikFore wrote:I don't understand why it doesn't. Isn't the r squared value the crux of the whole study? If the fit is only 20%, then aren't you saying that this trendline is more incorrect than correct? I hate statistics...
Yes and no... I say its not because were not really trying to predict anything. Like i said above, throwing out outliers, which is usually done, brings it up quite a bit....
But yeah.. I been up all night and haven't slept... :p
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edit: just read the post above me. *facepalm*
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The built in SC2 APM does not calculate APM in the same way as BWCharts. For any of these comparisons to be accurate you would need to use a 3rd party data analyzer which bases APM on the same set of user inputs as BWCharts did.
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SC1: 80-100
SC2: 40-60
dota: 70-90
i feel like i wasted apm in sc1 though it's kinda low. my rank is ~1200 gold league
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like apm matters, it doesnt, only matters in certain situations where a obstacle comes in your way and u need to multitask quickly at that speific time and place to deal with it, could have average of 50 all game, then have peaks of 200, during needed times.
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SC1 : 200-240 TvZ with 170-190 EAPM, 170~ in TvP/TvT with about 130EAPM
SC2: i struggle to break 70 usually 50-70 range 1600~ plat atm
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SC1: 260-300apm about 180-200 eapm
SC2: 85-95 apm
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Hi guys noob question... How do you check your APM in starcraft 2?
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just click in rep options... u can watch unit count, buildings, army, apm, etc...
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SC1: 240~310
SC2: 170~185
User was warned for this post
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On August 13 2011 17:13 StOry_Mx wrote:
SC1: 240~310
SC2: 170~185
Its been over a year since the last post in this thread, what the heck man!?
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1-160
2-140
I dont do spamming at all.
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is it me or is there increasing numbers of necro bumps these days ._.
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United States11637 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4572/formulaapm.gif)
![[image loading]](http://img196.imageshack.us/i/001yfvy.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://img517.imageshack.us/i/apm.jpg/)
